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Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Hi all, just been thinking about how to get past W6 that is running rampant at my current meta at LGS. Yes, I could just make a RiP helm deck or something.
But...
I was thinking of making a deck that punishes how they play; recurring lands, pinging 1-toughness creatures.
As such, I went for a classic: Ankh of Mishra (and Ankh of Mishra on legs), coupled with targeted land destruction, and shuffle damage. And no 1 toughness creatures.
Slipped in some shrapnel blasts to ensure that a drawn artifact isn't totally rubbish, along with some surgical extractions (my meta is graveyard heavy, helps remove lands from W6, and shuffles their library which adds damage with probe).
Is it a good deck? Definitely not.
But if you guys could help me make it at least annoying to W6 decks, that would be awesome.
// Lands
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Great Furnace
12 Mountain
// W6 Hate
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Zo-Zu the Punisher
4 Psychogenic Probe
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tectonic Instability
// Damage
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Searing Blood
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Chain Lightning
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
If you're going to play Ankh, maybe run stuff like Winter Orb/Tangle Wire (to punish their mana and force them to play more lands) or splash blue for the combo finish with Parallax Tide. Tangle Wire is also an amazing card to Shrapnel Blast at them.
Tectonic Instability sucks. They can float mana. Orb is how you constrain their lands.
Psychogenic Probe + Surgical just does 2 damage to each of you. At that point, why not play Price of Progress or Flame Rift instead. Surgical's fine in the board but doesn't advance your gameplan, which is to just kill them.
Zo-Zu seems too slow. If you're on the draw (turn 3), most decks may not have any more fetching to do by turn 4 or could afford to hold back land drops.
I had toyed around with this Ankh burn deck a while ago that's more aggro focused...
//Lands: 19
4 Great Furnace
15 Snow-Covered Mountain
//Creatures: 8
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
//Artifacts: 11
4 Black Vise
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Winter Orb
//Spells: 22
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
3 Price of Progress
3 Shrapnel Blast
4 Fireblast
Sideboard could include cards like Searing Blood, Smash to Smithereens, etc. It's probably worse than straight burn but it could be better in some metas. Galvanic Blast is also an option but the artifact count may be too low.
Otherwise you could try Ankh Prison with Sol Lands, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Ankh of Mishra, Mana Breach, Parallax Tide, Tangle Wire, Planeswalkers, etc...
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
If you're going to play Ankh, maybe run stuff like
Winter Orb/
Tangle Wire (to punish their mana and force them to play more lands) or splash blue for the combo finish with
Parallax Tide. Tangle Wire is also an amazing card to Shrapnel Blast at them.
Tectonic Instability sucks. They can float mana. Orb is how you constrain their lands.
Psychogenic Probe + Surgical just does 2 damage to each of you. At that point, why not play
Price of Progress or
Flame Rift instead. Surgical's fine in the board but doesn't advance your gameplan, which is to just kill them.
Zo-Zu seems too slow. If you're on the draw (turn 3), most decks may not have any more fetching to do by turn 4 or could afford to hold back land drops.
I had toyed around with this Ankh burn deck a while ago that's more aggro focused...
//Lands: 19
4
Great Furnace15
Snow-Covered Mountain//Creatures: 8
4
Goblin Guide4
Eidolon of the Great Revel//Artifacts: 11
4
Black Vise4
Ankh of Mishra3
Winter Orb//Spells: 22
4
Lightning Bolt4
Chain Lightning4
Lava Spike3
Price of Progress3
Shrapnel Blast4
Fireblast
Sideboard could include cards like
Searing Blood,
Smash to Smithereens, etc. It's probably worse than straight burn but it could be better in some metas.
Galvanic Blast is also an option but the artifact count may be too low.
Otherwise you could try Ankh Prison with Sol Lands,
Chalice of the Void,
Trinisphere,
Ankh of Mishra,
Mana Breach,
Parallax Tide,
Tangle Wire, Planeswalkers, etc...
