[Primer] R/G Lands

So I've got a tournament coming up at the end of this week, but my board is in shambles right now. Currently, it's at:

4 Chalice
4 Tracker
3 Krosan Grip
1 Boseiju
2 Choke
1 Depths

I have almost no answer to combo, save for the Chalice, but I'm lucky if I open with it, and Spheres are almost impossible to come by in my area. Are there any small changes I could make on the fly in the next few days in hopes of having some answer to combo? The meta I'm going to is mostly fair decks, with some combo scattered throughout, primarily Elves, Burn, and maybe an ANT or two.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

So I've got a tournament coming up at the end of this week, but my board is in shambles right now. Currently, it's at:

4 Chalice
4 Tracker
3 Krosan Grip
1 Boseiju
2 Choke
1 Depths

I have almost no answer to combo, save for the Chalice, but I'm lucky if I open with it, and Spheres are almost impossible to come by in my area. Are there any small changes I could make on the fly in the next few days in hopes of having some answer to combo? The meta I'm going to is mostly fair decks, with some combo scattered throughout, primarily Elves, Burn, and maybe an ANT or two.

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I can't do much more to suggest you my board, I'm kinda happy of my combo MU

// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Artifact
4 Mox Diamond

// 6 Enchantment
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Molten Vortex

// 8 Instant
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire

// 34 Land
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Windswept Heath
1 Ancient Tomb

// 8 Sorcery
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam


// 15 Sideboard
// 7 Artifact
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance

// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Tireless Tracker

// 5 Instant
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Heaven

// 1 Land
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog


I made few changes since I won that 130 ppl event, still unsure about them, but the side is basicly the same

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Originally Posted by Noctalor

I can't do much more to suggest you my board, I'm kinda happy of my combo MU

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I think I misspoke: What are my options for fighting combo matchups without using Sphere since I don't have any and don't have access to any? Or are 4 Chalice good enough?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

I think I misspoke: What are my options for fighting combo matchups without using Sphere since I don't have any and don't have access to any? Or are 4 Chalice good enough?

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If you can't add more disruption, perhaps try speeding up instead? You could use Ancient Tomb and two Manabond. You mentioned Elves above, so maybe add in a Kozilek's Return or another sweeper of your choice. If Storm is a problem, you could also consider a spicy white or black splash to get access to Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia or Thoughtseize.

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Originally Posted by filln

If you can't add more disruption, perhaps try speeding up instead? You could use Ancient Tomb and two Manabond. You mentioned Elves above, so maybe add in a Kozilek's Return or another sweeper of your choice. If Storm is a problem, you could also consider a spicy white or black splash to get access to Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia or Thoughtseize.

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I've been seeing Ancient Tomb more and more; is this due to having faster mana for Chalice, Sphere, and Stage I'm assuming? I've also thought about a third colour, but I'm not sure which one I want to do. I've been thinking of perhaps going into black, similar to Long's list with Abrupt Decay before the Top ban. Here's my current mainboard:

1x Bojuka Bog
3x Dark Depths
1x ForestGE icon
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Riftstone Portal
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
4x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Exploration
1x Manabond
2x Molten Vortex
4x Crop Rotation
3x Punishing Fire
4x Gamble
4x Life from the Loam

It's a standard RG list, with little changes, so if I did add black or white, would I just cut a utility land for a Bayou or Scrubland and add cards in the board?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

I think I misspoke: What are my options for fighting combo matchups without using Sphere since I don't have any and don't have access to any? Or are 4 Chalice good enough?

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Shops around you don't have thorns or trinispheres either?

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

Shops around you don't have thorns or trinispheres either?

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No. I live in the south US, and I'm lucky if people have legacy pieces for trade or sale usually. Usually there's one or two guys that have parts, but they live a state away which is where I'm going to the tourney. I'd order online, but I just don't have the money for next-day shipping.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

No. I live in the south US, and I'm lucky if people have legacy pieces for trade or sale usually. Usually there's one or two guys that have parts, but they live a state away which is where I'm going to the tourney. I'd order online, but I just don't have the money for next-day shipping.

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Two other ideas... if you're truly afraid of Storm, perhaps Mindbreak Trap could be an option? Could also counter a Natural Order from Elves too following a Glimpse chain. Also, I remember seeing Long try out some Red Elemental Blasts too, which is more flexible in helping out to take down Leovold too.

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Originally Posted by filln

Two other ideas... if you're truly afraid of Storm, perhaps Mindbreak Trap could be an option? Could also counter a Natural Order from Elves too. Also, I remember seeing Long try out some Red Elemental Blasts too, which is more flexible in helping out to take down Leovold too.

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I'm more afraid of Delver, Stoneblade, Show and Tell, D&T, and Elves to be honest. That's the majority of the field where I play. That's pretty good; I compeltely forgot about Mindbreak Trap. I don't have much experience with Elves aside from locking them out with Tabernacle; how often does Trap come up to be free against them?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

No. I live in the south US, and I'm lucky if people have legacy pieces for trade or sale usually. Usually there's one or two guys that have parts, but they live a state away which is where I'm going to the tourney. I'd order online, but I just don't have the money for next-day shipping.

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Damn, didn't realize how nice I had it in Denver. I like the mindbreak trap idea too.

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

Damn, didn't realize how nice I had it in Denver. I like the mindbreak trap idea too.

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You crazy northerners and your popular legacy events. That reminds me when I visited family in Oregon and wandered into a shoppe downtown where they were running a weekly legacy event. It blew my mind that the words "weekly" and "legacy" could be in the same sentence.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

I'm more afraid of Delver, Stoneblade, Show and Tell, D&T, and Elves to be honest. That's the majority of the field where I play. That's pretty good; I compeltely forgot about Mindbreak Trap. I don't have much experience with Elves aside from locking them out with Tabernacle; how often does Trap come up to be free against them?

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Warping Wail looks good for your meta. Counter the S&T,kill the weenies!

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

I'm more afraid of Delver, Stoneblade, Show and Tell, D&T, and Elves to be honest. That's the majority of the field where I play. That's pretty good; I compeltely forgot about Mindbreak Trap. I don't have much experience with Elves aside from locking them out with Tabernacle; how often does Trap come up to be free against them?

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Sounds like you need a sweeper or two for Delver, D&T, and Elves. I like Kozilek's Return, though others have used Heaven // Earth, Pyroclasm, or Volcanic Fallout.

Show and Tell is a really tough matchup. Some extremely narrow options could be Ashen Rider or Gilded Drake to put off of their own Show and Tell.

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Originally Posted by Ingo

Warping Wail looks good for your meta. Counter the S&T,kill the weenies!

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Would Wail go in the side though, and what would I take out? I've thought about it, I just haven't found the room.

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Originally Posted by filln

Sounds like you need a sweeper or two for Delver, D&T, and Elves. I like Kozilek's Return, though others have used Heaven // Earth, Pyroclasm, or Volcanic Fallout.

Show and Tell is a really tough matchup. Some extremely narrow options could be Ashen Rider or Gilded Drake to put off of their own Show and Tell.

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I've pretty much given up on S&T matches at this point. It's just a match that's hard for me to win every time, so I don't dedicate board hate to it because it would weaken my board overall. For sweepers, what would be your recommendation? I'm leaning towards Fallout because of the best text: "Can't be countered."

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

Would Wail go in the side though, and what would I take out? I've thought about it, I just haven't found the room.

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You could drop 1-3 chalice, 1 Tracker, 1 Boseiju and 2 choke for more combohate and/or a sweeper. Kozilek's Return is probably the best as its colorless. Being uncounterable isn't overly important, as you probably want to gamble for it (and the gamble can be countered too).

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Originally Posted by Ingo

You could drop 1-3 chalice, 1 Tracker, 1 Boseiju and 2 choke for more combohate and/or a sweeper. Kozilek's Return is probably the best as its colorless. Being uncounterable isn't overly important, as you probably want to gamble for it (and the gamble can be countered too).

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Would the colourless part be favourable due to BEB and Hydroblast?
Edit: As well as Mom and other white protection spells/abilities?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

As well as Mom

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Especially for mom, as the sweeper's especially there for D&T (and Prelate)

I think 2 Warping Wail are the real deal in this meta and I really enjoyed them in my test games.
- Makes a token for Diabolic Edict (which is a popular sideboard card right now as a 2-of mostly)
- additional answer to DRS
- Counters S&T, Reanimate/Exhume, Infernal Tutor/Burning Wish, NO/Glimpse/GSZ (and Time Spiral lul jk)

I'm also trying out 2 Phyrexian Revoker. I'm not sure if it's good enough but it's pretty versatile. Have you tried Revoker (post-SDT Ban) and what's your experience with this guy?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

It's a standard RG list, with little changes, so if I did add black or white, would I just cut a utility land for a Bayou or Scrubland and add cards in the board?

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in my experience playing a 3rd color & PF/Groves is tough on the mana base because of the low fetch count.

My colored land sources: 6 fetches, 1 bayou, 3 taiga, 1 forest, 1 bog, 1 thicket, 1 b-ring.

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Originally Posted by djxstream

in my experience playing a 3rd color & PF/Groves is tough on the mana base because of the low fetch count.

My colored land sources: 6 fetches, 1 bayou, 3 taiga, 1 forest, 1 bog, 1 thicket, 1 b-ring.

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100% agree with this, and why i've never been a fan of splashing a 3rd color, even though it makes your deck more powerful.

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Tomb

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Jarvis is the reason for the 4 thorns instead of 4 spheres the various show and tell matchups? Those are probably the only ones where I imagine you want to smoothly curve into tracker. Am I missing a few?

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Originally Posted by CptHaddock

Jarvis is the reason for the 4 thorns instead of 4 spheres the various show and tell matchups? Those are probably the only ones where I imagine you want to smoothly curve into tracker. Am I missing a few?

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That's the only reason, yeah.

If you'd rather hedge versus Elves, Aluren, etc, you can swap them back.

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

That's the only reason, yeah.

If you'd rather hedge versus Elves, Aluren, etc, you can swap them back.

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I may be wrong, but I really think we ned the best possible card versus Food Chain, which is a really hard MU, Thorn does nothing there and Sphere is at least blocking the infinite mana.

Isn't that already enought to prefer Sphere?

Against Foodchain Sphere is really good. It completely shut down they engine.
I usually side in Sphere, Krosan Grip and Revoker (Foodchain/Ballista/Shaman). These cards are strong enough to let you assemble the token. The only last thing to be careful is Surgical.

On that note, do ya'll think it's worth a few board slots to put in Surgical? I've been thinking of doing it since it technically free, but I always find it hurts the board more than helps it.

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Originally Posted by Noctalor

I may be wrong, but I really think we ned the best possible card versus Food Chain, which is a really hard MU, Thorn does nothing there and Sphere is at least blocking the infinite mana.

Isn't that already enought to prefer Sphere?

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There's not a lot of Food Chain over here, but that is a legitimate reason.

I was having a lot of success with this deck only to now be frustrated because I have 0-2'd three tournaments in a row for a total of a 0-6 streak. I need some help and advice getting through.

Losses are from
3 Burn decks
2 Sneak and Show decks
1 U/B reanimator

There has to be something for the deck to get through combo and burn. I just can't seem to get wins against these decks. What's more frustrating is the pilots of these decks weren't even good players.

My list is very vanilla

4 Crop rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Molten vortex
1 manabond

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Fetch lands
1 Tranquil Thicket


Sideboard -
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Drop of honey
1 Barbarian Ring
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle


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Originally Posted by Epeirogeny

I was having a lot of success with this deck only to now be frustrated because I have 0-2'd three tournaments in a row for a total of a 0-6 streak. I need some help and advice getting through.

Losses are from
3 Burn decks
2 Sneak and Show decks
1 U/B reanimator

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Burn, S&T and Reanimator aren't favorable matchups, so it's not strange to have bad results against them.
The meta is unpredictable now, and proactive gameplans like combo or burn are probably popular choices now. Lands is not good positioned against this, but the meta is still settling. I'm playing Lands more proactive too right now, adopting a more combominded gameplan, by keeping comboheavy openers, because a quick token is your best shot at winning in game1 against those bad matchups. Still not good ofcourse, but I've managed to pull off occasional game1 wins against combo, and with game 1 in the pocket, winning an additional game with sideboardcards coning in, is manageable.
Against burn you also have the controlling chasmlock game1 (game2 and 3 they might have gravehate), but it's a complicated puzzle to pull off.

Or play a different deck, if you're meta is saturated by combo. I play BR Reanimator in a store with lots of Storm and S&T players, and it's nice to prey on them for a change :)

Play the Ancient Tomb. Really, it does wonders in those matchups where you turn 1 sphere or chalice them.

Looks like a lot of people lately have been having success online playing 4 Ghost Quarter and dropping Rishadian Ports. This could be because ports are so expensive. I wonder if this is the directly to take this deck with all the non basics running around.

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Originally Posted by Sparkii

Play the Ancient Tomb. Really, it does wonders in those matchups where you turn 1 sphere or chalice them.

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Yea, I think i might sub out the barbarian ring for the ancient tomb. Death and Taxes has been on the decline in my local meta. Though, I still like to play a list as if I was going to a big event.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

Looks like a lot of people lately have been having success online playing 4 Ghost Quarter and dropping Rishadian Ports. This could be because ports are so expensive. I wonder if this is the directly to take this deck with all the non basics running around.

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I don't think it's a matter of price. The meta is still adapting and the mana denial plan is a really strong edge of attack to win game. IMO, Port is a reactive answer while Quarter is more a proactive spell that fight very good other combo decks and all grindy MUs.

I played against neo Miracles last night with Ghost Quarter and made short work of it. The deck is too slow, has too much "Air" in it and has too few threats. Needing a double White spell to win, or Jace made things simple. Jace I answered with Burn and Angels I never let him have the mana for.

After the games he told me he just kept drawing Terminus and they clumped up his hand. Other than Bloodmoon, there is little in that deck that bothers me.

Oh and I got to play against Burn too. At lest the new art on Price is interesting. That's something positive I guess.

Can confirm, you guys are good vs the new Miracles deck.

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Can confirm, you guys are good vs the new Miracles deck.

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Well, ain't that nice to know!

Question to all: GQ are out, Ports go in?

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Question to all: GQ are out, Ports go in?

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I'm sticking with the GQs (3x) at the moment

Even when i played with ports, I always liked having 1 GQ in addition...so to switch back to that config would require me to make 2 more spots avail to fit the full set of ports, which i dont feel like doing right now. I'm on RGb build.

Keeping in the GQ. I find they are either Strip Mine or a way to remove a decks final few lands. DnT is the only deck I have felt of late that I would rather the switch. I also like that I can force a shuffle against Brainstorm sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Question to all: GQ are out, Ports go in?

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If I play local (where I more or less know the metagame), I go with 4 GQ and a single Crucible (1 Crucible and 1 Explosives instead of 2 Explosives) because my local meta is full of combo. But if I go playing in an unknown meta, I still keep my old configuration of 4 Port and 2 Explosives.

So last Sunday I participated in a Teams event in Memphis and punted so freakin' hard. Even though my team (T2, Modern, Legacy) made it into top 8, my personal record of the day was 0-3-1 and 1 DNF; my games always went 0-2 against me. This is my current list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-06-16-SGB-lands/

I lost against Mono Red Sneak Attack, Grixis Delver, RW (Eldrazi/Taxes; my teammates won before we finished), and Czech Pile. I don't know what happened aside, but my deck hated me all day and every match I never saw a Loam, every Gamble was countered, and every land became Moutains before I could get my Forest. It was so depressing I'm not sure if I should switch to RUG or Junderdome colours now.

R1: Mono Red Sneak Attack
I have fetch into Forest into Exploration, Grove. He goes T1 Blood Moon, T2 Chalice on 1, so no DD combo and no Molten Vortex locks me out. Game two I get Taiga into Exploration into Portal in hopes of sacking it to Chasm next turn to ensure green mana. He goes T1 Tomb, 3 Lotus Petal, Blood Moon, Chalice on 1. He later gets Sneak Attack down and brings in Grizz, Worldspine Wurm, and Inferno Titan.

R2: Grixis Delver
Every Gamble and Exploration is either Forced or Dazed and both games I never see a single Loam.

R3: RW Eldrazi/Taxes
Game 1 I Tabernacle and GQ him out to concede. Game 2 he TKS's my only Loam and I never see another one. Game 3 he get Leyline of the Void on T0 so I play off the top and hold him off until my two teammates win.

R4: ID into Top 8. This would have been Elves

QF: Czech Pile
Game 1: Exploration, Dazed. Gamble, Forced. Loam hit by Thoughtseize and then maindeck Surgical. I make Lage, he chumps with Strix for a turn and topdecks LOTV. Game 2: Exploration is Forced. T1 Thoughtseize into Surgical again to Loam, followed by his board of Delver, Pyromancer, and Leovold. I'm officially done with this day.

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Originally Posted by kravkenov

If I play local (where I more or less know the metagame), I go with 4 GQ and a single Crucible (1 Crucible and 1 Explosives instead of 2 Explosives) because my local meta is full of combo. But if I go playing in an unknown meta, I still keep my old configuration of 4 Port and 2 Explosives.

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I'm kind of surprised you opt for GQ over Port in a combo-heavy meta. I've usually found Ports to be more effective against most combo.