[Deck] 8 Ball (8 Sphere Affinity)

Updated 8-8-08
In the vial affinity thread there has been alot of talk about 8 sphere affinity. 8 Sphere affinity is a build of affinity that tries to abuse the spheres (sphere of resistance and thorn of amethyst) with the use of cards with affinity for artifacts. After seeing some basic lists I started playing with the deck and eventually came to this list:

3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
3 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [10E] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial

Updated List
// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Winter Orb

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [SH] Fling
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt



Matchups:

SI- 80-20 in our favor because they don't have an answear to the spheres.
Spring Tide- 70-30 FOW and Remand Helps but its not nearly enough.

(These are two decks that I own so its easy to test them.) This saturday I will be doing some MWS testing.

8-8-08 Played Against Meathooks 2-0

8-8-08 Played Against GWB Sui 2-1 (two spheres and a winter orb is a fun lock)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fons

SI- 80-20 in our favor because they don't have an answear to the spheres.
Spring Tide- 70-30 FOW and Remand Helps but its not nearly enough.

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You haven't tested this very much, have you? There's no way a deck without blue can boast and 80-20 match up against against SI. Did you test against someone who knows how to play SI? Were you always on the play? The same goes for Spring Tide.

I would just mull til i had a first or second turn sphere and hope they didn't go off turn 1.

Why not add a chalice of the void while you're at it instead of that sucky Disciple? I really hate it, as you have no sacrifice outlet other than Arcbound Ravager. You will rarely have that many artifacts to make it dangerous for the opponent to activate deed.

Changes I'd make:

+4 Chalice of the Void
+4 City of Traitors

-4 Disciple of the Vault
-4 Vault of Whispers

This decreases your artifact count, but gives you needed explosiveness. It's actually the same; Adding one more mana every time you tap - or increasing affinity count and tapping for one. Oh, and City doesn't get smacked by deed.

EDIT: For people who might like to ask, then no, it isn't antisynergistic to run chalice where it should be played at 1 in the same deck as Æther Vial. Really, it hurts so small parts of your deck. 4/60 cards. That is 6,67% of your deck. I really think that adding chalice is worth the effort. Chalice helps against combo, thresh, and bla. bla. bla...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willoe

This decreases your artifact count

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Actually it doesn't.

You're right, it doesn't. What I really meant was that it decreases your artifact land count. And with two artifact lands in play, your affinity virtually goes down by 2, if you can follow me.

The only problem with cutting disciple is that it adds random wins to the deck.
I would also have to cut aether vial.

I've been testing this deck to. And with the limited testing i've been doing I came to the conclusion that this deck absolutely needs Aether Vial.
Vial helps you play around your own spheres + it dodges counters.
I also really believe that this deck lacks wasteland. I've been able to keep players from playing spells with double sphere followed by wasteland.

I would probably do something like this:
-3 Blinkmoth Nexus
-2 glimmervoid

+4 Wasteland
+1 Ancient Tomb (turn one ravager/sphere/thorn seems more plausible with this in your hand).

I'll begin testing this idea is so awesome it absolutely blew me away when I saw it mentioned here on the source. An Affinity deck with disruption for combo before sideboarding.

And post board you would have cards like chalice/needle/crypt.. Seems pretty strong to me.

What if we take ornithopter out for winter orb?

Glimmervoid definitly has to stay, due to the fact that goblins is a bad matchup so engineered plague is a good friend and more blue lands the better.

Sample List

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Winter Orb

What happens when the opponent plays a Tarmogoyf, or isn't playing a control deck, but rather an aggro deck...

I'd make the mainboard focus on beating control and combo (meaning also Dark Confidant mainboard over Thoughtcast), and I'd try to have the sideboard transform you into a variation of Affinity that can compete/stomp normal aggro and fast decks. I'd also like to see 1-2x City of Traitors, or 3-4x Lotus Petal to ensure a turn 1 Sphere/Thorn/Orb.

How does this do against 3sphere stompy decks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fons

What if we take ornithopter out for winter orb?

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Considering how Fetchland-heavy the meta is, wouldn't be combining Winter Orb + Ankh of Mishra (plus some Thorns/Spheres) along with ways to deal fast damage (e.g. Disciple) fun?

The problem is finding room for the stuff that actually hits the red zone.

