UW Sanctuary (Helm/RiP combo)

Influenced by this article over as SCG, I began looking into this combo.

How it works:

With Rest in Peace in play, no card can hit the graveyard. With Helm of Obedience, the process repeats until X cards hit the graveyard. So, when you use the Helm, seeing as the "card in graveyard" condition is not met, the process repeats to exile your opponent's library.

Decklist:

Provided here is a basic decklist for the concept:

Lands:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Plains
4 Island
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Combo:

4 Rest in Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

Spells:

4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Energy Field
4 Force of Will
2 Remand
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gilded Light
4 Ponder
4 meta slot

SB:

4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Flusterstorm
4 Pithing Needle

Thoughts and critiques are, as always, appreciated.

NB: I'm not sure if Daze would be a batter card for the deck, with such a low curve. I know that's it's almost cold to a Chalice@1 main, and I'm not sure what to do about that.

With the development of this deck I just want to make a reminder saying that Energy Field doesn't protect you from "lose life" spells like Tendrils of Agony. So I think the Storm matchup should be kept in mind as well or the possible Tendrils coming in from the board of Omniscience. So we should try to see if the deck can find and execute its combo as fast as said decks, or if it has adequate protection against such decks.

Web of Inertia becomes interesting with Rest in Peace in play.

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

---

Read Planar Void. Learn Magic the Gathering. Then get back to us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

---

Planar Void is triggered: Leyline is a replacement effect. The Wheel is an alternative to assist with Energy Field, and you can enchant yourself so that you never get milled, due to the Replacement Effect rules, so that you can still have no damage taken.

I do, however, agree that it's probably not correct. I was looking at Solitary Confinement or Greater Auramancy as possibilities in that slot.

Head Planar Void isn't a replacement effect like RIP and Leyline... anyway...

I don't think running 4 Helm's is correct when you can have access to them with enlightened tutor. I was thinking of more of a control shell like this:


4 enlightened tutor
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Energy Field
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vedalken Shackles
4 Force of Will
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ancestral Vision


Obviously not sure on ALL of those (may want more Swords main, and Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict in the board) - but seems like you can stall enough to get energy field down, RIP, and tutor for helm. Having 4 Helms just takes up SO much space when you can easily tutor for it.

My take anyway.

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

---

One of the other lists I had jotted down ran 1 CB main, along with 3 tops. Probably depends on how insane Abrupt Decay becomes as to whether it is in the main, or the sideboard since it is SO good in some matchups

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .dk

One of the other lists I had jotted down ran 1 CB main, along with 3 tops. Probably depends on how insane Abrupt Decay becomes as to whether it is in the main, or the sideboard since it is SO good in some matchups

---

Abrupt Decay is strong, no doubt. But its strict color requirement will limit its play to AT MOST 15% of the decks in Legacy. CB/top is still a solid lock against RUG and Burn and Combo etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

Abrupt Decay is strong, no doubt. But its strict color requirement will limit its play to AT MOST 15% of the decks in Legacy. CB/top is still a solid lock against RUG and Burn and Combo etc.

---

Seems reasonable, yeah. Maybe in my list, cut the Supreme Verdicts for 1 more Swords and 1 Counterbalance. Although that list might be a little heavy on 2 drops for a Counterbalance curve. Will have to get testing, I suppose...

Using my current version of :ug: enchatress I have created an enchantress version of a RiP / Helm deck here. I felt the enchantress approach was different enough to warrant it's own thread in lieu of derailing this one. Stop over if you care.

For what it's worth, I would definitely run O-Ring/Detention Sphere as E-Tutor target, probably even an EE. Stuff like Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker and Gaddock Teeg ruin you.

That said, what about alternate win conditions? Either Jace or something else.

Why would this deck run remand over spell peirce?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

---

Yeah, clearly I only wrote that article because the thing I care most about is how to sell cards for SCG. They also send me weekly updates of cards they don't manage to sell as many of as they'd like to just so I write something that'll make people buy those.

As to more enjoyable topics:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

---

Check my list from the article linked above :p

@K-Run: I think Energy Field is probably enough and much better to draw than Web of Inertia when you don't yet have a RIP (you can still buy multiple turns with it, especially if you're only Fetching basics so they can't Wasteland you). It also opens you up to dieing to the RIP-trigger getting Stifled.

