[Deck] GW/x Maverick

I've been playing arround with Punishing Maverick, plus Stoneforge Mystics, and deck seems to be running smoothly. I haven't been manascrewed in a while.

List:
Lands [23]
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Creatures [21]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells [16]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
1 Ajani Vegeant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Sideboard [15]
3 Pyroblast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Boiling Seas
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Maze of Ith

Boiling Seas is TEH SHIT against control. Pretty much like Choke, but better. Just wait for them to tap out, and win the game. Punishing Fire seems pretty good against everything in the field, except combo, which this deck is almost a dog, anyways. Engineered Explosives is also nice against random decks, such as Enchantress and Affinity.

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Isn't Boil strictly better than Boiling Seas? Is there a reason you'd not want the flexibility of Instant speed?

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

I've been playing arround with Punishing Maverick, plus Stoneforge Mystics, and deck seems to be running smoothly. I haven't been manascrewed in a while.

Boiling Seas is TEH SHIT against control. Pretty much like Choke, but better. Just wait for them to tap out, and win the game. Punishing Fire seems pretty good against everything in the field, except combo, which this deck is almost a dog, anyways. Engineered Explosives is also nice against random decks, such as Enchantress and Affinity.

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

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Why would you run that over Boil?

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Originally Posted by kai_nsane

What do you think about Garruk, Primal Hunter? I think i play him over Sigarda, because he is good against Jund and Pox too, but have nuts against UW controll.

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Why not both? Drawing 5 cards for 5 mana seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Why would you run that over Boil?

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Oh, I didn't know there was an Instant Speed one. Yeah, it's definetely better.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Oh, I didn't know there was an Instant Speed one. Yeah, it's definetely better.

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*facepalm*

Just use Tsunami, and you'll never worry about having to find Red mana.

Article about last week's SCG Open is up on StarCityGames.com. I hope you guys like it!

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ns-Zenith.html

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Sunyveil

Article about last week's SCG Open is up on StarCityGames.com. I hope you guys like it!

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ns-Zenith.html

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Nice report. I'm happy to see, that you take a good day with Maverick.

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In seven rounds, I did not lose a single game.

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Have you this result with your test deck?

Some Questions about your Sideboard. Are you happy with the tutor engine? I don't like it, because you just have only one answer. For example: You have only one O-Ring, but in some mu's you need a second or third O-Ring and no Tutor. I hope you understand, what i mean. My english is not the best.
Why do you play Zuran Orb? Against wich mu its relevant?

Thanks.

Zuran Orb is for Burn or U/R Delver. It's kind of janky but it makes those matchups very hard to lose.

I really like the Enlightened Tutor package, I haven't had instances where I really wished to have multiple copies of my hate cards. One is usually enough.

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Originally Posted by Sunyveil

Zuran Orb is for Burn or U/R Delver. It's kind of janky but it makes those matchups very hard to lose.

I really like the Enlightened Tutor package, I haven't had instances where I really wished to have multiple copies of my hate cards. One is usually enough.

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That had been my experience with the package too, and it works very well against Combo decks (including Burn).
My only reservation about the plan is that it lacks a good punch against fair strategies like Stoneblade, RUG/BUG Tempo, and DRS decks. While these matches are fairly even, having some strong inclusions helps to make sure we win G2/3.

Congrats on the 2nd place finish. The list looks awesome. I think more discard in the sideboard might help vs the Combo decks. 3 cabal therapy out of the board might help a lot with all the Sneak, Show, TES decks gaining popularity.

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Originally Posted by Jblaze4lif

Congrats on the 2nd place finish. The list looks awesome. I think more discard in the sideboard might help vs the Combo decks. 3 cabal therapy out of the board might help a lot with all the Sneak, Show, TES decks gaining popularity.

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Against Combo and to a lesser extent, Control, wouldn't Thalia work here too? Turn 1 discard, Turn 2 Thalia seems very good versus combo.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Against Combo and to a lesser extent, Control, wouldn't Thalia work here too? Turn 1 discard, Turn 2 Thalia seems very good versus combo.

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I agree. Thalia is really good against Combo, obviously. Part of the success I've had in the past with the deck was primarily due to Thalia slowing combo down enough to deploy stronger threats like KotR for beatdown or Gaddock Teeg and Canonist for further lock-pieces.

Having 4 Thoughtseize, 1-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3-4 Thalia, 1-2 Canonist, and 4 Mother of Runes (to protect your hatebears from their inevitable Pyroclasm/Abrupt Decay) seems like the best Maverick can hope to do against combo postboard, right? Assuming you lost game 1, turn 1 Thoughtseize/Mother of Runes -> turn 2 Hatebear seems like the strongest opening plays we have versus them.

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Originally Posted by Koby

That had been my experience with the package too, and it works very well against Combo decks (including Burn).
My only reservation about the plan is that it lacks a good punch against fair strategies like Stoneblade, RUG/BUG Tempo, and DRS decks. While these matches are fairly even, having some strong inclusions helps to make sure we win G2/3.

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in my own experience, RIP is really good vs RUG / BUG variants. It's not good vs Stoneforge sure, and it's antisynergistic with our KoTRs.

I think it is a mostly better Tormod's Crypt, though.

Choke is worth considering versus Stoneforge? If you keep them off hitting with a SoFaF, then Choke locks down nearly all of their lands.

In Sunyveil's list, I'd imagine he boards in Elspeth and Abrupt Decay versus Esperblade and the Delver-tempo decks, right? I mean, Elspeth is such a house in those super grindy games and she's particularly strong against Jace decks. Abrupt Decay seems to shine against Delver-tempo decks due to them being traditionally threat light (12-14 creatures) and one timely Abrupt Decay can set them behind a fair amount with no pressure on board.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

In Sunyveil's list, I'd imagine he boards in Elspeth and Abrupt Decay versus Esperblade and the Delver-tempo decks, right? I mean, Elspeth is such a house in those super grindy games and she's particularly strong against Jace decks. Abrupt Decay seems to shine against Delver-tempo decks due to them being traditionally threat light (12-14 creatures) and one timely Abrupt Decay can set them behind a fair amount with no pressure on board.

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My experience against Tempo had pointed towards Elspeth being useless. Four mana spells are hard to resolve against Daze, Spell Pierce, and Wasteland/Stifle. Elspeth is much better against Miracles than it is Delvers. Abrupt Decay and StP are both highly valuable as removing the Tempo deck's threat (or neutralizing it) means you get to play the long game, which has always favored Maverick.

Interesting. I've found that many of my games versus Delver tempo decks either end very quickly (turn 1 Delver on the play, backed up by loads of counter + burn/removal) or they go long due to Maverick's inherent ability to create a clogged board state (active Mother of Runes is just nutty versus tempo decks running 4-6 removal spells). If planning for the long game (which we should be against Delver tempo decks since we become the "control" deck), you haven't found yourself wanting a bomb like Elspeth? Or do you have other bombs, like Thrun/Sigarda/Garruk Relentless/etc? I maindeck one Elspeth and often will keep her in, while sideboarding in more removal + graveyard hate like Rest in Peace (shuts off their Mongoose, Goyf, DRS, Tombstalker, Darkblast, Life from the Loam, Ancient Grudge). What are your boarding plans versus Delver tempo decks (RUG and BUG specifically)?

Sure, RIP is great against Tempo, but I think the best way to reach the late game is removing Delver and resolving Scavenging Ooze. With S.Ooze, you effectively replicate the same effect that RIP provides without hurting yourself. In addition, it grows to become a large threat from all the work your opponent does to try to kill your creatures.

