So thoughts and evaluations from the community on Spirit of the Laybyrinth (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...d=1390194288)? Best brainstorm hate card ever printed? Will this card give Death and Taxes and/or Maverick another push? Discuss.
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So thoughts and evaluations from the community on Spirit of the Laybyrinth (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...d=1390194288)? Best brainstorm hate card ever printed? Will this card give Death and Taxes and/or Maverick another push? Discuss.
This is a hard card to evaluate.
So which "cards -> strategies" are hated by this card:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90
- Brainstorm (Hymn myself) -> 80% of the format
- Sorceryspeed cantrips -> Blue control
- Sensei's Divining Top -> Miracles
- Griselbrand -> Sneak&Show, Reanimator
- Enter the Infinite -> Omnitell
- Sylvan Library -> Jund, Maverick, Team America
- Carefull Study, Faithless Looting etc -> Dredge, Reanimator
- Glimpse of Nature, Elvish Visionairy -> Elves
...
Pretty good. First True-Name Nemesis, now this.. It makes me sad.
Elf decks. It stops both Glimpse of Nature and the Elvish Visionary + Wirewood Symbiote engine. So you'll force them to either go for Natural Order or Green Sun's Zenith to fetch the Craterhoof Behemoth.
TNN was a terrible addition to the format. This is a very positive one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
Sorcery speed cantrips are also played in Tempo and combo. It doesn't do too much against SDT.
How does it interact with Dredge?
It breaks Carefull Study, Breakthrough, Faithless Looting. Every enabler of the deck except for the natural draw phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
EDIT: I'm overreacting. The enchantment creature still has a converted manacost of 2. So Dredge and combo would've already used their cantrips/enablers.
Fantastic addition to the format. Will certainly help Death and Taxes and Maverick but I'm unfamiliar with both of those decks so I don't know if they have room for it. It seems like a card that you would "make room" for, considering how ubiquitous Brainstorm is.
As an X/1 it is affected by True-Name Nemesis-hate splash damage, though. Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution have never been more popular and this card dies to those just the same. Not to use the dumb "it dies to everything" argument but the tools are there to keep it in check. I foresee it being a player, but not a warping influence like TNN.
Maverick can easily make room for 4 SoL maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Superior
Also, once SoL resolves, you have to already have Golgari Charm/TNN splash hate in hand, otherwise, you are a slave to your natural draw step as you can no longer fire off a cantrip or two and dig for your answer. Remember too that SoL will often be played in decks running Mom, so SoL will often be protected from Bolt/StP/targeted removal, leaving you only with non-targeted removal as a means to kill dudes and only if the spell is already in hand when SoL hits play.
Maybe with something cute like Winds of Change, or as a specific sideboard card.
The thing is, that, at 2cc it seems unlikely to stop the other guy's first brainstorm or many other cantrips.
SoL can't let you draw extra cards, ergo you can't skip that draw for Winds. Do I miss something?Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
The idea was likely to make both players discard their hands. Sweet Mind Twist, someone will surely try that somewhere sometime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Even though I like the card and the obvious intention behind it, I have to say that it's very easy to overestimate it. Its impact on the format will not be as big as some might think. Contrary to the general perception, Blue and specifically draw effects like Brainstorm aren't as dominant as people use to think. Decks like Jund, Junk, Goblins, NicFit, Merfolk etc. are still not uncommon and this new card barely hurts these. You just can't afford to run cards that hardly do anything in a good amount of matchups. In Legacy, a important criteria for the validity of a card is its applicability in a preferably wide range of matchups and this card does certainly not fulfill this.
Almost, the opp. will draw one card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
On a side note, this certainly illustrates how much influence these internet discussions actually have on their new cards design. The demand of a Brainstorm-Hatebear has been roaming for quite some time in the forums and I'm fairly certain that this exact card had been suggested by the other user in a card creation thread.
It's Massacre time.
Of course when you throw a million ideas to your left and right, at some point you are bound to score, by accident if nothing else. This tells nothing about how the community has any control over the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa
Yeah, this isn't a case of monkeys writing Shakespeare; this is monkeys talking about what books would be cool while in another room, Shakespeare is working on As You Like It.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I think it's a very solid hatebear (hatecat) that will help to make those so-called 'fair decks' a little more 'unfair' in that they game the 'unfair' decks into playing 'roughly as fair' as they are playing. Or something like that.
Blue and Brainstorm are at an all time high thanks to TNN. According to thecouncil, those non-blue decks you cite (Goblins isn't even a thing anymore, btw) didn't even crack the top 10 decks for December 2013. In fact, 9 out of the top 10 decks for December 2013 would get hosed by Spirit of the Labyrinth (the only 1 that wouldn't would be Death and Taxes... which would likley be the only deck among those top 10 to run Spirit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa
I'm not quite understanding what you think "a good amount of matchups" means. The data clearly shows that blue is seeing a ton of play and non-blue decks are falling off the map.
I'm salty. I get mauled by this and I don't even play blue. :/
I believe the best fit for this hatecat is probably Deadguy Ale, simply because discard + this = turbo topdeck mode.
Indeed. I think it's easy to see the future of generic White Weenie is more tied to prison than it has ever been. Thalia, Mindcensor, Canonist(maybe), Spirit of the Labyrinth... protected by Mother and armed with SFM. It's a nice place to start, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
sent from phone, don't be a dick
I really like this card. Too bad they had to print TNN first.
With this guy, I am tempted to make A Beautiful Mind.dec comeback.
I mean while this guys shuts down all of the format's draw engines and filter spells, it doesn't affect Land Tax+Scroll Rack engine. It can also be Enlightened Tutored!
No more saving up for Chains and no more splashing black for Parfait!
I believe this deck already exist and it's called Death and TaxesQuote:
Originally Posted by TsumiBand
SOL + anvil of bogardan soft Lock Deadguy Ale deck?
4 SOL
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 anvil of bogardan
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 STP
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Duress
4 Hymn
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Wasteland
16 Lands
No Bob or Island Sanctuary?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
Forgot that Bob doesn't draw, and I never heard of Island Sanctuary. . . seems really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
I hate everything about this card.
I hate that it exists.
I hate that it's in a long line of shit that I hate exists.
And...come on? a 3/1? Because now that the combo player is on one card a turn we gotta make sure he dies as fast as possible or people are gonna keep playin them noncreature, nonplaneswalker spells. Is that generally the idea?
Wizards, you unmitigated asses.
I hate you.
Why are we calling this thing SoL when it's Spirit of the Labyrinth? We don't call Survival of the Fittest SoF, its SotF. Just curious how this abbreviation got propagated so early in the card's life.
Keep calm and run Dread of Night, or Gut Shot. Gut Shot is a thing against Thalia too.
SoL as in "Soul" as in a spirit as in Spirit of the Labyrinth. Meh, that's my take on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Nice hate bear that cuts along another axis of hate (spell cost, # of spells, protect thy owner). This is a vintage card. Boy vialing this in response to Brainstorm is quite the ramrod ... they just Stunted Growth themselves. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAHAHHAA.
I figured it was a take on SOL as "shit outta luck"?
sent from phone, don't be a dick
It's decent but you have to consider that this:
- dies to everything, and i mean really everything since it has 1 toughness
- usually come down after the first cantrip has already been used, making it decent only for the 2nd and onward brainstorm. If your opponent know you're running this, he'll search an answer with the first brainstorm and this will be just a 1-1 trade.
It's good as a surprise hate card for Griselbrand or Brainstorms if vialed in, but as a normal hate bear is nothing spectacular. Thalia is amazing because she has combat stats too (first strike mean she can carry equip) and she tax the removal that would kill her. This isn't in the same ballpark, but it's decent enough. Being an enchantment is irrilevant if not for Goyf growing.
Heared that Brainstorm and Ponder are restricted anyways. On top of that: Turn 1 Chalices and Lodestone exist there tooQuote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Many creatures "die to everything" yet are still played due to their impact and power level. I mean, if "dies to everything" was a reason not to play a card, Dark Confidant would be collecting dust in binders and the junk rare box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Also, unless you're facing combo like AnT/TES/Sneak&Show, remember that tempo Delver decks and Blade Control decks often won't be firing off their cantrip turn 1. In those style of decks, cantrips are often reserved for specific situations that occur during the course of a longer game. Tempo Delver decks are often times casting Delver of Secrets turn 1, Wastelanding your nonbasic if you ran it out there, or holding up Stifle mana. And as a Stoneblade player, I can assure you that I've rarely gone "fetchland -> Tundra -> Brainstorm, pass" on turn 1 before, especially game 1 against an unknown opponent.
I agree with this assessment. It with probably be a 1 for 1 swap with revoker in D&T but won't be enough to make the deck tier1. This guy really needed flash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Yeah nobody draws cards in Vintage. Maybe someday they'll print Gush, Jace, Ancestral Recall. Heck one day a key strategy might be to cast recall or many Gushes and then use a giant black regrowth to play them all again. Anyway, when that happens I'll PM you for more tips! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
dbl post
Yup. This card by itself won't make DnT tier 1. Luckily, DnT is already tier 1. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by testing32
It trades with Lodestone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear