4 Card Blind

Leyline of the Void struggles against self-replacement effects, which made me choose Legacy Weapon over Ulamog.

Was also expecting more White Sun's Zenith, it is one of the better fair win conditions.

2. Wrath of Pie: Squee, Goblin Nabob, Legacy Weapon, Liliana of the Veil, Maelstrom Pulse

1. Asthereal (TO): Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Broodmate Dragon, Shivan Dragon, Living Death LL
3. Tylert: Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Counterspell, Force of Negation WL - You have to Force t1 Liliana on the draw, which means Legacy Weapon eventually exiles Iona and I beat you down with a 3-mana 1/1.
4. alphastryk: Noxious Revival, Necromancy, Emrakul, the Eons Torn, Smallpox WW - Liliana does things, such as making you discard excess cards and having a relevant ult, so I should get to Legacy Weapon mana before you get to Emrakul mana.
5. Moosedog: Lion’s Eye Diamond, Auriok Salvagers, Walking Ballista , Surgical Extraction LL - I am horrible against turn 1 kills.
6. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards,From Under the Floorboards, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn WW - Pulse the Zombies away, then Legacy Weapon should be active before you get to 15 mana to hardcast Emrakul.
7. FTW: Assassin's Trophy, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria WL - Not sure on this one, but I should barely be able to deal with Iona on the draw thanks to Legacy Weapon, which unlocks the rest of my hand. Trophy on a land Token costs me when you are on the play.

6w = 18 points

NOTES ON THE SEASON

1. I found out I hadn't explained the Take Five mechanic very well. I edited the first post of the thread with explanation: we count one player's turn as one turn, so A1, B2, A3, B4, A5 and then B gets to deal damage and stuff.

2. I found out Deja Vu is kind of an easy turn one kill in a few different ways, so I decided to ban a few cards: Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond and all Storm cards.
I presume everybody is okay with this?
Also, if there's more I need to ban, let me know.

Really think `Leyline of the Void` was something we all should have considered more, but it worked out for me that we didn't.

EDIT - my Emrakul won't have haste via Necromancy, because I'm dumb, which means my combo doesn't work since I'll have to sacrifice it if I use Necromancy at instant speed.

alphastryk scoring for round 1:

1. Asthereal (TO): Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Broodmate Dragon, Shivan Dragon, Living Death
OTP: Discard Emrakul and Smallpox to make 2 lands, pass with Noxious Revival and Necromancy up to stop you. If you ever go for it I think I can disrupt enough to win, and if you don't I eventually hardcast Emrakul on turn 7ish. If you try to hardcast a dragon, I can smallpox and play the long Emrakul game, even vs Broodmate since it won't kill fast enough I can't Smallpox again 2 turns after discarding Emrakul. Or I can just Necromancy a different Dragon to block while I wait for Emrakul. - W
OTD: If you try to turn 1 dragons me, I can Noxious Revival one of them to buy a turn (I think Karrthus) then Smallpox another on my turn 1 (assuming you sacrifice the broodmate token). That should leave you with broodmate and Shivan in play, which kill me in 2 hits via firebreathing. Assuming I get bad luck via shuffled Emrakul cards (AKA I draw Noxious and Emrakul as the first 2 cards), I can't do anything before I'm killed by Dragons. - L

3-3

2. Wrath of Pie: Squee, Goblin Nabob, Legacy Weapon, Liliana of the Veil, Maelstrom Pulse
OTP: If I try to grind it out with Smallpox, I can't defeat the value of Squee and Legacy Weapon, and you can Deploy the Weapon faster than I can deploy Emrakul if we play the waiting game. - L
OTD: I don't see how I can ever defeat Liliana, and Legacy Weapon comes online way before Emrakul. L

0-6

3. Tylert: Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Counterspell, Force of Negation
OTP: If I wait after discarding Smallpox and Emrakul to make 2 lands, I've got 2 pieces of graveyard interaction to fight through the one Counterspell you're able to leave up . That means you can't make Iona, and I win any waiting game by eventually hard casting Emrakul. W
OTD: You can turn 1 Iona with protection against my Noxious Revival, no matter when I try to use it, then I can't cast anything relevant until well after Iona kills me. L

3-3

4. alphastryk: Noxious Revival, Necromancy, Emrakul, the Eons Torn, Smallpox
N/A, this is me

5. Moosedog: Lion’s Eye Diamond, Auriok Salvagers, Walking Ballista , Surgical Extraction
OTP: If I lead by discarding Necromancy to make a land, I can hold of Noxious Revival to break up your combo at any point for a turn, which lets me kill your guy with Smallpox. If you try to play a fair creature deck and hold up Surgical, I don't think I can beat that, beyond maybe Smallpoxing away one of your guys to bring back with Necromancy, but you're unlikely to let that scenario happen. L
OTD: If you go for the combo turn 1, I can use Noxious Revival to break it up for a turn, then smallpox away your guy, which also makes you discard your Surgical, so I can eventually kill you with Emrakul. If you wait and hold up Surgical, it turns out similar to the OTP scenario. L

0-6

6. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards,From Under the Floorboards, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
OTP: I don't seem to have any meaningful way to defeat your Zombies before I die, and even if I you long-game Emrakul just as well as I do. L
OTD: I don't seem to have any meaningful way to defeat your 5 Zombies, and you long-game Emrakul just as well as I do. L

0-6

7. FTW: Assassin's Trophy, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria
OTP: I Discard Emrakul and Smallpox to make 2 lands that I'm leaving up Necromancy and Noxious Revival to stop your Iona combo. I don't think I can defeat Oko though. L
OTD: I can break up an attempt to Unburial Rites turn 1 via Noxious Revival, so your best bet it to T1 Oko, which I can't really beat. L

0-6

Total: 6 points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

I think there's a few discrepancies here with what other people had that we need to resolve.

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I misunderstood your deck. Edited results (again).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

Really think `Leyline of the Void` was something we all should have considered more, but it worked out for me that we didn't.

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Words of wisdom. But I had a leyline of the void deck and in this meta it would have scored less than my deck :)

Quote:

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3. Tylert: Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Counterspell, Force of Negation
OTP: If I try for turn 1 Emrakul, You have the Force of Negation for Necromancy. If I wait, I've got 2 pieces of graveyard interaction to fight through your counterspells after discarding Smallpox and Emrakul to make 2 lands. That means you have to slow down to keep up both counterspells,b ut I think you're able to do that before I can do anything meaningful to grind you out with smallpox or cast Emrakul. L
OTD: You can turn 1 Iona with protection agains my Noxious Revival, no matter when I try to use it, then I can't cast anything relevant until after Iona kills me. L

0-6

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Here is the optimal line for you OTP:

You discard emrakul and smallpox to have necromancy up so i can't iona.
Unfortunately for you, I can discard Inoa, discard rites and discard force of negation. I try to rites iona, you try to necro her, I counter spell. Iona comes into play naming black and you can't do anything anymore. I win.

So it's indeed 0-6

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Words of wisdom. But I had a leyline of the void deck and in this meta it would have scored less than my deck :)



Here is the optimal line for you OTP:

You discard emrakul and smallpox to have necromancy up so i can't iona.
Unfortunately for you, I can discard Inoa, discard rites and discard force of negation. I try to rites iona, you try to necro her, I counter spell. Iona comes into play naming black and you can't do anything anymore. I win.

So it's indeed 0-6

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Actually, as I revisit this I think in this specific case, I've also got Noxious Revival up to have 2 ways to take Iona out of your yard. I'll always Noxious Revival first because I'd like to have Necromancy to win with, and I think you have to counter whichever answer I lead on, then I'll use the second one to stop you. You actually can't keep up 2 counterspells like I was thinking since you can't generate any more mana, and even if Iona ends up on top of your library, you can't get to enough mana to cast her either. Any waiting game I can eventually cast Emrakul that can't be interacted with after 6 turns or so. So unless I missed something, I win this one? Updated my post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

Actually, as I revisit this I think in this specific case, I've also got Noxious Revival up to have 2 ways to take Iona out of your yard. I'll always Noxious Revival first because I'd like to have Necromancy to win with, and I think you have to counter whichever answer I lead on, then I'll use the second one to stop you. You actually can't keep up 2 counterspells like I was thinking since you can't generate any more mana, and even if Iona ends up on top of your library, you can't get to enough mana to cast her either. Any waiting game I can eventually cast Emrakul that can't be interacted with after 6 turns or so. So unless I missed something, I win this one? Updated my post.

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Ah Yeah noxious revival can be seen as a piece of hate :)
SO OTP, I win because i can Iona turn 1 with counterspell backup to counter noxious revival.
OTD You can go for your combo on turn 1 if i Force necromancy, emrakul will shuffle everything back into your deck and you still have noxious revival to counter my combo on my turn, so you win this one.
3-3. do we agree?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Ah Yeah noxious revival can be seen as a piece of hate :)
SO OTP, I win because i can Iona turn 1 with counterspell backup to counter noxious revival.
OTD you have indeed two pièces of hate, but I can just discard iona and rites and wait. I keep counterspell and force up so you cannot try to combo. IT should be a draw.
So 4-1 for me?

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If you just wait with 2 counterspells up, I discard Emrakul every turn, redrawing it until I can hardcast it which you can't answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

If you just wait with 2 counterspells up, I discard Emrakul every turn, redrawing it until I can hardcast it which you can't answer.

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I reviewed it and you can win faster i guess :)
so 3-3

Well, my matches would have gone a lot better with the Thought-Knot Seer I had wanted to submit, didn't think through the replacement Oko well. Probably should have been Mesmeric Fiend or something to exile those engine cards, or Oko + FoN.

7. FTW: Assassin's Trophy, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria

1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I Iona for Black. If you cast Shivan, I Trophy it. OTD you turn 1 me. WL 3-3

2. Wrath of Pie: OTP I Iona for Black. You make some land tokens. I play Oko, make Food, and attack for 7. You draw Legacy Weapon but don't have enough to play and activate at once, and I could Elk it, so you make lands and pass. I Elk the Food, attack for 10, and Trophy a land token. Now either attacker will kill you and Legacy Weapon is too slow. OTD I think Legacy Weapon is still too slow because I could Elk it, but you should win with T1 Liliana +1. That constrains me on resources. WL 3-3

3. Tylert: Yep, this is the better version of my deck. TKS would have been miles better. You can Iona me off one color and Force the other threat. LL 0-6

4. alphastryk: OTP I discard Rites and Iona to make 2 lands, cast Turn 1 Oko, and +2 for Food. You can make T1 Emrakul, but it does not have haste... so I don't see how that can hurt me. If you ever pass the turn with Emrakul in play, Oko can Elk it. You have to hold up Noxious to stop Unburial Rites. If you ever discard it to make a land, I make Iona for Black. Meanwhile I go on Elk beatdown, make more food stuffs, and can hold up Trophy for Necromancy or a land token. If you try to grind me out with Smallpox loops, hasty Elks get in damage before they die and you lose tempo replacing your lands. If you race to hardcast Emrakul you need to make 9 land drops (I can Trophy one), so Oko should be able to race you first.
OTD you discard Smallpox and Emrakul to make 2 lands, reshuffling. I play Turn 1 Oko, +2 for Food. Again I don't see how you beat Oko.
WW 6-0

5. Moosedog: OTP I discard Rites and Iona. I Unburial Iona, forcing you to Surgical it or I name White and you lose. On your turn you discard LED and Ballista to make 2 lands. Because you used Surgical, you don't have enough mana to both cast Salvagers and activate the same turn, so if you ever cast it I can Trophy it first. Meanwhile I play Oko and make Elks. OTD you turn 1 me. WL 3-3

6. H: OTP Iona for Black should win this easily. OTD you can make 5 zombies on turn 1? I Iona for Black so you can't do it again. Iona plays defense, I can Trophy a token, and play Oko and make Food and Elks. WW 6-0


21 points (7 wins)

I don't see how alphastryk wins some of his matches. It looks like he's assuming Emrakul can attack immediately?


Edit: Forgot Moosedog can't 1-shot me if Surgical gets used. Oko was less bad than I thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

...
I don't see how alphastryk wins some of his matches. It looks like he's assuming Emrakul can attack immediately?

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Oh man I totally missed that after I made the last minute swap from Shallow Grave to have Necromancy also be hate, which actually made my deck not work instead :frown:. Reworking my matches now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

Oh man I totally missed that after I made the last minute swap from Shallow Grave to have Necromancy also be hate, which actually made my deck not work instead :frown:. Reworking my matches now.

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Ah.. that makes a lot more sense. So you had Shallow Grave to annihilate boards, and otherwise you ramp to hardcast Emrakul. Now I understand what your deck was supposed to do!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Ah.. that makes a lot more sense. So you had Shallow Grave to annihilate boards, and otherwise you ramp to hardcast Emrakul. Now I understand what your deck was supposed to do!

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Yeah, I definitely misbuilt my deck badly. I've updated my post with my measly 6 points now lol

Probably should have just been Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Shallow Grave, Noxious Revival, Innocent Blood or something

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Well, my matches would have gone a lot better with the Thought-Knot Seer I had wanted to submit, didn't think through the replacement Oko well. Probably should have been Mesmeric Fiend or something to exile those engine cards, or Oko + FoN.

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Meddling Mage was a consideration for me for the fourth card slot, although I probably should have just played White Sun's Zenith myself instead of Maelstrom Pulse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Asthereal's scores for round 1:

1. Asthereal (TO): Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Broodmate Dragon, Shivan Dragon, Living Death
5. Moosedog: Lion’s Eye Diamond, Auriok Salvagers, Walking Ballista, Surgical Extraction
Auriok Salvagers, neat! Bit slow though. OTP I make dragons. You Extract Karrth, leaving me with a T3 kill. Which is slow. T1 you discard Ballista and Diamond for Turfs, cast Auriok. I attack for 19 with Broodmate, token and Firebreathing Shiv. You make eternal Turfs, but they're tapped, so I get to attack for the win next turn. OTD you have a turn more, so you get to blow up the world and everything with eternal Ballista. 3-3

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I think you lose this.

Auriok doesn't make eternal Turfs. It's a 1-shot kill.
Auriok Salvagers + Lion's Eye Diamond makes infinite white mana (by casting LED instead of making Turf), then he brings back Walking Ballista @ X=99999.

OTP he has a T1 kill.
Discard LED + Ballista + Surgical: Make 3 Turfs. Tap for WWWWWW. Cast Auriok. Recur LED.
Cast LED & crack for WWW. Recur LED etc...

OTD using Surgical on Karrthus slows him down 1 turn (1 less Turf, so not enough mana to recur LED after casting Auriok).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

NOTES ON THE SEASON

1. I found out I hadn't explained the Take Five mechanic very well. I edited the first post of the thread with explanation: we count one player's turn as one turn, so A1, B2, A3, B4, A5 and then B gets to deal damage and stuff.

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You forgot B5. Luckily we are playing Legacy and not Vintage, otherwise we would be dealing with Time Vault/Voltaic Servant warping the format. It really should just be first 10 turns though, otherwise Chronatog draws the game at a minimum every time barring removal/disruption because one player never takes 5 turns unless they can somehow win.

Quote:

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2. I found out Deja Vu is kind of an easy turn one kill in a few different ways, so I decided to ban a few cards: Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond and all Storm cards.
I presume everybody is okay with this?
Also, if there's more I need to ban, let me know.

---

Might have to look at Rite of Flame, although storm looks less good than you think if you ban the rituals.

1. Asthereal (TO): Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Broodmate Dragon, Shivan Dragon, Living Death
OTP: I combo T1.
OTD: I surgical Jund, stopping haste. Then I play salvagers. You’re T2 you swing for 13 putting me to 5. Then I untap and combo out with salvagers. (Update) Realize you can pump the shivan for the remaining 5 life so you will get me before I get a T2.
WL.

2. Wrath of Pie: Squee, Goblin Nabob, Legacy Weapon, Liliana of the Veil, Maelstrom Pulse
I combo out on play and draw. WW

3.Tylert: Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Counterspell, Force of Negation
OTP: You can force a non creature. so I will get there, thanks for pointing out.
OTD: you can counterspell surgical.
WL

4. alphastryk: Noxious Revival, Necromancy, Emrakul, the Eons Torn, Smallpox
There were a lot of lines to think through but I believe I get this either way. WW

5. Moosedog: Lion’s Eye Diamond, Auriok Salvagers, Walking Ballista , Surgical Extraction
ME

6. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, From Under the Floorboards,From Under the Floorboards, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
I combo out on play and draw. WW

7. FTW: Assassin's Trophy, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria
Yea, I agree with your take. I thought I’d get both, but we split. WL

I’m also in the almost played leyline camp, but I have to admit I did not realize the lands stayed in play when I submitted so considered surgical better. Even though now typing this out realizing it didn’t make any sense and leyline just would have been better. Ha. This was a fun round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Why did so few of you use grave hate? I was sure at least half the decks would contain Leyline of the Void and wreck me. :laugh:

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I'm surprised no one played Magus of the Moon.

He trolls the Turf mechanic and wins just about every matchup OTP (because FoW and Channex are banned). He would beat many of these decks OTD too. I knew I had to play a deck that could stop degenerate stuff like that at least OTP, e.g. Iona or Meddling Mage or TKS.

Edit: Aggro.dec
Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Magus of the Moon, Leyline of the Void = 6-0 for days

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I'm surprised no one played Magus of the Moon.

He trolls the Turf mechanic and wins just about every matchup OTP (because FoW and Channex are banned). He would beat many of these decks OTD too. I knew I had to play a deck that could stop degenerate stuff like that at least OTP, e.g. Iona or Meddling Mage or TKS.

Edit: Aggro.dec
Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Magus of the Moon, Leyline of the Void = 6-0 for days

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Brilliant :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moosedog

3.Tylert: Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Counterspell, Force of Negation
OTP: You can force salvagers.
OTD: you can counterspell surgical.
LL

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Force can only counter non creature spells.
So you can play salvager on turn one and do your combo to have an infinite ballista and kill me on turn 2 (Because iona can't nalme colorless and forcing one LED buys me a turn only... I need 3).