Miracle Control

Played this list at a local to a 4-0-1 finish:

3 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island

3 Counterbalance
4 Top
4 Force
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 STP
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Entreat the Angels
1 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//Board

2 Wear/Tear
1 Canonist
1 Moat
3 REB
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Round 1: Pox

Usually a really grindy matchup, but I get some good plays in and early counters. I get to Entreat at the end of Turn 4 and win. Game 2 is very much the same way.

2-0

Round 2: Dredge

I die Game 1 when he goes off on Turn 2. Oops.

Game 2, I mull into action, but not actual grave hate. I have the mass removal and Top. I keep and sweep his board and make him start building back up. By that time, I hit Rest in Peace then clean up with Entreat.

Game 3, i keep a 6 with 2 land, Cage, RIP, Terminus, Brainstorm. Seems fine! Winner winner.

2-1

Round 3: Imperial Painter

It's back and forth. He sets up Bridge but I'm still committed to Entreating for 3 since he's at 10. He manages to get rid of two of my Jaces, and then we start slow grinding. I have no real way outside of Jace to stop him, since I'm locked out with double Bridge by this point. I land Jace #3, and start ticking up to 13. He lands Koth and starts ticking up. I calculate that even with one card in hand, even if I Jace ultimate, Koth's ultimate still can deal 12 to me before he draws blank and loses - and I'm at 11. He grinds me into a Ponder into my singleton Absent and I put Koth as the last card.

Game 2, I keep a hand with Fetch, Basic, Basic, Top, Swords, and junk. Good enough. He uses Revoker, I use STP. Snapcaster plows a Painter, and I drop Needle on Grindstone. He Blood Moons too late, and I plop Jace. He hits Pyro, but I've already set up a lethal Entreat.

Round 4 - Can't remember

Round 5 - Draw with RUG Delver

Draw to prize split, but I lose in 2 in the fun games since he has the everything and I brick many, many times. Oh well.

-Matt

For your Round 2, it seems like you played against Dredge, not Affinity. Nice result, nonetheless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenix13

For your Round 2, it seems like you played against Dredge, not Affinity. Nice result, nonetheless.

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I was like "RiP and Cage? Wow. I really don't know this deck at all."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

3 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island

3 Counterbalance
4 Top
4 Force
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 STP
1 Ponder
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Entreat the Angels
1 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

---

Your deck is missing 3 cards. Can you complete it please?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Your deck is missing 3 cards. Can you complete it please?

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It's probably 61 cards, as he's missing 4 brainstorms.

I typed this while I was REALLY tired. Will fix :P

I used to play this deck about 8 months ago more regularly, but when I started running out of time to practice, I just switched back to Rock to put up better results just walking into a random tournament. I really like how this build ran, and I'll be tweaking from there. Unexpectedly Absent pulled it's weight, and basically replaced EE from my old E. Tutor in the maindeck build. It's also Snapcasterable, so that's okay. Maybe it'll get cut long term, but in my really weird meta with Nether Voids, Koths, and such, I'll leave it for now.

-Matt

it was only 4 rounds! thats why you can't remember the round.

i'm just typing up my list in the BUG thread and we each only lost to the RUG player. the deck is good…if it nuts you (double daze on the play with an early clock) its hard to beat.

I like sdematt's mini-report, allow me to beat his conciseness.

4 flooded strand
2 scalding tarn
2 arid mesa
1 polluted delta
2 tundra
1 mystic gate
2 volcanic island
3 plains
5 island
1 karakas

3 Counterbalance
4 Top
4 Force
1 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
3 StP
1 Pyroblast
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm

Round 1: Esper stoneblade
Usually a grindy MU, won anyway.
2-0

Round 2: WUR delver
I keep trading 1-1 and 2-1. He ran out of counter, I started playing bomb, won anyway. He's more patient than the usual Delver players.
2-0

Round 3: Shardless BUG
Back and forth games, at one point his vision ran into CB flip for zero, another game blind flip broke his back.
2-0

Round 4: Jund
Too many threats too fast. SB game even if I traded well, still had to worry about PFire and Liliana did ultimate on me. Prepared for possible Choke but did not matter.
0-2

Round 5: Merfolk
Draw.

