New Keyword: Cascade

Found this on MTGSalvation:

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Keyword: 続唱 / 'Double Cast'

"[When you play this], Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card with lesser converted mana cost than this spell. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all revealed cards still in your library on the bottom of your library [at random / in any order / --].Notes: This could trigger on playing the spell, or it could be a keyword action you simply enact like scry.

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It appears on this not-yet-confirmed card:

Tar Shards :3::b::r:
Instant (U)
'Double Cast'
~this~ deals 4 damage to target creature.
When you play this spell, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card with lesser converted mana cost than this spell. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all revealed cards still in your library on the bottom of your library at random order.

This...piques my interest, but i think its a bit too random to see play here. Question, not that anyone would know, but could a card with double cast played off of a card with double cast have its double cast activated? I'm assuming yes. This could lead to very interesting games if one had library manipulators.

Good lord. They better all have high cc's *and* suck as (legacy) spells.

Keep in mind it only triggers on lesser cc spells, so it can't go on forever. It does have all the potential of being broken, but it really depends on what else they're going to print with doublecast.

EDIT: It has been confirmed.

Yeah, less than instead of less that or equal to makes it way less broken. Unless... Actually idk, fill it in a deck with ritual effects and it could be pretty strong. I agree, everything better cost 4-5cc, do something trivial (like NOT draw cards) and be in 9 different color's.

A 1 mana doublecast card would be the brokenest thingy ever. 1 Mana do some effect + ancestral vision.

Combined with the appropriate tutors, this can be used to play Ancestral Vision, Wheel of Fate, or Lotus Bloom. It doesn't have to be 1 cc, even if this is on spells with 2x casting cost, it could have potential in stompy-type decks.

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Originally Posted by rufus

it could have potential in stompy-type decks.

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The problem here is that you may stumble upon a Mox...

Thats why you use library manipulation. This mechanic looks like it has some serious potential for storm decks though.

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Originally Posted by beastman

Thats why you use library manipulation. This mechanic looks like it has some serious potential for storm decks though.

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[Sarcasm] YEAH! I can cheat that Chrome Mox into play! [/End Sarcasm]

There's too many random bad cards in storm decks for this to be of good use.

EDIT: This seems awfully close to ripple.

I love how this mechanic is basically a janky but stealthy way to get mana fixing into the set.

Ugh, this mechanic sucks.

It doesn't allow you to play sorcery speed cards, does it?

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Originally Posted by jjjoness'

It doesn't allow you to play sorcery speed cards, does it?

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Why wouldn't it?

This is going to depend on the cards they print for it, I think. Tar Shards seems to suck. But in some UBR Control deck, Tar Shards into Fact or Fiction is sexy.

I disagree with the decks that will use it, though. I think control decks will use it more for the card and tempo advantage.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

Good lord. They better all have high cc's *and* suck as (legacy) spells.

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Rest assured, they will.
To make this legacy playable, I'd guess the card would have to cost 2 or 3 mana (in the 4CC slot I highly doubt they print an effect comparable to Fact/Wrath/Geddon + Doublecast) and has to have an effect that keeps up with legacys powerlevel...
I doubt that will happen.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

This is going to depend on the cards they print for it, I think. Tar Shards seems to suck. But in some UBR Control deck, Tar Shards into Fact or Fiction is sexy.

I disagree with the decks that will use it, though. I think control decks will use it more for the card and tempo advantage.

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This assumes there are any playable cards with this ability.

The problem is, at least as far as control decks go, Double Cast spells increase in usefulness as their CMC increases. Control decks tend to run cards up to five mana, but most of the business spells are in the three to four mana range, making five the minimum cost for a Double Cast spell (since it's strictly less than). Five mana is an awful lot to ask when most of these spells will probably have effects not worth their cost - in other words, the spell costs more than it should to make it not totally ridiculous because you get two spells out of it.

There's also the problem of flipping a counterspell with one of these.

No, seriously, every doublecast is going to cost a shitton and be crappy. I don't think it would see play, since the ability seems so broken on anything cheap (especially 1cc where you could guarantee certain flips).

