The September 20th 2011 Banned / Restricted List Update Reaction Thread

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e161a_icon.jpg

This will likely be the link when it goes live... http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...y/feature/161a

So the announcement should go live in the next 4 hours. I guess we can safely assume Ponder is now banned in Modern from the graphic. I have the gut feeling that Legacy is gonna get some changes, and it's almost for sure that Modern is going to be turned upside down.

I just really hope that don't do anything stupid to Legacy. That said, from listening to everyone on this forum, as much as they complain about WotC I have to say, with the exception of the reasoning behind Mystical Tutor I pretty much agree with all the banning and unbannings and non-bannings (in the face of public outcry) they have made so far. I agree that Mystical Tutor was patently unfair and deserved to go at the time, but the reasoning they gave was arbitrary and they didn't even touch on the real reasons the card was broken, not the least of which was the tricks it let you run with your sideboard.

I think it's just time everyone admit that for better or worse WotC is a much better keeper of the Legacy banned list than anyone gives them credit for. Of course now that I said that watch them completely drop the ball on this, LOL.

Modern was such a bad format up until midnight tonight. Hopefully they found the antidote for shitty format but more likely they'll miss a few times before they get that all sorted out. I think banning Ponder is the smart play for nerfing Combo. Fair decks still have Preordain which is better than Ponder for them, and slightly combo has to use Preordain which is slightly worse for them and maybe Serum Visions if they want more than 4x filter, that should take a little of the wind out of their sails. I just wonder if anything from 12 post is going to hit the skids. I have to assume something else from combo is going to go, my guess is Rite of Flame. We'll see what happens in a couple hours.

**EDIT**

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News
September 20 2011 DCI Banned & Restricted List Announcement
Wizards of the Coast
Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Announcement Date: September 20, 2011
Effective Date: October 1, 2011
Magic Online Effective Date: October 12, 2011

Modern
Blazing Shoal is banned.
Cloudpost is banned.
Green Sun's Zenith is banned.
Ponder is banned.
Preordain is banned.
Rite of Flame is banned.

Extended
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is banned.
Mental Misstep is banned.
Ponder is banned.
Preordain is banned.
Stoneforge Mystic is banned.

Legacy
Mental Misstep is banned.

Vintage
Fact or Fiction is no longer restricted.

Scars of Mirrodin Block Constructed, Standard
No changes

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e161a_icon.jpg

I guess we can safely assume Ponder is now banned in Modern from the graphic.

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Its more likely that they un-restrict Ponder in Vintage. Link. Ponder does dig, but the issue isn't the digging power of Ponder, its the ultimate redundancy of a lot of these combos. I'm sure theres a thread in the Modern section of the forums where this discussion is going on...

Mental Misstep seems like the intuitive banning. Looking at the Hatfields' most recent article, it identifies the following as the major players in the metagame: Zoo, Merfolk, NO RUG, Stoneblade, and Hive Mind. With the exception of Zoo, all of the aforementioned run four Mental Misstep. Additionally, it has even been seen in some Zoo sideboards. Mental Misstep has shown up in Top 16s more than Brainstorm has (given that Merfolk does not typically play it) and probably more than Force of Will given that some of the NO RUG and Stoneblade decks do not play four copies of Force of Will.

My feelings regarding WotC's B&R management are not as positive as yours. I've argued numerous times on these threads that they ought to institute some sort of transparent and standardized process for managing the B&R list. Its bothersome to me that R&D tends to ban more by feel than by method. To be candid, I've become desensitized to the point that I no longer am surprised by anything R&D does anymore. I am more likely to cringe than be excited to 'navigate a new metagame' because of some random banning or unbanning.

Is it because Workshops are overpowered much?

Wizards still cares about Vintage?

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Wizards still cares about Vintage?

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lol. no it's probably banned in moder

Vintage is still a format?
Anyway, I can't wait to see the changes for Modern and Legacy. I'm really hoping for a ban on something from 12post just so I can feel like I won by selling my Vesuva at $23.
Also I still want to see Mind Twist unbanned.

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Originally Posted by Fossil4182

Its more likely that they un-restrict Ponder in Vintage. Link.

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Haha, wow I feel dumb now for not even thinking of that. You might be right, or it could even be both.

It just seems like Modern is the format everyone has their eye on now, I mean if it doesn't flip a 180 with this b&r the format is basically dead. It seems like they would put a Modern changed card on the link which is relevant to everyone who is on the fence or already plays Modern or plans on going to a Modern GP vs. the 500 people who care whether or not Ponder is restricted in Vintage.

I really hope brainstorm doesn't get the axe in legacy. I'd get ready for a flood of unbannings in modern as well. I'm hoping sfm and jace come off. Ponder should be unrestricted in vintage. As for banning ponder in modern, I guess it's fair since this knocks down combo consistency across the board. Combo has access to too many cantrips IMO. Aggro and control needs some space to breath.

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

I really hope brainstorm doesn't get the axe in legacy. I'd get ready for a flood of unbannings in modern as well. I'm hoping sfm and jace come off. Ponder should be unrestricted in vintage. As for banning ponder in modern, I guess it's fair since this knocks down combo consistency across the board. Combo has access to too many cantrips IMO. Aggro and control needs some space to breath.

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- They could reprint Force of Will for modern...

It's unlikely that a card being banned would have its art featured. That kind of feature is positive, not negative press: it's meant to excite rather than dismay.

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Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

It's unlikely that a card being banned would have its art featured. That kind of feature is positive, not negative press: it's meant to excite rather than dismay.

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Looks like someone forgot about Survival of the Fittest getting the axe while also having it's art shown.

It's likely Ponder will be banned in Modern because of its applications in all of the U/R combo decks.

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Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

It's unlikely that a card being banned would have its art featured. That kind of feature is positive, not negative press: it's meant to excite rather than dismay.

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Survival was featured as the art. It got banned.

You know, I've never once liked a deck that ran Ponder. Not "thought it was bad" not liked, but just like "I don't like your face" not liked. Therefore I'm going to hope, just as a means of Wizards trolling the shit out of us (And they'll do this - See Planeswalker Points), that they ban Ponder in all formats and that's the only change.

EDIT: Including Limited.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

You know, I've never once liked a deck that ran Ponder. Not "thought it was bad" not liked, but just like "I don't like your face" not liked. Therefore I'm going to hope, just as a means of Wizards trolling the shit out of us (And they'll do this - See Planeswalker Points), that they ban Ponder in all formats and that's the only change.

EDIT: Including Limited.

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Haha. Really what would make my day is if I opened up the B&R announcement in an hour and it says, "Extended is now banned as a format. Wizards will not longer sanction Extended tournaments." I would just be really pissed if a GP rolled up within 100 miles of me next year and it ended up being Extended since I would rather play Homelands sealed than have to put together and test Extended ever again.

If they don't explicitly ban Stoneforge Mystic and Jace the Mindsculptor in Extended this B&R announcement you can put money on never seeing another Extended GP/PT event ever again.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Looks like someone forgot about Survival of the Fittest getting the axe while also having it's art shown.

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More like someone didn't know because someone seldom pays attention to the pictures. Thanks for the correction.

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Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes

I would rather play Homelands sealed than have to put together and test Extended ever again.

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Dude, have you ever actually done Homelands limited? You don't understand the true nature of disappointment, until you try to draft/sealed that set. My play group did it as a joke about a year ago... it degenerated into us all drinking heavily due to how bad it was. One of the members ended up passing out in my bathroom because he drank so much due to the terribleness of it. So in summary, Homelands is terribad and drives decent players to the bottle. I guess Extended might do that too but to a lesser degree.

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

I really hope brainstorm doesn't get the axe in legacy. I'd get ready for a flood of unbannings in modern as well. I'm hoping sfm and jace come off. Ponder should be unrestricted in vintage. As for banning ponder in modern, I guess it's fair since this knocks down combo consistency across the board. Combo has access to too many cantrips IMO. Aggro and control needs some space to breath.

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Wait so.. You want Jace and Stoneforge back so you can just play Stoneblade in Modern, and want them to ban Ponder so the combo competition for said Stoneblade deck won't exist? Just what I was hoping for... another format to get bent over by the dynamic duo.

While I admit the format is too heavily combolicious, I really hope they have a more sensible approach to Modern's banned list instead of turning the format into another iteration of extended, legacy, and standard prior to the last b/r update. If those two stay on the banned list, fine, nerf combo. If they make combo unplayable and turn the format into Stoneblade vs. Stoneblade vs. Rogue aggro vs. Stoneblade vs. 12-post... fuck that format. I'd rather play the combo-licious format.

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Originally Posted by Sturtzilla

Dude, have you ever actually done Homelands limited? You don't understand the true nature of disappointment, until you try to draft/sealed that set. My play group did it as a joke about a year ago... it degenerated into us all drinking heavily due to how bad it was. One of the members ended up passing out in my bathroom because he drank so much due to the terribleness of it. So in summary, Homelands is terribad and drives decent players to the bottle. I guess Extended might do that too but to a lesser degree.

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Haha, nice.

I'm really hoping for a Mental Misstep banning tonight. Brainstorm being banned would be interesting, but I'm not sure how the format would react, probably poorly.

Holy shit.