[Report] Jack Elgin Would be Proud to Know...

... Gigapede kept me out of the Top 8.

Read on if you want to know how and why these mysterious events came to pass.

PART I

Up until last Wednesday, I had every intention of playing my “Vorosh” control deck (U/b/g Landstill with Counterbalance / Divining Top and maindeck Tarmogoyf) on Sunday’s Duel for Duals at the Batcave in Vancouver, Washington. Vorosh had been testing well against most of the things I expected to face and I’d been developing sideboard strategies for the deck since early May.

“Vorosh”
by Bardo

4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force Of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance

3 Engineered Explosives
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Smother
1 Crucible Of Worlds

4 Tarmogoyf

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Breeding Pool

Sideboard
4 Hydroblast
3 Engineered Plague
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip

But with a contingent of Team Unicorn making the trek from northern Virginia to the Pacific Northwest, a seemingly absurd yet awesome idea, and wanting to play a few games with these guys before the tournament, it seemed that a short-term change was in order.

On a lark, I put together 4-color Threshold for that purpose, starting Dave Elrod’s (Freakish777) test deck from the TES vs. FT Competition thread.

In the Elrod list, Counterbalance #4, Thoughtseize #4 and the random Pithing Needle struck me as “flexible,” so I flirted with a couple of changes to those cards -- messing around with Meddling Mage (bad), Dark Confidant (better), Pithing Needle X2 (meh), Stifle (ditto) and Engineered Explosives (sure).

On the train to work two days before the tournament, the idea to play Threshold instead of Vorosh struck me as a Really Good Idea. The relative merits:

Threshold
+ Swords to Plowshares, (maindeck) Thoughtseize, DAZE
+ Man, I love Daze
+ Easier for me to play on auto-pilot
- Haven’t really thought about sideboard strategies
- Practically zero recent experience with the deck (I haven’t played Threshold in about a year)
- Shakier manabase
- More likely to see “Thresh hate”

Vorosh
+ Favorable match-up vs. Threshold and aggro-control
+ Better mana
+ Cooler (to me, anyway)
+ Loads of recent experience (many, many recent practice games in the last month and recent-ish tournament experience)
+ Detailed sideboard guide written
- Requires more thought to play optimally; can’t be played in “auto-pilot” mode

Visualization and other mental exercises are all part of my pre-tournament preparation and the mental image of taking first place at the tournament came much easier with Threshold. Vorosh felt like the right choice if I wanted to make Top 8. But it’s not like I’m on the Pro Tour and need only four more points to make Level Five, you know?

On that basis I switched decks at the last minute. Since this was a very late change, I wouldn’t have the time to put together a sideboard guide for the deck and would have to improvise with my sideboarding between games more than I would like.

As for the list, I took the three flex slots and settled on double Spell Snare, which were strong all day long, and a singleton Engineered Explosives. Given the chance to play the deck again, I would drop the maindeck Explosives for Spell Snare #3 or Thoughtseize #4.

4-Color Threshold
by Bardo; et al.

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Snare

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Mystic Enforcer

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra

Sideboard
4 Hydroblast
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

In the sideboard, I would like to fit in Thoughtseize #4 (provided it didn’t make its way into the maindeck) and better mirror-match technology (maybe Threads of Disloyalty). If I was serious about gunning for Ichorid, things would need to change -- perhaps adding Wheel of Sun and Moon. Really though, you can’t beat ‘em all and you can’t carve out too much room in your sideboard for your bad match-ups before you starting giving up percentages against the things you’re already favored to beat.

As for its match-ups, Ichorid, Dragon Stompy and Aggro Loam are terrible; Goblins and Landstill are a fight, though certainly beatable; and combo and randomness are a cake-walk.

The Hydroblast in the sideboard are for any and all species of red deck (Goblins, Goyf Sligh, Burn, RDW-imports); the Plagues are gold against various tribal decks (Goblins, Slivers, Elves, etc.); Extirpates are primarily for recursion-based decks (Loam, Ichorid, Survival, etc.) combo and control decks; with the Needles, Grips and EE serving as general utility.

Sadly, I never got the chance to hang-out with the out-of-towners before the tournament. On the night before the tournament, I took my 4-year old twin girls on a wild goose hunt to find Kiki’s Delivery Service, before we settled on watching Laputa (Castle in the Sky). After they crashed, I was up watching Anne Hathaway in Havoc until about 1:30 AM. The movie was crap, but she looked fine.

Sunday; June 29, 2008 -- Vancouver, Washington

Confession time: “T is for Tool” (Mike) is my favorite moderator on this site. So meeting him 2,500 miles from his home of Lexington, Kentucky was awesome. It’s funny, the mental images you have of people you know only through their online personas. Mike is quieter, more reserved and taller than I imagined. The Hatfields (Obfuscate Freely and Mad Zur), on the other hand, were quite a bit shorter than expected. Anwar (AnwarA101) actually has a very nice smile and I learned Dave Price (Quicksliver) does, in fact, have an unusual affinity for unicorns. Standing about five yards away from some random Type 2 match, I overheard Dave mutter under his breath “Is that a unicorn?” Referring, I would later find out, to Ronom Unicorn. When I asked him about this, he apologetically said he has “Uni-dar,” which is apparently some kind of radar for all things unicorn. People are weird.

MTS Crew, Pic 1:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...un08_MTS1a.jpg

MTS Crew, Pic 2:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...Jun08_MTS2.jpg

I challenged Anwar to a game of Street Fighter II (circa 1992), since the Batcave recently acquired an arcade-version, but we weren’t able to play it out.

Forty-seven people showed, making this a record Legacy tournament in the Pacific Northwest! Massive pre-props-section-props to Chris Lennon for the turn-out.

Round 1: Dan with U/G/b Threshold

My round one opponent looks really familiar, but I’m struggling to place when an where I know him from.

Game 1
After I lose the die roll, our first game plays out typical for both sides: do some Pondering, Brainstorming, Daze stuff, etc. I’m slowly falling behind, but mustering a decent defense. To save time for games 2 and 3, I scoop when the writing is eventually on the wall: opposing Counterbalance, Top and Dark Confidant, while our ground-pounders look across the table at each other.

Sideboarding: Out, Daze; in, EE and some Extirpates.

Game 2
In our second game, I Spell Snare his first Tarmogoyf and Extirpate the rest, while two of mine go the distance.

Game 3
In game three, my eyes focus on my opponent’s basic Islands and I think “cool.” They were foreign and I didn’t recognize the edition. Then it hits me: “this is the guy I played in my first round at a GPT (Philly),” the first Legacy tournament I played in nearly three years ago. In one of our games nigh-three years ago, Dan remarked on my “good taste” (referring to my APAC Island), gesturing to his APAC Swamp. While we both went on to the Top 8, I remember losing a heart-breaker to his mono-black aggro deck with my dodgy U/W Fish-like piece of trash. Three years later and, well, you know what they say about Payback. GIVE ME BACK MY SON!!!!

Oh wait, that was Ransom. No matter.

As for the game, it’s ugly for him. Thoughtseize and double Ponder, clear the way and keep the goods flowing while a single Nimble Mongoose inflicts a whopping 18 points of damage.

1-0

Round 2: Shane with U/w/g CounterSliver

Game 1
Okay, this game is the low-point of the whole day for me. In the last turn of the game, with him at 1 life, me at 16, my 3/3 Mongoose and 4/5 Tarmogoyf are ready to go in for the kill. I’m holding a Force and a land in hand. All I need to do is keep turning my guys sideways and I have the game put away. I’m really stoked about the situation. My enthusiasm gets the better of me when I replay my Top and pay another mana and spin it to look at the top three cards of my library. Like an idiot, I pick up my three Top cards with my left and bring them next to my two cards in hand, held in my right hand. My opponent calls “Judge!”

I say, “What?” My opponents says I put the Top cards in my hand. I say, “No, these are my Top card” [holds out three cards in my left hand], “this is my hand” [holds out two cards in right hand]. The cards never directly came into contact with each other and never “mingled,” but I can see how it might have looked that way from his side of the table. And indeed, if I was a cheating scumbag, and wanted to screw myself out of a game that I could not have otherwise possibly lost, I could have used some sleight of hand trick to switch cards between my left and right hand. I’m given a game loss for drawing extra cards, since there were no witnesses watching to corroborate what happened.

