Trade Pod (Tradewind Rider Birthing Pod)

First thing - This deck probably needs a better name. Trade Pod is stupid.

Introduction

While looking around TC Decks (For those of you who aren't using TC Decks, you're missing out on literally the best deck repository on the Internet) and I'm looking for something silly to build so I'm looking at the Rogue section, where I come across these lists:

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...3&iddeck=60518
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...8&iddeck=58187
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...1&iddeck=56182

For convenience, I've included the basic list here:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Masticore
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Spike Feeder
1 Spike Weaver
1 Triskelion
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Reveillark
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tradewind Rider
4 Wall of Roots

1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Birthing Pod

1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Savannah
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
7 Forest


The deck looked incredibly silly, and like it could maybe even compete, so I decided to sleeve it up, considering that I had most of the cards. I've played the deck on-and-off for the last 3 weeks and I've settled on this as a tentative list:

4 Birthing Pod
1 Green sun's Zenith

Creatures, Sorted by Mana Cost

4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Quirion Ranger

1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Wall of Roots
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
2 Phantasmal Image

2 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Wood Elves
1 Spike Feeder

1 Masticore
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wickerbough Elder
3 Tradewind Rider (I can only find 3!)
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Spike Weaver

1 Reveillark
1 Murkfiend Liege

1 Sun Titan
1 Triskelion

6 Forest
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Gaea's Cradle
7 Fetch Lands

Card Selection

Since there are so many different cards in the deck, I'll be categorizing them by type:

Birthing Pod, Green Sun's Zenith - Birthing Pod is the linchpin of the deck, while it is entirely possible to win games without the card, after only a couple of activations, you're generally so far ahead that most decks are unable to get back in the game. Green Sun's Zenith is a loose slot, but theoretically helps to increase the stability of draws, but is certainly a card that can be cut.

Tradewind Rider - By far, the most common win condition in the deck stems from concessions resulting from Tradewind Rider activations. Against Slower combo decks, any control deck and most mid-range decks, Tradewind Rider must be answered before it loses summoning sickness or it viciously takes them out of the game. I'd not hesitate to play this card as a four-of if I was able to get my hands on the last copy.

Mana Guys - The inclusion of BoP and Noble Hierarchs in the deck is somewhat obvious as the deck tends to be quite mana-hungry. Wall of Roots also falls into this category, but also lets you stave off early creatures. A plethora of one-costs allows you easy access into Phantasmal Image, which fulfills a number of uses, but also lets you hit Scavenging Oooze.

Clones - The three Clone effects in the maindeck, 2 Phantasmal Image and 1 Phyrexian Metamorph offer nearly endless utility, often copying your own Eternal Witness or other value creature, but can also be used to make an unstoppable wall of Spike Weavers or even infinite combo with Triskelion and Reveillark. The clones let you jump around mana-costs for Birthing Pod which is incredibly useful, and always return to a Lark trigger.

Utility Creatures - The number of creatures that fulfill some useful role in the deck is high, and the potential cards that can fill those roles is even higher. I've identified that you want to have at least these roles filled in the deck's 75 (76 in my case, something 77)

(Special Note about Spikes, they can allow you to remove the -1/-1 Counters from a Persisted Kitchen Finks or Glen Elendra Archmage. This is useful.)

Cards that 187, such as Uktabi Orangutan, Shriekmaw, Bone Shredder, Harmonic Sliver, Wickerbough Elder, Acidic Slime etc.
Cards that allow you to creep ahead in card advantage independent of what an opponent is doing, such as Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Wall of Blossoms, Mulldrifter, Sun Titan, Master of the Wild Hunt, etc.
Cards that keep you alive, such as Spike Feeder, Spike Weaver, Peacekeeper, Kitchen Finks, etc
Cards that can disrupt an opponent, such as Glen Elendra Archmage, Heartwood Storyteller, Ichneumon Druid, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Thalia, Linvala, Aven Mindcensor etc.
Cards that let you steal creatures, such as Sower of Temptation and Gilded Drake.
Something that allows you to reuse Tradewind Rider, such asScryb Ranger, Seedborn Muse, Murkfiend Liege, Quirion Ranger.
Something that allows you to Alpha-Stirke such as Murkfiend Liege... I can't really think of anything else.

I'm sure there are role fillers that I haven't considered and I admit that this deck is far from completed and optimized, but I wanted to present the deck to the community to discuss. I've now played the deck in roughly 6 events, with an overall record of 17-3-3 where two of the draws are IDs and most all of the wins are against other, established decks.

Two things I'd like to focus on, other than general optimization is to find an impressive 5-cost creature to go along with Lark and Murkfiend Liege, Sadly Acidic Slime is currently near the top of the list, but there has to be something better. The second is to find a very strong 3-cost creature that is able to stand alone and impact an empty field. I tried out Knight of the Reliquary but the white is just too much of a problem and his impact on the game isn't that huge, this isn't GW. On that same note, I know that Sun Titan is greedy, but It seemed like an obvious inclusion to me and I've enjoyed having him in the deck.