As it turned out 3-1-1 was no good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by warfordium

it was only 4 rounds! thats why you can't remember the round.

i'm just typing up my list in the BUG thread and we each only lost to the RUG player. the deck is good…if it nuts you (double daze on the play with an early clock) its hard to beat.

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That's why I didn't remember it. Only one Cuba Libre at the pub, but the five at home did me in.


The basic mountain really fucked me even against RUG Delver since I was land light and it kept me from casting Counterbalance for...three turns? Sample size is small, and I understand WHY one plays it, but I still wasn't excited to ever open with it in Game 1's.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Unexpectedly Absent pulled it's weight, and basically replaced EE from my old E. Tutor in the maindeck build. It's also Snapcasterable, so that's okay. Maybe it'll get cut long term, but in my really weird meta with Nether Voids, Koths, and such, I'll leave it for now.

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I've been curious about Unexpectedly Absent, how did it perform do you think? Most likely I'd have to cut Venser for it, and I definitely have a love affair with Venser...

And twndowmn, what was your SB?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I've been curious about Unexpectedly Absent, how did it perform do you think? Most likely I'd have to cut Venser for it, and I definitely have a love affair with Venser...

And twndowmn, what was your SB?

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2 mana sometimes better than 4 mana. UA can also be used to Submerge something so it's not just back in their hand. Also Snapcasterable, but Venser is repeatable with Karakas. I also don't mind having another 2 drop for Counterbalance.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I've been curious about Unexpectedly Absent, how did it perform do you think? Most likely I'd have to cut Venser for it, and I definitely have a love affair with Venser...

And twndowmn, what was your SB?

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I'm at work. Based on my memory, it's
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 EE
1 Pyroblast
1 Sphere of Law
3 RiP
1 Pithing Needle
1 Venser
1 Node
1 EtA

Come to think of it, Jund actually killed my Canonist asap. I guess he really wanted to cascade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

2 mana sometimes better than 4 mana. UA can also be used to Submerge something so it's not just back in their hand. Also Snapcasterable, but Venser is repeatable with Karakas. I also don't mind having another 2 drop for Counterbalance.

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Ok, I suppose I might try it out sometime. The :w::w: seems a bit annoying. Be sure to share if you have any more experiences with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twndomn

2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 EE
1 Pyroblast
1 Sphere of Law
3 RiP
1 Pithing Needle
1 Venser
1 Node
1 EtA

Come to think of it, Jund actually killed my Canonist asap. I guess he really wanted to cascade.

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I would probably try something like this. Even with the Snapcaster/RIP nonbo, I think I'd rather have more Flash creatures to pressure Liliana instead of Canonists.

-4 Force, -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Pyroblast
+3 RiP, +2 EE, +1 Sphere of Law, +1 Venser, +1 EtA

Out of curiosity, why Sphere of Law over something like Leyline of Sanctity?

Is it because of Goblins, etc are "en masse" in your meta or what.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzra

Ok, I suppose I might try it out sometime. The :w::w: seems a bit annoying. Be sure to share if you have any more experiences with it.



I would probably try something like this. Even with the Snapcaster/RIP nonbo, I think I'd rather have more Flash creatures to pressure Liliana instead of Canonists.

-4 Force, -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Pyroblast
+3 RiP, +2 EE, +1 Sphere of Law, +1 Venser, +1 EtA

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I'm usually fetching Blue, then white, then blue, then white again if I can, in some permutation. Island, Plains, Island, Tundra is my usual sequence, so I can do it on Turn 4. The deck doesn't like to see Liliana, and many people have been switching to BUG and Jund and running many of them. I love playing her, but not against her :P I just want to say I played control....and I liked it.



-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzra

Ok, I suppose I might try it out sometime. The :w::w: seems a bit annoying. Be sure to share if you have any more experiences with it.
...

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I tried it in the past and could never reliably have WW when I needed to cast it.

I'm on an EE and a Wear / Tear main at the moment and that seems to handle most things.

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12676&iddeck=92958

4th in a 71 player tournament, Miracles list:


Creatures [2]
2 Vendilion Clique

Instants [19]
2 Counterspell
2 Unexpectedly Absent
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [6]
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus

Enchantments [3]
3 Counterbalance

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [4]
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [23]
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island


BOARD
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Swan Song

THAT many Swan Song seems interesting, I'm just wondering if this person was expecting infinite Sneak and Show, or did face it and just crushed it. I'm also wondering if running only 2 Blasts is worth the splash.

Other people's thoughts? 2 Absent is the main is the main difference with no Snapcaster.

-Matt

I just have to share this story I just had while testing for GP Paris. It was against TA - a MU where we are fuckingly favored, so it's pretty hard to lose at all. Well, he did manage to get me in game one due to three consecutive Hymns - shit happens. In game 2 I get out a Top, and he needles it, I spin it - cause I got no removal for the Needle in my deck. Soon after that he deploys a second Needle, right before I am able to get down a REB-protected Jace, and he names Jace. Fair enough, I keep playing lands until a point where I have 2 Jace and 1 Top in my hand - he plays Hymn, followed by Liliana, ticking up. So I am hellbent and keep drawing lands or blanks until Lilly is at 6 counters, then I drop Snapcaster. He deploys a creature, followed by Lilly - I Snapcaster - Swords his creature and ambush viper his Lilly, in his turn he removes 2 counters to kill Snapcaster and passes the turn. At the end of his turnI flash in Vendilion Clique to kill his Liliana and finish him off, soon thereafter.

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

Greetings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I just have to share this story I just had while testing for GP Paris. It was against TA - a MU where we are fuckingly favored, so it's pretty hard to lose at all. Well, he did manage to get me in game one due to three consecutive Hymns - shit happens. In game 2 I get out a Top, and he needles it, I spin it - cause I got no removal for the Needle in my deck. Soon after that he deploys a second Needle, right before I am able to get down a REB-protected Jace, and he names Jace. Fair enough, I keep playing lands until a point where I have 2 Jace and 1 Top in my hand - he plays Hymn, followed by Liliana, ticking up. So I am hellbent and keep drawing lands or blanks until Lilly is at 6 counters, then I drop Snapcaster. He deploys a creature, followed by Lilly - I Snapcaster - Swords his creature and ambush viper his Lilly, in his turn he removes 2 counters to kill Snapcaster and passes the turn. At the end of his turnI flash in Vendilion Clique to kill his Liliana and finish him off, soon thereafter.

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

Greetings

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That also happened at my last daily, except that i killed him with some Angels. 2 Needles, 1 Krosan Grip and some Lilis Main or SB is a stock list. That's why i like Explosives in the SB, because it also handles a resolved Sylvan Library.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I just have to share this story I just had while testing for GP Paris. It was against TA - a MU where we are fuckingly favored, so it's pretty hard to lose at all. Well, he did manage to get me in game one due to three consecutive Hymns - shit happens. In game 2 I get out a Top, and he needles it, I spin it - cause I got no removal for the Needle in my deck. Soon after that he deploys a second Needle, right before I am able to get down a REB-protected Jace, and he names Jace. Fair enough, I keep playing lands until a point where I have 2 Jace and 1 Top in my hand - he plays Hymn, followed by Liliana, ticking up. So I am hellbent and keep drawing lands or blanks until Lilly is at 6 counters, then I drop Snapcaster. He deploys a creature, followed by Lilly - I Snapcaster - Swords his creature and ambush viper his Lilly, in his turn he removes 2 counters to kill Snapcaster and passes the turn. At the end of his turnI flash in Vendilion Clique to kill his Liliana and finish him off, soon thereafter.

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

Greetings

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Jace and Top are just 2 out of many decent targets, such as:
Lili, Vial, Grindstone, equipment, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Deed, Mangara, all Planeswalkers, some Dredge cards, Lavamancer, Wasteland (is a thing against anything Loamish), the list goes on.

I actually used to run needles in my Miracles SB and they did come in quite frequently.

I am very well aware of that Needle can do - thank you very much for pointing out the obvious.

But tell me - which MUs does Team America need to improve by playing Needle? Correct, Miracles. Additionally he told me they were for Miracles and I know how to play TA - and if I wanna hate out Miracles I start with 3 Needles, followed by either more Lillys or Thoughtseizes and Cliques.