Consider playing two to three City of Traitors. Powering out Ankh on turn one or multiple Black Vise is absolutely insane. You really want to nail one of these cards on the first turn, and if you're playing Winter Orb, all the better.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
I tried a creature-less version for a little while, which was fun but inconsistent. To really meet the power level I needed multiple Vises or an Ankh t1. I was using a combination of Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide (so not really creature-less, lol.) I really liked Sulfuric Vortex as a threat that blanked opponent's removal.
4x Black Vise
4x Ankh of Mishra
4x Winter Orb
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Price of Progress
4x Shrapnel Blast
3x Fireblast
1x Ancient Tomb
4x Great Furnace
13x Mountain
This was pre-Light up the Stage, which I think would be pretty incredible here. I think I would cut some number of Lava Spikes for that, just because the other "burn" spells are at a much better rate (Blasts/PoP, Vise, Ankh) Bolt/Chain hit creatures, so they get the nod over Lava Spikes.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Safety
I tried a creature-less version for a little while, which was fun but inconsistent. To really meet the power level I needed multiple Vises or an Ankh t1. I was using a combination of Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide (so not really creature-less, lol.) I really liked Sulfuric Vortex as a threat that blanked opponent's removal.
4x Black Vise
4x Ankh of Mishra
4x Winter Orb
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Price of Progress
4x Shrapnel Blast
3x Fireblast
1x Ancient Tomb
4x Great Furnace
13x Mountain
This was pre-Light up the Stage, which I think would be pretty incredible here. I think I would cut some number of Lava Spikes for that, just because the other "burn" spells are at a much better rate (Blasts/PoP, Vise, Ankh) Bolt/Chain hit creatures, so they get the nod over Lava Spikes.
I would scale back on the burn. I think with Ankh and Black Vise you want to be more prison in nature. Both are highly aggressive cards, but only good on the first or second turn. That being said, Serum Powder or something using Goblin Engineer may be worthwhile.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
I would scale back on the burn. I think with Ankh and Black Vise you want to be more prison in nature. Both are highly aggressive cards, but only good on the first or second turn. That being said, Serum Powder or something using Goblin Engineer may be worthwhile.
Thanks, I didn't know where to go with it so I ended up just filling it with redundancy. I don't know what would be most effective for further prison elements; Blood Moon comes to mind, but I can't imagine this would be better than Moon Stompy. I also play Ruby Storm occasionally, which is also a very fast creature-less deck. The great part of this 'prison' deck is that it has a genuine clock, pinching time more than other resources. Goblin Engineer is interesting, but I would love to keep it creature-less. Avoiding the combat step could really offset some matchups. FTW mentioned Tangle Wire, and that seems pretty cool. Thoughts on that?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Oh. I got you. [[Torbran, Thane of Red Fell]]
Its a 4/4 that doubles all your damage, and makes all your guys swing for 2 extra damage.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Thanks for all the inputs guys, very helpful. It's funny when brewing, because it's (unsurprisingly) easy to accidentally find yourself going towards existing decks, because they are already so strong and specialised.
e.g. Ending up at Stax, or mono red prison, when starting off at a red Ankh deck.
I think the reason that I initially veered away from the ancient tomb / city of traitors route was that it makes casting all the red spells I wanted to cast tricky.
That said, I like the direction it's been taken here by you guys.
I've taken out Price of Progress, as I don't even find it that strong in my actual legacy Burn deck these days - too many basic lands being searched up with Prismatic Vista and support from astrolabe, and I've added in
So maybe something like this? (I've sneakily tried to get back in a psychogenic probe and see if it'll be accepted).
4x Black Vise
4x Ankh of Mishra
4x Winter Orb
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Light up the stage
4x Shrapnel Blast
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Tangle Wire
2x Psychogenic Probe
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Great Furnace
9x Mountain
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
I feel like Scab-Clan Berserker is the perfect card to add to the threat-suit here. Many decks just ignore Ankh, like a Show and Tell deck, while SCB will both clock them and punish them for cantripping. 8 Eidolons in a deck is going to win games. I like the bolts to speed up the clock and clear blockers.
I don't think Black Vise will do much good, sadly.. Too many decks are too good at dropping their hand quickly, daze the relevant hate piece or whatever. But you can try it. In a stax build maybe..
Harsh Mentor might be a decent addition but I kind of doubt that it'll be good enough.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
What about a very prison build?
//Mana: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Island
1 Karn's Bastion
1 Academy Ruins
4 Chrome Mox
//Prison: 26
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Trinisphere
4 Propaganda
3 Tangle Wire
3 Mana Breach
3 Parallax Tide
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
//Planeswalkers: 7
2 Dovin, Hand of Control
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Karn, the Great Creator
//Spells: 4
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Trini, Propaganda, Dovin, Tangle Wire and Tabernacle all force opponent to play more lands to do anything.
Mana Breach and Parallax Tide slow that down anyway, making opponent need EVEN MORE LAND DROPS. You can hack your own Mana Breach for City of Traitors shenanigans...
Tide + Ankh also works as a lategame combo that can deal up to 10 damage once they've played out lands.
I'm torn between Chalice of the Void and Black Vise. Chalice does a lot of work against a lot of decks. Vise seems really good here though as there are so many effects to stop the opponent from playing out his hand.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
@FTW: that looks like a nightmare to play against... Which is a compliment. ;) Black Vise would be a good wincon there, actually. Maybe play a mix of chalice and vise and see what works out better.. Maybe the mix works well even, as counter-intuitive as that is.. Mirrormade (the copy artifact/enchantment) may work there, copying Propaganda is no joke. I would skip the parallax waves though, I feel it is too low impact and quickly disappears. maybe add some board control, like a Ballista..
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pettdan
I feel like
Scab-Clan Berserker is the perfect card to add to the threat-suit here. Many decks just ignore Ankh, like a Show and Tell deck, while SCB will both clock them and punish them for cantripping. 8 Eidolons in a deck is going to win games. I like the bolts to speed up the clock and clear blockers.
I don't think Black Vise will do much good, sadly.. Too many decks are too good at dropping their hand quickly, daze the relevant hate piece or whatever. But you can try it. In a stax build maybe..
Harsh Mentor might be a decent addition but I kind of doubt that it'll be good enough.
All land drops still do 2 damage, so if you can get it early enough it's a 4-damage POP. Alternatively, it's another artifact to sacrifice to Shrapnel Blast. Getting them with a fetchland for 5 damage total is the dream, but any old land drop will do. I feel like if Shrapnel Blast was ever playable in legacy, Vise and Ankh are the artifacts to pair with it.
Sideboard Pyroblasts should do some work against S&T.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
@Mr Safety: I know from playing Painter that even 6 maindeck blasts aren't enough to reliably beat Show and Tell. By all means include them, but expect to need a lot of other interaction.
The comparison between Ankh and PoP is interesting, PoP always was a great card.. But I still think that using Berserkers to make it 8 Eidolons is a very relevant axis for attacking the legacy meta. Edit: perhaps less good if taking the deck in the stax direction..
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pettdan
@Mr Safety: I know from playing Painter that even 6 maindeck blasts aren't enough to reliably beat Show and Tell. By all means include them, but expect to need a lot of other interaction.
The comparison between Ankh and PoP is interesting, PoP always was a great card.. But I still think that using Berserkers to make it 8 Eidolons is a very relevant axis for attacking the legacy meta. Edit: perhaps less good if taking the deck in the stax direction..