With all of that said, I hope that some insights can be generated about what I think is a very fun, challenging*, interesting and high potential archetype.

*Seriously, this deck's decision trees make it among the hardest decks, if not the hardest I've ever played.

This is an evolution of old Survival decks. Previous versions also ran Fauna Shaman and Meriki to abuse the Rangers.

This new Birthing Pod build seems much stronger.

The overall problem is of course that this deck has 0 game against combo. It has slightly more game against Sneak Show, the current combo deck of choice.

I like the name... used to play this on MWS time to time (missing few to play on paper) and its real fun


// Lands
4 [ISD] Forest (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [R] Bayou
1 [R] Savannah
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
2 [CMD] Eternal Witness
4 [TE] Tradewind Rider
4 [ARC] Wall of Roots
4 [M12] Birds of Paradise
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [V10] Masticore
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
1 [BRB] Spike Weaver
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [EVG] Wood Elves
1 [10E] Viridian Shaman
2 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [US] Gilded Drake
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [M12] Llanowar Elves
1 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
1 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [VI] Quirion Ranger
1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
1 [UD] Academy Rector
1 [CHK] Yosei, the Morning Star
1 [EVE] Murkfiend Liege

// Spells
4 [NPH] Birthing Pod
2 [EX] Recurring Nightmare

I would think a full set of GSZ's plus some number of Hierarchs would be better than running any number of BoP or Wall of Roots, and maybe some Brainstorm to shuffle away an Arbor in case you draw it and want to GSZ for it. I mean, the lists run quite a bit of acceleration, and GSZ is really good since it accelerates and its a great topdeck even if your Tradewind Rider got killed and your Birthing Pod got countered.

I should comment something about the players (David Gómez and Sergi Herrero), since the former is me and the latter is the creator of the deck. I told him I would blatantly copy his deck because

a) it has Aluren creatures
b) it has a full playset of "Survival of the Fittest"; and
c) it has a combo kill involving Reveillark, which my Survival lists also shared

That said, I can contribute what he told me about the list. He came up with it with the idea of crushing any GW Zenith variant, and he (and I too) has always won the matchup, which means the deck does get its job done. Creature-based decks in general tend to lose to this, Zoo not so much when it gets a godly hand, but otherwise its fine. Dredge is also fine between 0/0 clones, Spikes and the like; if you get to stick a Weaver, you should win. Other combo decks and most forms of blue control tend to be bad matchups, though Glen Elendra Archmage is your best bet and can win the game single-handedly, especially with a clone next to her. Planeswalkers are painful bombs against us and explains why he runs SB Spell Pierce.

@ Master Shake: Sergi apparently didn't think about the creatures too thoroughly, most of them are just his favourites from his Survival times. He has also told me that the deck "doesn't kill", meaning it wins by having the opponent concede over multiple Tradewind activations and has the Reveillark combo mostly as a last resort.

He too faces the problem of the 5cc cost creature, he wants to have two, one of which is Reveillark. The other one, according to him, should be something useful both when you're winning and when you're losing, last time I talked with him he said he would probably stick with Acidic Slime again. He doesn't like Murkfiend Liege or Seedborn Muse because topdecking any of them in a bad board state doesn't solve anything, despite their synergy with Masticore and Tradewind Rider. He generally prefers Seedborn Muse because Reveillark can bring her back. When I played the deck I decided to solve this dilemma by running a second Reveillark: she's good whenever you draw her and also lets you cast the first one without worrying too much if she gets countered. Curiously, though, I've found myself boarding one when in doubt, and when watching Sergi play I've seen him boarding whatever 5cc he's running alongside Reveillark too, so this decision may be partially a product of his own paranoia. No amazing 3cc creatures are needed, by the way, since Tradewind Rider already fulfills that role.

The 1-of Zenith is actually an extra Quirion / Scryb Ranger slot and little else, and he tends to board it out when he doesn't know what to take, so it's true it could be cut entirely. In his words, "it doesn't really have anything good to find", which is why the initial full playset has gone down to a singleton.

Last time I played this deck I made some little changes to adapt it more to my tastes. The main issue I found with Green Sun's Zenith is that it can't find anything good simply because the best creatures in the deck aren't green. I also saw the way Glen Elendra Archmage destroys control and how Spell Pierce tends to fall short, especially now that Wrath of God only costs :w:, in addition to the fact that sometimes, the best way to take down a planeswalker is through another planeswalker. So, to the first list you've posted (the one I played) I made the following changes:

-1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
-1 Reveillark
-1 Green Sun's Zenith

+2 Chord of Calling
+1 Venser, the Sojourner

The sideboard includes an additional Glen Elendra Archmage, 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter, and I favor Negate over Spell Pierce. From what I've seen lately, I would probably go MD -1 Wall of Blossoms +1 Spellskite as well.

Venser is just one of the many things Sergi has been trying, so I don't know where his potential reaches yet. Chord is a favourite of mine from Aluren and I find it much more fitting for the deck, since it can find the real bombs, it does its job at instant speed, and with it the SB silver bullets make much more sense, not to mention how Wall of Roots is like a Ritual when it comes to paying it. Garruk is my personal bet against control because I feel Venser kinda falls short in that matchup, although I still lack experience overall.

Hope something from this wall of text enlightens you, anyway :smile:

If blue-based control is a problem, how about taking page out of Hulk Rebirth and running Carpet of Flowers and Xantid Swarm or City of Solitude in the SB? And from the crazy-enough-it-might-actually-work department there is Chalice of the Void which as a bonus helps against combo as well.

impressive 5-cost creature - try http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/ca...ltiverseid=135

So, I've been playing around with a couple different configurations of the deck and I wish that I had more space in the deck to play with. So far, these are some of my thoughts:

RecPod - On the surface, Recurring Nightmare seemed really powerful with the top end of Yosei seeming quite blah, when I started playing with the deck I was finding that often I really wasn't often impressed with what Recurring Nightmare was doing with one key exception - When the Yosei lock was available.
In many ways, the Yosei lock is much cleaner and efficient than then Triskelion combo kill, because it goes straight up the Pod Curve, and takes an average of one fewer activation to get there. Finding a win that only involves me going up the curve with Pod is really important for me, and this seems to be one of the best available options at the moment, but I hope that something pops out at me soon.
I intend to take a build much like Sloshthedark's into a weekly event soon, unless something really pops out at me. My current list is looking like:

4 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs

2 Eternal Witness
4 Tradewind Rider
4 Wall of Roots
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Reveillark
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Spike Weaver
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wood Elves
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Phantasmal Image
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Academy Rector
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rofellos, Llanowr Emissary
1 Spike Feeder
1 Acidic Slime
1 Wickerbough Elder
4 Birthing Pod
2 Recurring Nightmare

The list is like 62 cards. I'm working on it.

On the Sideboard

The sideboard has been another source of a lot of grief for me. I'd like to play Negate to have more relevant cards later in the game, but you have to keep more mana open for it and it does nothing against decks like Belcher and presumably storm combo decks. This made me question if I should be trying to use Mindbreak Trap, considering it was free and did some of what I needed the sideboard to do. The Nature's Claim/Krosan Grips are positively mandatory, I wouldn't suggest ever trying to go below two. I've been keeping a sideboard plan that involves 2 Scavenging Ooze, 2 Jitte, a couple of utility creatures and then combo hate, and this has been working for me so far, but I'm left feeling like I'm overboarding for some matches and it's hard for me to find the balance. Somehow I've been X-0 against Show and Tell decks, but that doesn't feel quite right to me.

The sideboard I'm currently using looks like this:

2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Jitte
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Masticore
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Heartwood Storyteller (Really trying to fit into the main)

According to my own rule, I need to try to cut a couple of cards for Grip, so it will likely be the Traps, cutting for another piece of graveyard hate or Pierce number 4 or for 3 Grips/Nature's Claim.


I'm still having a lot of fun and success with this list going something like 30-5-3 in tournaments thus far, but I feel like the deck is still far from being optimal, as a toolbox deck like this often does. I don't really have the time to dedicate to trying to get the deck to where it needs to be, but the problems I'm still feeling after the last couple of weeks are these:

I still feel like the 3cc slots are pretty weak. I would really like a 3cc Clone or something like Acidic Slime, but there is no way that is going to happen.

The Combo matches need a better plan than Spell Pierce, but there likely isn't even one available. Clique is generally ok at best - it isn't stellar at anything. I suppose I'd normally want copies of Mindcensor against combo, considering that it shuts down Intuition, Infernal and so forth, not to mention that it has splash applications against Stoneforge, GSZ and so forth.
I like that Recurring Nightmare can back-up a clone against Show and Tell considering you can't drop a clone in off Show and Tell and expect to kill anything. Black can give the option of Cabal Therapy in the board, but that would probably require further destabilization of the manabase.

Goblins and Elves are both nightmare matches, I hope to address this in the future.

I don't really see how it's possible to beat G/W with this deck consistently, let alone claim it to be favorable. All of their guys are good against the deck and if there is an Aven Mindcensor (or even worse, Linvala) involved the match becomes a nightmare.


I ended up with a bunch of free time, so I decided to start a list of creatures that I either really want to play or creatures that I think have worthwhile EtB effects or so forth. This is going to be a list that I personally maintain and try to sort out, suggested additions are welcome:

*quick disclaimer, I don't pretend that some of these cards are on the total fringe if playability.

