Eidolon Lockdown

Ok first up I know this concept is probably laughable and wont work but some feedback even some constructive would be awesome.

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Slash Panther
4 Giant Solifuge
4 Fireblast
4 Faithless Looting

4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire

That is what I have so far missing some of the core deck obviously but a bit head scratchy in where to go from here. I don't just want to jam it with Bolt effects as that is bad synergy but maybe a few wouldn't hurt? .............................. any thoughts would be awesome or even a better direction than slash panther and Giant Solifuge if anyone has one?

Note

I would rather keep it mono colour if at all possible keep the cost down and the concept as pure as possible.

At the last tournament I've talked with Einherjer about this very concept, he played against something like this some weeks ago and this deck featured Simian Spirit Guides to have T1 access to Eidolon/Pillar, maybe you want to look into this.

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Originally Posted by uanlayen

Ok first up I know this concept is probably laughable and wont work but some feedback even some constructive would be awesome.

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Slash Panther
4 Giant Solifuge
4 Fireblast
4 Faithless Looting

4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire

That is what I have so far missing some of the core deck obviously but a bit head scratchy in where to go from here. I don't just want to jam it with Bolt effects as that is bad synergy but maybe a few wouldn't hurt? .............................. any thoughts would be awesome or even a better direction than slash panther and Giant Solifuge if anyone has one?

Note

I would rather keep it mono colour if at all possible keep the cost down and the concept as pure as possible.

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I think the idea's bad, or you need to go another route. First off, BURN already played Eidolon so saying bad synergy is kind of a facade, if that was the case then Sulfuric Vortex would be an absolute trash card and it's amazing. The other big problem is I think you'll be taking way too much damage with Ancient Tombs and all the fetchlands, I'm not sure Tomb is a good idea for you.

The problem is, an opponent's gonna just drop a Delver or Tarmogoyf down and just not care about the damage 'cause they'll stomp you out, and if they have to counter a few spells and take a shock to the face so be it.

What I think a better approach might be if you're determined to run Eidolon and Pillar in controllish deck and make it work: Try going something like Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite Shaman or Cursed Scroll cards to create this early "must-deal-with" board position. Then drop down your Eidolon/Pillar. You could even make it like a U/R lock where they have to fight through your counters or Standstills to deal with your Lavamancer critters, this puts them in a situation where if they leave your guys alone you'll burn them out but the longer they dig for answers the more damage they take. I think Jace would be amazing too for his ability to bounce their Goyfs to force them to replay under Eidolon/Pillar and brainstorms without taking damage.

Thanks for the feedback so far I was sure no one would be interested in this thread. I do think the concept is hardly a T1 idea and I am probably onto a hiding to nothing considering it but I just want to give it a go rather than play my carbon copy of everyone elses burn deck try something a little unique even if it is horrible you know?

Of course, I appreciate seeing unique rogue decks. You just have to make sure it's unique but still viable, right. You need to be able to ask yourself "what if they..." and if your deck just can't deal with that, you need to rethink your strategy. For example, on turn 2 you play Eidolon, your opponent plays a 3/4 goyf that he's swinging at you on turn 3, what do you do? You just Fireblast sac'ing your only mountains? If you have no removal he'll just race you he won't even need to play spells, and since you're already running loads of fetches and shocks and occasional self damage from your own spells and creatures that'll be a very fast race for him.

Blue just seemed a natural splash 'cause you can drop a Lavamancer for removal and protect your creatures and spells with counters, but ALSO because you can bounce their Goyfs and threats to 1) slow their tempo and 2) force them to take more damage. There's actually a pretty cheap creature from like Mercadian, it's like Bouncer-something but you can discard a card to bounce a creature back to their hand. If you need cheap options I'd suggest cards like that and Lavamancer, or Mist Raven that can etb bounce and Jace is too $. Hope that helps.

Maze of Ith probably has a place if this is your strategy. You might also want to consider some manlands too.

Pyrokinesis is an effective way to clear the turn 1 Delver or DRS and it has CMC of 6.

I agree that Ancient Tombs and fetchlands are probably not the way you want to go with this list. I also agree that Simian Spirit Guide seems like it could be good here. I wonder if red has any other decent 'free' or alternate casting cost spells above 3 CMC...

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Slash Panther
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Searing Blood
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast

2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain

So keep ya love lockdown, ya love lockdown
Now keep ya love lockdown, you lose

OK, Chalice looks off but it can support your team if you are on a beatdown plan, shutting off removal. It shuts Storm temporarily if you don't have Eidolon/Pillar. It can seal the win with Vortex in play. Phyrexian Metamorph copies Panther, Eidolon, Magus (beating against BUG), opposing Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, Emrakul, Griselbrand... you name it


/thread

I did not consider Pyrokinesis but that is a great suggestion man lands I did think about but makes it harder to fireblast which is why I was slightly put off by them. Fast mana other than the ancient tombs I suppose lotus petal as well or instead of spirit guide would also work. I guess my idea was to have as much if not all of the deck above 3cc so once my pillars and eidolon's were down I wouldn't be taking anymore damage. I do agree I need some better removal than fireblast though.

other than slash panther why are you playing ancient tombs? it seems terrible. You need to either conserve life or gain life. If you are playingg sulfuric vortex which i think you have to life gain is terrible. chalice of the void is also shitty because you want them to take damage from their low cmc spells. if they aren't casting them then they are not taking damage.

look for cards with alternate costs, or suspend, traps

Arc Blade
cave-in
flameshot
nihilith
contagion
snuff out

The ancient Tombs were there for the panther and for Giant Solifuge as well my intention was to find other solid creatures and spells at around the 4+ mana cc and therefore not have to worry a huge amount about taking a few hits from the ancient tombs because my intention was not to get hit by my own Pillars and Eidolon's at all beyond casting the second one of course. I mean I am not massively attached to the idea of medium sized creatures if anyone has a better idea of how to kill around multiple pillar's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

chalice of the void is also shitty because you want them to take damage from their low cmc spells. if they aren't casting them then they are not taking damage.

look for cards with alternate costs, or suspend, traps

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I think I justified the value of Chalice of Void in certain scenarios. Having a beatdown plan isn't shitty because obviously they won't just kill themselves with Eidolon/Pillar. An opponent can probably just land jace, or wait to resolve SnT whatever, drop a creature etc. You can't just sit there and cross fingers. Taking damage is necessary as long as your opponent is losing life points too, this is where burn spells able to hit dome matter too. I'd also stay away from pitch spells since the deck has no card draw engine going. As for fast mana, I would recommend something that sticks like Mox Diamond instead of SSG, since you're looking into casting more than a single Slash Panther slash CMC 4 creature.

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Originally Posted by death

I think I justified the value of Chalice of Void in certain scenarios. Having a beatdown plan isn't shitty because obviously they won't just kill themselves with Eidolon/Pillar. An opponent can probably just land jace, or wait to resolve SnT whatever, drop a creature etc. You can't just sit there and cross fingers. Taking damage is necessary as long as your opponent is losing life points too, this is where burn spells able to hit dome matter too. I'd also stay away from pitch spells since the deck has no card draw engine going. As for fast mana, I would recommend something that sticks like Mox Diamond instead of SSG, since you're looking into casting more than a single Slash Panther slash CMC 4 creature.

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why is slash panther even in here? the best it could ever be is a 4/2 on turn 2...but to do so you have to get 2x ancient tombs and beat yourself in the head for 4...

Ankh of Mishra, moxes and Shrapnel Blast for more punishment? 1 opponent's fetchland is 5 damages and with a Shrapnel Blast the same Ankh becomes a 10 damages or worse.

worse.. if you don't forget the fork!

The slash panthers are not meant to be dropped on T2 the idea was to drop them a bit later after I have had my fill of Eidolon and pillar if I wanted to drop fast efficient creatures I would use Goblin Guide the idea is to have a creature base you can play after you get a soft lock with Pillar and Eidolon. Not necessarily before. As stated though I am not desperate to hold onto creature beat down as a concept.

The value of Simian Spirit Guide over anything else is you can pitch it when you already have Eidolon's and Pillar's in play and it wont sting you for damage mox and petal and anything else will still hit you for x amount of damage.

What are peoples thoughts on Demigod of Revenge its hard to get rid of as anymore you play just brings back the rest from the bin its hasty goodness and it does the flying thing?

The problem I see with this deck is that if you're burning them out with eidolon, why do you care about taking damage? Most decks that care about both players' life totals would be tempo-based and therefore could not really use high-CMC spells. So the deck's problem is role-based: what type of deck can it be?

Pyrokinesis and jace are both useful in controlling strategies and can potentially be used aggressively, so I would start there. Using counterspells with cmc 4 or greater you can cast cheaply, you can make a tempo deck where you protect your eidolon/pillar and take no damage while your opponent takes damage trying to kill it.
(foil and thwart i guess?) The problem is that the main thing that kills pillar is abrupt decay :( Misdirection seems really good here actually.

Aye I really wanted to stay away from mixing colours though otherwise I could just build some sort of version of draw go. I am starting to think that it just wont ever be fast enough or reliable enough to get that double pillars/eidolon lock on without splashing for tutors or good quality dig spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uanlayen

The slash panthers are not meant to be dropped on T2 the idea was to drop them a bit later after I have had my fill of Eidolon and pillar if I wanted to drop fast efficient creatures I would use Goblin Guide the idea is to have a creature base you can play after you get a soft lock with Pillar and Eidolon. Not necessarily before. As stated though I am not desperate to hold onto creature beat down as a concept.

The value of Simian Spirit Guide over anything else is you can pitch it when you already have Eidolon's and Pillar's in play and it wont sting you for damage mox and petal and anything else will still hit you for x amount of damage.

What are peoples thoughts on Demigod of Revenge its hard to get rid of as anymore you play just brings back the rest from the bin its hasty goodness and it does the flying thing?

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Look at other red Stompy Decks and you will find some more tools like:

Koth of the Hammer: also 4 Mana - "Haste" Attacker with 4/4 - harder to kill as a Planeswalker compared to the sweet Panter

Some other uncommon creatures as "finishers":
Hellrider
Shaman of the Great Hunt

The question is: Why this deck over the established Dragon/Goblin/Werewolf-Stompy?

Also: With Eidolon (Pillar) you want early red (better double red) so Sol-Lands aren't the best idea - i would mix some Chrome Mox for more turn1 action besides Tomb+Chalice (i knew that Spirit+Tomb+Magus can also work, but 3cards "combo" are more magic wonderland)

Any reason for not having Blood Moon?

Like this:
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon

4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Searing Blood
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroblast
4 Fireblast

4 City of Traitors
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain

Sideboard:
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Ruination
1 Sudden Demise
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pithing Needle
2 Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard is just something I made on the fly, any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Poron

Ankh of Mishra, moxes and Shrapnel Blast for more punishment? 1 opponent's fetchland is 5 damages and with a Shrapnel Blast the same Ankh becomes a 10 damages or worse.

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please god make this deck work with
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...=296&type=card

I know I'm kind of regurgitating this... but I really like the :ur: approach to a Pillar deck. For one, with the panther and all fetches, Tomb and sulfuric Vortexes I see I feel like you're just taking way too much damage to the face.

With Blue splash you can go mass bounce, like Jace, Cyclonic Rift, Man-o'-War, etc. Because you can do your Chalice and Pillar and let them try to race you, then just bounce and keep juggling their board position back to their hand and keep forcing them to eat like 2-6 damage to recast their Win creatures, then finish them off with Fireblast. If you spend your early turns trying to get your lock cards and Pillars out, and opponent gets out the creatures he needs you're now stuck worrying about removal, where bounce solves both problems.

Good news: you should never lose to elves.

What facet of the metagame are you attempting to attack? As soon as your opponent sees how you are operating I think they will slow roll their spells. You need something to apply pressure so the time you gain does something for you.

I think these could be good cards to help lockdown: ensnaring bridge, tangle wire. Sulfuric Vortex seems really good too...but what about Cloudpost? Set up your soft locks and blast ahead with huge spells.