[Deck] 8 Ball (8 Sphere Affinity)

Updated 8-8-08
In the vial affinity thread there has been alot of talk about 8 sphere affinity. 8 Sphere affinity is a build of affinity that tries to abuse the spheres (sphere of resistance and thorn of amethyst) with the use of cards with affinity for artifacts. After seeing some basic lists I started playing with the deck and eventually came to this list:

3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
3 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [10E] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial

Updated List
// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Winter Orb

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [SH] Fling
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt



Matchups:

SI- 80-20 in our favor because they don't have an answear to the spheres.
Spring Tide- 70-30 FOW and Remand Helps but its not nearly enough.

(These are two decks that I own so its easy to test them.) This saturday I will be doing some MWS testing.

8-8-08 Played Against Meathooks 2-0

8-8-08 Played Against GWB Sui 2-1 (two spheres and a winter orb is a fun lock)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fons

SI- 80-20 in our favor because they don't have an answear to the spheres.
Spring Tide- 70-30 FOW and Remand Helps but its not nearly enough.

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You haven't tested this very much, have you? There's no way a deck without blue can boast and 80-20 match up against against SI. Did you test against someone who knows how to play SI? Were you always on the play? The same goes for Spring Tide.

I would just mull til i had a first or second turn sphere and hope they didn't go off turn 1.

Why not add a chalice of the void while you're at it instead of that sucky Disciple? I really hate it, as you have no sacrifice outlet other than Arcbound Ravager. You will rarely have that many artifacts to make it dangerous for the opponent to activate deed.

Changes I'd make:

+4 Chalice of the Void
+4 City of Traitors

-4 Disciple of the Vault
-4 Vault of Whispers

This decreases your artifact count, but gives you needed explosiveness. It's actually the same; Adding one more mana every time you tap - or increasing affinity count and tapping for one. Oh, and City doesn't get smacked by deed.

EDIT: For people who might like to ask, then no, it isn't antisynergistic to run chalice where it should be played at 1 in the same deck as Æther Vial. Really, it hurts so small parts of your deck. 4/60 cards. That is 6,67% of your deck. I really think that adding chalice is worth the effort. Chalice helps against combo, thresh, and bla. bla. bla...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willoe

This decreases your artifact count

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Actually it doesn't.

You're right, it doesn't. What I really meant was that it decreases your artifact land count. And with two artifact lands in play, your affinity virtually goes down by 2, if you can follow me.

The only problem with cutting disciple is that it adds random wins to the deck.
I would also have to cut aether vial.

I've been testing this deck to. And with the limited testing i've been doing I came to the conclusion that this deck absolutely needs Aether Vial.
Vial helps you play around your own spheres + it dodges counters.
I also really believe that this deck lacks wasteland. I've been able to keep players from playing spells with double sphere followed by wasteland.

I would probably do something like this:
-3 Blinkmoth Nexus
-2 glimmervoid

+4 Wasteland
+1 Ancient Tomb (turn one ravager/sphere/thorn seems more plausible with this in your hand).

I'll begin testing this idea is so awesome it absolutely blew me away when I saw it mentioned here on the source. An Affinity deck with disruption for combo before sideboarding.

And post board you would have cards like chalice/needle/crypt.. Seems pretty strong to me.

What if we take ornithopter out for winter orb?

Glimmervoid definitly has to stay, due to the fact that goblins is a bad matchup so engineered plague is a good friend and more blue lands the better.

Sample List

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Winter Orb

What happens when the opponent plays a Tarmogoyf, or isn't playing a control deck, but rather an aggro deck...

I'd make the mainboard focus on beating control and combo (meaning also Dark Confidant mainboard over Thoughtcast), and I'd try to have the sideboard transform you into a variation of Affinity that can compete/stomp normal aggro and fast decks. I'd also like to see 1-2x City of Traitors, or 3-4x Lotus Petal to ensure a turn 1 Sphere/Thorn/Orb.

How does this do against 3sphere stompy decks?

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Originally Posted by Fons

What if we take ornithopter out for winter orb?

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Considering how Fetchland-heavy the meta is, wouldn't be combining Winter Orb + Ankh of Mishra (plus some Thorns/Spheres) along with ways to deal fast damage (e.g. Disciple) fun?

The problem is finding room for the stuff that actually hits the red zone.

Engineered Plague Fixes the Goblin Matchup.
3sphere builds in theory shouldn't be hard due to the fact that do not play alot of lands so wasteland should really help there. Making Chrome Mox actually cost mana will also hurt them.

Propaganda + Winter Orb might be a good way to stall aggro until we can either fly over them or ping them to death.

Fling could also be in the board to fix aggro just change the MD Citidels to Great Furnaces.

Meekstone could also help as none of our creatures are big until plating equips them.

Its feels weird to suggest Meekstone and Propaganda in affinity.

Is the Creature count to low now?
Is this turning into to much of a control/lock deck?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fons

Is this turning into to much of a control/lock deck?

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Is that really a bad thing? Aggro Affinity hasn't exactly taken legacy by storm. The more controllish the better I would think.

Amp up the number of artifact control cards as high as feasible (yes do run Winter Orb), and run strong affinity based creatures, and you're golden.

Alright Ive been playing around with this deck for a while as kind of a pet project, and this is the list I've settled on for now.

// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Glimmervoid

// Creatures
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Somber Hoverguard
1 Myr Enforcer

// Spells
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb

// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Propaganda
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague

As Clark said, I think that the more controlish form this deck has taken is a good thing. Aggro Affinity is just not as fast as goblins without as good card advantage, and doesn't play enough control to make up for it. The above list plays basically overpowered one-sided control cards.
Chalice is absolutely godly in the meta right now, its just hard to find a home for because most of the time, if a deck can play it effectively for 1, the deck is too slow and ends up being bad. Winter orb, pretty much same thing; it's not an insta-gg like Chalice is in some matchups but it slows them down rediculously. With affinity, your abundance of 2lands, and being able to spend 3 or 4 mana making a 2378469285/2 flyer (hovergaurd or thopter with a plating), It doesnt hurt you much.
Basically the deck is a stax-esque, except it's able to switch rolls instantly and swing for lethal damage in a couple turns. The typical game is spending turns 1-4 or 5 playing lock peices and slowing your opponent down, then spend a few turns beating their faces in with flyers / huge ravagers / whatever. However, the deck obviously has its problems. It has a tough time dealing with more than one resolved early beater. If you can slow them down so that they're only swinging with a goyf or a few goblins or whatever by turn 4 or 5 or so, Its no big deal because you 're going to kill them first. But if they get a turn 2 goyf followed by another or an abundance of removal for your fatties you end up losing the race due to no direct removal. It almost makes me want to play something like Propoganda MD, but I dont think that's the right choice.
Some people may o_0 at the random enforcer or the 7 2lands. Basically, I ended up with a flex slot MD, and I stuck enforcer in there because late game when you're in topdeck mode, you're looking for threats that you can actually land with all the spheres out. Enforcer has filled this roll pretty nicely. Also, 4 Tombs just hurts too much and too often I have lost because of taking 8 or so damage off them and barely not being able to 'stabilize' (not really what this deck does, but as accurate a word as I can come up with).
Also, as to the lack of Disciple and Vial. All too often, in this list, Vial is completely dead as you sit with a hovergaurd and frogmite in your hand. And you love playing chalice for 1. Its cool in the old vial affinity list and in the more aggressive 8sphere lists but it just doesn't fit here. And Disciple... ah disciple. He's a tricky dude, and does randomly win you games. But all too often, he's a completely dead draw, or ends up just being win more. Every card in this deck serves an explicit purpose and I just cant find room for such an inconsistent card.
Basically, I honestly think this deck has potential, but it has some problems that need smoothing out, whether it be by tuning or skill in playing, both of which I will be working on. So, any help is appreciated ^_^

What role is this deck trying to play?

This deck appears to be attempting to be an aggro workshop deck. Obviously, it wants to disrupt like stax, but it wants to win early.

I have a few questions:

Why not just play stax? After all, this deck really lacks the game it needs against an aggro-heavy deck.

Is it really worth having a stax deck without abusing 3-sphere and CoW?

Is it really possible to build an accelerated mana-base without bastardizing it by removing the heart and soul of affinity: the artifact lands? How do you keep the early artifact count high enough to compensate for a lack of artifact lands?

What non-creature spells must be cut and why?

Here is what I like about the idea:

I find this deck can break the symmetry of winter orb and spheres in ways that other decks simply can't, including stax. If this deck is to amount to anything different than watered-down stax, then it needs to break the symmetry of orb and spheres.

First, for the winter orb, affinity is one of the few decks that can almost fully function off 1 or 2 lands for the entire game. Orb is game breaking against control decks, often timewalking you several times. But, it doesn't do enough against a deck like goblins (a bad matchup). Propaganda is a good answer though! Also, should relic barrier be considered for end step pwnage?

Sphere plays a fundamental role in universally slowing all decks, and because of the affinity mechanic, this deck is in a position to break the symmetry. To make the most use of this we need to run a more stax-like manabase to even effectively get them into play, but also run enough artifacts to abuse affinity mechanics (including the artifact land base).

Also, we have to remember this deck can't be normal affinity. Aggressive cards that would normally fit the archetype simply don't fit the role of this deck. Drop disruption, break the symmetry by casting undercosted creatures, and win before they can recover. This is what stax-affinity deck must do.

Sadly, non-creature spells are hurt by all 8 spheres. In aggro-affinity, non-creature spells generally exist to make affinity an aggro-combo deck with huge consistency and explosive comboliciousness. This isn't an aggro-combo deck, and so we should definitely question the inclusion of spells that aren't pushing the prison or breaking the symmetry of the prison. Some cards just can't make the cut in this deck that could be included in a normal affinity deck, such as:

Disciple
Thoughtcast
Shrapnel Blast
Fling
Dark Confidant
Blinkmoth Nexus

In addition, while 8 spheres and 4 orbs are automatic includes, the inclusion of Chalice is a difficult choice. Chalice is excellent in combo matches and fairly amazing set at 1 against some decks. Chalice at 2 is unacceptable for this deck. Chalice is a great card in normal stax, but there are several 1-casters that really could belong in the deck that have little or no synergy with chalice. Choosing whether to run chalice will change this deck more than any other card. You don't run 3-sphere, and therefore the curve is very different, so think carefully. Stax can run Chalice because it runs a mana-curve that is very extreme and almost untouched by 3-sphere, however, this deck cannot do the same.

Without chalice, I would probably run this deck:


Lock Components// 12x
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Winter Orb

Beaters// 20x
4 Ornithopter --0cc, major affinity factor, flyer. Lackey. Better than Hoverguard.
4 Arcbound Worker --1cc artifacts are a must. High synergy.
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer --Abuses asymmetry very well and this deck needs a clock that isn't based on comboing out---this is your juggernaught.

Others// 7x
4 Aether Vial --plays well against control, and 1cc slot
3 Cranial Plating --takes up the 2cc slot, is a piece that you drop after sphere, lacks synergy in this deck, but is very powerful (even without double black to support instant equip)

Mana-Base// 21x
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
3 Glimmervoid -- exists to support a sideboard
4 Wasteland -- adds to the mana-denial element; this card is a must have in any stax variant.


SB:
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Pithing Needle
3 Leyline of the Void


The aggro matchup needs the most work. 4 Ghostly Prison replaces ToR's very nicely. StP is simply the best removal that I can think of using to answer Goblins early enough. Jitte is also an option, but it is very mana-intensive.

Overall, the deck needs to deny tempo by destabilizing the mana-base and creating mana inefficiency against low-CC curves. What can make the deck different from White Stax is that it abuses the affinity mechanic to have a much faster clock at the cost of a less consistent prison.

peace,
4eak

Quote:

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What role is this deck trying to play? This deck appears to be attempting to be an aggro workshop deck. Obviously, it wants to disrupt like stax, but it wants to win early.

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Exactly

Quote:

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I have a few questions: Why not just play stax? After all, this deck really lacks the game it needs against an aggro-heavy deck.

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Because stax is simply too slow in the current meta. It's a control deck that cannot fully control the game, and so when it succeeds in slowing down your opponent, it often loses before it can do anything about it due to the abundance of speed in the meta.

Quote:

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Is it really possible to build an accelerated mana-base without bastardizing it by removing the heart and soul of affinity: the artifact lands? How do you keep the early artifact count high enough to compensate for a lack of artifact lands?

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This deck plays an abundance of artifact lands. We don't need to bastardize it, there's really no reason to.

Quote:

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**A bunch of very intelligent and accurate observations**

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Quote:

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Sadly, non-creature spells are hurt by all 8 spheres, etc etc... Some cards just can't make the cut, Such as...
....
thoughtcast

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Thoughtcast has affinity. You stated yourself that this is one of the key mechanics that breaks spheres. Its a mini recall, and this deck lacks any other kind of draw. You can't play confidant any more, obviously; I'd say thoughtcast is pretty crucial.

Quote:

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In addition, while 8 spheres and 4 orbs are automatic includes, the inclusion of Chalice is a difficult choice. Chalice is excellent in combo matches and fairly amazing set at 1 against some decks. Chalice at 2 is unacceptable for this deck. Chalice is a great card in normal stax, but there are several 1-casters that really could belong in the deck that have little or no synergy with chalice. Choosing whether to run chalice will change this deck more than any other card. You don't run 3-sphere, and therefore the curve is very different, so think carefully. Stax can run Chalice because it runs a mana-curve that is very extreme and almost untouched by 3-sphere, however, this deck cannot do the same.

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You forget that in the current meta, there are VERY few decks, if any at all, that are untouched by a chalice for 0 or for 1. Yes, this deck cannot play chalice for 2. However, you included very questionable 1-drops in place of chalice, which I will get to later. I cannot see playing this deck in it's more controlling roll without chalice. It just flat out wins against a lot of combo, greatly debilitates most control / aggro control, turn 1 chalice for 1 destroys a lot of aggro. It's such a good card in the current meta and this deck can break it.

As for your list. You run Worker and Vial. Vial is just weak in this deck now. You run a grand total of of 12 creatures you can use it with, and they all have a different mana cost. It is a bad card in this deck and there is no excuse for running it. Control can't worry about countering them, because you're dropping spheres and chalice, and if they dont counter those
, they dont have the mana / resources to do anything about your creatures.
And worker is just flat out bad. If you look at my list, there is not a single creature that isn't free, a flyer, or ravager. Worker doesn't fit any of these. He's just a weak 1/1, if he dies he gives you a 1/3 thopter or a double pump on a ravager. Both of these are simply too slow.

And finally, I think 4 plating is a must. More than 1 is amazing, and I don't see how it's anti-synergistic with the deck at all. It gets affected by orbs, sure, but your WHOLE DECK is artifacts. How can you not play this guy; he says "2 (or 3 or 4) mana: Take care of me in 1 turn or I win". Seems good.

Here's my take on the deck:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Thorn of Amethyst

4x Cranial Plating

4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Ornithopter
4x Somber Hoverguard

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
4x Seat of the Synod

4x Thoughtcast

I play 4 hooverguards, thoughtcast, enforcers and mites becaus I wanted to see how good this antisymmetry actually is when taken into the red zone.

I've only had a little trouble with casting the hooverguards and thoughtcasts because of the lack of blue mana sources, but even so they've been really great. Other than that I really like the chalice in here, Chalice on 1 is very strong against the meta, and since I don't play spells that cost 1 it really is asymmetric :)

The darksteel citadel and blinkmoth nexus can be easily replaced by the lands that give me some other colors depending what I'll be playing on my sideboard.

However an other problem that I've had is the damage I sometimes take from ancient tomb, and this really doesn't help the agro matchup...

Man lands + Plating seem good in a Prisonish affinity,no?

Yep, hence the 4 blinkmoth nexus in my list :D