EtB effect Creatures

1cc
Soul Warden
Essence Warden
Treefolk Harbinger
Sage of Epityr
Cathedral Sanctificatier

2cc
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Omens
Leonin Relic Warder
Temple Acolyte
Squadron Hawk
Lone Missionary
Elvish Visionary
Renegade Doppleganger
Stoneforge Mystic
Nest Invader
Lotus Cobra
Coiling Oracle
Stern Proctor

3cc
Fiend Hunter
Harmonic Sliver
Man-o-War
Mentor of the Meek
Wood Elves
Deceiver Exarch
Eternal Witness
Fierce Empath
Blade Splicer
Trinket Mage
Treasure Mage
Viridian Corrupter
Viridian Shaman
Uktabi Orangutan
Loaming Shaman
Stonecloaker
Kitchen Finks
Vendillion Clioque
Yavamaya Druid
Sea Gate Oracle
Tilling Treefolk
Hag Hedgemage
Bone Shredder
Selkie Hedgemage
Wispmare
Pestermite
Aven Riftwatcher
Caller of the Claw
Rishidan Cutpruse
Raven Familiar
Spike Feeder
Shardless Agent

4cc
Kozilek's Predator
Ranger of Eos
Masked Admirers
Mist Raven
Stonehorn Dignitary
Cytoplast Manipulator
Venser, Shaper Savant
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Nantuko Cultivator
Rishidan Footpad
Spike Weaver
Restoration Angel
Dungeon Geists
Sower of Temptation
Obstinate Baloth
Loxodon Hierarch
Nekkrataal
Glimmerpoint Stag
Emeria Angel
Bloodbraid Elf

5cc
Acidic Slime
Mulldrifter
Karmic Guide
Riftwing Cloudskate
Knight Captain of Eos
Deranged Hermit
Hollowhenge Scavenger
Razor Hippogriff
Indrik Stomphowler
Shriekmaw
Rishigan Brigand

6cc
Brutalizer Exarch
Sunblast Angel
Geralf's Mindcrusher
Grave Titan
Sun Titan
Primeval Titan
Inferno Titan
Frost Titan
AEthersnipe
Deadwood Treefolk
Admontion Angel
Roil Elemental
Twilight Shepperd

Other brief considerations:
Craterfoot Behemoth
Angel of Glory's Rise

Cards with Leaves the Battlefield effects

(Not yet researched very well)

Yosei, the Falling Star
Academy Rector
Veteran Explorer
Noble Benefactor
Revillark
Nevermaker
Aura Thief

Clones - Useful to clone things, often helps cheat mana costs for Pod.

Phantasmal Image
Phyrexian Metamorph
Clone
Sakashima, the Imposter
Sakashima's Student
Vesuvan Doppleganger
Vesuvan Shapeshifter

Mana Guys

Birds of Paradise
Noble Hierarch
Llanowar Elves
Magus of the Vineyard
Fyndhorn Elves
Wall of Roots
Quirion Ranger
Scryb Ranger
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Knight of the Reliquary

Useful Undying Guys

Strangleroot Geist
Kitchen Finks
Glen Eledra Archmage
Vorapede

Other Cards I find interesting/useful

Tradewind Rider
Triskelion
Masticore
Peacekeeper
Magus of the Moat
Havenwood Storyteller
Wickerbough Elder
Seedborn Muse
Murfkfiend Liege
Glen Elendra Archmage
Gaddock Teeg
Thalia
Ethersworn Cannonist
Meddling Mage
Scavenging Ooze
Aven Mindcensor

A bit of an exhaustive list. Hopefully this will end up near the end of page one so people are not always forced to look at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Goblins and Elves are both nightmare matches, I hope to address this in the future.

I don't really see how it's possible to beat G/W with this deck consistently, let alone claim it to be favorable. All of their guys are good against the deck and if there is an Aven Mindcensor (or even worse, Linvala) involved the match becomes a nightmare.

---

I didn't ignore the rest of your post, but this I feel more like responding.

I don't know about Elves, but assuming both normal opening hands, Goblins has to be on the play and start with a Lackey to have a chance of success. Any other line of play and they'll soon face Walls and Riders, the latter of which they must kill before they can be activated or they'll lose.

The only creature from GW you should be worried about is Knight of the Reliquary, which more often than not gets bounced or traded for Gilded Drake (bonus points if Scryb Ranger is there). If you get a Knight search Gaea's Cradle and half the game is yours. Tradewind Rider is a nightmare for them as well.

The rest of their creatures die to Masticore, including Mindcensor, though if it lands first it can be tricky to get anything. Don't forget SB Umezawa's Jitte, to them it's like Masticore in equipment form. Linvala seems tough, but she doesn't shut down Birthing Pod and is legendary, so copy her and enjoy your activations like nothing's happened.

If they have both Mindcensor and Linvala, well... the matchup is pretty favorable, but not necessarily an auto-win :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nonex

The only creature from GW you should be worried about is Knight of the Reliquary, which more often than not gets bounced or traded for Gilded Drake (bonus points if Scryb Ranger is there). If you get a Knight search Gaea's Cradle and half the game is yours. Tradewind Rider is a nightmare for them as well.

The rest of their creatures die to Masticore, including Mindcensor, though if it lands first it can be tricky to get anything. Don't forget SB Umezawa's Jitte, to them it's like Masticore in equipment form. Linvala seems tough, but she doesn't shut down Birthing Pod and is legendary, so copy her and enjoy your activations like nothing's happened.

If they have both Mindcensor and Linvala, well... the matchup is pretty favorable, but not necessarily an auto-win :wink:

---

I want to mention that Goblins does play Pyrokenesis which at minimum is a 3-for-2 against this deck.

The GW deck is far more consistent, while they can't actually find any of the problem creatures off GSZ, they play more draw (Horizion Canopy, Sylvan Library) actual removal (StP, Qasali Pridemage) more turn one acceleration (4 Noble Hierarch + 4 GSZ for Dryad arbor.) Mother of Runes to sneak past a table full of green guys. Everything they have comes on-line before Birthing Pod is active. I've played this match a few times now and I just think it's a write off - not even worth trying to improve because it's so unfavorable. When I bring in Jittes they bring in even more cards to shut me down.

I understand that your experiences have been vastly different, and I'm glad you've been successful against GW, but that is the polar opposite of my experience against the deck. Regardless, I still think it's wroth developing.

Hey guys, awesome lists, this deck seems like a blast to play.

I can figure out how to bounce and copy stuff and beat face is one way to victory, but for us not so initiated, could you please explain how to perform the different combo-wins you've mentioned. I mean, how to play them out, in practice.

In specific, I believe you've suggested
- "Triskelion-win"
- "reivelark combo"
- "Yusei something something"
- Did someone mention Saffi?

What is required in terms of cards available in play/in hand, and how much mana is required to initiate each?

I mean, surely one combo-win in the deck is enough, and surely some must be objectively superior to others?

Get Reveillark, have a Phantasmal Image copy her, then get Triskelion. How you get them is up to you, though Birthing Pod is the most reliable way.

Such an Image is essentially a Reveillark with 0 power in the graveyard, so it can reanimate itself with its ability. It also costs 5 on the battlefield, which Birthing Pod takes into account.

Once all three are there, Triskelion 1) pings your opponent; 2) pings itself; 3) pings Image. Upon removing the last counter, it dies as SBA because it dealt 1 damage to itself. Image triggers, dying as well. Return both with Image's ability, copying Reveillark. Rinse and repeat.

On its face, this seems like it would be too slow and board-dependant for legacy.

Fatestitcher is something you might consider since it can work well with Tradewind Rider and Birthing Pod.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear

Hey guys, awesome lists, this deck seems like a blast to play.

I can figure out how to bounce and copy stuff and beat face is one way to victory, but for us not so initiated, could you please explain how to perform the different combo-wins you've mentioned. I mean, how to play them out, in practice.

In specific, I believe you've suggested
- "Triskelion-win"
- "reivelark combo"
- "Yusei something something"
- Did someone mention Saffi?

What is required in terms of cards available in play/in hand, and how much mana is required to initiate each?

I mean, surely one combo-win in the deck is enough, and surely some must be objectively superior to others?

---

Yosei kill only applies if you are running Recurring Nightmare as well (a mistake/completely unneeded imo). It goes like this: you need a creature in the graveyard and RN in play. Cast Yosei and sacrifice it to RN. Opponent becomes tapped out. During your next turn replay RN and sacrifice the creature you got with RN the previous turn to get back Yosei. Replay RN again and sac. Yose to it. Opponent is tapped out for another turn. At this point people usually concede; if not, repeat until you kill them with something.
This kill is much less robust than the Triskellion one because the loop is sorcery-speed and -- more importantly -- it gives your opponent time to draw an answer (<=1 mana countermagic (for RN) or graveyard hate. The former can be somewhat mitigated if that other creature is Accademy Rector and you use it at some point to get another copy of RN).

I played this in a local tournament (15 people--I went 2-0-2, lost in top 4 due to play mistake, split for third place), after practicing (very little) online and in person over the course of like three days. As a result, I played slowly and badly.

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gilded Drake
0 Glen Elendra Archmage (couldn't find any, sadly)
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Masticore
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Scryb Ranger
0 Selkie Hedge-Mage (didn't like it in testing--my trops would get wasted and then I'd lose)
1 Trygon Predator
1 Spike Feeder
1 Spike Weaver
1 Triskelion
0 Wall of Blossoms (cut for Spellskite, as suggested)
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Reveillark
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tradewind Rider
4 Wall of Roots

1 Chord of Calling (I only have 1)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Birthing Pod

0 Gaea's Cradle (don't own any, but I figured I wouldn't draw it consistently anyway--I didn't miss it much)
1 Savannah
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest

SB:
3 Nature's Claim
3 Negate
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

I pretty much threw in what I had. I love the idea of Teferi saving me from countermagic, but he probably gets through early enough rarely enough to actually help. I love the card, though. Venser, I don't know when I would board in--I didn't, in the course of the day--but again, I love the card. Revoker would have been good, except I named Knight of the Reliquary instead of Qasali Pridemage. I boarded in Negate a good amount, but never saw one. I'm not totally sure when I'd want to board in Nature's Claim--it won't help against Sneak Attack, (right?) and I've got slower artifact/enchantment destruction against most decks. I mean, I'd put it in vs. Affinity or Enchantress or whatever, but that's kinda rare these days. Counterbalance is probably not much of a threat to me. When do I really need it?

In testing I felt like Wastelands + failure to draw pod meant I just lost. In some cases I'd draw enough birds and walls to survive off no land, but not drawing pod can be pretty bad. I tried to find a good tutor, and the best I came up with was Tezzeret, the Seeker. He costs 5, but immediately gets you a Pod/Masticore/Phyrexian Metamorph, or he gets you a revoker or spellskite and lives to untap things later on. I didn't end up playing it, but it seems ok.

I like the idea of playing Restoration Angel in future--seems like it could be better than Tradewind in some cases.

I tied to Gu Intuition Vengevine elves, beat Sneak and Show (game one show and tell--emrakul meets gilded drake, game 2 show and tell--griselbrand meets windswept health, next turn I draw the drake--ouch! He activates grisel twice to stop my drake + image, going down to 1 life before stomping me to death. game 3 I metamorph his progenitus and tradewind all his lands.), tied Maverick, beat Maverick (won game one, went to time game two). Lost to delver in top 4.

I love the deck. I definitely want Glen Elendra Archmage, and I wish I'd remembered to SB Jitte. I feel like there are some things I want to change about the deck, but I haven't figured out what they are yet. One thing is, I've been playing Nic Fit with Veteran Explorers, Therapy, lots of Witnesses, Recurring Nightmare, and Sun Titan so I'm not used to having to play conservatively with Witness/Reveillark. I want more outs to lots of counterspells. Teferi was supposed to help here, but didn't really. I also considered Defense Grid, but it didn't seem like it'd be enough.

I'd love to talk more about this, if anyone has thoughts.

I play a very similar list in Modern, where I believe the deck is better suited, overall.

A few things I have learner playing the list...

Deadeye Navigator is worth considering. The big drawback with it is that you need another specific creature to win with it and it costs more mana, both to cast and to win with. On the plus side, it is harder to remove, wins faster, and only requires one other creature to do its job.

Running one seems reasonable, obviously still alongside Tradewind Rider. You also need to include Venser and Acidic Slime to complete the method of victory, but it definitely does the job.

From there, including a singleton Restoration Angel is not a bad move.

Also, coming from having played modern combo-pod, a single Melira in the SB is also not terrible. Infinite Finks or Archmage can be excellent in certain matches.

Beyond that, the list runs essentially all of the best cards from the Modern list with Rider as an alternate win condition. I still would not play it in Legacy, as it does not work well against combo, but I would expect the suggestions here are at least worth taking a look at.

Anyone tried to update the list with 3-4 Thalia?

If combo was the deck's main concern, that might have changed.
If I had to choose what deck between this and Maverick, there would be no doubt in my mind which would be more fun.
Question is, could the deck be as good?

Hard to tell since no one's playing it except a chosen few, and personally I'm not very good at this game. Can't blame that on the deck ;)

It's like I died and went to 1998. Or was it '99? If you're looking for a good 5 drop, Thragtusk does some work.

I'd like to revive this thread because as of the recent past, an evolution of this deck has shown its presence in some tournaments.

Now dubbed "Most" (dont know why), this deck runs the same engine but uses GSZ and Fauna Shaman (instead of Pod) to call out our toolbox creatures

The Maverick thread recently discussed this: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...verick/page241

And here are some pages for reference:

TheCouncil decklist - http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...1&iddeck=69412
and http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=80256

with the report(in Italian unfortunately) found here: http://www.tipo1.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27255

ok, so i didn't know google had a page translator.

MOST stands for Merieke-Opposition-Survival-Tradewind

http://translate.google.com/translat...7255&sandbox=1

In a deck with Merieke, Tradewind Rider and Fauna Shaman it's plain stupid to not run some untap-effects like Quirion Ranger or Seedborn Muse.

All those lists are ergo half-assed attempts between Maverick and a Fauna-Shaman-toolbox which is not only slow as hell but also plain worse than Fauna Shaman + Quirion Ranger + Vengevine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

In a deck with Merieke, Tradewind Rider and Fauna Shaman it's plain stupid to not run some untap-effects like Quirion Ranger or Seedborn Muse.

All those lists are ergo half-assed attempts between Maverick and a Fauna-Shaman-toolbox which is not only slow as hell but also plain worse than Fauna Shaman + Quirion Ranger + Vengevine.

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I don't understand. Both lists buloid linked run Quirion Ranger + Scryb Ranger. They also run Murkfiend Liege instead of the Seedborn Muse you suggested.

