Daretti Goblin Welder (Da-Welder)

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...9478&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...3001&type=card

Daretti is basically 2 cards in 1
+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

Why there is potential

Previously the problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, Daretti does not. Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

The rule of 8: when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue. An examples of when decks become amazing is show and tell. when show and tell or sneak attack are used alone the deck would not be consistent enough, but together since they both allow to abuse big creatures, a deck can now be focused around that.


Sample deck lists

I have included many different types to spur ideas and generate conversation


Main deck - Bruiser's current Version
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Talisman of Impulse
3 Gruul Signet

4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Choke
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Sylvan Library
2 Tangle Wire
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Matron
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Batterskull
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Possessed Portal
1 Contagion Engine

Sideboard
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon / Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sun Droplet
2 Sudden Shock
1 Cursed Totem
1 Raking Canopy
1 Blood Moon
1 Serrated Arrows / Aether Flash



Another List posted by Cire here

slightly modified version of that list

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Great Furnace
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Mountain
1 Island

4 Mox Diamond
3 Grim Monolith

4 Goblin Welder
4 Daretti
2 Dack Fayden

2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Liquid Metal Coating
1 Contagion Engine

3 Tangle Wire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void


Dragon Stompy Shell

19 CREATURES
4 Magus of the Moon
4 goblin welder
3 Lodestone Golem
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan


21 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
4 Diretti, scrap savant
1 Contagion Engine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

20 LANDS
4 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

SIDEBOARD
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Boil
2 Anarchy


R/W Batterskull Beats by Jables237

Critters
4x batterskull
4x mother of runes
4x goblin welder
4x stoneforge mystic
4x Masterwork of Ingenuity

Removal
3x lightning bolt
4x swords to plowshares

Other
4x faithless looting
3x Daretti
4x tangle wire

Lands
2x ancient den
4x arid mesa
3x great furnace
2x mountain
3x plains
4x plateau
2x scalding tarn
2x flooded strand


R/W Welder Stax by MoT_Pestilence

Spells: 36
4 mox diamond
3 trinisphere
4 smokestack
4 goblin welder
4 ensnaring bridge
4 armageddon
2 Bottled Cloister
3 crucible of worlds
4 chalice of the void
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant

Lands: 24
3 wasteland
2 flagstones of Trokair
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
1 karakas
1 plains
4 Plataeu
1 great furnace

Legacy Tools & Tubbies by bruiser

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Reclamation Sage

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Mana Rocks [05]
3 Talisman of Impulse
2 Gruul Signet

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Discussion

I would really like to start gathering ideas for this deck whether it is prison based, combo based, or agree based it does not matter to me. The list about is just something I threw together for spur discussion.

Cards to consider

Artifacts
grim monolith
trinisphere
chalice of the void
Contagion Engine
kuldotha forgemaster
liquimetal coating
uba mask
ensnaring bridge
sun droplet
Possessed Portal
Duplicant
Triskelavus
Spine of Ish Sah
Nevyniral's Disk
Sundering Titan
Myr Battlesphere
Smokestack
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Steel Hellkite
Phyrexian Metamorph
Mindslaver
Wurmcoil Engine
Bosh Iron Golem
Platinum Emperion
Platinum Angel
Darksteel Forge
ratchet bomb

Red
Feldon of the Third Path
faithless looting
trash for treasure
gamble
magus of the moon
Blood moon

Blue
show and tell
dack fayden
careful study
arcum dragsson

Black
tezzerett, agent of bolas
baleful strix
entomb


Questions

What strategy to adopt?
aggro
control
combo

My inclination is that Trash for Treasure and Faithless Looting/Careful Study are more similar to Daretti than Goblin Welder, so with that rule of 8, you might want to add those to your list of cards to consider.

The deck name should really be Major Carcetti tbh.

Also contagion Engine is pretty good imho. It's 6 mana but kill TNN, murder elves, kill all pyro elementals, as well as most of D&T creatures. It's not as good vs other things, but as a singleton, and with the added utility of the double proliferate for your Planeswalkers and Tangle wire, i'd run it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

The deck name should really be Major Carcetti tbh.

Also contagion Engine is pretty good imho. It's 6 mana but kill TNN, murder elves, kill all pyro elementals, as well as most of D&T creatures. It's not as good vs other things, but as a singleton, and with the added utility of the double proliferate for your Planeswalkers and Tangle wire, i'd run it.