Greetings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

Greetings

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You're overly thinking, it's called splash damage. People now SB:
Golgari Charm: intended to kill TNN, but it's additional enchantment hate, becomes useful against Miracle for no reasons.
Needle: intended to stop Sneak Attack, Stoneforge (popular due to TNN), and Aether Vial... etc.
Liliana: intended to kill TNN, now more popular because Jund Depths (the land deck) runs it.

Re-read what I wrote.

"Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate?"

Greetings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles?

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This ain't Strasburg, Phil. This is a sellers market. Needle is fucking dead as... dead. Choke, it's coming back in a big fucking way.

Props if you got the reference. You're probably too young though.

Hmm if you'd said "Ghent" instead of "Amsterdam" I would have been under the impression that I got the reference - you sure you didn't wanna type "Ghent"?

Greetings

EDIT:Changing "Amsterdam" to "Strasbourg" isn't gonna help :D
EDITEDIT: Ain't it two references? But anyways - let's continue this somewhere else. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

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If this was on MODO, chalk it up to the ridiculously warped metagame:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy

It's been like this for a very long time. I wish there was a history, to see whether Miracles was the top MODO deck before UWR replaced RUG, one of the harder matchups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I just have to share this story I just had while testing for GP Paris. It was against TA - a MU where we are fuckingly favored, so it's pretty hard to lose at all. Well, he did manage to get me in game one due to three consecutive Hymns - shit happens. In game 2 I get out a Top, and he needles it, I spin it - cause I got no removal for the Needle in my deck. Soon after that he deploys a second Needle, right before I am able to get down a REB-protected Jace, and he names Jace. Fair enough, I keep playing lands until a point where I have 2 Jace and 1 Top in my hand - he plays Hymn, followed by Liliana, ticking up. So I am hellbent and keep drawing lands or blanks until Lilly is at 6 counters, then I drop Snapcaster. He deploys a creature, followed by Lilly - I Snapcaster - Swords his creature and ambush viper his Lilly, in his turn he removes 2 counters to kill Snapcaster and passes the turn. At the end of his turnI flash in Vendilion Clique to kill his Liliana and finish him off, soon thereafter.

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

Greetings

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Welcome to how I clinched the games against Joe at SCG Seattle. You guys REALLY don't like to see hand disruption, Liliana, and Pithing Needle :P

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I mean what the fuck? What's wrong with those people hating Miracle like that? 3 Needles? Additional Lilianas in the SB? So like everybody is hating Miracles now? Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate? If people continue to throw Pithing Needles at me I might have to rethink some of my well proven strategies...

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Welcome to my world... One of the stronger players in my meta switched to 12-Post a couple months ago. I'm pretty sure he's maindecking three Needles. Rumor has it that another pretty good player is going to be bringing 12-Post next week also. It might be time to dust off ye ole storm combo.

In all seriousness though, I think Needle effects are just very well positioned right now and one of the reasons why Death and Taxes is such a strong deck. It hits a lot of relevant players right now between us, Sneak Attack, and the more relevant half of the TNN/SFM combo. Of course, if you are a strong player in your local meta, it's entirely possible that the meta is simply adjusting to beat you.

I stopped playing the deck since Friday on Modo, because i was afraid of a SDT ban^^ yeah stupid i know, but who the hell knows what Wotc has in mind.
I did some 2mans, 8mans with Jund where i replaced BBE with Xenagos and some EE in the main, i cutted Bolt for them, to have a better Miracle Matchup.

The insight i got: Jund is really good against us if they play more walkers and some answers against Entreat. Luckily they don't play such lists ^^

@UE

I'm a big fan of that card because, but you have to adapt your manabase somehow to support it. Double W is not that easy, and it felt sometimes clunky.

@ UWR being best deck on Modo
I really like that because if you build a good list, there is no tempo deck where we are not favored. I really hope that i play against Tempo all day long at the GP.

Honestly I would play Runed Halo before unexpectedly absent, but maybe that's just me. I can't say I love either of them... I do notice that a lot of times I'm not super excited about the last few cards I choose for miracles, in general.

I'm always more conviced that this deck should go UWb.

Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict, Disfigure and Massacre for creatures. With Terminus now all of our removal can kill TNN and untargetable creatures

Thoughtseize/Surgical Extraction (alongside Counterbalance and Canonist) for combo.

3 Entreat the Angel, 2 Clique and 3 Jace for the win. We just lose REBs

let's give it a try:

2 Vendlion Clique

4 Brainstorm
3 Terminus
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disfigure
1 Innocent Blood
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Entreat the Angels
1 Vindicate
2 Enlightened Tutor

1 Oblivion Ring
3 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Jace, TMS

2 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Plains
5 Island

Sideaboard:
3 Massacre
1 Counterbalance
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Moat
2 Energy Field (Goblin, Merfolk)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Thoughtseize

I agree that black is a very powerful splash, in my opinion, and have been very happy using it in previous tournaments. I actually like UBw a lot, and is what I actually run. Most people here will disagree though, claiming that no splash/red only is the way to go. Innocent blood is great vs. the current meta, but morever Liliana of the Veil can just win you games against so many decks on her own. It's a heavy black commitment, but it's not hard to find a single white source when you need a terminus and to even still run entreat. Mostly because any time you'd want to cast entreat, it should be late enough for you to find WW easily. Furthermore, black facilitates better openers vs. unfair decks in my opinion because going thoughtseize into counterbalance/counterspell is far superior to not playing anything turn 1 or 2 and leaving mana up for potential counterspells. Additionally, it gives you a ton of information when you need it in those matchups.

The following is close to a list I ran for a big local tournament in January. I actually ran baleful strixes at that time, but I'm not sure they're that great right now so I replaced them. You have a crazy game vs. creature decks at the get-go and post-board you have an obscene amount of hate vs. unfair decks. Given the distribution of (most) metas, I think this is an acceptable trade-off. Not sure if the list will really be to the liking of anybody here though.


// Lands
4 [A] Tundra
4 [A] Underground Sea
1 [PC2] Plains (5)
1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)
2 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [IN] Island (1)

// Creatures
1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage

// Spells
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
2 [AVR] Entreat the Angels
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [BRB] Counterspell
3 [V13] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [AVR] Terminus
4 [HOP] Innocent Blood

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce

Liliana is the best 3 drop ever but...

"reasonable" cards for miracle are:


BB
Liliana

WW
Entreat
Moat

UU
Jace
Counterbalance
Counterspell

this deck needs a stable manabase, basic lands are our best friends.. 3 double colored mana is something we really can't afford here.

I find ETutor --> Moat is stronger than Liliana (also because Liliana commits you to tap out all as soon as possible and can be Spell-Pierced)

edit: yes, anyway, after just 3-4 matches I find Innocent Blood is probably underrated and should be a staple here. 2+ easily

Heavy mana-costs is certainly a drawback. That said, I think that Entreat is worth running for it's immenser power, even given the casting cost. Additionally, I think in most circumstances when you really want/need to cast an entreat you will be able to find WW to do so. The main "greed" here is BB for Liliana, but I also believe that she's powerful enough to warrant less manabase stability. Basically in the matchups where you want her if you can resolve her chances are she might just completely win you the game.

Also, I don't really understand your comment about moat compared to Liliana. It can also be spell pierced and you have to tap out to play it too...

Liliana can be a very fine card but we should (first) find a way to abuse of her +1 ability.. this way is too much symmetrical

Ahh, I forgot to mention about Liliana's +1 in my original post. First off, Liliana is always an asymmetrical card just due to her nature. You don't need to run "specific cards to abuse her" to make her immensely powerful. In fact, I suspect that most decks running Liliana don't have specific ways to abuse her +1. But, we actually do have ways to abuse her ability. Namely, Sensei's divining top. Top basically extends our hand and won't have to worry about Liliana (in a topdeck situation, because with Liliana that's going to happen). But also Liliana can discard stranded miracles, which is pretty relevant since stranded miracles is a very real problem sometimes.

if we want to play Liliana, imho, we have to find a way to abuse more of her. At least, I do

something like (obviously not it) Bloodghast. that kind of engine

Cool trick with CB + Top:

http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79/c/3646265

I actually never thought of doing that. That's a great bluff!

good one, indeed. he faked not to have a 1cc drop on top