Indeed missed the Liege. Ignore my post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Indeed missed the Liege. Ignore my post

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Prophet of Kruphix is also worth considering in place of Murkfiend Liege and Seedborn Muse.

yes a revival of ATS and yes Lemnear is right in saying that it's a variation of Maverick

what do you guys think?

quite a rogue deck honestly, but it's these decks that [sometimes] catches people unprepared and don't know what to board it against it.

I feel like if any deck is to be competitive it needs game against combo in the main deck. Thalia is a good option and same with canonist. blue gives access to spell pierces. Something is needed tho to be competitive.

If this isn't to be competitive, the list looks good, like an old survival toolbox.

Grabbed one of the lists buloid posted for Cockatrice and it's hilariously fun to play. It's also surprisingly good vs. other midrange decks. Where I really found it struggling was keeping creatures on the board through the early turns, either against tons of removal in RUG/UWR or active Jitte from Esper. I've been testing Plaxmanta, and so far it seems pretty good. Sylvan Safekeeper is another option for this effect, but I don't think we run the land count to support it. Right now it's living in the Trygon Predator spot, but that might not be correct.

I dropped the maindeck Teeg for Thalia, as it really feels like he holds us back more than the opponent by cutting off Zenith and Force. It may be correct to have neither in the main and just board into hatebears for combo.

I also swapped Murkfiend for Prophet of Kruphix, because giving all our guys flash is awesome and really helps speed things up in the late game. I just wish there was a more cost-effective version of this effect, it always seems that by the time I can cast a 5-drop, I've got control of the board anyway.

I also just realized how cute Skaab Ruinator is with Shaman...

I have to say, this deck is an absolute blast to play. Right now I'm trying to figure out which deck is more powerful, this or most. Pod is obviously insane, and once it's down can take over the game, but the fact that most runs forces and brainstorms is pretty attractive to me. Does anybody have any insight into the strengths and weaknesses of each deck? I'll try to find out for myself as I playtest them both more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Countertoplol

I have to say, this deck is an absolute blast to play. Right now I'm trying to figure out which deck is more powerful, this or most. Pod is obviously insane, and once it's down can take over the game, but the fact that most runs forces and brainstorms is pretty attractive to me. Does anybody have any insight into the strengths and weaknesses of each deck? I'll try to find out for myself as I playtest them both more.

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I find that either deck durdles for the first few turns trying to do three things:

a.) keep dorks alive
b.) pray that you get a landplay per turn
c.) pray you fish out a shaman or a zenith.

and in the last two points, emphasis on praying HARD.

I just find the games playing out for too long and this deck dies to combo. in a playtest last night, i lost to Tin-Fins (even with a Peacekeeper ready for the next turn) as the infinite recursion of Korlis + Griselbrand + entomb Emrakul for the re=shuffle just worked on the opponent's turn 1.

in another game, a resolved Peacekeeper kept a Merfolk deck at bay. I Spell Pierce'd a Jace, but took me 4-5 turns to lock the game with Gaddock and Spellskite. I was intending to tutor up Tradewind Rider the next turn but the Merfolk player conceded. The 1W tax on Peacekeeper honestly kept me from going nuts, but it saved my ass. A vapor snag or another jace would've been gg for me as I had no other outs than the long SPell Pierce i had in hand.

I find that the deck doesn't have enough early game threats or blockades (like a Baleful Strix or Goyf or a Smiter) to just hold aggro decks off, but i think 3-4 turns is all it needs to start it's setup to fully go off 1-2 turns later.

what have you guys experienced from playtesting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buloid

I find that either deck durdles for the first few turns trying to do three things:

a.) keep dorks alive
b.) pray that you get a landplay per turn
c.) pray you fish out a shaman or a zenith.

and in the last two points, emphasis on praying HARD.

I just find the games playing out for too long and this deck dies to combo. in a playtest last night, i lost to Tin-Fins (even with a Peacekeeper ready for the next turn) as the infinite recursion of Korlis + Griselbrand + entomb Emrakul for the re=shuffle just worked on the opponent's turn 1.

in another game, a resolved Peacekeeper kept a Merfolk deck at bay. I Spell Pierce'd a Jace, but took me 4-5 turns to lock the game with Gaddock and Spellskite. I was intending to tutor up Tradewind Rider the next turn but the Merfolk player conceded. The 1W tax on Peacekeeper honestly kept me from going nuts, but it saved my ass. A vapor snag or another jace would've been gg for me as I had no other outs than the long SPell Pierce i had in hand.

I find that the deck doesn't have enough early game threats or blockades (like a Baleful Strix or Goyf or a Smiter) to just hold aggro decks off, but i think 3-4 turns is all it needs to start it's setup to fully go off 1-2 turns later.

what have you guys experienced from playtesting?