@Darkenslight: Your list is an interesting approach for a more combo-focused version. Not sure if going for a fast kill is worth it, though, given that E-Field/RIP already stops most aggressive decks dead and that you'll just always be slower than other combo-decks just because helm costs five.
Your meta-slots should always include a Needle, an ORing/Detention Sphere and a Humility imo. Needle and Humility will allow you to lock out the few probable MD answers like Pridemage, EE and Deed (often one of these is the only answer a lot of decks have to Field/RIP in the MD). ORing is just necessary to deal with Planeswalkers and Show and Tell, I think, and one of the better outs to Teeg (which in your current list is just GG as long as your opponent has more cards in his deck than you do).

Gilded Light seems pointless in your list (why not run more countermagic?) and Remand is questionable, one of the 1-cost counters or even Daze should just be better.

@.dk: Not sure what you'd need Verdict for. If you lock them, you don't need a Wrath and Verdict doesn't even work as an out for Teeg. Porphyry Nodes seems like it would be good in this deck, though. Eats up whatever is hanging around in front of the EField in case they draw an out and will deal with Teeg eventually so you can Helm them.

@Barook: I agree that this needs some form of alternate wincon, though Jace has been surprisingly bad so far (other than when I was hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge). I've actually started to consider a singleton Luminarch Ascension - good against control, tutorable, drops through Teeg and combos with EField even before you have a RIP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mon,Goblin Chief

@.dk: Not sure what you'd need Verdict for. If you lock them, you don't need a Wrath and Verdict doesn't even work as an out for Teeg. Porphyry Nodes seems like it would be good in this deck, though. Eats up whatever is hanging around in front of the EField in case they draw an out and will deal with Teeg eventually so you can Helm them.

---

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Those 2 Verdicts should probably be 1 Counterbalance and 1 Swords. I'm not sure Porphyry Nodes is needed maindeck if you are running Shackles, though. You can easily steal Teeg and swing it into their creatures as well. Seems like potentially a good sideboard option against SnT decks, however, since E-field doesn't get around Annhilator triggers.

I've been playing this list to some success:

// Lands
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [UNH] Island
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Spells
3 [RTR] Rest in Peace
1 [TE] Humility
2 [AL] Helm of Obedience
2 [US] Energy Field
1 [M10] Pithing Needle
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
4 [COM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RTR] Detention Sphere

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Removal
SB: 1 [MM] Energy Flux
SB: 4 [COM] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

I'm definitely thinking of making tweaks, as it's quite soft to Teeg + MOM. (Maybe Porphyry Nodes?) It's phenomenal against graveyard decks, so I see no need for LotV. It's also a killer against Show and Tell since you can tutor for detention spheres. Energy Field also stops a lot of aggro decks cold. This deck definitely has potential, but does require a fair bit of work as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mon,Goblin Chief

@Darkenslight: Your list is an interesting approach for a more combo-focused version. Not sure if going for a fast kill is worth it, though, given that E-Field/RIP already stops most aggressive decks dead and that you'll just always be slower than other combo-decks just because helm costs five.
Your meta-slots should always include a Needle, an ORing/Detention Sphere and a Humility imo. Needle and Humility will allow you to lock out the few probable MD answers like Pridemage, EE and Deed (often one of these is the only answer a lot of decks have to Field/RIP in the MD). ORing is just necessary to deal with Planeswalkers and Show and Tell, I think, and one of the better outs to Teeg (which in your current list is just GG as long as your opponent has more cards in his deck than you do).

Gilded Light seems pointless in your list (why not run more countermagic?) and Remand is questionable, one of the 1-cost counters or even Daze should just be better.

---

Hence why I wasn't 100% on the list, and the fact that it was a basic list: The Remands could easily become Orings or Journey to Nowhere.

The main reason for Remands (and I was willing to be overruled on this) was because you're more interested in the delaying aspect of Remand than the one-turn setback that Daze involves. In my build, it's pretty important to make your land drops. In an Enchantress shell, it's somewhat less important, as you have access to cards like [cards]Utopia Sprawl[/card]. I was looking at the possibility of the new Keyrunes as a potential ramp/creature hybrid.

The Gilded lights are there mostly for the countering of Tendrils, which is why I recommended Confinement as a SB slot. Also, the Lights aren't completely dead in other matchups: for example, most people are playing discard (from Dredge to BUG Delver to Nic Fit). The cycling allows me to pitch it for another card in a pinch, which can occasionally be relevant.

deleted

deleted

I'm not sure why you aren't running both Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void, if your combo is based around the interaction with Helm of the Leyline. 8/4 pieces for assembling the combo is more consistent than 4/4, and it gives you some serious gravehate against the majority of the format. I mean seriously, I can't think of very many decks these days that don't use their graveyard in at least some way.

Although I suppose if you're going alot heavier on the Board Control plan and plan to play the long and grindy game until you assemble you're combo, you might not need as many combo pieces. My only concern at that point would be: why not just play a better Control deck (Miracles) that has two different I-Win cards that don't actually need to combo together to win (Entreat and Jace)?

Also, mana acceleration is pretty mandatory for this combo to even be worth it. At least with an opening Leyline, you're looking at a 2 card 4 mana combo. With RIP, you become a 2 card 6 mana combo. Mox Diamond + Land Tax could be interesting, but the Sol Lands work too.

Don't you have to pay at least 1 to activate Helm of Obedience?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by (nameless one)

Don't you have to pay at least 1 to activate Helm of Obedience?

---

Yes

@ghkreiger

Hi!
I'm the ebayer I bought you the 3 helms!

@ Rest
I'm thinking on 2 archetypes if not 3 of this deck:

- Control Shell, as the Article of Starcity games, not bad designed deck. Still testing.

- Combo Oriented with city of traitors Lands and more acceleration

- In Parfait, this new build I'm focus still did not have a proper win cond, now it has.

I suggest to visit that Threat Deck Parfait.
I at least will definately run that combo in Parfait but by the moment 1 - 1 and 4 E. Tutors.

About c.b.:
I would not recommend running c.b. if it is not strictly neccessary, sure running 4 senseis and e.tutor is great, but you'll find that:
Nic Fit, UBG, The New Black Canadian, TES and Combo Archetypes includidng green for that splash will now crash you with c.b.
So the way will be playing more hard counters in the form of c.s.

Pure Control as Stanstill always had 2 main problems: Burn and Recursion, problems solved via Cunning mainly or Good Side,
Cunterbalance prevents this, however the Control rol can now be reinvented, going into a Pure Control Role (via hard counters instead of c.b. ) going well vs recursion (because of Rest) and still having a way to get Silver Bullets, Via E.Tutor. etc, etc.

All these are just thinkings, however I have to test all this Balance, No balance, Combo Oreinted, etc...

By the moment a 1 - 1 In Parfait is key, All I can say.

Just found this thread (Thanks Tao) and figured I would share what I think is the most optimal list so far:


// Lands
1 Plains
4 Tundra
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta

// Spells
4 Terminus
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience
3 Spell Snare
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Spell Pierce
1 Humility

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Vedalken Shackles
SB: 4 Energy Field
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring


This still needs work (auromancy in SB?) but i would feel comfortable taking to to a tourney tomorrow if i had it ready. It has been incredibly strong, and with tops, and all the shuffles I have had games where i drop 5-6 combo pieces no problem when fighting through hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Technics

Just found this thread (Thanks Tao) and figured I would share what I think is the most optimal list so far:


// Lands
1 Plains
4 Tundra
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta

// Spells
4 Terminus
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience
3 Spell Snare
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Spell Pierce
1 Humility

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Vedalken Shackles
SB: 4 Energy Field
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring


This still needs work (auromancy in SB?) but i would feel comfortable taking to to a tourney tomorrow if i had it ready. It has been incredibly strong, and with tops, and all the shuffles I have had games where i drop 5-6 combo pieces no problem when fighting through hate.

---

Thanks for that list, Technics! The only thing I'd suggest is the possibility of Stifle over Snare or Pierce. I also think that CB, while useful, isn't the right card for this deck, on account of the vast majority being 1 CMC, which hits mostly discard and Hierarchs (with the notable exception being Elves!)

Note: the problem with CB isn't that it's a powerful card. It is. It's just much more a meta call than it was. If you're in a heavy Storm/Elves meta, then sure, go ahead. If you're in a Dredge/Merfolk-heavy meta, then it'll be much less useful.

Played a match with this list against RUG, quick observations. Terminus feels like it could have been better as an Energy Field. You need that slot to gain time against aggro. Energy Field is easier to cast than Terminus (less mana intensive considering the setting up). Also the manabase felt a little shaky. I think it needs more lands and more basics.

If you want to make this a control deck I would look at this deck as a tested basis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Technics

Just found this thread (Thanks Tao) and figured I would share what I think is the most optimal list so far:


// Lands
1 Plains
4 Tundra
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta

// Spells
4 Terminus
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience
3 Spell Snare
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Spell Pierce
1 Humility

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Vedalken Shackles
SB: 4 Energy Field
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring


This still needs work (auromancy in SB?) but i would feel comfortable taking to to a tourney tomorrow if i had it ready. It has been incredibly strong, and with tops, and all the shuffles I have had games where i drop 5-6 combo pieces no problem when fighting through hate.