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i think thats an excellent suggestion.

I'll add it to the list and consider it in further drafts of the deck.

Have you considered Grim Monolith at all for this? It helps to power out those huge threats manually and can be recycled into those same threats (or looted away) later after they've been removed.

I really want to add 8Moons here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zupponn

I really want to add 8Moons here.

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Yeah, I'd want to slot Daretti into a Dragon Stompy shell rather than this UR stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufus

Yeah, I'd want to slot Daretti into a Dragon Stompy shell rather than this UR stuff.

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daretti alone or with welder?

I'm also going to tinker with this a lot. I will make a mono-R list in addition to helping out with this list.

Tangle Wire, Contagion Engine, Grim Monolith are necessary imo.

Right now your blue count is too low to support Force of Will. I think you should reduce it to 3 and/or add blue spells if you want to support this card. That said, I personally like Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm much more. Flusterstorm is a necessary counter if you are playing Chalice of the Void for 1 because it goes through it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I'm also going to tinker with this a lot. I will make a mono-R list in addition to helping out with this list.

Tangle Wire, Contagion Engine, Grim Monolith are necessary imo.

Right now your blue count is too low to support Force of Will. I think you should reduce it to 3 and/or add blue spells if you want to support this card. That said, I personally like Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm much more. Flusterstorm is a necessary counter if you are playing Chalice of the Void for 1 because it goes through it.

---

Good observations.

I also updated the main post with a Pseudo dragon stomp shell. Lodestone golems were just thrown in there with little thought

I've always loved Welder but always failed to construct a deck consistent enough.
I've tried Trash for Treasure as welders 5-8, but that card is just a bad all in strategy and you might as well splash black from Reanimate. But then you're just playing a worse version of Reanimator, which dominated the all-in recursion strategy archtype.

As you mentioned, now that we have 8 *playable* welders it's time to return to the drawing board.
I don't think the all-in strategy is where this deck should be. First, Welder requires for you to untap with it meaning it can't be killed and it acts a turn later than Reanimate would. Daretti is just too slow at 4 mana to support an all-in strategy, though it does have 'haste'.

The advantage of these two cards is then, the fact that their ability is reusable.
For this reason I think the control shell is a better one.
Something along the lines of Vintage Slaver Control.

I like Liquimetal Coating for synergy with Dack Fayden, and guaranteeing you'll have a welder target. As Undomian mentioned, Grim monolith is almost a must to increase the speed of the deck while providing a back up plan around graveyard hate where you can just cast your big guys.

I don't think this deck should have the blue counter suite - we're countering two things mostly -> 1). removal for welder and 2). combo pieces (storm, glimpse, S&T, etc)
While being able to counter these is good, this deck really likes playing things on its own turn and the card disadvantage from FoW is pretty rough (not to mention running FoW requires us to up the blue card count and this deck needs red cards and artifact mostly).
Even Intuition, while a great tutor, is better replaced by Gamble.
Dack should be the only blue card imo.
Pyroblast and REB are good cards to counter opponent's counterspells as well as S&T. Contagion Engine ruins Elves, and Trinisphere/Mind Slaver wreck combo.


How to run control without Blue?
Blood Moon effects
Tangle Wire
Trinisphere
REB/Pyroblast (we can always discard them with looting effects game 1 against non blue decks)

Kill with Mind Slaver lock/Wurmcoil/Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan is okay, but sometimes a bit too cute, and it's a real wet blanket when he gets swords'ed and you're just sitting there wishing you had Myr Battlesphere instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GenghisTom

I've always loved Welder but always failed to construct a deck consistent enough.
I've tried Trash for Treasure as welders 5-8, but that card is just a bad all in strategy and you might as well splash black from Reanimate. But then you're just playing a worse version of Reanimator, which dominated the all-in recursion strategy archtype.

As you mentioned, now that we have 8 *playable* welders it's time to return to the drawing board.
I don't think the all-in strategy is where this deck should be. First, Welder requires for you to untap with it meaning it can't be killed and it acts a turn later than Reanimate would. Daretti is just too slow at 4 mana to support an all-in strategy, though it does have 'haste'.

The advantage of these two cards is then, the fact that their ability is reusable.
For this reason I think the control shell is a better one.
Something along the lines of Vintage Slaver Control.

