[Deck] U/R Delver

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Originally Posted by now

Has anyone tried a list with 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel over 4 Snapcaster Mage? One running it took second place at an SCG Super IQ, which isn’t saying much, but it’s a card that pressures most decks rather hard while they’re being beaten down by Goblin Guides and Monastery Swiftspears. (I’d rather run Goblin Guide than Young Pyromancer.)

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do you think SCM is a non-bo with Eidolon since you get hit twice for 2 when you cast him assuming you're flashing something back? What about Delver, Guide, Eidolon, SCM? young pyro just seems a bit slow to ramp up. plus, if the goal is to be more fast/aggressive, SCM is great for reusing bolts/chains to the face. I'd drop wastelands if playing GGuide & SCM of course. and daze, since SCM wants you to hit 3-4 mana.

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 dig through time

4 snapcaster mage
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 delver of secrets
4 goblin guide

4 force of will
2 spell pierce
1 pyroblast

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
2 price of progress

-lands (18)-
2 island
2 mountain
1 red fetch
5 blue fetch
4 scalding tarn
4 volcanic island

--
2 grafdigger's cage
1 surgical extraction
2 sulfuric vortex
2 smash to smithereens
2 flusterstorm
1 red elemental blast
1 pithing needle
4 lava spike


what should I change here?

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Originally Posted by disgustipated

do you think SCM is a non-bo with Eidolon since you get hit twice for 2 when you cast him assuming you're flashing something back? What about Delver, Guide, Eidolon, SCM? young pyro just seems a bit slow to ramp up. plus, if the goal is to be more fast/aggressive, SCM is great for reusing bolts/chains to the face. I'd drop wastelands if playing GGuide & SCM of course. and daze, since SCM wants you to hit 3-4 mana.

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 dig through time

4 snapcaster mage
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 delver of secrets
4 goblin guide

4 force of will
2 spell pierce
1 pyroblast

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
2 price of progress

-lands (18)-
2 island
2 mountain
1 red fetch
5 blue fetch
4 scalding tarn
4 volcanic island

--
2 grafdigger's cage
1 surgical extraction
2 sulfuric vortex
2 smash to smithereens
2 flusterstorm
1 red elemental blast
1 pithing needle
4 lava spike


what should I change here?

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The immediate thing that jumped out at me is the lack of dazes. I would run 4 dazes before any spell pierces. I know you want to ramp for SCM but I think 4 maybe too many since it's almost always a 3 drop and your deck is the most efficient in the early game. I used to play a lot of UR and the main problem, be it obvious ones, are against threats with toughness larger than 3 (goyf, tasigur), drawing the wrong part of your deck (permission and burn with no creatures), and threats that are easily disposed of. Young pyromancer solves some of that leaving behind a few dudes that can go on the offense or chump if need be.

Hi guys-

Just started getting into legacy a few months ago. Started on Burn, moved into UR Delver.

My list is below:

Land (16)
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Steam Vents
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wasteland
1x Wooded Foothills

Creature (12)
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer

Instant (20)
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt

Sorcery (12)
2x Chain Lightning
2x Forked Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder

I am working on getting the additional 3 Wastelands and 3 Volcanics. Is there a 'best list' for UR delver? Or even a basic jumping off list that I can look into and brew from there?

Also, any thoughts on adding TNN and cutting a DTT? A more resilient creature would help a few of my matchups.

Thanks for any help!

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Originally Posted by pateuglow

Hi guys-

Just started getting into legacy a few months ago. Started on Burn, moved into UR Delver.

My list is below:

Land (16)
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Steam Vents
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wasteland
1x Wooded Foothills

Creature (12)
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer

Instant (20)
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt

Sorcery (12)
2x Chain Lightning
2x Forked Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder

I am working on getting the additional 3 Wastelands and 3 Volcanics. Is there a 'best list' for UR delver? Or even a basic jumping off list that I can look into and brew from there?

Also, any thoughts on adding TNN and cutting a DTT? A more resilient creature would help a few of my matchups.

Thanks for any help!

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I would start here:

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?...ide=&strict=on

I would not go 4 DTT and most lists do not have TNN. Personally, I would also not recommend wasteland in the deck as colored mana is a premium especially if you're aggressively fetching basics the first few turns and the primary game plan isn't so much to mana denial your opponent as it is with RUG for example.

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Originally Posted by Sunday Funday

I would start here:

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?...ide=&strict=on

I would not go 4 DTT and most lists do not have TNN. Personally, I would also not recommend wasteland in the deck as colored mana is a premium especially if you're aggressively fetching basics the first few turns and the primary game plan isn't so much to mana denial your opponent as it is with RUG for example.

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Thanks for the lists - I will def go through them today. The list I run was one I found on MTG top 8 - something very basic to try until I figured out where I wanted to go with the deck.

Has anyone here been brewing with Day's Undoing in this deck? I suspect it's going to get banned in Modern, but it might not be too broken in Legacy. You can pretty much swap it into Bob Huang's old U/R Delver deck in place of the Treasure Cruises. My only change would be more bounce instead of burn.

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets

4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Day's Undoing

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Vapor Snag
1 Snapback

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

The idea, obviously, is to play as many cheap creatures, cantrips, and removal as fast as you can, and then refill your hand with Day's Undoing just like you would with the old Treasure Cruise. Yes, it's a symmetrical effect, but your opponent shouldn't be able to match your tempo.

Snapback into Undoing is just brutal. It also messes with everyone's threshold/delve.

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Originally Posted by keys

Has anyone here been brewing with Day's Undoing in this deck? I suspect it's going to get banned in Modern, but it might not be too broken in Legacy. You can pretty much swap it into Bob Huang's old U/R Delver deck in place of the Treasure Cruises. My only change would be more bounce instead of burn.

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets

4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Day's Undoing

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Vapor Snag
1 Snapback

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

The idea, obviously, is to play as many cheap creatures, cantrips, and removal as fast as you can, and then refill your hand with Day's Undoing just like you would with the old Treasure Cruise. Yes, it's a symmetrical effect, but your opponent shouldn't be able to match your tempo.

Snapback into Undoing is just brutal. It also messes with everyone's threshold/delve.

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Oh man, this looks sweet.

Three mana is huge, though.

I think Day's Undoing looks really strong for this deck, but it's not a straight Cruise replacement. You're not using it to draw into a bunch of gas pre-combat to pump a Swiftspear, and you likely aren't casting them on back to back turns. Echofish is right too, three mana is pretty huge for a deck that was cutting to 16-17 lands at one point. I would start with it as a 2-of, maybe 3. Wondering if it's worth playing some number of Lavamancers to eat those early fetches/Dazes that you don't really want to draw back into.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

I think Day's Undoing looks really strong for this deck, but it's not a straight Cruise replacement. You're not using it to draw into a bunch of gas pre-combat to pump a Swiftspear, and you likely aren't casting them on back to back turns. Echofish is right too, three mana is pretty huge for a deck that was cutting to 16-17 lands at one point. I would start with it as a 2-of, maybe 3. Wondering if it's worth playing some number of Lavamancers to eat those early fetches/Dazes that you don't really want to draw back into.

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I was thinking about running 3 Day's Undoing and 3 Vapor Snag - trying to pay a more tempo-oriented game. Thoughts?

I'm curious why you're going with Day's Undoing instead of DTT? I've been running 3 DTT and really liking it for finding silver bullets from the side board.

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Originally Posted by TooOld4Magic

I'm curious why you're going with Day's Undoing instead of DTT? I've been running 3 DTT and really liking it for finding silver bullets from the side board.

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I could see running dig, but I think Cruise showed everyone how bonkers this deck can be when it can just keep refilling its hand, and the whole "end the turn" clause isn't that bad considering the gameplan is usually burn/cantrip, swing, pass. The spells are mostly so redundant that raw card advantage seems to be more powerful than card selection in a list like this. Still, maybe a 2/2 split is correct? Undoing doesn't really play nice with Delve, but I don't think they'd step on each other's toes too bad. EoT Dig into burn, swing, Undoing? Seems alright.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

I could see running dig, but I think Cruise showed everyone how bonkers this deck can be when it can just keep refilling its hand, and the whole "end the turn" clause isn't that bad considering the gameplan is usually burn/cantrip, swing, pass. The spells are mostly so redundant that raw card advantage seems to be more powerful than card selection in a list like this. Still, maybe a 2/2 split is correct? Undoing doesn't really play nice with Delve, but I don't think they'd step on each other's toes too bad. EoT Dig into burn, swing, Undoing? Seems alright.

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I will be testing SOME configuration of this over the weekend in Worcester. I will let everyone know how it goes. I think Day's Undoing could be really good, as I won't have to worry about the delve restriction.

Tested out the 3 Days Undoing and 3 Vapor Snag

Day's Undoing felt really bad in this deck. I did play 3 rounds against Delver variants. Every time I cast Day's Undoing, I wish it had been DTT.

I loved Vapor Snag, and will likely run that more. But Day's Undoing was just awful in my games.

Just started getting into legacy a couple of months ago with my regular play testing group and I've started with ur delver as I've been playing that deck in modern for quite a while. Can I get some feedback on this deck idea post dtt banning?

Creatures

4 delver of secrets
4 monastery swiftspear
2 snapcaster mage
2 true-name nemesis

Spells

4 brainstorm
4 lightning bolt
4 force of will
4 daze
3 stifle
4 ponder
2 forked bolt
2 gitaxian probe
1 pyroblast
1 spell pierce
1 vapor snag

Land

2 island
3 volcanic island
1 underground sea
4 wasteland
4 scalding tarn
4 polluted delta

Sideboard

3 cabal therapy
2 flusterstorm
1 hydroblast
2 pyroblast
2 surgical extraction
1 smash to smithereens
2 blood moon
1 dismember
1 izzet staticaster

There's a couple of things I'm not sure about. Blood moons in the side? Second forked bolt main? Should stifle be something else?

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Originally Posted by and3h

Just started getting into legacy a couple of months ago with my regular play testing group and I've started with ur delver as I've been playing that deck in modern for quite a while. Can I get some feedback on this deck idea post dtt banning?

Creatures

4 delver of secrets
4 monastery swiftspear
2 snapcaster mage
2 true-name nemesis

Spells

4 brainstorm
4 lightning bolt
4 force of will
4 daze
3 stifle
4 ponder
2 forked bolt
2 gitaxian probe
1 pyroblast
1 spell pierce
1 vapor snag

Land

2 island
3 volcanic island
1 underground sea
4 wasteland
4 scalding tarn
4 polluted delta

Sideboard

3 cabal therapy
2 flusterstorm
1 hydroblast
2 pyroblast
2 surgical extraction
1 smash to smithereens
2 blood moon
1 dismember
1 izzet staticaster

There's a couple of things I'm not sure about. Blood moons in the side? Second forked bolt main? Should stifle be something else?

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I am thinking about going back to this deck as well. I played it a lot both before treasure cruise/dtt and during. I have a few questions about your list:

1.) How has the underground sea/cabal therapy plan been? Seems to be better with a young pyromancer shell. High amount of countermagic in board should be fine against combo.

2.) I like the 2 blood moons in the board, but I would consider adding null rod. Not sold on staticaster. Thoughts?

3.) I like 2 forked bolt main. I think i would like all 4 probe with swiftspear. Correct number of spell pierce and stifle, I am unsure of. Have you considered any chain lightning main deck?

I played a very similar list last night, went 1-3, but had game every time. I played RUG delver (0-2), BUG delver (1-2), RUG delver(1-2), and RB home brew (2-1). Almost all my matches went 40-50 min. I think the biggest thing I suffered from was difficulty dealing with resolved Tarmagoyfs and Gurmag anglers. So often TNN felt like a 3 mana wall because I was behind on the board. Swiftspear usually is bad late in the game after they've stuck a fatty. I tried Young Pyromancer instead last night and wouldn't take him out again, but it makes the deck more mid-rangey. However, DRS helped my opponents fix their mana and close out games when I couldn't find removal. I've only played about 12 total matches with the deck, but I just think the other delver decks have better creatures. I'm still undecided about BloodMoon. I think mainly because I haven't faced the matches where I thought it would shine, because I've been ending up in the losers bracket fairly consistently since switching from Burn to UR delver. Time to try out the counter-burn list from Japan: http://mtgkmc.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-305.html

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Originally Posted by DouthwrightShaman

I am thinking about going back to this deck as well. I played it a lot both before treasure cruise/dtt and during. I have a few questions about your list:

1.) How has the underground sea/cabal therapy plan been? Seems to be better with a young pyromancer shell. High amount of countermagic in board should be fine against combo.

2.) I like the 2 blood moons in the board, but I would consider adding null rod. Not sold on staticaster. Thoughts?

3.) I like 2 forked bolt main. I think i would like all 4 probe with swiftspear. Correct number of spell pierce and stifle, I am unsure of. Have you considered any chain lightning main deck?

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Hi and thanks for the reply. After playing with the deck a bit against some outmoded dtt decks, I've got a bit more of an idea about how the deck seems. So to answer your questions...

1) the singleton underground sea / cabal therapy plan has been really good against combo and miracles. Especially when I don't have to fetch for it game 1. Even with playing it game one, people would auto think it was a stock grixis delver deck.

2) linked in with number one, young pyromancer is much better with the cabal therapy plan. But I want to keep the swiftspears in, so not sure what I'm going to do to make the room for them.

3) blood moon have been pretty good out the board. Maybe something like price of progress would be better, but with shardless bug becoming one of the better benefactors now dtt has gone (imo) maybe blood moon is better. Think I'm going to have to test those differences

4) staticaster has been a bit of a bust so far. I was thinking it would be good in the matches where I face pyromancer or mentor, basically the spammy token makers. It hasn't been the worst there but it's also not the greatest. Null rod will deal with more problem cards, so I'll be making the switch there.

5) the forked bolts ha e been good, but not great. Think I might trim it to 1 copy instead. Stifle I've been really happy with, especially as it can work as wasteland 5-7. I think 3 is a good amount of them. I could certainly see upping that to 4 if the meta dictated it. Spell pierce has been ok. Not great but then is it ever going to be. Maybe I can do without the 9th counter (10 if you count pyroblast).

6) chain lightning is a card I hadn't thought about, but would work really well with swiftspear. I think I need to test that a bit.

So at the minute I'm looking at +4 young pyromancer, -1 forked bolt, -1 spell pierce, -2 creatures (either snapcaster or true-name) and I'd like to up the count to 4 probes but unsure what to cut. Maybe 1 daze and 1 pyroblast. Ideas are welcomed there.

Sorry a out the wall of text there....

Since the DTT ban, I've been working on new version of my old list, comments welcomed

Creatures - 12
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Delver
4 Young Pyromancer
2 True Name Nemesis

Sorcery - 7
1 Forked Bolt
2 Probe
4 Ponder

Instants - 23
1 Price of Progress
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Bolt
4 Stifle

Lands - 18
1 Mountain
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland

Thoughts----
I really like the Wasteland/Stifle package. Stifle has proven to be useful in my meta, especially against Miracles, Reanimator (Gbrand pay 7 draw 7), and can be your 5-8 Wasteland. I am considering dropping the Forked Bolt for a Vapor Snag, as it has been very good against RUG/BUG delver lists. The TNN seems risky at 3 cmc, but hitting it on t4-5 seems worthwhile.

Perhaps cutting TNN altogether in favor of Snapcaster Mage?

How has price of progress AND the stifle/wasteland package worked for you? When I tried it, I found that I was making my prices less powerful, so I cut them. But I know sometimes POP is a real blow out.