---

Rergarding to the list I think it has some lear mistakes:
this decks it is shut up by a resolved teeg, simple, we can't afford this.
Also swords should belong to the main, I would add some more jace (I'd like to see in can afford 4 main. we need c.a.!) and I'd like to discuss the number of e.tutor combo pieces in the control shell.
I think the most optimal is:
4 e.tutor
3 R. In peace
2 Helm.

Next I think I will play
3 senseis
3 Terminus
4 swords

Regarding the Counters Package:
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 FoW
at least is a must

4 c.b. seems to be the norm as well, but at this point I will change the number of c.b. accordingly to hard counters and/or more key cards for E.Tutor and/or snapcasters. Still not sure.

And as playing 4 E. Tutors 3 should be the cards we should play at least:
1 Humilty
1 Moat
1 The New Great Oblivion Ring - this makes the puzzle vs Teeg in conjuntion with swords
1 Maybe E.E. not sure if neccesary

That what I've been thinking, the deck from starcity is the nearest idea in my opinion about what I intend on a control shell.
Reference to Control Shell:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...-The-City.html

hello guys, i liked very much the idea of the deck, because its a fair combo that can be played at any time and kill from nowhere. and all of that with FoW protection. its a really powerful idea.

but i think that we cant be like Miracle Control and sit there waiting our combo. we need to go very fast if required, kinda like Hive Mind or Omni-Tell.

After giving it further thought, I've coem to the conclusion that this list:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkenslight

Lands:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Plains
4 Island
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Combo:

4 Rest in Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

Spells:

4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Energy Field
4 Force of Will
2 Remand
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gilded Light
4 Ponder
4 meta slot

SB:

4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Flusterstorm
4 Pithing Needle

---

is wrong. The Gilded Lights have been surprisingly relevant. Perordain, however, have been remarkably underwelming, as have the Remands. I think that we only really need 2 of Helm, which opens us up for a slightly more toolbos approach. With this in mind, the changes I've made are:

-2 Helm of Obedience
-2 Remand
-4 Preordain

+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Powder Keg
+1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Detention Sphere
+1 Phyrexian Metamorph
+2 other (Possibly Supression Field)

SB:

-1 Pithing Needle
+1 Vendilion Clique.

I do think it's a good idea to work with the Top/Counterbalance package. I think this could be an improved version of CounterThopter. The Thopter combo takes up time and mana, this combo just kills you immediately.

This makes Enlightened Tutor a better card because it helps assemble two combos and makes it much easier to assemble one of two combos in the early turns in some matchups.

It's nice to have a good plan vs. Show and Tell decks. Resolve a RIP, get Helm in hand and leave one mana open. Omniscience can't get around you. Petals kill won't work and the extra Emrakul turn kills them.The same has happened to Omni players who were facing Belcher, where they lose when the belcher player gets access to using three mana without casting any more spells and they have a Charbelcher in hand.

A Counterbalance deck needs a good curve for countering stuff. There are plenty of one drops with Tutor, Brainstorm, Swords and Top. Counterbalance and RIP on two. I would try a couple of Counterspells for rounding out the two drops and having more hard counters. Then add some Cliques and maybe a good artifact like Ensnaring Bridge to search up, which you can also put on top of your deck for CB. 2 Jace and 2 Helm round out the four drops.

This particular combo deck interacts with the rest of the format's combo decks and seems to have a good match-up against all of them. Counterbalance is a disaster for storm decks, Bridge is a disaster against Sneak Show, RIP is great against grave-based strategies like Dredge and Reanimator while also threatening against Omniscience when you could have a Helm in hand to win. It even has game against Belcher because of Fow and CB for later tries. This doesn't mean it beats all of them consistently, although it looks good in theory.

I would build something like this:

4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Counterbalance
3 Rest in Peace
2 Counterspell
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 new UW wrath
4 Force of Will

23 lands including Karakas. Lots of fetchlands for optimal Top and Brainstorms and a bunch of basics which is easy as a UW deck. Possibly a sol land or two for quick Helms or Jaces but I don't think it's really necessary. There are 20 blue cards to support Force.

I like how this deck can ignore Pithing Needle where more dedicated RIP/Helm lists have trouble with that card. Here you can either use Helm to win or get CB/Top and win with Jace.

I like the thinking everybody is coming up with, but I want to see it all backed up by actual testing. I've played two dozen matches with the following list:

// Lands
8 [UNH] Island
2 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Spells
2 [AL] Helm of Obedience
2 [US] Energy Field
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [RTR] Rest in Peace
2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
4 [COM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
1 [US] Back to Basics

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 4 [COM] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 [ZEN] Luminarch Ascension
SB: 1 [TE] Humility

Detention Sphere has pretty insane against S&T, but maybe I have a couple too many. Overall my bad match-up seems to be Qasali Pridemage (Maverick/Bant) decks. Not sure what can be done to fix this, other than maybe Needle main. I'd say the flex slots are 1 D-Sphere, and maybe the Spell Pierces. It would be nice to fit in some additional Energy Fields/Humilties/Moats/Ensnaring Bridges though, but the list is very tight.

One important note is I have taken all as many nonbasics as possible, due to Wasteland and Energy Field. I haven't had any mana problems, and we have answers to Emrakul anyways.

With the ultimate goal of essentially casting 5 CMC artifact, AND opponents will likely be attempting to go big over Counter Balance where is the lomg since forgotten Mana Drains?

It looks juicy in a counter war if you nail a Force too.

editOops banned nevermind.

Some variation of this list will most likely get enlightened tutor banned, seeing how RIP nukes all graveyards, it smashes 2/3 top decks and shuts down snapcaster and lingering souls. This will lead to a rise of goblins and Merfolk, which have no graveyard reliance, which ultimately leads to the rise of zoo.

Then enlightened tutor gets banned and we get to back up to today like it never happened.

Long story short If you really want zoo to be playable again, play this deck.

Would Scepter-Chant be good alongside RIP/Helm? Chant/Silence seem like great ways to protect the combo, are in your color, and provide an alternative route to victory. Enlightened Tutor is already a heavy emphasis, why not splash 1-2 Scepters in there to create a hard lock, giving you all the time in the world to set up RIP/Helm?

Just a crazy-ass idea...I love the deck concept and I really can't argue against the new blue Wrath and Jace as your power plays. Playing a 2-card combo makes me think that this is what Vintage must be like...but only from impression, I don't actually play vintage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by K-Run

Web of Inertia becomes interesting with Rest in Peace in play.

---

I actually think this is better than Energy Field since it stops Emrakul from attacking. Its not like Burn can't be stopped by CounterTop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akatsuki

I like the thinking everybody is coming up with, but I want to see it all backed up by actual testing. I've played two dozen matches with the following list:

// Lands
8 [UNH] Island
2 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Spells
2 [AL] Helm of Obedience
2 [US] Energy Field
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [RTR] Rest in Peace
2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
4 [COM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
1 [US] Back to Basics

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 4 [COM] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 [ZEN] Luminarch Ascension
SB: 1 [TE] Humility

Detention Sphere has pretty insane against S&T, but maybe I have a couple too many. Overall my bad match-up seems to be Qasali Pridemage (Maverick/Bant) decks. Not sure what can be done to fix this, other than maybe Needle main. I'd say the flex slots are 1 D-Sphere, and maybe the Spell Pierces. It would be nice to fit in some additional Energy Fields/Humilties/Moats/Ensnaring Bridges though, but the list is very tight.

One important note is I have taken all as many nonbasics as possible, due to Wasteland and Energy Field. I haven't had any mana problems, and we have answers to Emrakul anyways.

---

Pretty close to where I'm moving at the moment, I really like that list. I think the MD Needle is too good to not play (makes it really easy to lock out Maverick where otherwise it's really hard due to the Zeniths and has additional utility against Planeswalkers/Sneak Attack).
I've been trying a Future Sight as a tutorable way to match Jace-advantage and sometimes it has been awesome, sometimes lackluster. I'm unconvinced this deck actually needs four StPs, I'd replace one with a Porphyry Nodes (allows you to slowly clean the board against a Teeg plus Moms after setting up RIP/Field) and see how many others I can remove before creatures become a problem. The Field-lock has been that good.
Also, as bad as it is against Wasteland, I always want a single artifact land to tutor for, has come up a lot already and I remember how important being able to get mana was with ThopterFoundry.

Hmm, I like Future Sight for the sole reason that you can e-tutor it to counter FOW when CB is out. I'll take a look into it. There have definitely been times where I'd have liked a Seat of the Synod (and times when I wanted Academy Ruins!)... I'll test SotS some more since it seems a lot more consistent than having one ofs of Karakas/Academy Ruins.

BTW, my friend moscowdemon listened to me and played my list and won a Trial at Magic-league with my list! :smile:

http://www.magic-league.com/deck/786...%20Pieces81982

2nd Legacy trial in a row won by RIP :) This time I was the pilot.

www.magic-league.com/deck/78645/legacy.html