Tar Shards so far looks just awful, though. Even if you could guarantee Tar Shards would flip into a Fact or Fiction (you can't without some card combo), would you really pay 3BR for a fact or fiction + small creature pop?

I wouldn't. Fact or Fiction is already too expensive.

Fill your deck up with Tar Shards and Prophetic Bolts, yeah!



I think if there are decently good doublecasts (3cc or less and decent effect), people might play Ancestral Visions with it. Ancestral tagged on seems strong. But if they're all more than 3 or 4, it'd be so hard to guarantee you'd hit anything relevant.

Nice catch with Ancestral...I hope that works ("no mana cost" should count as zero there, right...?). Wheel of Fate would be even more broken in the right deck, a 1cc Doublecast had a good chance of drawing you seven cards, while Lotus Bloom would turn that 1cc Doublecast into a Dark Ritual. Mystical Tutor + 1cc Doublecast = draw seven cards for two mana.

If a decent creature comes with doublecast, then I think that the ability may well find a niche in the format, if aggro-control can make use of that creature. We'll just have to wait and find out.

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Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

If a decent creature comes with doublecast, then I think that the ability may well find a niche in the format, if aggro-control can make use of that creature.

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It sure depends of the power-level of the card, but even if they print :

"DoubleCast Bear" 1G
Rare
2/2
DoubleCast

I dunno if it would see play in decks like Threshold//NLU//CBTopGoyf.dec

Sure, with Top active, any cheap doubleCast spell with any significant effect is tempting, but take some slots to run a bear which Ponder or put Goose (which is less and less played) in play AND put at bottom unneeded lands, I dunno...
Why not just draw and play the Ponder or Mongoose instead of the bear and leave free slots for additionnal control or effective win-cons (and fetch away the undesired lands btw) ?!

Still, I do think they will not print any doubleCast card below 4cc and with poor effects along it (like those ol'Ripple crap).

If they weren't going to print any cheap Doublecast spell, they probably would not have bothered with the annoying "random order" clause. Doublecast is convoluted and unlikely to be reprinted, and stacking your deck is pretty fair if the drawback is that your whole deck is made of expensive spells.

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Originally Posted by beastman

Thats why you use library manipulation. This mechanic looks like it has some serious potential for storm decks though.

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Lim Dul's vault anyone? Set it up and do stupid things? Although this is all smoke & conjecture until we find out whether there are any good cards with doublecast...

Bear with Doublecast would be ridiculous. I'd much rather play that that Tarmogoyf.

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

Bear with Doublecast would be ridiculous. I'd much rather play that that Tarmogoyf.

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in what deck exactly.


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Wow ya for sure this would be good if were to say replace scry in magma jet. It would be strictly better at least in burn. It seems like a very red mechanic to me. maybe black with discard.

edit- I didn't realize it was just any card. that is interesting.

"Doublecast Bear" is a pretty solid card for Zoo. 1G for the bears + an ape, wild nacatl, or bolt. Probably comparable to 'goyf there.

Beyond that, I think decks would want some modification to make it work.

I think it has potential to be really busted in some kind of combo/control deck - perhaps Aluren with enlightened tutors or something.

A more control-oriented deck - perhaps some kind of landstill variant - could play bears and Ancestral Visons. 1G for a 2/2 + Draw 3 cards is pretty solid. (Although, at that point, the body is really just icing.).

There's also Bears -> Hypergensis as an alternative to Show and Tell.

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

No, seriously, every doublecast is going to cost a shitton and be crappy. I don't think it would see play, since the ability seems so broken on anything cheap (especially 1cc where you could guarantee certain flips).

Tar Shards so far looks just awful, though. Even if you could guarantee Tar Shards would flip into a Fact or Fiction (you can't without some card combo), would you really pay 3BR for a fact or fiction + small creature pop?

I wouldn't. Fact or Fiction is already too expensive.

Fill your deck up with Tar Shards and Prophetic Bolts, yeah!



I think if there are decently good doublecasts (3cc or less and decent effect), people might play Ancestral Visions with it. Ancestral tagged on seems strong. But if they're all more than 3 or 4, it'd be so hard to guarantee you'd hit anything relevant.

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If there were 1cc, forget about trying to hit ancestral visions to "merely" draw 3 cards. Just don't run the visions and stack your deck instead.

You couldnt stack your deck cuz of the random clause.

1cc with Doublecast means: T1 land => Spirit Guide/Mox/Petal/... (depends on card's color)=>Doublecast card=>Mystical Tutor (or just Brainstorm) in resp to Doublecast => Wheel of Fate => draw 7(3-4 storm counters already)=>Oops, you loose.

IMHO this ability can break the format, so I think in attempt to balance it Wizards will make crappy effects/high CMC on Doublecast cards, wich means the cards will not be very playable.

PS Imagine how broken can this ability be in Vintage...

I can't foresee them printing playable cards with this mechanic.

Fake card example:

Twinsight :3::u:
Sorcery
Twincast
Draw two cards.

This is approximately the highest powerlevel I can imagine them printing with this mechanic. Would storm want to play this card? I wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Sun_Ra

I can't foresee them printing playable cards with this mechanic.

Fake card example:

Twinsight :3::u:
Sorcery
Twincast
Draw two cards.

This is approximately the highest powerlevel I can imagine them printing with this mechanic. Would storm want to play this card? I wouldn't.

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Twincast is not good in blue decks anyway! Okay lests see: e.g. Play "Twinsight", reveal counterspell...errr....ups...there is only may spell on the stack so I have to counter my own spell. Yeah indeed very nice... :eyebrow:

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Originally Posted by Pemmin

Twincast is not good in blue decks anyway! Okay lests see: e.g. Play "Twinsight", reveal counterspell...errr....ups...there is only may spell on the stack so I have to counter my own spell. Yeah indeed very nice... :eyebrow:

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Actually, the twin goes on the stack first, so it's unlikely to have anything to counter.

Actually, today most :u:-based decks run 4 Brainstorm, 3-4 Ponder and 3-4 Sensei's Divining Top + a lot of shuffle, so Doublecast can be VERY strong in blue.

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Originally Posted by eq.firemind

1cc with Doublecast means: T1 land => Spirit Guide/Mox/Petal/... (depends on card's color)=>Doublecast card=>Mystical Tutor (or just Brainstorm) in resp to Doublecast => Wheel of Fate => draw 7(3-4 storm counters already)=>Oops, you loose.

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How is that any more broken than just Ritual->Ritual->Ad Nauseam->Oops, you lose? At least with AN, it doesn't require you to run awful and otherwise dead cards like Wheel of Fate.

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Originally Posted by Pemmin

Twincast is not good in blue decks anyway! Okay lests see: e.g. Play "Twinsight", reveal counterspell...errr....ups...there is only may spell on the stack so I have to counter my own spell. Yeah indeed very nice... :eyebrow:

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It's a "may" ability. You can just shuffle it to the bottom if you don't want to play the spell.

let's not forget that all cards in the new set are multicolored

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Originally Posted by KillemallCFH

How is that any more broken than just Ritual->Ritual->Ad Nauseam->Oops, you lose? At least with AN, it doesn't require you to run awful and otherwise dead cards like Wheel of Fate.

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1) You will play this in your ANT deck to have another combo engine
(just replace 5 cards because you already run tutors).
2) On turn 1 it just replaces itself with Mox/Petal/LED for sure, wich means more probability you'll kill turn 2.
3) 1cc Doublecast can give you 2 storm counters and something else just for 1 mana (actually, it'll be Mox or Petal OR LED, so 2 for :0:), so IMHO it's very useful even without Wheel of Fate.
4) That card itself has some effect (IMHO it's too cool even without it).

1cc Doublecast is like Worldgorger Dragon. Useless by itself, but can make some gamebreaking tricks with some other cards/in special decks.

I can't wait to see the hybrid One With Nothing with Double Cast attached.

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Originally Posted by TorpidNinja

I can't wait to see the hybrid One With Nothing with Double Cast attached.

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