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What you said is absolutely true. Both trade pod and most are ridiculous once the engine gets going, but it's so hard to get there. I've been playing both lists a lot, and in my opinion they just seem to take way too long to get going, which is kinda a death sentence in the current legacy environment.

Based on the games I've played, the shaman version feels a bit stronger, having access to force of will and brainstorm in addition to the creature toolbox have been stronger than pod in a lot of games. All in all, I feel like both versions of the deck are a bit underpowered, which makes me sad because I love the idea of a strong creature toolbox deck.

I wish survival would get unbanned.

Nic Pod [http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=60221] is a deck in similar vein (albeit not as cool) that addresses a lot of shortcomings of Trade Pod.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

I also swapped Murkfiend for Prophet of Kruphix, because giving all our guys flash is awesome and really helps speed things up in the late game. I just wish there was a more cost-effective version of this effect, it always seems that by the time I can cast a 5-drop, I've got control of the board anyway...

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How the testing of Prophet of Kruphix is going on? Did he won you games whereas Murkfiend would not? On paper I like the prophet too but I'm a bit concerned because he's in bolt range; Murkfiend, on the other hand, it's out of bolt and helps your other creature stay out of punishing fire range.

What do you think is more relevant, the bigger body and the "protection" to the other creatures or the ability to untap all creatures and lands and flash?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DireLemming

Nic Pod [http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=60221] is a deck in similar vein (albeit not as cool) that addresses a lot of shortcomings of Trade Pod.

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seems to be a broken link. would you mind posting the URL again?

thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buloid

seems to be a broken link. would you mind posting the URL again?

thanks!

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Just remove the trailing "]": http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=60221


BTW here is an article he posted on SCG: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...At-SCGMKE.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

How the testing of Prophet of Kruphix is going on? Did he won you games whereas Murkfiend would not? On paper I like the prophet too but I'm a bit concerned because he's in bolt range; Murkfiend, on the other hand, it's out of bolt and helps your other creature stay out of punishing fire range.

What do you think is more relevant, the bigger body and the "protection" to the other creatures or the ability to untap all creatures and lands and flash?

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By the time you drop either one of these guys, you should have a good board position that includes Moms already, so I don't think bolt is much of a concern. The pumps provided by Murkfiend make him a better finisher, but Prophet gives you so much more value by untapping all your creatures and lands. I think there's still room for debate, but on paper I'm definitely leaning towards Prophet. The bigger question to me is whether we need that kind of effect, or if we'd be better served by some kind of finisher in that spot, or if we need to have a 5-drop at all. I always find myself having to spend a turn fetching up extra Hierarchs/Birds to even get to 5 mana...at that point I'm not sure I wouldn't just rather have a Thrun or True-Name to beat down while I tie up the board.

Also a way to win through our own Peacekeeper would be nice. That card is a boss in certain matchups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

It's like I died and went to 1998. Or was it '99? If you're looking for a good 5 drop, Thragtusk does some work.

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Put some Recurring nightmares somewhere and it would be quite a spicy meatball.

Played this weekend to a 1-3 finish. Lost to Dark Maverick, Team America/BUG Delver, and Junk. Won against bye. This deck is hilariously fun, but Jesus it's horrible right now. Everyone has Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution in the board, and we just don't have anything that deals with that except Murkfiend, which comes down too late. Maybe more counters or something.

it pains me to hear that our pet deck got that result.

maybe now's just not its time given the attention TNN and elves have gotten recently. it'll have it's time im sure, just not at the moment.

i'm just going to keep playing this deck on Cockatrice or IRL if i manage to get some pikulas (no alara ones for me) and the blue duals.

I mean there's also the fact that I'm generally bad at Magic and I have no effing clue how to play this deck yet, but with half the manabase being 0/1s, an early Jitte/Charm/Persecution is a huge setback. I will say that I won one game because I basically flooded on lands and had an early hardcast Prophet. Untapping all my lands and giving guys flash was actually huge, but that was also a deck without Bolts, so make of it what you will.

Hello everybody!
I'm one of italian most players that use the deck since SotF, following the evolution of this concept in many different version (with pod, with brainstorm and fow, ecc). I've collected some tops in 50-60 players tournament in Italy, but too many tops lost for bad luck (yeah, i know that everyone says that, but in my case it's true ^^).
Most is the most (lol) complicated and Skill-intensive deck that you ever experienced, and after 3 years and half still there are ways to improve my skill with the deck: but after the first (hard) steps you could find a incredibly flexible deck that has only few (but important) weak points:
-Punishing Fire, the most serious
-Terminus, less worrisome
-Fast combo like TES/Belcher/Only Spells
-Old Card like Humility, Cursed Totem ecc

It has no impossible MU other than Aggro Loam (not so played, anyway) but, on the other hand, you have no auto-win MU (most positive are Tribals (Elves, Merfolks, Elves), Bug -very positive- and slow combo like S&T). This is the list from my last recorded top:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=85893

Hope to have planted a little seed of this gorgeous and unique deck and sorry for my baaaaad english :frown: