[RANT] WTF Legacy players!?!?!?!

What the fuck is wrong with all these idiots going "ban Brainstorm, ban Green Sun Zenith, ban Miracle Walk, ban Knight of the Reliquary..." The list just goes on an on and on.

What the fuck, are you all retarded or something? Go play it out. You can't beat Maverick, go suck it up sunshine. Is Canadian/RUG Tempo too much for you? Boo hoo little fella. Go call 911 or something and get the whambulance.

Also, I blame SCG and all you horders among other things for this. If an ounce of stacked up printed cardboard didn't cost more than an ounce of gold, a lot of these whiners won't be whining about cards being too fucking good because they would have a secondary option. Also, Personal Tutor going on price? Really? Fucking Really!?!?!

First world fucking problems, I blew my budget on this Stoneblade deck and it can barely beat Maverick. Now I am fucked, the DCI needs to ban whatever makes that deck work. Seriously, what the fuck!?!??

This belongs to the drunken thread, doesn't it?

I agree. If you blame any strategy to be busted and you're not playing it, you're the stupid here. If it's so unfair, join the team.

I know right?!?!??!

But seriously, this has been going on forever. Due to the SCG Opens, everyone likes to play 1 of the top 3 or 4 decks, and then complain about the others. No one tries to beat the top decks, they just play whatever placed first the previous week. Thats the problem with Legacy and Legacy players. Did anyone else notice that the top decks in Legacy are the same ones from the weeks following the banning of Mental Misstep? How about the fact that the only good decks in Legacy during the Mental Misstep era were NO Rug, Stoneblade, and Hive Mind?

I think that if Legacy players (namely North American ones) would try to beat the best deck(s), rather than playing the same old crap from week to week, maybe the format wouldnt be as stale and people wouldnt be whining about bannings.

End rant....

In all seriousness, OP is about 100% correct.

Thanks Nameless One for making my day.

In a format where decks are extremely expensive, changing decks isn't necessarily an easy proposition. People like to talk about how legacy is "cheaper than standard once you account for the fact that your cards don't rotate," but the reality is that if you want to play the best or beat the best you have to add cards to your collection fairly frequently (unless you want to spend more than you would on many years worth of standard all at once).

We should ban all cards except creatures.

Also America!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baghdadbob

We should ban all cards except creatures.

Also America!

---

Except gofy or stoneforge mystic. Those two could use a good banning.

Might as well ban delver and snapcaster while we are at it.

Ban everything until Craw Wurm is good again. And then ban Craw Wurm.

Pretty much covers all the bases, right?

I agree 110%. Can we go back to the old days of the Source where crying about fair cards earned you a "shut the fuck up noob" and a locked thread? So tired of this shit, and it's the same every time. First some central card in a deck has a good weekend or 2 back to back, then one person starts complaining. Now everyone would rather jump on the banned-wagon then actually take the time to think about how they could be beating said deck. Remember when it was ban Show and Tell, because Hive Mind was on a tear for 3 weeks? Bunch of scrubs complaining it was unwinnable for StoneBlade, while the good players were busy adding Spellstutters to their decks. "Oh my God, ban Green Sun Zenith!!!" Are you serious? Does Swords or Wrath not answer pretty much every creature that could possibly be Zenithed now?

If you think anything needs to be banned in the current Legacy you are a scrub of the highest caliber. Legacy is absolutely fine as is.

Of course now we don't even wait for the card to be released before we cry for a ban. Shit we don't even wait to see the rest of the set. 114 people voted to preemptively ban the new Miracle Walk. How many of these people tested the card even once, and how many just read the card and read the shit storm in the forums and decided with absolutely zero evidence the card was broken. I have yet to see a single decklist where the card is even close to broken, in fact I think I've seen one list that wasn't complete garbage so far. So now we don't even have to test the card to whine about it, we just see people complaining and instantly jump on the ship.

Isn't that how the internet works? It is pretty much the emperor's new clothes over and over again. The asshole is naked everyone and some cards are good. It is how a metagame works....fucking sheep I swear.

Totally agree with namless one.