Against RUG Delver:
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-X Elspeth
-X Thrun/Sigarda
+ Removal
+ Bojuka Bog (spot nuke and mana source)

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Originally Posted by Koby

Sure, RIP is great against Tempo, but I think the best way to reach the late game is removing Delver and resolving Scavenging Ooze. With S.Ooze, you effectively replicate the same effect that RIP provides without hurting yourself. In addition, it grows to become a large threat from all the work your opponent does to try to kill your creatures.

Against RUG Delver:
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-X Elspeth
-X Thrun/Sigarda
+ Removal
+ Bojuka Bog (spot nuke and mana source)

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This is my current 75, let me know if you think this boarding plan is "right" versus Delver tempo decks:

Maindeck - 60

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

2 Umezawa’s Jitte

2 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard - 15

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Choke
3 Rest in Peace

I usually board -2 Pridemage, -1 Gaddock Teeg (only really stop Force of Will versus them, and if they boarded out Force of Will, then Teeg is truly just a Grizzly Bear), -1 Sigarda, -1 Ranger, and bring in +1 Enlightened Tutor, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Life from the Loam. I suppose I could go -1 Elspeth, but then I'd want to bring in +1 Linvala (doesn't die to Bolt, doesn't die to Abrupt Decay, blocks Delver, blocks Mongoose, blocks Clique if they boarded it in, turns off their Ooze if they boarded it in).

My sideboard is still a work in progress (Dueling Grounds is an experiment), but I feel pretty good about the maindeck. I've found Thalia is a BEATING versus Delver tempo decks, combo, Esperblade, and other random stuff, so I really don't ever plan on running less than 4 between my 75.

With your list, I would board as such:
-1 Sigarda (too expensive, just a 5/5 flyer vs Tempo)
-1 Elspeth (too expensive)
-2 Qasali Pridemage

+1 Bojuka Bog (extra mana source, and utility)
+1 Life from the Loam (Wasteland locking + recovering)
+1 Linvala (flyer vs Delver, 4 toughness)
+1 Thrun/Choke (alternately, only -1 Pridemage)

This matchup doesn't need much to begin with, just streamline the deck for efficient threats + answers, and tight play.

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Originally Posted by Koby

This matchup doesn't need much to begin with, just streamline the deck for efficient threats + answers, and tight play.

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Assuming 2 Teeg in the 75, would you bring in both against RUG? Submerge is still a thing last I checked.

The main issue I have against RUG is that I think they have more potential for "oops, I win" opening hands than we do.

The card you're most worried about against RUG/BUG is Delver, and 4x STP 2x Abrupt Decay with Scryb Ranger and Maze of Ith is usually enough. I don't like Elspeth in that matchup because she just costs too much... your GSZ creatures are probably good enough to win those games.

I definitely wouldn't cut Crypt, it is the best to buy you time against graveyard decks. Once you get a Scavenging Ooze online you win, so you just need to delay until that point.

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Originally Posted by TiltingKitty

Assuming 2 Teeg in the 75, would you bring in both against RUG? Submerge is still a thing last I checked.

The main issue I have against RUG is that I think they have more potential for "oops, I win" opening hands than we do.

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I wouldn't consider the 2nd Teeg due to diminishing returns. I would keep one maindeck to shut off FoW and Submerge (more likely the latter since their counterspells are bad in this matchup).

I would leave 1 Qasali Pridemage in Tempo RUG MU - specially vs burn heavy. I faced few times that RUG put Sulful Vortex just to have chance burn you out after some early combat dmg beating.

just came from a small tournament and came out 1st. Thanks again sunnyveil for inspiring us maverick players to slug it out again against islands!

Deck list
Artifact 2
2 umezawa jitte

Spells 16
2 sylvan library
4 inquisition to kozilek
2 abrupt decay
4 swords to plowshares
4 green sun zenith

Creatures 19
1 birds of paradise
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 knights of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 scryb ranger
2 qasali pridemage


Lands 23
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
2 bayou
1 scrubland
3 savannah
4 verdant catacomb
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
3 wastelands

Sideboard
1 gaddock teeg
2 enlightened tutor
1 bojuka bog
1 aethersworn canonist
1 oblivion ring
1 choke
2 engineered plague
1 circle of protection red
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 linvala
2 surgical extraction

×notes:
deathrite shaman is incredible.
All its abilities were used throughout the game. From pinging a control player every turn, to outracing a goblin deck by constantly gaining 2 life every turn.
Scryb ranger is one of the best cards in the deck. Combat tricks with mother of runes(double protection) and knight of the reliquary(instant +2/+2) will almost always will always turn the tide for you.
Discards and abrupt decays may prove to be our answer to miracles as countebalance and counterspells are invalidated by those cards.
Black provides access to engineered plague, which i think is the best answer to another one of mavericks bad matchups, aggro tribal decks.
An active sylvan library and deathrite shaman is card advantage heaven.

have you faced a Punishing Maverick in any of your games? If so, how was the matchup?

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Originally Posted by IL_casual

just came from a small tournament and came out 1st. Thanks again sunnyveil for inspiring us maverick players to slug it out again against islands!

Deck list
Artifact 2
2 umezawa jitte

Spells 16
2 sylvan library
4 inquisition to kozilek
2 abrupt decay
4 swords to plowshares
4 green sun zenith

Creatures 18
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 knights of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 scryb ranger
2 qasali pridemage


Lands 24
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
2 bayou
1 scrubland
4 savannah
4 verdant catacomb
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
3 wastelands

Sideboard
1 gaddock teeg
2 enlightened tutor
1 bojuka bog
1 aethersworn canonist
1 oblivion ring
1 choke
2 engineered plague
1 circle of protection red
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 linvala
2 surgical extraction

×notes:
deathrite shaman is incredible.
All its abilities were used throughout the game. From pinging a control player every turn, to outracing a goblin deck by constantly gaining 2 life every turn.
Scryb ranger is one of the best cards in the deck. Combat tricks with mother of runes(double protection) and knight of the reliquary(instant +2/+2) will almost always will always turn the tide for you.
Discards and abrupt decays may prove to be our answer to miracles as countebalance and counterspells are invalidated by those cards.
Black provides access to engineered plague, which i think is the best answer to another one of mavericks bad matchups, aggro tribal decks.
An active sylvan library and deathrite shaman is card advantage heaven.

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Originally Posted by Fatal

I would leave 1 Qasali Pridemage in Tempo RUG MU - specially vs burn heavy. I faced few times that RUG put Sulful Vortex just to have chance burn you out after some early combat dmg beating.

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This is a very good point, I kept forgetting to bring it up

@IL - 2 abrupt decay main ever felt like too much for you?

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Originally Posted by diakocjay

have you faced a Punishing Maverick in any of your games? If so, how was the matchup?

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I'd imagine punishing would be pretty good vs this deck. Punishing Mav was pretty good against junk before deathrite shaman came around, and I imagine it is just as strong vs it if not better. Of course, I don't know if dark maverick gives enough justification to switch back to punishing fire version. I live in socal and I have to play the 4 thalia version otherwise combo would cream me every time.

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

I'd imagine punishing would be pretty good vs this deck. Punishing Mav was pretty good against junk before deathrite shaman came around, and I imagine it is just as strong vs it if not better. Of course, I don't know if dark maverick gives enough justification to switch back to punishing fire version. I live in socal and I have to play the 4 thalia version otherwise combo would cream me every time.

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Nope, i didnt face any punishing maverick during the tourne and i would have to agree that a recurring shock could potentially be troublesome. But an active mom and deathrite could easily defeat decks relying too much on punishing fire.
Also, as my sideboards are also positioned to handle dredge, i have the option of boarding in grave hates game 2.

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Originally Posted by Sunyveil

This is a very good point, I kept forgetting to bring it up

@IL - 2 abrupt decay main ever felt like too much for you?

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@Sunny: nope, abrupt decays proved to be one of my mvps throughout the tourney, acting as an additional removal but more often as qasali pridemage 3. It killed rest in peace/counterbalance/cliques protecting jaces/delvers. It think AD gives us the extra reach against complacent opponents hiding under a hand of counterspells.

@Il_Casual: Were the IoK's in there based upon availability issues or do you prefer them over Thoughtsieze because it doesn't cost life?

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Originally Posted by Sansian

@Il_Casual: Were the IoK's in there based upon availability issues or do you prefer them over Thoughtsieze because it doesn't cost life?

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Lifebased actually. I also own a set of thoughtseizes but during playtests, the cards often stripped were 3cmcs or below. I opted for duress since we mostly strip spells but their were instances that an opponent is holding a snapcast or other tricky creature.
Also,since i only have deathrites ability and the jitte as life gain, id rather use those abilities to ping my opponent of kill their critters.

@Il_Casual: I like your GWb Maverick. I have test it a little bit and it plays very smooth. The Mu against Midrange Deck is quite good, but the Control and Storm Mu is a lot of better, than with straight GW.

Do you think there is space for 2 Mirran Crusader in your Deck? I think i cut a Land (Bayou) and play 61 cards, because the Crusader is huge!

you surely want to take Jace, Elspeth, Ad Nauseam, Terminus, Verdict, Sneak Attack, Submerge, Griselbrand, FoW once in a while... Since you have the ability to stabalize and even gain back life I would play Thoughtseize 100%. In my various decks playing discard I often had a 2/2 split, due to life losse (these decks also often have snapcaster), but even with these decks I prefer thoughtseize now.

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Originally Posted by kai_nsane

@Il_Casual: I like your GWb Maverick. I have test it a little bit and it plays very smooth. The Mu against Midrange Deck is quite good, but the Control and Storm Mu is a lot of better, than with straight GW.

Do you think there is space for 2 Mirran Crusader in your Deck? I think i cut a Land (Bayou) and play 61 cards, because the Crusader is huge!

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Hi! Cutting a land to add 2 3cmc cards could potentially ruin your curve at some points.unless you feel a jund/junk meta, i wont recommend it. But you would insist on adding mirrans, i would suggest -1 reliquary for it instead of a land.

× I added 1x birds of paradisd to the deck and -1 savannah. Like what was mentioned, 1 bird could provide acceleration during the 1st few turns and also provide the rare black mana.

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Originally Posted by catmint

you surely want to take Jace, Elspeth, Ad Nauseam, Terminus, Verdict, Sneak Attack, Submerge, Griselbrand, FoW once in a while... Since you have the ability to stabalize and even gain back life I would play Thoughtseize 100%. In my various decks playing discard I often had a 2/2 split, due to life losse (these decks also often have snapcaster), but even with these decks I prefer thoughtseize now.

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Thanks, ill try again tomorrow and test using thoughtseizes on a bigger tourney. Maybe because my meta here is more aggro than combo thats why iok was my choice turn 1 discard.

As for the cards you mentioned above...that's the main reason why gaddock teeg is in the mainboard in the first place. What i would rather pull from their hands are removals that might kill my utility creatures.")

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Originally Posted by IL_casual

Thanks, ill try again tomorrow and test using thoughtseizes on a bigger tourney. Maybe because my meta here is more aggro than combo thats why iok was my choice turn 1 discard.

As for the cards you mentioned above...that's the main reason why gaddock teeg is in the mainboard in the first place. What i would rather pull from their hands are removals that might kill my utility creatures.")

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You have a good point. Anything that inquisition of kozilek doesn't get is blocked by teeg (at least non creature spells).

For those that have gone to discard and cut Thalia, how much better is your combo matchup now? Also, how are your other non-creature centric matchups? Did you ever miss Thalia versus decks like BUG/RUG Delver, Esperblade, etc?