To make matters worse, while we’re sideboarding, he goes on to tell me his many tales of woe and all of the times he’s been lawyered into game losses. Um, thanks.

Sideboarding: Out, Daze; in, Engineered Plagues and Explosives.

Game 2
Game two goes quickly, as a Plague on “slivers” keeps his guy small while a Tarmogoyf beats him silly (curiously, I wrote as “Tarmogod” in my notes; that makes me smile).

Game 3
My notes for this game read: “game 3 doesn’t come together.” I’m not sure what happened, but I think it had something to do with a Crystalline and one too many Muscle Sliver effects. So it goes.

1-1

Round 3: Scott with mono-red Burn

My third round opponent was clearly the nicest guy I played all day. Quick wit, bright, good grasp of the rules and timing; though, he was playing Burn, so you never know.

Public Service Announcement: To anyone considering taking a Burn deck to a tournament, let me tell you about this card they printed in Coldsnap. It’s called “Counterbalance” and the art looks fantastic in foil.

Game 1
My notes for this game read: “’Combo’ed’ me from 6 with lethal dmg on board; Chain Lightning x2, Fireblast x2, last one got me.”

Sideboarding: Out, Swords to Plowshares; In, Hydroblasts.

Game 2
Counterbalance / Top with Hydroblast back-up make this a somewhat long but inevitable game. He tries to go for it, gets me down to 2 life, but can’t punch through my wall of counters.

A weird game note: “Spell Snare es muy bueño.”

Game 3
Our last game goes much quicker and Counterbalance keeps my life at a healthy 16 until the end. I make a curious play in casting an un-threshed Enforcer, which supported by a 4/5 Goyf, is a quick enough clock.

2-1

During the hour-long lunch break, I drive the Hatfields and T is for Tool to a nearby Burgerville. They’re a small, regional chain that has superb locally-sourced food. We chat about the game, road-trips, the Q&A forum, notable posters and a few other things before heading back.

PART II

Round 4: Kevin with U/G/r/w Threshold

The recreational pain-killers I took at the beginning of the tournament are really kicking in around this point and I make some of the sloppiest technical plays that I can recall all day. But in the way that John Locke can’t die on Lost, the universe will always bend probability and space/time to make sure that I am the victor in all Threshold mirror-matches.

Game 1
Not much I recall about this game. My sole note: “5/6 Goyf, W[in].”

Sideboarding: Same as before.

Game 2
Given my life tally, it appears that one or two Mongeese got me from 17 to -1.

Game 3
Man, my head was just screwed on backwards this game. “The dragon was signing,” the Good Doctor (HST) would say. I remember missing two consecutive Counterbalance triggers and having a generalized sense of fear and confusion. It looks like double-Goyf got him and I never got below 18. I’m not sure what happened here, but I’ll bet it didn’t look pretty for me.

3-1

Throughout the tournament, Anwar and I discussed all matters Magical. We talked about the SCG column, SFII, Ichorid, Thresh, etc. Definitely, a Good Man. His in-game demeanor is very focused and serious, but don’t let his SCG picture fool you, he actually has a very charming smile; except when he’s losing, then he doesn’t smile so much.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...days/Anwar.jpg

Note to Anwar: this has to be better than your SCG pic. Free free to use it.

Round 5: Wes with U/R Painter Combo

In the way that I was a bit out of my head and generally out of whack in the previous match, I experienced a profound preternatural focus in Round 5. It’s a shame it didn’t last longer, since the match was over in less than fifteen minutes.

Game 1
I lose the die roll, but our first game was decided in the first couple of turns.

Him (Turn 1): Volcanic Island, Divining Top, go.
Me (Turn 2): Polluted Delta, go.
Him (Turn 3): Land, Counterbalance.
Me: Crack fetchland, Underground Sea, Spell Snare.
Him: Force of Will.
Me: Daze.
Me (Turn 3): Thoughtseize.

That’s hard to recover from and double Tarmogoyfs end the game quickly.

Sideboarding: Out, Enforcers, Swords to Plowshares; In, Needles and Grips.
Moving the StPs to the board was an experiment that paid off fine.

Game 2
Our last game of the match is much slower paced, unlike the blood bath in the previous game. A Painter’s Servant hits me a couple of times and I remark on his “solid 20 turn clock.” He says, “that’s funny,” but he wasn’t laughing...

Grips, Thoughtseize and counters disrupt any attempt of his to get his game together and double Mongeese get him in the end.

At 4-1, I’m hoping to ID my way into the Top 8, but of all the other 4-1s, I have the worst tie-breakers and am forced to play Round 6 out.

Round 6: Brian with Legacy ‘Next Level Blue’

It’s right about the time that I lost the die roll that I also start losing the feeling. Magic is a game of strategy and tactics, but it’s also a game of will-power, subtlety, bluffing, mental endurance and confidence. I guess you could say that I just wasn’t in the zone. After the fact, looking at my opponent’s decklist, I was clearly “not favored,” though I didn’t know that at the time.

Game 1
I our first game, I’m fighting tooth and nail and am able to get him down to 7 life before I start drawing land after land after land, etc. as he drops Vedalken Shackles to steal my Goyf, drops his own and the resolves Gigapede. I’m like, “What the hell?” It’s been a while, but Gigapede is a beating.

Sideboarding: Out Swords to Plowshares; In, Exiripate, Krosan Grip.

Game 2
A turn one Thoughtseize reveals Gigapede, Brainstorm, Krosan Grip and three lands. He either took a mulligan or I missed writing card #7 down. Obviously, I take the Brainstorm (the best card in Legacy, IMO) and hope to keep him off the mana he needs for Gigapede.

I juggle some cards to get my Mongoose to 3/3, Grip a Top and attack for the victory.

Game 3
After I mulligan to 6, Brian leads with a turn-1 Top. Taking a bit of risk, I Force of Will the Top, pitching a Force, and Extirpating his Tops a couple of turns later.

Sadly, a Counterbalance and some “CB luck” disrupts my plan long enough while a Gigapede finishes me again. I think Jack Elgin would be proud to know Gigapede kept me out of the Top 8.

4-2

And that was that. I hung around, got a gin & tonic from across the street, watched the quarter and semi-finals, said my farewells and eventually head out. It’d been a long day, and I felt too much like an old man to go out for dinner and stuff with everyone. Besides, watching Pinder sing Rick Astley “Never Gonna Give You Up” is actually on my list of Things That I Don’t Want to Ever Happen in My Life. Getting Rickrolled on the internet is one thing, but an entirely different animal in real life.

MTS Crew, Pic 3:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...Jun08_MTS3.jpg

Stützen
+ Chris Lennon (Volt), see above
+ All of the out-of-towners who went way out of their way to make this thing and for being cool (Krieger, Tool, the Jesse and Alix Hatfield, Dave Price and Anwar).
+ Thoughtseize
+ Wall-E. Man, I loved this movie. The last third and the whole Hollywood Ending sucked painfully; but the first forty minutes or so were just gorgeous.
+ Awesome sunset. Pics below from my drive home from the tournament.

Nachlässig
- Mel Gibson.

On the way home from the tournament. Picture taken from the parking lot of a Goodwill store, trying to drop off a bunch of crap that was in my trunk. (No filters or image mods. It's just the way it looked)
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...08_Sunset1.jpg

From across the street of my house after getting home. (Ditto.)
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...08_Sunset2.jpg

Teh Bardö, plus kids (with face-paint) and the lady (wtf am I look at? No idea.):

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...nd_fam2006.jpg

Selah.

frowns.

(ps play vorosh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

also that Shane kid deserves a beating, and if you actually only had two cards in hand while using Top, the judge fucked it up too, not to mention the lack of an actual card count and, you know, the whole "let's take your opponent's word for the game loss"

(had I shown up I probably would've been DQ'd by this point I'm tilting just reading the report.)

I spent a lot of time making this a fun and enjoyable report and don't want the thread to get too off-track about the Round 2 thing. In fact, I considered yanking it, because it seems like the sort of thing that just gets people worked up.

In the end, it's what happened. Let's leave it at that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

After they crashed, I was up watching Anne Hathaway in Havoc until about 1:30 AM. The movie was crap, but she looked fine.

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It's true. And she has boob scenes, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Besides, watching Pinder sing Rick Astley “Never Gonna Give You Up” is actually on my list of Things That I Don’t Want to Ever Happen in My Life. Getting Rickrolled on the internet is one thing, but an entirely different animal in real life.

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It's a pity, because I pulled off some sweet Astley-brand dance moves, too. I promise to abstain from karaoke if in the future we ever end up drinking together (unless they have Final Countdown. I can only make so many promises, yeah?).

On topic (sort of), I did play Vorosh at the DLD (albeit a slightly tweaked list with Shackles in for Smother and Smother in the board), and it treated me pretty well. I piloted it to a dismal 2-3 finish, but that was more due to my inexperience piloting the deck combined with some plain old bad luck (2nd turn choke into 3rd turn Tangle Wire when you mull to six with no Force is a beating). Throughout a lot of the games I played, I felt like a little kid weilding a sledgehammer. Definitely powerful, but requires more finesse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

GIVE ME BACK MY SON!!!!

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That's awesome. Sorry about the finish, dude. Gigapede is pretty unexpected.

Gary Sinise FTW.


That is all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Di

Gary Sinise FTW.


That is all.

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From IMDB:

Detective Jimmy Shaker: We do what you say, and we go to the bank. Anything goes wrong, you're gonna turn around and I'll be gone. Okay. And if that happens, from this day on, any time your kid leaves this house to go to school, go play, see a friend, to buy a fuckin' comic book, you're gonna have to ask yourself: Is today... Jimmy Shaker day?"

By the way, was Wall-E a rip-off of Short Circuit? He seems so, even though the stories are way different...

Quote:

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By the way, was Wall-E a rip-off of Short Circuit?

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He definitely looks a bit like the little dude in Short Circuit, but, no, nothing like that movie.

Steve Guttenberg FTL.

.

Great report. Too bad you lost the last game (and the Countersliver one); would've been sweet to read of the Top 8. Still, a solid run and a guaranteed Bardo-level report.

You had me at "Jack Elgin".

WALL-E was fantastic. The ending didn't suck. You suck. Your whole paradigm sucks. Except the part that liked most of WALL-E.

P.S. Wine ftw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

I challenged Anwar to a game of Street Fighter II (circa 1992), since the Batcave recently acquired an arcade-version, but we weren’t able to play it out.

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This was the worst part of the tournament. I don't think I realized when you left the tournament. I guess it was after top8 or top4, because I remember you taking pictures. It would have been great to play against you. I think I had some time in rounds 5 and 6 (ID both rounds), but you were busy playing. Unfortunate that we didn't get to play. I always love playing that game especially against people who played in the early 90s because they remember what it was like playing at the arcade when they still existed (I guess they still exist, but for the most part they seem to be a relic of an era gone by).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

During the hour-long lunch break, I drive the Hatfields and T is for Tool to a nearby Burgerville. They’re a small, regional chain that has superb locally-sourced food. We chat about the game, road-trips, the Q&A forum, notable posters and a few other things before heading back.

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I missed out on this as well. I might have been at the bar across the street getting food when this happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Throughout the tournament, Anwar and I discussed all matters Magical. We talked about the SCG column, SFII, Ichorid, Thresh, etc. Definitely, a Good Man. His in-game demeanor is very focused and serious, but don’t let his SCG picture fool you, he actually has a very charming smile; except when he’s losing, then he doesn’t smile so much.

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Thank you for the compliments. I enjoyed the conversations as well. I think we have plenty of pictures of me both at the event and on the road trip so it should be easy to swap out my SCG picture. Any suggestions?

Finally, as someone whose spent plenty of time playing black-based disruption please play 4 Thoughtseize in the main deck. Disruption is better the earlier you play it and having 4 makes that more likely. It is just that simple. Turn 1 Thoughtseize is one of the best plays in Legacy right now.

Surprisingly (?), Mystic Enforcer was shit all day. Never won a match (except for that game vs. Burn, which was very much wtf re: Enforcer). Anyway, yeah on the 4x Thoughtseize: fantastic all day and an excellent addition to the deck. Something like:

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Counterbalance
3 Spell Snare

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Mystic Enforcer

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volt

2) Bardo has a man-crush on Anwar.

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Little bit. Little bit. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spatula

WALL-E was fantastic. The ending didn't suck. You suck. Your whole paradigm sucks. Except the part that liked most of WALL-E.

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Matt, I'm going to think about this and post later. In fact, I'll probably start a Wall-E thread in Mish-Mash.

Where are the pictures you promised?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Where are the pictures you promised?

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Yeah, I need to find a way to get them off the camera. The cable coming out of this Mac isn't doing the job. Thanks for the reminder

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Yeah, I need to find a way to get them off the camera. The cable coming out of this Mac isn't doing the job. Thanks for the reminder

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No problem :smile: .

Pics added.

Edit - And more.

WHAT THE SHIT WHEN DID BRET SHAVE HIS HEAD?!?!?!?!

(sentence in not caps to avoid that filter.)

(people need to suck it up and build decks with 26 lands and a bunch of spells that skullfuck all these stupid decks with creatures.)

(IBA: it doesn't count unless you're playing islands too)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frogboy

WHAT THE SHIT WHEN DID BRET SHAVE HIS HEAD?!?!?!?!

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About 2-3 months ago, IIRC. It was about the time he realized he was already swiftly approaching bald, and started reading up on The Game. I did a similar thing, but cut mine back to a half-hawk, rather than a full on shave. The ponytail had been around for about 7+ years, decided it was time to retire it for now. Summer is too fucking hot anyway.

EDIT: Oh, and props on the bubble-names Bardo. Between swapping with real name and source names, if I weren't a regular I'd wonder if Mad Zur was really his name :D

That is... not how I was picturing Volt. You know, Monty Burns avatar and all.

T is for Tool looks very German. Ob_Freely too, but mostly it's the clothing.

DeathwingZERO I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley.

And Krieger... ouch. Talk about a bad moment to get caught on camera.

Other than that, good report, and a good read. Now, the Magical question: am I correct in understanding that you disagree that 5C Manabase > 4C Manabase, and if so, why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo, but I'm way too lazy to scroll back up there and actually hit the quote button

“Spell Snare es muy bueño.”

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Bueno will do. Bueño would be pronounced like "bwen-yo" as opposed to "Bwen-oh". It's all about the tilde.

Solid report. I'm disappointed you didn't rock out the Vrosh-still, though. I find Thresh so boring a deck to play (or sit down against). Sucks that you got me'd in round two (but I suppose you'd prefer we left it at that), and didn't beat NLB.

Which, upon looking at it, could be like "new lonelybaritone" or something. Hmmm.

Pictures made this shit roxx0rz my boxx0rz (although I sleep naked and am even now lounging, as god made me, in my room recounting your magical endeavors. Good job, dude.

Quote:

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am I correct in understanding that you disagree that 5C Manabase > 4C Manabase, and if so, why?

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Spell-wise, the 5c deck is 4c maindeck, with things like Pyroclasm, Ancient Grudge and REB in the board, right?

If so, I don't see how mucking up your already shifty mana to run City of Brass is worth it; nor do I see how it makes any of your bad match-ups any better. Vs. Goblins, + 4x BEB, +3/4 Plague; - 3 CB, -3 Spell Snare, -1/2 FoW/Daze should be enough.

Ancient Grudge would be good against Dragon Stompy (which no one plays out here anyway), but it seems like that deck would just prey on a 5-color, no basic manabase; so basically, just as bad.

So, what am I missing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

So, what am I missing?

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Colour consistency and resilience to LD effects. I gave up on full 4C (full = W and B for cards I want early like Swords and 'Seize) because it was too easy to cut me away from either Swords or creatures when I needed three separate splashes, but Cities of Brass help a lot with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Spell-wise, the 5c deck is 4c maindeck, with things like Pyroclasm, Ancient Grudge and REB in the board, right?

If so, I don't see how mucking up your already shifty mana to run City of Brass is worth it; nor do I see how it makes any of your bad match-ups any better. Vs. Goblins, + 4x BEB, +3/4 Plague; - 3 CB, -3 Spell Snare, -1/2 FoW/Daze should be enough.

Ancient Grudge would be good against Dragon Stompy (which no one plays out here anyway), but it seems like that deck would just prey on a 5-color, no basic manabase; so basically, just as bad.

So, what am I missing?

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City of Brass actually helps your manabase as it produces all 5 colors in one land. When you play 4 colors but each land produces 2 colors you need 3 lands out to have access to all colors that isn't true with City of Brass. Since all your lands can be wastelanded, affected by moon effects, and generally suspectable to all forms of land destruction how is a dual land better than City of Brass?

Only in the self-inflicted damage sense. I'm sure the life-loss is fine with 1 out, it's mainly if you're relying on multiples to play your game. But consistency may compensate for the pain you're taking, so maybe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nihil

it was too easy to cut me away from either Swords or creatures when I needed three separate splashes, but Cities of Brass help a lot with that.

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List (with sideboard)?

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Originally Posted by Bardo

List (with sideboard)?

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As it was before I dropped the deck, around the beginning of this year:

// Lands
4 [PR] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [PR] Underground Sea
4 [PR] Tropical Island

// Creatures
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [OD] Mystic Enforcer

// Spells
4 [NE] Daze
4 [PR] Force of Will
4 [PR] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
3 [FD] Serum Visions
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
SB: 1 [b] Control Magic

(Today I'd play eight fetches, btw)

As you can see, I used Dark Confidant over Thoughtseize, which actually makes thing better since it means I never have to fetch Underground Sea on turn 1 (except post-side, where TS coming in usually means I don't need immediate removal). The Serum Visions were added late in an attempt to stabilize the deck (over Portents because I wanted to use them to search for lands), but they only mildly helped as a Wasteland/Vindicate/Stifle still meant a Time Walk as I searched for a colour replacement.

The 5C list which I tried out was the Hatfield one (-1 FoF +1 Portent), and I found it much more stable: against denial I'd usually keep a City in hand and play it when the dual I needed got destroyed.

Bardo, your wife is far, far too good looking for you. Hopefully your children take after her, and not at all like you.

Guy in Round 2 did what he had to do because that was his only out and he got there in a questionable ruling. Don't do something like that again with your cards - you gave the guy the only out he had remaining.

....

But Anwar is still sexier....

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i.../DSCF2567a.jpg

I did laugh :)

congratulation !

Robert

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Originally Posted by Parcher

But Anwar is still sexier....

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i.../DSCF2567a.jpg

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy5iQubfV5s

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Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges

WALL-E was fantastic. The ending didn't suck. You suck. Your whole paradigm sucks. Except the part that liked most of WALL-E.

P.S. Wine ftw.

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You gotta love a movie where the two romantic leads have just one line each the whole movie, repeated endlessly, and it's the other lead's name used with numerous different inflections. And no I'm not being facetious here. Wall-E is a great movie.

I've avoided this thread like the plague since it saw the Elgin keyword in the title.

It was great meeting Dan in person despite getting Jander'd by Zilla and Frogboy. He didn't realize who I was initially, and I had to strongly resist the impulse to give out another Sourcer name (Bovinious sprang to mind).

Quote:

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Laputa (Castle in the Sky)

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If only that movie was Spanish.

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T is for Tool looks very German. Ob_Freely too, but mostly it's the clothing.

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Thanks? More importantly, how did you know we had matching thongs?

I have to politely request that nobody be allowed to copy and paste that Anwar photo any more. I'm getting nauseous, you bazturd just browsing.

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Originally Posted by Finn

I have to politely request that nobody be allowed to copy and paste that Anwar photo any more. I'm getting nautious just browsing.

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So "nautious" that you're misspelling nauseous?

I think he misspelled Nautilus...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...3/notfunny.jpg