[Deck]BUx Reanimator

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Originally Posted by Fox

When piloting combo: if you're not winning, you're losing. Having this card in hand/drawing it does not help you win from a goldfish perspective. It is also just a plain dead card against combo (3 most represented archetypes from mtgtop8 in this category are Storm, SnT, and Reanimator). "Bad" cards can always be situationally amazing...but when they're bad, they're awful. You have to really know your local meta to mainboard cards like this and disproportionately get rewarded, because you're losing game 1 win %age when you do it in a general sense.

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Maybe maybe. But: I regard Reanimator not as a goldfish deck. "When piloting combo: if you're not winning, you're losing." > I don't want to misunderstand you here but an exaggeration would be: "Let us cut discard spells in ANT because they do nothing to for the combo." > Because I don't need discard spells against certain decks. > Then Duress is aweful. Sure. With eight main deck counterspells, I feel like one can "control" the game state quite a bit. I played only two Decays main (two in SB as well) and they help to interact not only on the stack but also disrupt the opponent on the ground. I feel like Deathrite/Chalice/Counterbalance to name a few are too dangerous to let them unchecked or to simply put all the trust in playing around/FoW/Daze.
Of all the decks in Legacy (most known) you just named the two where Decay might be worse than Thoughtseize or other common choices(certainly not worse than SnT against SnT decks). Although even against ANT it might get some utility when they play out their LEDs (which they should). And: There is still Brainstorm. (I know; not the best argument. Don't take it too serious.)
Randomly enought, I won 2-0 against ANT yesterday (player who visits the city, didn't know him) but that's pretty much irrelevant data. :tongue:

In the end, I was just wondering.

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Originally Posted by Fox

When piloting combo: if you're not winning, you're losing.

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"If you a'int first, you're last"

That there phrase is trademarked, not to be used without express written permission of Ricky Bobby, Inc.

The difference with discard is that there are almost no decks out there that throw away their hands and also have no reanimation targets (or inexplicably jam quad Leyline of Sanctity). Also a card like Thoughtseize can be turned against one-self, just as in ANT you will eventually come across the need to strip your own hand with Cabal Therapy to go Hellbent with IT. Mainboard Duress in reanimator is a bit more sketchy even though it keeps up the life total; you use this card and you're signing up for the possibility that it will cost you games. Cards like Izzet Charm and Collective Brutality are safer maindeck options, but cmc/Wasteland susceptibility becomes a concern.

Abrupt Decay in the main is a fine meta call, but that's based on your meta. But against an unknown opponent, Thoughtseize will do work more often. It's just less dead.
If you don't have any unknown opponents because it's a small store or you're telepathic, then the math gets all skewed.

An aside; in Reanimator, mana for mana, Izzet Charm does a whole lot more for us than Abrupt Decay. Abrupt Decay is good at what it does, and I'm not advocating it's removal, but examples of G1 Deathrite Shaman as arguments for Abrupt Decay in the main are better served by Izzet Charm.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

An aside; in Reanimator, mana for mana, Izzet Charm does a whole lot more for us than Abrupt Decay. Abrupt Decay is good at what it does, and I'm not advocating it's removal, but examples of G1 Deathrite Shaman as arguments for Abrupt Decay in the main are better served by Izzet Charm.

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I understand your points.

Actually, I'd say that it's the other way around in this example because while both being 1/2 oncolour + 1/2 splashcolour cc2 spells, I don't want to fight over my spot removal (No one would play the Charm without leaving mana open for Daze or whatever in a 'regular' scenario or any form of backup plan). Surely, Decay's isn't the best card but theoretically speaking it provides mb outs to cards that are extremly dangerous for Reanimator preboard but then again I am lacking any kind of experience since I've been playing it for the first time this year. (Played it several times last year/years to troll the local guys.) Also played the red version with Charms main and Blast SB > didn't like it.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I understand your points.

Actually, I'd say that it's the other way around in this example because while both being 1/2 oncolour + 1/2 splashcolour cc2 spells, I don't want to fight over my spot removal (No one would play the Charm without leaving mana open for Daze or whatever in a 'regular' scenario or any form of backup plan). Surely, Decay's isn't the best card but theoretically speaking it provides mb outs to cards that are extremly dangerous for Reanimator preboard but then again I am lacking any kind of experience since I've been playing it for the first time this year. (Played it several times last year/years to troll the local guys.) Also played the red version with Charms main and Blast SB > didn't like it.

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Izzet charm does more than this collective brutality, being an instant and all.

Playing around DRS is a skill that will elevate you as a Reanimator pilot. It's a thorny annoyance, but it's far from a game lock. Bolting the DRS isn't the only way Izzet Charm will beat DRS. Responding to removal with Exhume on the stack with draw & discard is a trick as old as the deck.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

Playing around DRS is a skill that will elevate you as a Reanimator pilot. It's a thorny annoyance, but it's far from a game lock. Bolting the DRS isn't the only way Izzet Charm will beat DRS. Responding to removal with Exhume on the stack with draw & discard is a trick as old as the deck.

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Yeah, I know similar interactions from playing TinFins with Entomb/Shallow Grave tricks and the Shaman.
Apart from that, I like it how you guys respond quite fast even when the thread is not the "loudest" on the source.
I might play it on Saturday, again, with Decays and see what's going to happen. My meta is pretty diverse with Delverdecks being the most common, then some midrange stuff, and usually only me playing a combo deck.
= certainly a meta call. I admit.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I might play it on Saturday

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Nice to know that, man. I appreciate.

It seems that the deck is viable even without Show and Tell. Am I completely wrong?

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Nice to know that, man. I appreciate.

It seems that the deck is viable even without Show and Tell. Am I completely wrong?

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It won't help you. :cool:

I'd definitely say so.

Show and Tell is there to go above the hate. It's an answer to Leyline of the Void, and very helpful in the Miracles matchup where they have so many decay targets and surgical as well.

Show and Tell is by no means a must have, myself and a few others have had success without it. Read back a few pages and I have posts breaking down my dislike for it in this deck. Currently it will probably perform better, without the delve fueled Omniscience decks everywhere, we're not being hit by collateral sideboard hate. Still, not a card I'm running.

Well D&T just received awesome new tech. With this tutoring for stuff like Containment Priest and Stonecloaker.... it seems that Reanimator is gonna face tough times ahead... Collective Brutality hasn't seemed to make any splash at all :(

I don't know, a 3 mana tutor means you'll see it coming, even in they do try and Vial in their silver bullet it's a slow solution to a fast deck.

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Originally Posted by RNGesus

Well D&T just received awesome new tech. With this tutoring for stuff like Containment Priest and Stonecloaker.... it seems that Reanimator is gonna face tough times ahead... Collective Brutality hasn't seemed to make any splash at all :(

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The card is slow, reanimator is fast. Even show and tell is faster.

Play more Massacre.

Reanimator has always had access to Dread of Night and Massacre. Just sideboard some hate if D&T is common.

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Originally Posted by RNGesus

Well D&T just received awesome new tech. With this tutoring for stuff like Containment Priest and Stonecloaker.... it seems that Reanimator is gonna face tough times ahead... Collective Brutality hasn't seemed to make any splash at all :(

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Too slow...

I'd be much more concerned about whatever R/W painter decks are called now, the recruiter playset just dropped by ~$2500. Turbo Moon should be much more concerning. Lotus Petals are back in. Aluren is the other thing to consider, but if they're going white...actually that's just strictly better than red. Either way, think about those before DnT; not a bad time to get Tundra. (obviously you can't tutor for a 1/3, but it won't stop people from trying the budget approach)

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Originally Posted by Fox

I'd be much more concerned about whatever R/W painter decks are called now, the recruiter playset just dropped by ~$2500. Turbo Moon should be much more concerning. Lotus Petals are back in. Aluren is the other thing to consider, but if they're going white...actually that's just strictly better than red. Either way, think about those before DnT; not a bad time to get Tundra. (obviously you can't tutor for a 1/3, but it won't stop people from trying the budget approach)

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Painter and Aluren are not even threats. I wouldn't worry about that... if I can chose between those and a DRS deck, I'd pick those decks in a heartbeat so I would say I'm feeling pretty good about the current meta shift.

On another note, I recently switched from 2 massacre to a 1/1 split with Darkblast. I'm trying some shenanigans with entomb and it hasn't worked as well as I had hoped it would so far. Anyone else tried it?
Also with Prelate and THC being things now, it feels like there's less and less x/1s in white decks. I've used darkblast to get rid of those but it just feels much slower and clunkier than it should be.

Painter can turn 2 you and if it's the blue red one they can do it after stopping you. I think its a mistake to ignore it since the new tutor was printed, and that made imperials drop in price, and im pretty sure they havent dropped to their lowest point yet. Aluren will be a lot better than it was, but DnT will give it lots of problems, so I don't think it will stick around as any kind of player in the top or middle tiers of the meta. I think reanimator is actually on its way out, to be honest.

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