Aditionally mods should use their powers more agressively and lock all those whinefest threads. Legacy was always known to take care of dtb and flavor of the month decks, mechanics, archetypes etc.. if ppl rather whine then trying to break those decks.. well then gtfo!

Sometimes I'm not sure if they are making it an ongoing joke and being sarcastic, or if they are serious.

http://i.imgur.com/AvMd5.jpg

This thread served as inspiration.

Yes. How dare people have opinions differing from your own about what would constitute the better design of a collectible card game.

The whole point is this game has gotten so competitive that we've forgotten the reason why we started playing it in the first place: to have fun.

I find it funnier that most of the really scary good deck builders have gone quiet lately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by death

The whole point is this game has gotten so competitive that we've forgotten the reason why we started playing it in the first place: to have fun.

---

This, this, a thousand times this. It makes me sick seeing how absurdly overpriced these little pieces of cardboard are. I'm not saying this due to personal lack of funds, as I've owned almost every deck at different points in time. I'm saying this because it makes people totally irrational, much as the OP said, break the bank on a deck you like? Can't beat anything two months later? Of course they're frustrated, I get that feeling. I believe 100% that if prices of cards where more reasonable the assinine banning discussions would fall off considerably.
The only way that will happen though is if people remember that we all started playing magic because it was a fun thing to do with our friends and stop treating mtg like an investment and start treating it like a game like it actually is.
I don't play much anymore outside of small locals twice a month, why? Nobody is having fun anymore, everyone (myself included) got way too serious. I regret that more than I can say. The game has been ruined for so many people due to hoarding and wannabe brokers and pros.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by (nameless one)

What the fuck is wrong with all these idiots going "ban Brainstorm, ban Green Sun Zenith, ban Miracle Walk, ban Knight of the Reliquary..." The list just goes on an on and on.

What the fuck, are you all retarded or something? Go play it out. You can't beat Maverick, go suck it up sunshine. Is Canadian/RUG Tempo too much for you? Boo hoo little fella. Go call 911 or something and get the whambulance.

Also, I blame SCG and all you horders among other things for this. If an ounce of stacked up printed cardboard didn't cost more than an ounce of gold, a lot of these whiners won't be whining about cards being too fucking good because they would have a secondary option. Also, Personal Tutor going on price? Really? Fucking Really!?!?!

First world fucking problems, I blew my budget on this Stoneblade deck and it can barely beat Maverick. Now I am fucked, the DCI needs to ban whatever makes that deck work. Seriously, what the fuck!?!??

---

If you can't beat them amigo join THEM or just play CRAW WURM? WTF!!!

I think what needs banning is the internet. If people couldn't net deck and couldn't check prices on Ebay or Star City, then we'd see a change. There wouldn't be rushes to get the next big card which jack up prices. People would have to come up with strategies of their own. People would come up with reasonable prices for cards based on their region. There would be no spoilers for new sets...
That actually sounds like how things were back in '93... (oh the memories)
So instead of banning the cards, let's just ban the internet!

Quote:

---

Julian23

http://i.imgur.com/AvMd5.jpg

This thread served as inspiration.

---

Seems too good, ban it.

-Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the thin white duke

i think what needs banning is the internet. If people couldn't net deck and couldn't check prices on ebay or star city, then we'd see a change. There wouldn't be rushes to get the next big card which jack up prices. People would have to come up with strategies of their own. People would come up with reasonable prices for cards based on their region. There would be no spoilers for new sets...
That actually sounds like how things were back in '93... (oh the memories)
so instead of banning the cards, let's just ban the internet!

---

I also love North Korea!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Infinitium

Yes. How dare people have opinions differing from your own about what would constitute the better design of a collectible card game.

---

Differing opinions would be one thing. As it stands 99% of the time people have complained about a card needing to be banned it was solved shortly thereafter by a metagame adjustment. There is an official thread for banning discussions yet EVERY TIME it spills out into a new thread. Even worse this "discussion" spills into threads that have nothing to do with the B&R list. Back in the day discussions about what to ban or unban were prohibited. If you started talking about it the thread would end up locked as soon as that discussion overshadowed whatever the thread was supposed to be about. Now it pretty much spills into every discussion at one time or another.

I'm fine with people talking about what they feel should be banned or unbanned, but it needs to be reigned in as...
#1- it's an ultimately useless discussion to have, no one here makes those choices and if the DCI listened to people complaining in these forums they would have ruined the format long ago.
#2- It's distracting from threads where there should be legitimate discussion. Any thread about a deck on a hot streak should be full of people discussing ways to beat the deck, what makes the deck good, what SB options should be considered vs. it, what it means to the metagame, ect. Instead every thread like this quickly turns into a ban this/ban that discussion which completely distracts from what should be a constructive discussion.

Talking about what should be banned / unbanned is fine, but keep it in the THREAD ABOUT B&R discussion where it belongs. Take the Bitching about the price of card thread as an example. If every time someone talked about Wasteland/Force/Candelabra/Moat in a thread we started complaining about the price of cards this forum would be worthless. If we started a thread everytime a card jumped in value the forum would be polluted with...
THREAD: Personal Tutor is Expensive now!!!
THREAD: OMG Temporal Mastery $35 preorder!!!
THREAD: New Red PW $25 WTF?

Do everyone a favor mods. Direct people to the B&R discussion thread when they start spitting that garbage elsewhere. The "Maverick in the metagame" thread officially has more people complaining about GSZ than people discussing how to beat Maverick.

I wish this forum would return to a bit more of a elitist/professional attitude. Kind of the Team Liquid of Legacy. Complaining about balance, whining and all that kind of stuff is punished more harshly there. There's still lots of mish/mash stuff, but the Strategy forums are actually moderated pretty well. Not because mods there would be better, but because they enforce a more elitist policy.

I mean, when someone starts arguing about stuff like Force of Will without brining up new arguments, moderators should feel comfortable handing out warnings or temp bans.

http://mtggiftsgiven.blogspot.com/20...of-legacy.html

This sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the rising costs of legacy and people feeling squeamish about having to reinvest when a new set comes out.

Anyways, here are my thoughts: Picture links to video
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3931/picture1ab.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckme10

I wonder if it has anything to do with the rising costs of legacy and people feeling squimish about having to reinvest when a new set comes out.

---

Reinvest? You mean buy one or two new cards instead of overhauling entire decks, as in Standard and maybe Modern?

See, the OP and all this blowing of each other's blue members sounds like the real whining to me. "Right on Bro! Lets have a big, blue-colored group hug and throw a party for Brainstorm! Long live overpowered cards! We'll even invite a clown to play Jace the Mindsculptor! Hurray!"

Boo hoo, someone once pointed out that Brainstorm is too good and now you're going to cry about the discussion that it might get banned someday?

Get over it, Blue IS too good and has been for a long time.

The irony is that I actually agree with the statement that people need to be more creative about beating the top decks before they start complaining and asking for bans. The success of decks like Maverick means that the format is healthy and there really don't need to be any cards banned anytime soon.

That being said... all you Brainstorm-junkies need to chill out. Go play with some other colors for a change and see things from other people's perspectives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

http://mtggiftsgiven.blogspot.com/20...of-legacy.html

This sums up my thoughts on the matter.

---

Great summary. This is how I feel as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I agree. If you blame any strategy to be busted and you're not playing it, you're the stupid here. If it's so unfair, join the team.

---

Yes then everyone can play the same deck, we'll call the game 'Go Fish'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nedleeds

Yes then everyone can play the same deck, we'll call the game 'Go Fish'.

---

You're overestimating the human brain by a lot. Even during the era of Flash, people were still playing a lot of other decks. And to be fair, Legacy is as far from such a dominant strategy as it has ever been.

The goal ist not to make every matchup as close to 50/50 as possible. Actually, a format in which this was the case would be something I'd not take a lot of joy playing in. Instead what is considered healthy is a format that can be considered well-rounded with various archetypes holding each other in check.

That format is Legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by (nameless one)

What the fuck is wrong with all these idiots going "ban Brainstorm, ban Green Sun Zenith, ban Miracle Walk, ban Knight of the Reliquary..." The list just goes on an on and on.

What the fuck, are you all retarded or something? Go play it out. You can't beat Maverick, go suck it up sunshine. Is Canadian/RUG Tempo too much for you? Boo hoo little fella. Go call 911 or something and get the whambulance.

Also, I blame SCG and all you horders among other things for this. If an ounce of stacked up printed cardboard didn't cost more than an ounce of gold, a lot of these whiners won't be whining about cards being too fucking good because they would have a secondary option. Also, Personal Tutor going on price? Really? Fucking Really!?!?!

First world fucking problems, I blew my budget on this Stoneblade deck and it can barely beat Maverick. Now I am fucked, the DCI needs to ban whatever makes that deck work. Seriously, what the fuck!?!??

---

This post was much too long. I did not read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Julian23

I wish this forum would return to a bit more of a elitist/professional attitude. Kind of the Team Liquid of Legacy. Complaining about balance, whining and all that kind of stuff is punished more harshly there. There's still lots of mish/mash stuff, but the Strategy forums are actually moderated pretty well. Not because mods there would be better, but because they enforce a more elitist policy.

I mean, when someone starts arguing about stuff like Force of Will without brining up new arguments, moderators should feel comfortable handing out warnings or temp bans.

---

Or people could just stop responding when they see the same old bullshit surface over and over again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Or people could just stop responding when they see the same old bullshit surface over and over again.

---

Not gonna happen.

http://i.imgur.com/VoR6M.png

http://i.imgur.com/jIqHE.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogczar

See, the OP and all this blowing of each other's blue members sounds like the real whining to me. "Right on Bro! Lets have a big, blue-colored group hug and throw a party for Brainstorm! Long live overpowered cards! We'll even invite a clown to play Jace the Mindsculptor! Hurray!"

Boo hoo, someone once pointed out that Brainstorm is too good and now you're going to cry about the discussion that it might get banned someday?

Get over it, Blue IS too good and has been for a long time.

The irony is that I actually agree with the statement that people need to be more creative about beating the top decks before they start complaining and asking for bans. The success of decks like Maverick means that the format is healthy and there really don't need to be any cards banned anytime soon.

That being said... all you Brainstorm-junkies need to chill out. Go play with some other colors for a change and see things from other people's perspectives.

---

#1 - You have 11 posts, you weren't have for ban this card versions rounds 1 - 5000. Take a look at the B&R speculation thread if you want some idea of how horrid this format would be if WotC listened to these people.
#2 - It would be one thing if it was only Brainstorm, but it's been Top, Goyf, Lackey, Coralhelm, Show&Tell, Ad Nauseum, GSZ, Mystic, Order, pretty much and card that's top 8'd more than once in a 3 week period, which is apparently a bannable offense.
#3 - Even that wouldn't be that big of a deal if it stayed in the B&R thread. That's the place for complaining or ranting about whatever card you feel is unfair. Instead it commonly derails what could be useful discussion. Talking about what should be banned/unbanned is the most useless conversation we could have. Sometimes it's a nice diversion to hear what other people think about the subject but in the end nothing is going to get banned / unbanned because someone complained about it on the source. So just keep it in it's thread and out of all the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogczar

See, the OP and all this blowing of each other's blue members sounds like the real whining to me. "Right on Bro! Lets have a big, blue-colored group hug and throw a party for Brainstorm! Long live overpowered cards! We'll even invite a clown to play Jace the Mindsculptor! Hurray!"

Boo hoo, someone once pointed out that Brainstorm is too good and now you're going to cry about the discussion that it might get banned someday?

Get over it, Blue IS too good and has been for a long time.

The irony is that I actually agree with the statement that people need to be more creative about beating the top decks before they start complaining and asking for bans. The success of decks like Maverick means that the format is healthy and there really don't need to be any cards banned anytime soon.

That being said... all you Brainstorm-junkies need to chill out. Go play with some other colors for a change and see things from other people's perspectives.

---

If blue IS too good and has been for a long time, why the fuck is anyone playing anything other than blue? Is everyone not playing blue just stupid?

Well looks like this thread actually accomplished something.

The pics alone were full of win.