I like Liquimetal Coating for synergy with Dack Fayden, and guaranteeing you'll have a welder target. As Undomian mentioned, Grim monolith is almost a must to increase the speed of the deck while providing a back up plan around graveyard hate where you can just cast your big guys.

I don't think this deck should have the blue counter suite - we're countering two things mostly -> 1). removal for welder and 2). combo pieces (storm, glimpse, S&T, etc)
While being able to counter these is good, this deck really likes playing things on its own turn and the card disadvantage from FoW is pretty rough (not to mention running FoW requires us to up the blue card count and this deck needs red cards and artifact mostly).
Even Intuition, while a great tutor, is better replaced by Gamble.
Dack should be the only blue card imo.
Pyroblast and REB are good cards to counter opponent's counterspells as well as S&T. Contagion Engine ruins Elves, and Trinisphere/Mind Slaver wreck combo.


How to run control without Blue?
Blood Moon effects
Tangle Wire
Trinisphere
REB/Pyroblast (we can always discard them with looting effects game 1 against non blue decks)

Kill with Mind Slaver lock/Wurmcoil/Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan is okay, but sometimes a bit too cute, and it's a real wet blanket when he gets swords'ed and you're just sitting there wishing you had Myr Battlesphere instead.

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i really like what you are saying here, can you construct a list?

Blue is probably better if you are trying to do some sort of all in combo, where you can use intuition to dump the pieces in the graveyard. It's along the same control type but just going about it a different way.

probably the numbers i would assign to each

liquimetal coating is a 2 of
grim monolith a 3-4 of
red blast / pyroblast 4-6
moon effects 6-7
trinisphere 3 of 1 SB
dack Fayden 2-3
wurmcoil engine 2-3

I think you also really need Spine of Ish Sah. Spine fuels your weld, then it returns to your hand so it fuels your loot.

This card you can perfectly cycle with Daretti.

Loot, discard artifact + Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice artifact, return Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice Spine of Ish Sah, return artifact to play (sacked or discarded one), bounce Spine of Ish Sah
Loot, discard the returned Spine of Ish Sah + an artifact...

Also, if Wurmcoil is good, Godo is definitely good. Batterskull can bounce itself (for loot) and can be sacked if it's without a token (for weld). The life gain is also pretty amazing against bolts and ancient tombs. Alex Holland created a list in the MUD thread incorporating Daretti in Godo Mud.

Godoretti

Land 21

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Barbarian Ring
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Tower of the Magistrate [or other utility land]

Artifacts 21
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Batterskull
3 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Contagion Engine
1 Spine of Ish-Sah

Planeswalkers 5
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Karn Liberated, Ugin when spoiled

Creatures 11
4 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sundering Titan

Instants 3
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

I feel that you have to include Mindslaver in here somewhere. It's a game-winning combo with Welder in play and 4 mana.

And even on its own, it's a good value play as you can do stuff like crack fetchlands and fail to find, or StP/Bolt their own guys.

I'd start goldfishing with something like this:

4 x Welder
4 x Daretti

2 x Dack
4 x Gamble
2 x Liquimetal Coating

5 x REB/Pyroblast
4 x Trinisphere
1 x Tangle Wire
3 x Magus of Moon (better than Blood Moon as it can soak of removal from Welder and Robots)

3 x Wurmcoil
1 x Battlesphere
1 x Contagion Engine
1 x Mind Slaver

3 x Grim Monolith
2 x Mox Opal
4 x Great Furnace
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
3 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Darksteel Citadel
2 x Scalding Tarn
1 x Volcanic Island



Seems like it crushes combo with with Trinisphere/Blood Moon/Slaver
It might have trouble with Contol decks that just keep removing your threats which is why Inkwell Leviathan might be good main deck in place of 1 Wurmcoil.
Or maybe the amount of win cons is too low?
There's a nearly inexhaustible amount of card choice options.

I have a feeling Dack + Liquimetal Coating would really give control a tough time - the SB could contain the other 2 of each.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Godoretti

Land 21

2 Barbarian Ring


Artifacts 21

1 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish-Sah

Planeswalkers 5

Ugin when spoiled

Creatures 11
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord

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barbarian ring?

i like spine and greaves

Who is ugin and what do you know about him?

3 godo seems much since it cost 6, maybe 1-2 especially because other than fetching a batterskul he's isn't synergistic with the rest of the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MGB

I feel that you have to include Mindslaver in here somewhere. It's a game-winning combo with Welder in play and 4 mana.

And even on its own, it's a good value play as you can do stuff like crack fetchlands and fail to find, or StP/Bolt their own guys.

---

slaver is good as a 1 of, however we are approaching the point of lots of 1 ofs with no reliable way to search them other than loot for them... is there anything that can help us here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GenghisTom

Seems like it crushes combo with with Trinisphere/Blood Moon/Slaver
It might have trouble with Contol decks that just keep removing your threats which is why Inkwell Leviathan might be good main deck in place of 1 Wurmcoil.
Or maybe the amount of win cons is too low?
There's a nearly inexhaustible amount of card choice options.

I have a feeling Dack + Liquimetal Coating would really give control a tough time - the SB could contain the other 2 of each.

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planeswalkers in general hurt control decks because really pithing needle / council's judgment are their only outs. you can steal a needle and weld it away or just weld it away if they have an artifact in grave.

goblin welder hurts control because they can counterspell something but it'll get recurred. you have to stick the welder tho and not let him get STP'd. Also being an explosive deck they can sometimes get caught offgaurd or overwhelmed.

Generally though i think this deck should have a fairly decent matchup against them because of the late game potential. It's also good against combo because it has early game explosiveness. If the consistency issues can get worked out we can define a very precise win strategy i think the deck has incredible potential.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I think you also really need Spine of Ish Sah. Spine fuels your weld, then it returns to your hand so it fuels your loot.

This card you can perfectly cycle with Daretti.

Loot, discard artifact + Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice artifact, return Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice Spine of Ish Sah, return artifact to play (sacked or discarded one), bounce Spine of Ish Sah
Loot, discard the returned Spine of Ish Sah + an artifact...

Also, if Wurmcoil is good, Godo is definitely good. Batterskull can bounce itself (for loot) and can be sacked if it's without a token (for weld). The life gain is also pretty amazing against bolts and ancient tombs. Alex Holland created a list in the MUD thread incorporating Daretti in Godo Mud.

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great catch. for some reason i was thinking spine was a replacement effect, i just needed to RTFC.

cards to be concerned with
Deathrite shaman
rest in peace
tormod's crypt
Grafdigger's Cage

Ugin is highly highly likely to be the next colorless planeswalker this block (reforged) with a Ghostfire attached to it and perhaps a time walk. Ugin is powerful enough to keep emrakul at bay so im expecting power creep. I suspect something of a mix between nicol bolas and karn liberated in terms of power.

@Barbarian ring: Perhaps a little too ambitious. The thought was, if you're filling the yard you might as well use barbarian ring to get rid of delvers and such. I think this works best if you also run back in UR

Could this become a B/R or Grixis version using entomb and other reanimation effects? It seems like it could work.
T1- Volcanic Island, tap, Goblin Welder
T2-Swamp, Entomb, tap Goblin Welder, bring back x artifact from the grave, spell pierce in hand.

Now, this wont happen all the time, but its not a Magical Christmas Land scenario either.

I have to agree with those who say that adding Mindslaver would be beneficial. Even cracking the slaver ONCE can be game-changing (i.e. Force of Willing your opponents own spells, cracking fetches for no land, tapping out for no reason, or just making a stupidly bad decision.), and doing it infinite times flat-out wins you the game.

The Spine of Ish Sha doesn't seem that great simply because of how bad it is with Welder and Daretti.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

barbarian ring?
3 godo seems much since it cost 6, maybe 1-2 especially because other than fetching a batterskul he's isn't synergistic with the rest of the deck.

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Yes, especially when you're also running wurmcoils.

Quote:

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cards to be concerned with
Deathrite shaman
rest in peace
tormod's crypt
Grafdigger's Cage

---

DRS only works on creature artifacts, so contagion engine isn't effected. Thats something. Chalice can help here. Not sure if there are other cards that can help..

Also, right now there isn't much in terms of discard. Pehaps a Gathan Raider or two could help dump bombs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Ugin is highly highly likely to be the next colorless planeswalker this block (reforged) with a Ghostfire attached to it and perhaps a time walk. Ugin is powerful enough to keep emrakul at bay so im expecting power creep. I suspect something of a mix between nicol bolas and karn liberated in terms of power.

@Barbarian ring: Perhaps a little too ambitious. The thought was, if you're filling the yard you might as well use barbarian ring to get rid of delvers and such. I think this works best if you also run back in UR

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If we are worried about creatures at the start we can actually run Ensnaring bridge with great success because we should be dumping our hands fast, and when we need to attack we can either weld / daretti it away. This almost seems like an auto include from a defense standpoint. I know that cloudpost / 12post decks are running elephant grass to buy time and this would be our equivalent.

Maybe buying time isn't what we need tho, really we just need to test.

I'm mainly concerned with aggro / control / tempo

miracles, rug, and D&T would probably be the top 3 decks id want to test against at the start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LIKEABOSS

Could this become a B/R or Grixis version using entomb and other reanimation effects? It seems like it could work.
T1- Volcanic Island, tap, Goblin Welder
T2-Swamp, Entomb, tap Goblin Welder, bring back x artifact from the grave, spell pierce in hand.

Now, this wont happen all the time, but its not a Magical Christmas Land scenario either.

---

I like the idea, but this is a very different deck than others are discussing. do you have a list i can post in the OP for reference?

you can use this to poach some ideas.

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

Would Izzet Signet be worthy of consideration for any of the Variants with blue? I figure since Dimir Signet sees play in the Tezzerator decks it might be a worthy inclusion here (although they also have Talisman of Dominance as well. Maybe going Grixis is a possibility?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamis

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

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Just curious, why do you think Moltensteel Dragon is that good? Compared to the rest of the big, bomby artifacts out there, I feel like Moltensteel Dragon wouldn't really help us as much as, say, Sundering Titan.

Could Platinum Emporium see play here? Platinum Angel?

Against RUG / UR Delver: I'd probably want to side in Taurean Mauler (with cavern of souls) to combat Young Pyromancer and Monastery Swiftspear while also punishing their counters and cantrips with a decent clock that they cannot remove with Lightning Bolt (unless that's the first spell they play after you resolve taurean mauler. It's also a good choice because they will board in artifact hate. Chalice of the Void also plays a crucial role here, as well as Red Elemental Blast (Could be Burnout if afraid of chalice issues). There is also Pyrokinesis and Whipflare that can play a role in this match.

Miracles: I like Godo because he is immune to Swords to Plowshares, Jace and to some extent Terminus (Batterskull will remain). Lantern of Insight can counter Entreat the Angels (or Terminus) by shuffling away the miracle trigger. This matchup probably needs work because it can be hard to resolve bigger threats against control. Pithing Needle needs to be answered.

@Jamis: I play Moltensteel Dragon in Godo MUD. It's a great clock. It really depends on the direction of the list (Full on control/prison, prison stompy or stompy with artifact recursion)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LIKEABOSS

Just curious, why do you think Moltensteel Dragon is that good? Compared to the rest of the big, bomby artifacts out there, I feel like Moltensteel Dragon wouldn't really help us as much as, say, Sundering Titan.

Could Platinum Emporium see play here? Platinum Angel?

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Moltensteel Dragon is lethal on the second attack 99% of the time. In practice, it's a 2 turn clock disguised as a shitty dragon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

daretti alone or with welder?

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I was thinking with chalice, and no welder, but I won't derail things further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufus

I was thinking with chalice, and no welder, but I won't derail things further.

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i included a sample list in the OP of daretti integrated into stompy, but not focusing on welder and Daretti would defeat the point of this deck / thread. It sounds like what you are wanting is to simply add daretti to dragon stompy which could be addressed in their thread

this thread should focus on abusing the synergy and consistency created by Goblin welder and Daretti.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Moltensteel Dragon is lethal on the second attack 99% of the time. In practice, it's a 2 turn clock disguised as a shitty dragon.

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Alright, just wondering.

Seems like a great deck!

Here's yet _ANOTHER_ direction this Doretti could go. So many options..

Legacy Tools & Tubbies

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Mana Rocks [05]
3 Talisman of Impulse
2 Gruul Signet

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind / Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan / Platinum Angel
1 Reclamation Sage

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge


Single card discussion:

Garruk Relentless:
Garruk deals with creatures
Garruk makes blockers
Garruk makes permanents for Tangle Wire
Garruk flips into semi-survival of the fittest mode, fueling the yard and tutoring for silver bullets

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...5250&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...5251&type=card

Sylvan Library
Provides card quality and card quantity in the 2-CC slot, avoiding Chalice of the Void's interference. Sylvan Library together with Doretti, Scrap Savant let you draw 5 cards in a single turn, of which 2 bombs can be discarded. Wurmcoil Engine and Sphinx of the Steel Wind are there to provide a good clock and sustained fuel for Sylvan Library

Fauna Shaman
Helps get Wurmcoil Engine and other bombs in the graveyard, and tutors for extra Fauna Shaman's, Welders or sideboard silver-bullets

Goblin Welder
Needs no introduction. Cavern of Souls helps dodge Chalice of the Void on one

Tangle Wire
Helps slow the game down so that planeswalkers can ramp

Contagion Engine
Removes creatures, ramps planeswalkers and locks the game out with Tangle Wire

Ensnaring Bridge
Serves as early game protection. Weld this out for a Wurmcoil Engine or other bomb

Sphinx of the Steel Wind
When you need a good clock with lifelink, evasion, and are trying to dodge artifact removal, weld this

Inkwell Leviathan
When you're facing targeted removal, you can use Inkwell Leviathan. Not that good because Terminus gets rid of it.

Sundering Titan
Some people don't like this card, I do. Even if this catches a plowshares, the damage is already done most of the time. The life gain from plowshares ensures you have at least an extra turn or two to find a new bomb.

Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows
Good mana sink in your upkeep when you've got Tangle Wire out. Controls the board. Answers Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer and all the other usual suspects. Also serves as a card advantage engine with Doretti in play.

Wurmcoil Engine
The main beatstick. Trades nicely with Goblin Welder, Doretti and Garruk. Garruk and Fauna Shaman can tutor it.

Reclamation Sage
Answers Pithing Needle or the occasional Counterbalance or something from imperial painter. Also deals with Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus.

Mana rocks
Accelerate and later provide welding fodder

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamis

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

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Myr Battlesphere is better

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Here's yet _ANOTHER_ direction this Doretti could go. So many options..

Legacy Tools & Tubbies

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Mana Rocks [05]
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Gruul Signet

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind / Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge

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I would consider playing more Talisman of Impulse than Gruul Signet, since there are no cards that have GR in their casting cost.

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Originally Posted by JanoschEausH

I would consider playing more Talisman of Impulse than Gruul Signet, since there are no cards that have GR in their casting cost.

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Good point. Lightning edited.

I'm more on a thing like
3 p. Fire
3-4 thirst
3-4 cruise
4 Chalice
3 dack fayden
3-4 Daretti
2 loam
3-4 b wish
3-4 force of will
24 lands+4 Mox Diamond
Intu, mindslaver, wurmcoil, e.e, liquidmetal, e. Bridge and so on.

This is a list i'm playing right now of Godo MUD:


Taxes:
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

Equipment engine:
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Batterskull
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Mana:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
2 Wasteland
2 Mox Diamond
2 Boros Garrison
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Boros Signet

SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 4 Wear // Tear
SB: 4 Sudden Shock


I'm not sure where i could play Daretti.
Some explanations:

I've found Batterskull to be better than Wurmcoil because:
- costing 1 less is crucial when you need the creature to gain life
- vigilance is relevant
- you can equip other creatures, especially relevant with Godo, + later on with postmana you can easily bounce and replay it and equip etc...
- SFM + godo tutor for it, whereas this isn't true of Wurmcoil

Godo is actually really good and i didn't think much of it. Untapping with it it's game with double attack phase. Greaves especially allowyou to win from nowhere with it.

Postmana base instead of standard. Basically Glimmerpost is a really good card, and plus, with Vesuva, Garrison and crucible you can easily just gain tons of life with it. I never liked traitors in the deck, even with Crucible. Honestly, i thought crucible and Moxen would've left the deck soon after some testing, but i've found a nice sinergy of mox + garrison, plus the crucible wastelock and the ability to recicle Posts won me a lot of games until now. Signet instead of Monolith is a concession for the colored mana i need in the deck, and in general with this curve you don't really need to curve into monsters T2-T3, but more like replay batterskulls and equips ad infinitum.
The most ? slots of the deck right now imho are Lodestone and Ajani. Lodestone is just too fragile in this format, while Ajani has been decent for now, but i found hardly uses for its +1. Daretti could very well go in either slot, probably Lodestone first.

For the SB, i've started playingsudden shock as an uncounterable way to deal with Swiftspears, Pyromancers (good because he can't create tokens in resp) and elves creatures (and they can't bounce to hand in resp).

EDIT: i like the RG approach by Bruizar a lot. If Survival ever get unbanned, jump on it, old TnT style at its finest.

Some ideas

I would suggest the RED STAX route.

Blood moon ftw.

Add Solemn simulacrum (more draw, more ramp) and some Squees (1/2) for profit.

Squee could be food for smokestacks too.

Add some big robots and GG :smile:

Bye

There are a lot of ways this deck can go. . . for example this is what I'm currently testing.

7 2 mana land.
13 Lands

4 Welder
2 Wormcoil engine

3 Daretti
4 Dack

3 Talisman of Indulgence
4 Transmute
3 Talisman of Progress
4 Intuition
4 Faithless Looting
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Foundry
2 Liquidmetal coating.

The idea is that you have 3 main lines of play.

1st – land
2nd – Land – 2 mana accel
3rd – 2 mana land - Dack + liquid/transmute

1st – land
2nd – 2 mana land – Loot – Discard Welder Target
3rd – land – Daretti and Goblin Welder ( a turn earlier).

1st – land
2nd – 2 mana land – Loot – sword of the meek
3 rd – land – Trasmute/foundry

I would love to find room for FOW or traditional MUD cards like moon/chalice or even mash in 8TEZZ with some tezz/jace and some more artifacts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

I've found Batterskull to be better than Wurmcoil because:
- costing 1 less is crucial when you need the creature to gain life
- vigilance is relevant

- SFM + godo tutor for it, whereas this isn't true of Wurmcoil

Godo is actually really good and i didn't think much of it. Untapping with it it's game with double attack phase. Greaves especially allow you to win from nowhere with it.

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I agree with this. I used the exact same equipment package. Wurmcoil obviously gets a lot better when you can weld him, but if you can support Godo, he's a real beating. The mana-cost difference was the reason I also added Moltensteel Dragon in my earlier builds. Godo Mud was an attempt to shave off the average converted mana cost of the deck, since MUD usually dies to itself, rather than to its opponent. Godo MUD also came into being as a way to deal with Swords to Plowshares and Jace, the Mindsculptor (these both destroy your mana investment if you're playing wurmcoil engine). The major downside of Batterskull is that it folds to Spell Pierce.

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Basically Glimmerpost is a really good card, and plus, with Vesuva, Garrison and crucible you can easily just gain tons of life with it. I never liked traitors in the deck, even with Crucible. Honestly, i thought crucible and Moxen would've left the deck soon after some testing, but i've found a nice sinergy of mox + garrison, plus the crucible wastelock and the ability to recicle Posts won me a lot of games until now.

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Man.. Boros Garrison with Glimmerpost / Vesuva is sweet. How did that go in testing? Did bouncing and renaming Cavern of Souls come up?

Quote:

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For the SB, i've started playingsudden shock as an uncounterable way to deal with Swiftspears, Pyromancers (good because he can't create tokens in resp) and elves creatures (and they can't bounce to hand in resp).

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I'm also big on Sudden Shock right now. If you're careful with passing priority, you can remove Deathrite Shaman before it can eat a robot from your yard (If you go for welder walker).

Lodestone Golem isn't cutting it right now, mostly because of Lightning Bolts everywhere.

How are the Wear // Tear's for you? Does using both sides at the same time ever come up?

Mox Diamond - I might have to bite the bullet to get a set seems much better than Petal. Also the discarded land works with Treasure Cruise.

If you play Dack Fayden I don't think you want to really play Ancient Tomb and Traitors since they don't accelerate Dack.

Yeah but you need it for early Intuition's or Early Daretti. However, you are right - the 1st line of play in my post is not playable since you only produce 2CCC instead of the 1CCCC you need. I don't really have a solution for that yet - but I'll tinker around with that list for a while. Again the list is really just Welder-Control/Dack+Liquid/Thopter+Sword. Something about those elements makes sense for me, but i'm not entirely sure whether they can actually fit all together.