Engineered Plague Fixes the Goblin Matchup.
3sphere builds in theory shouldn't be hard due to the fact that do not play alot of lands so wasteland should really help there. Making Chrome Mox actually cost mana will also hurt them.

Propaganda + Winter Orb might be a good way to stall aggro until we can either fly over them or ping them to death.

Fling could also be in the board to fix aggro just change the MD Citidels to Great Furnaces.

Meekstone could also help as none of our creatures are big until plating equips them.

Its feels weird to suggest Meekstone and Propaganda in affinity.

Is the Creature count to low now?
Is this turning into to much of a control/lock deck?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fons

Is this turning into to much of a control/lock deck?

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Is that really a bad thing? Aggro Affinity hasn't exactly taken legacy by storm. The more controllish the better I would think.

Amp up the number of artifact control cards as high as feasible (yes do run Winter Orb), and run strong affinity based creatures, and you're golden.

Alright Ive been playing around with this deck for a while as kind of a pet project, and this is the list I've settled on for now.

// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Glimmervoid

// Creatures
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Somber Hoverguard
1 Myr Enforcer

// Spells
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb

// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Propaganda
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague

As Clark said, I think that the more controlish form this deck has taken is a good thing. Aggro Affinity is just not as fast as goblins without as good card advantage, and doesn't play enough control to make up for it. The above list plays basically overpowered one-sided control cards.
Chalice is absolutely godly in the meta right now, its just hard to find a home for because most of the time, if a deck can play it effectively for 1, the deck is too slow and ends up being bad. Winter orb, pretty much same thing; it's not an insta-gg like Chalice is in some matchups but it slows them down rediculously. With affinity, your abundance of 2lands, and being able to spend 3 or 4 mana making a 2378469285/2 flyer (hovergaurd or thopter with a plating), It doesnt hurt you much.
Basically the deck is a stax-esque, except it's able to switch rolls instantly and swing for lethal damage in a couple turns. The typical game is spending turns 1-4 or 5 playing lock peices and slowing your opponent down, then spend a few turns beating their faces in with flyers / huge ravagers / whatever. However, the deck obviously has its problems. It has a tough time dealing with more than one resolved early beater. If you can slow them down so that they're only swinging with a goyf or a few goblins or whatever by turn 4 or 5 or so, Its no big deal because you 're going to kill them first. But if they get a turn 2 goyf followed by another or an abundance of removal for your fatties you end up losing the race due to no direct removal. It almost makes me want to play something like Propoganda MD, but I dont think that's the right choice.
Some people may o_0 at the random enforcer or the 7 2lands. Basically, I ended up with a flex slot MD, and I stuck enforcer in there because late game when you're in topdeck mode, you're looking for threats that you can actually land with all the spheres out. Enforcer has filled this roll pretty nicely. Also, 4 Tombs just hurts too much and too often I have lost because of taking 8 or so damage off them and barely not being able to 'stabilize' (not really what this deck does, but as accurate a word as I can come up with).
Also, as to the lack of Disciple and Vial. All too often, in this list, Vial is completely dead as you sit with a hovergaurd and frogmite in your hand. And you love playing chalice for 1. Its cool in the old vial affinity list and in the more aggressive 8sphere lists but it just doesn't fit here. And Disciple... ah disciple. He's a tricky dude, and does randomly win you games. But all too often, he's a completely dead draw, or ends up just being win more. Every card in this deck serves an explicit purpose and I just cant find room for such an inconsistent card.
Basically, I honestly think this deck has potential, but it has some problems that need smoothing out, whether it be by tuning or skill in playing, both of which I will be working on. So, any help is appreciated ^_^

What role is this deck trying to play?

This deck appears to be attempting to be an aggro workshop deck. Obviously, it wants to disrupt like stax, but it wants to win early.

I have a few questions:

Why not just play stax? After all, this deck really lacks the game it needs against an aggro-heavy deck.

Is it really worth having a stax deck without abusing 3-sphere and CoW?

Is it really possible to build an accelerated mana-base without bastardizing it by removing the heart and soul of affinity: the artifact lands? How do you keep the early artifact count high enough to compensate for a lack of artifact lands?

What non-creature spells must be cut and why?

Here is what I like about the idea:

I find this deck can break the symmetry of winter orb and spheres in ways that other decks simply can't, including stax. If this deck is to amount to anything different than watered-down stax, then it needs to break the symmetry of orb and spheres.

First, for the winter orb, affinity is one of the few decks that can almost fully function off 1 or 2 lands for the entire game. Orb is game breaking against control decks, often timewalking you several times. But, it doesn't do enough against a deck like goblins (a bad matchup). Propaganda is a good answer though! Also, should relic barrier be considered for end step pwnage?

Sphere plays a fundamental role in universally slowing all decks, and because of the affinity mechanic, this deck is in a position to break the symmetry. To make the most use of this we need to run a more stax-like manabase to even effectively get them into play, but also run enough artifacts to abuse affinity mechanics (including the artifact land base).

Also, we have to remember this deck can't be normal affinity. Aggressive cards that would normally fit the archetype simply don't fit the role of this deck. Drop disruption, break the symmetry by casting undercosted creatures, and win before they can recover. This is what stax-affinity deck must do.

Sadly, non-creature spells are hurt by all 8 spheres. In aggro-affinity, non-creature spells generally exist to make affinity an aggro-combo deck with huge consistency and explosive comboliciousness. This isn't an aggro-combo deck, and so we should definitely question the inclusion of spells that aren't pushing the prison or breaking the symmetry of the prison. Some cards just can't make the cut in this deck that could be included in a normal affinity deck, such as:

Disciple
Thoughtcast
Shrapnel Blast
Fling
Dark Confidant
Blinkmoth Nexus

In addition, while 8 spheres and 4 orbs are automatic includes, the inclusion of Chalice is a difficult choice. Chalice is excellent in combo matches and fairly amazing set at 1 against some decks. Chalice at 2 is unacceptable for this deck. Chalice is a great card in normal stax, but there are several 1-casters that really could belong in the deck that have little or no synergy with chalice. Choosing whether to run chalice will change this deck more than any other card. You don't run 3-sphere, and therefore the curve is very different, so think carefully. Stax can run Chalice because it runs a mana-curve that is very extreme and almost untouched by 3-sphere, however, this deck cannot do the same.

Without chalice, I would probably run this deck:


Lock Components// 12x
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Winter Orb

Beaters// 20x
4 Ornithopter --0cc, major affinity factor, flyer. Lackey. Better than Hoverguard.
4 Arcbound Worker --1cc artifacts are a must. High synergy.
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer --Abuses asymmetry very well and this deck needs a clock that isn't based on comboing out---this is your juggernaught.

Others// 7x
4 Aether Vial --plays well against control, and 1cc slot
3 Cranial Plating --takes up the 2cc slot, is a piece that you drop after sphere, lacks synergy in this deck, but is very powerful (even without double black to support instant equip)

Mana-Base// 21x
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
3 Glimmervoid -- exists to support a sideboard
4 Wasteland -- adds to the mana-denial element; this card is a must have in any stax variant.


SB:
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Pithing Needle
3 Leyline of the Void


The aggro matchup needs the most work. 4 Ghostly Prison replaces ToR's very nicely. StP is simply the best removal that I can think of using to answer Goblins early enough. Jitte is also an option, but it is very mana-intensive.

Overall, the deck needs to deny tempo by destabilizing the mana-base and creating mana inefficiency against low-CC curves. What can make the deck different from White Stax is that it abuses the affinity mechanic to have a much faster clock at the cost of a less consistent prison.

peace,
4eak

Quote:

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What role is this deck trying to play? This deck appears to be attempting to be an aggro workshop deck. Obviously, it wants to disrupt like stax, but it wants to win early.

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Exactly

Quote:

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I have a few questions: Why not just play stax? After all, this deck really lacks the game it needs against an aggro-heavy deck.

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Because stax is simply too slow in the current meta. It's a control deck that cannot fully control the game, and so when it succeeds in slowing down your opponent, it often loses before it can do anything about it due to the abundance of speed in the meta.

Quote:

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Is it really possible to build an accelerated mana-base without bastardizing it by removing the heart and soul of affinity: the artifact lands? How do you keep the early artifact count high enough to compensate for a lack of artifact lands?

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This deck plays an abundance of artifact lands. We don't need to bastardize it, there's really no reason to.

Quote:

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**A bunch of very intelligent and accurate observations**

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Quote:

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Sadly, non-creature spells are hurt by all 8 spheres, etc etc... Some cards just can't make the cut, Such as...
....
thoughtcast

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Thoughtcast has affinity. You stated yourself that this is one of the key mechanics that breaks spheres. Its a mini recall, and this deck lacks any other kind of draw. You can't play confidant any more, obviously; I'd say thoughtcast is pretty crucial.

Quote:

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In addition, while 8 spheres and 4 orbs are automatic includes, the inclusion of Chalice is a difficult choice. Chalice is excellent in combo matches and fairly amazing set at 1 against some decks. Chalice at 2 is unacceptable for this deck. Chalice is a great card in normal stax, but there are several 1-casters that really could belong in the deck that have little or no synergy with chalice. Choosing whether to run chalice will change this deck more than any other card. You don't run 3-sphere, and therefore the curve is very different, so think carefully. Stax can run Chalice because it runs a mana-curve that is very extreme and almost untouched by 3-sphere, however, this deck cannot do the same.

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You forget that in the current meta, there are VERY few decks, if any at all, that are untouched by a chalice for 0 or for 1. Yes, this deck cannot play chalice for 2. However, you included very questionable 1-drops in place of chalice, which I will get to later. I cannot see playing this deck in it's more controlling roll without chalice. It just flat out wins against a lot of combo, greatly debilitates most control / aggro control, turn 1 chalice for 1 destroys a lot of aggro. It's such a good card in the current meta and this deck can break it.

As for your list. You run Worker and Vial. Vial is just weak in this deck now. You run a grand total of of 12 creatures you can use it with, and they all have a different mana cost. It is a bad card in this deck and there is no excuse for running it. Control can't worry about countering them, because you're dropping spheres and chalice, and if they dont counter those
, they dont have the mana / resources to do anything about your creatures.
And worker is just flat out bad. If you look at my list, there is not a single creature that isn't free, a flyer, or ravager. Worker doesn't fit any of these. He's just a weak 1/1, if he dies he gives you a 1/3 thopter or a double pump on a ravager. Both of these are simply too slow.

And finally, I think 4 plating is a must. More than 1 is amazing, and I don't see how it's anti-synergistic with the deck at all. It gets affected by orbs, sure, but your WHOLE DECK is artifacts. How can you not play this guy; he says "2 (or 3 or 4) mana: Take care of me in 1 turn or I win". Seems good.

Here's my take on the deck:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Thorn of Amethyst

4x Cranial Plating

4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Ornithopter
4x Somber Hoverguard

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
4x Seat of the Synod

4x Thoughtcast

I play 4 hooverguards, thoughtcast, enforcers and mites becaus I wanted to see how good this antisymmetry actually is when taken into the red zone.

I've only had a little trouble with casting the hooverguards and thoughtcasts because of the lack of blue mana sources, but even so they've been really great. Other than that I really like the chalice in here, Chalice on 1 is very strong against the meta, and since I don't play spells that cost 1 it really is asymmetric :)

The darksteel citadel and blinkmoth nexus can be easily replaced by the lands that give me some other colors depending what I'll be playing on my sideboard.

However an other problem that I've had is the damage I sometimes take from ancient tomb, and this really doesn't help the agro matchup...

Man lands + Plating seem good in a Prisonish affinity,no?

Yep, hence the 4 blinkmoth nexus in my list :D

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
2 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Myr Enforcer

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [B] Winter Orb

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TE] Hanna's Custody
SB: 4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [LG] In the Eye of Chaos
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

I am starting to think UW Affinity is the right way to go. I am glad to see the deck is getting more attention. I am planning on testing this list next as it seems strong all around. I am starting to wonder if ghostly prison should just go MD instead of myr enforcer. I am not sure if anyone else is testing somber hoverguard but he really is a bomb that usually drops for one, he also carries plating like a champ plus he is actually big enough to end games because of his size. Removing Disciple and vial is definitly taking this deck away from being normal affinity. Hanna's Custody seems like a perfect inclusion for the board.

anyways I figure I would post the must includes for the deck.

4 Wasteland
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Winter Orb
4 Frogmite
4 Cranial Plating

Without the above cards the deck would fall flat.

While nexus seems really good in the deck i tested it and found it to be only ok.

It seems like this thread is falling victim to "Ignore everyone's responses and post decklist after decklist" syndrome. Please, read through before responding. It makes the thread seem more intellegent and allows it to develop faster, both of which are necessary if we want this deck to grow.
Fons, I have questions about your list. First off, no City? That cuts your turn 1 spheres down by half. And you only need a few lands to function. If anything, cut tombs before citys (basically, dont cut either)
If you read the responses in the thread you will see that multiple pelple have been playing Hovergaurd. And yes, I agree, he is a bomb and I like him alot.
As for wastes, I kind of like them but kind of dont. They are obviously good disruption, but they aren't mana fixers, artifact lands, or 2lands. I dont know if the disruption is worth giving those up.
I also disagree with 4 winter orbs. I never, ever like to run a 4-of that is completely dead in multiples, and orb is one of these. Plus, it's fairly dead early on (until turn 4, maybe 3), so I really dont think 4 is necessary. Maybe though, Ill play with it some more.
Have you tested Chalice? The deck plays 0 1cc cards. Seems like it would be good.

I'm just starting to wonder: This deck leans more and more towards stax or even 5/3. Is this a good evolution? It roughly plays a lot of cards that stax also do, and with this base now, it's simply the kill condition that is different.

The positive thing about this deck is that it can transform from prison so combo-aggro depending on the opening hand. Drop your hand and start slamming with a Plated Ravager on turn 3 is awesome, but so is disruption of your opponent. Just wondering if this hybrid is any better than actual affinity or actual stax. It still folds to deed - a deed for 4 kills almost every single permanent of yours, and it is pretty hard to recover from that, especially when you have no outs to it, not even FoW or stifle like Affownity has.

I think its a good evolution. It takes stax and gives it a less stable mana base in exchange for the possibility to facerape your opponents early. In the current meta, stax and 5/3 are very difficult to be effective with because of their inherantly slow game. A single swinging goyf often means gg to them. This deck can play like stax, then plop down a flyer, equip a plating, and beat face.
And Deed hurts. We do have an out, Needle, which I have been testing MD. There are very few decks its dead against, but I dont like running a 1cc card in my list (which runs chalice), and its subpar somtimes. Maybe just stick to siding 4 in against deed / EE.

winter orb in testing has been a huge target for hate so 4 of seems great as it is so powerful.

Deed does seem to be an issue.

The reason im not playing city is because of its downside, with winter orb its nice to be able to drop a land whenever i can.

I also am now playing ghostly prison in the main instead of myr enforcer

In the past Extended season, Springleaf Drum has been a crucial card in speeding up Affinity by almost a full turn, meanwhile allowing amazing color-fixing to the deck. I wonder if the 8ball-type of Affinity decks would be better running the Drum as well, since it allows for broken Ornithopter starts, it fixes all colors while counting as an artifact, and it breaks symmetry with Winter Orb. In my opinion, it looks like the ideal card for this deck, and it has proven itself extremely vital in other non-vial Affinity builds. So has anybody tested this card here, yet? If so, why isn't it seeing any play?

I dont run it for a few reasons. One, as I have said, I dont like running 1cc cards in lists running chalice unless they are crucial. Two, if you'll look back a page I think this was said: This deck rarely wants to be tapping creatures for one mana. You dont play any excess creatures, save a thopter that isn't plated or hasn't been sacced to a ravager. And lastly, games with this deck last a little bit, and Springleaf drum is an absolutely dead late game draw.
That said, It does have potential to accelerate the deck. What would you suggest cutting? I can't really find anything.

against deed we can play karmic justice or aura of silence in the board.

Karmic Justice would be a pretty good solution. But that isn't a way of recovering after a boom effect. It's just like resetting the boar entirely, with maybe you having a darksteel citadel and an ancient tomb in play. You are most likely in topdeck mode when a deed for 4 is blown. LandStill or whatever deck you are playing against has often a hand full of cards, so they will recover faster by playing factory, island, standstill.

A meddling Mage in an UW build could be a solution to Deed. Who knows?

I think you're pretty right with the UW build:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid

4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Myr Enforcer

4 Cranial Plating

4 Thoughtcast
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void

I prefer explosiveness over Wasteland. Resolving an early chalice wil se them back in tempo. Right now, our only blue card in the mainboard is thoughtcast. I've thought about some more flyers: Has Somber Hoverguard ever been tested?

The sideboard can include Meddling Mage, Hannah's Custody, Karmic Justice etc. I'm not fond of splashing black for Disciple of the Vault. Really, it isn't that good. And it's dissynergistic with Chalice. Our only 1cc card is arcbound worker. I might chance that for a Somber Hoverguard. But then, I have to cut one more Darksteel Citadel for one more Glimmervoid. And maybe a City of Traitors.

I'll test later.

To sum it up, it's important to know that this is brown chalice aggro that also packs even more disruption pieces. Therefore, we need to stay as brown as we can, only splashing colors for very important pieces.

I play somber hoverguard in the arcbound worker slot (worker doesn't really do anything special now days...)

And I don't think playing 2 colors is good for this deck's consistency, given that we have a pretty hard time getting the right colors.

Here's my current list:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Thorn of Amethyst

4x Cranial Plating

4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Ornithopter
4x Somber Hoverguard

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Island
4x Seat of the Synod

4x Thoughtcast

Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
3x Winter Orb
4x Propaganda (if we splash black this could become Engineered Plague)
4x Tormod's Crypt (if we splash black, this would become Leyline of the Void)

This list works pretty well for me right now, the hoverguards really are bombs, the com down easily, have a pretty good body vs manacost ratio (given you play thorn's, chalice and stuf). But I think playing more than 1 color will really hurt the consistency of the deck.

Just played against Aggro Loam. I got savage beating. I haven't played affinity before in Legacy, but is that true for all other affinity variants? I mean, they at highest four cards in the 1cc slot, a lot of mana to negate the sphere effects, and a wishable shattering spree.

I've looked at the monoblue list you posted there. Really, it looks a lot better. I don't get why you play blinkmoth nexi over factories. Is it because they fly, so that we can equip plating on them post-wrath?

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Stifles in the sideboard could also do against pernicious deed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willoe

Just played against Aggro Loam. I got savage beating. I haven't played affinity before in Legacy, but is that true for all other affinity variants? I mean, they at highest four cards in the 1cc slot, a lot of mana to negate the sphere effects, and a wishable shattering spree.

I've looked at the monoblue list you posted there. Really, it looks a lot better. I don't get why you play blinkmoth nexi over factories. Is it because they fly, so that we can equip plating on them post-wrath?

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Stifles in the sideboard could also do against pernicious deed.

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I have also been having a difficult time with aggro loam but for a different reason, wastelock hurts so bad. Winter Orb is helpful against them, I've been sideing tormods crypt against them to deal with wastelock.

For shattering spree play hanna's custody. I really think you need to play UW.

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Originally Posted by Willoe

Just played against Aggro Loam. I got savage beating. I haven't played affinity before in Legacy, but is that true for all other affinity variants? I mean, they at highest four cards in the 1cc slot, a lot of mana to negate the sphere effects, and a wishable shattering spree.

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Yeah, I expect that matchup to be a real pain in the but. Therefor bring in 4 propaganda, 3 winter orb 4 crypts and 4 needle's for erm... wahtever (I'm realy bad with deciding what to side out...)

Wait... Is that my entire board?...

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Originally Posted by Willoe

I don't get why you play blinkmoth nexi over factories. Is it because they fly, so that we can equip plating on them post-wrath?

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I love it when people give a perfect answer for they're own questions.

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Originally Posted by Willoe

Stifles in the sideboard could also do against pernicious deed.

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That's what the needle's are for.

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Originally Posted by Melman

I dont run it for a few reasons. One, as I have said, I dont like running 1cc cards in lists running chalice unless they are crucial. Two, if you'll look back a page I think this was said: This deck rarely wants to be tapping creatures for one mana. You dont play any excess creatures, save a thopter that isn't plated or hasn't been sacced to a ravager. And lastly, games with this deck last a little bit, and Springleaf drum is an absolutely dead late game draw.
That said, It does have potential to accelerate the deck. What would you suggest cutting? I can't really find anything.

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That's a good point: Chalice is a problem for drum. So in a chalice version, it would either be dropped pre-chalice or become useless. That's not too good. However, in a non-chalice build, it should be golden. I would probably put Workers in the build with Drums, since it gives you more early dudes to tap for mana to explode. I don't actually think it's a bad idea to use your guys to tap for mana early on, considering this version of Affinity is meant to be prison first, beatdown second. Here's a simple list to point out the idea:

4 Ornithopter
3 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Somber Hoverguard

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Manlands
4 Ancient Tomb

I feel like, since there just isn't one definitive list for this deck in this thread, posting one would explain how to go about Drum's slot. I probably would try to sneak a couple of Winter Orbs into here, too, but I wanted to keep things simple.

And as for Drum sucking late game--who cares? Sac it to your ravager. This card will give you immensely better color consistency and help explode early.

You possibly "explode", "ejaculate" or whatever people calls it. I really don't care about explosiveness unless you play a real game-breaking card like Arc-Slogger or Blood Moon. But getting a Frogmite more often down on turn 1... I'd rather play Lotus Petal as it synergizes with Chalice of the Void.

And it count affinity, and as we all know, 2 petals can cast a frogmite, as well as 5 artifacts, tapped lands and a lotus petal can cast an enforcer.

overseer1234: You're absolutely right, answering your own question is so nice xD

I see the point with your sideboard. Is it any good? I mean, stifle's pretty versatile, after all.

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Originally Posted by Willoe

overseer1234: You're absolutely right, answering your own question is so nice xD

I see the point with your sideboard. Is it any good? I mean, stifle's pretty versatile, after all.

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I haven't tested the deck enough to find that out (I'm playing it as of yesterday and that only on MWS), but 1 needle can keep ALL your opponent's Deed's in check, stifle only helps for one.

Stifle does help against storm combo but.. I'd like to see them go off with chalice and sphere's gumming up the field (unless they play rebuild but... mèh)

What stifle WOULD be good for is if you fear a lot of shatering spree's, but then I'd just play another deck...

And wish+spree does take some time with orb and sphere's out, and wastelock doesn't kick in all to soon to when you're in that state, and if it does they won't be playing all to much other stuff so your creatures still beat face.

I mean, when you have our (semi)-lock pieces on the tabel they'll have to stop playing things if they want to cast they're spree, which mean you can just go and smash face :)

Most of this is still just in theory, but for the moment it does look this way on paper.

I'm really considering to take this deck into my metagame. Cheap, powerful and pretty "rogue-ish". Not many decks have that many answers for it. It seems like your sideboard is pretty good, how about Orb of Dreams for even more locking? Or is it antiproductive or too slow?

orb of dreams costs over the magic amount :2: and is slow and hurts wasteland and winter orb.

Alright, figured Id write a super-mini primer to get the discussion moving again because I see unrealized potential here. I haven't made a great many changes from before, but I simply don't know what direction to move in so I figure if I explain what Im thinking and seeing maybe other people will see potential and we can make this a truly solid deck.I've been testing this deck for a bit now. Its an awesome deck, and pretty much everyone I play against says so. However, it has issues that need to be smoothed out if its going to be tier 1, or 1.5 (Id say its currently around mid tier 2).

First, my current list, for reference:

// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Glimmervoid

// Creatures
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Somber Hoverguard
1 Myr Enforcer

// Spells
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb

// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Propaganda
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague

What the deck is: Aggro Control. 8 spheres, 4 Chalice, and Orb make up the lock, while the virtually free creatures and crazy boom potential of ravager and plating make up the aggro. You play as many lock pieces as you can early on, then some creatures and fly over / Clear through whatever creatures they may have managed to play.

What the deck isn't: Stax. Stax's game plan is to completely lock down your opponent to the point where they are helpless and you're free to leisurely bring them to 0. This deck doesn't play any smokestack or tabernacle or geddon effects, so it can't stop the opponent, merely slow them way way down.

Card Choices:
3 Tombs / 4 Traitors: 2cc lands are pretty crucial because they allow for turn one spheres and chalice. If I didn't run 4 chalice I may be inclined to tune them down, but as it is they are absolutely necessary because all too often "Turn 1 chalice for 1, Turn 2 Sphere, Turn 3 Orb / Beater+Plating" is gg (And it isn't that rare).

Artifact Lands: Its affinity, duh. 3 vault because you need arti lands for so many things and I play some black in the SB, may cut to 2 and run 4 citadel for more deed resiliancy but I dont want to be screwed out of early plagues so I dunno

Glimmervoid: Mana fixing. If I cut the B from the SB these will become Islands. having more Artifact lands would be wonderful, but I ran out >_<.

Frogmite: Free guy, comes out turn 2 for 0 most of the time, keeps an early confidant / small goyf / lackey from being too much of a pain. Kinda trashy late game but he's more consistent than Enforcer so he gets the slot for now.

Thopter: Free artifact that wins games with plating. For those that dont like him, test with him and count how many games you win because you can swing for 12 flying damage with him.

Ravager: No explanation needed

Hoverguard: Again, wins games cause he's got wings. He's not an artifact, which can hurt in the case of ravagers dying, but he's a 3/2 flyer for 1 so imo its worth it.

Enforcer: Filling the flex slot for now, cause drawing him is pretty much always good mid/late game. I may want to run more but can't find room atm (maybe another for a frog?)

Spheres: The deck's namesake. There isn't a single deck out there who's day they don't ruin. Affinity makes them one sided, they're artifacts for plating and ravager. It's what the deck is built around.

Plating: 1, Equip: Equipped creature wins the game if not immediately killed.

Thoughtcast: Mini recall. Im not so sure about this guy, because he's not a threat, artifact, or lock piece, but he obviously draws them, so if you have the U to spare and the artifacts already on the board to support him it's obviously strict card advantage, and its a draw spell that doesn't get owned by chalice on 1.

Chalice: Some people don't run this guy, I cant imagine why not. Look at the top decks and count how many 1cc spells there are in all of them. It ends games against storm and burn, cripples thresh and control, and at the very least is a free artifact in multiples.

Winter Orb: The deck runs completely fine off of one or two lands so this is yet another one sided lock piece. I only run three cause I hate seeing more than one, and often the opponent can't afford to target it with removal because they're about to get raped by a creature or need to cast their 1cc spells.

Cards not included (In paragraph form): Disciple, because he costs 1 and because he only really synergises with one other card in the deck. He does nothing against deed, you want to be playing 2cc spells turn one. He just doesn't fit in. There's only one enforcer cause it seems like he would be too slow early, although testing shows that this is only sometimes true, so Im not sure here. No springleaf drum because Thopter is practically the same thing except it's a win condition too, and because drum costs 1, and you want to be swinging. Worker because he's trash in pretty much every way Sure it has small synergy with ravager, but it has dissynergy with Chalice, Sphere, Hoverguard, and good decks. And finally, no Manlands because the mana base is unstable as is, and cutting artifact lands for manlands is a bad idea because it strictly slows down the deck.

Problems:
The deck's main problem currently is that it can't deal with early threats. You creatures are artifact creatures, so one counter is +2 on goyf, and nobody in your deck survives a big goyf (unless you can afford to deed yourself for Ravager) so it's just a race if he hits. I don't know quite how to solve this one. People suggest Swords, but that's another color and costs 1 and doesn't fit with the deck's strategy. Other more cynical people suggest splashing green for my own goyfs, but again, that doesn't fit too well with other cards in the deck.
Also, quite obviously, deed is a problem, EE to a lesser extent. It pretty much resets your board. Now, this isn't gg, because as you get more experienced with the deck you learn exactly how much to extend and how much to hold against decks packing sweepers, but it really does hose the deck pretty bad. As for answers, Some people have suggested Karmic Justice and Stifle, but Justice would mean another color, and it's slow and only a partial answer, and Stifle costs 1 and is somewhat situational, and you don't need it for the combo matchup. Maybe we can just accept it and bend over when one hits the board, but I'm pretty sure something needs to be done.
Combo is no problem because we play so many cards that own them if they land early, control isn't bad because you play so many must-counters.

Very quick matchup run through: Gobs is about 50-50 pre board, you're in trouble if they're on the play and land a turn 1 vial, but other than that you're mostly set because Spheres and Chalice and flyers mess with them. Post board you get Plague and they get grips, so Id say it stays about the same. Thresh has been about 50/50 for me as well, because spheres and chalice are so good against them and they have no answers to flyers, but an early swinging goyf hurts. Any storm combo is very favorable. Stiflenaught is favorable because resolved chalice for 1 is gg, and spheres slow them down so much, so most of the time you kill them the turn they manage to get a naught down or the turn after, and they play no sweepers. Burn is stupid easy. Eva Green is probably slightly unfavorable because they can rape your hand and they have early threats. however, their curve is very very low so Spheres and chalice hit them hard.

Quick list of ideas that I need to develop further:
Does the basic premise of the deck work or should it be shifted?
More Aggresive with Enforcers and Disciples, More defensive with Swords and more Orbs?
Does Ensnaring Bridge solve anything (what with instant Plating equips and Hoverguard being a 3/2)?
Is the Black Splash worth it / is a different splash better?
Manlands?

If you took the time to read this, thank you; I'll continue to work on it regardless =P

If you just want to kill 'goyf and not have a 1cc spell, I'd say go with terror or Expunge. both do it, bot dodge chalice@1