I was thinking the same thing actually...that it would be (likely) one of its worst matchups. I don't know whether to just concede the matchup (it isn't a popular deck at my LGS) or over-balance my sideboard for the matchup. Berserker is great tech against cantrip-heavy decks and storm, I've always boarded it in Ruby Storm. Here however I might look to use Pyrostatic Pillar. I'm not saying Eidelon is a bad card, far from it, but blanking *all* creature removal in a format centered around creatures currently seems like one avenue towards virtual card advantage. The other problem is that it's 3 mana. I would probably have to cut the Vortex's if going that route, the curve should end at 3 mana. The apes help in that regard, but they aren't repeatable mana-sources.
Other cards that were on my test list (and will again now that my interest in the deck has been piqued) are Dead/Gone and Wasteland.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
To beat SneakShow you don't board into Blasts, you board into Ensnaring Bridge. Even if you have 6 cards in hand they can't attack. Bridge on easy mode.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
I’d even argue Hydroblast is better than Pyroblast right now.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
To beat SneakShow you don't board into Blasts, you board into
Ensnaring Bridge. Even if you have 6 cards in hand they can't attack. Bridge on easy mode.
Well, again from the Painter perspective, having loads of blasts and Ensnaring Bridges still doesn't let you win in a convincing fashion. There are many additional comments to be made but I'll save them, I was also considering mentioning Bridge which may fit really well here.
@Mr Safety: blanking removal is a good point there, have to agree.
@Michael Keller: I've been thinking of trying UR Painter for this reason but I'm not sure if it's entirely true though. BEB is good vs fair decks but vs combo you probably have much better use out of REB's, right? While still being relevant vs many fair decks.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Both Scab-Clan Berserker and Zo-Zu the Punisher seem too slow for this format.
Consider resolving one of these turn 3 on the draw, not affecting opponent until his 4th turn. How many decks can just ignore that? Unfair decks will win first. Fair decks will have removal or a blocker online by then. Even if it isn't removed, how threatening is a conditional 2-4 damage per turn starting turn 4? Is it better than Sulfuric Vortex?
Punisher pieces need to be consistently down on turn 1 or turn 2 to be relevant. Cards with 2 or 2R mana costs can be played turn 1 with a Sol Land manabase + SSG/Mox. 1RR costs are much harder to get in play quickly. Maybe turn 2 with a SSG, only to get 2-for-1'd by Lightning Bolt?
Also I like going creatureless and blanking removal.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
I am tempted to take a version of this to the next local 1k on October. I want to troll the locals with a pile of uncommons.
Do we board out Vise on the draw? If so, whats the plan for getting more threats out of the board?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Safety
I am tempted to take a version of this to the next local 1k on October. I want to troll the locals with a pile of uncommons.
Do we board out Vise on the draw? If so, whats the plan for getting more threats out of the board?
Which strategy are you going for? Sol Lands prison? Or more burn heavy? This list?
4x Black Vise
4x Ankh of Mishra
4x Winter Orb
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Price of Progress
4x Shrapnel Blast
3x Fireblast
1x Ancient Tomb
4x Great Furnace
13x Mountain
For something like that, on the draw I'd just board out Vise for creatures. Chances are they board out all removal. Maximize fringe deck trolling by making them board wrong.
Example:
-4 Vise
-2 Shrapnel Blast (fewer artifacts)
-1 Vortex (slow on the draw)
+4 creature (e.g. Eidolon of the Great Revel, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Grim Lavamancer)
+3 situational card (e.g. Smash to Smithereens, Searing Blood, Flamebreak)
If you board into Arcanist, obviously keep Lava Spike over the spectacle cards. Otherwise Light Up the Stage could be good.
Also for that list SSG is card disadvantage and most things you want to cheat out take colorless mana, so -2 SSG + 2 Ancient Tomb?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
Both
Scab-Clan Berserker and
Zo-Zu the Punisher seem too slow for this format.
Consider resolving one of these turn 3 on the draw, not affecting opponent until his 4th turn. How many decks can just ignore that? Unfair decks will win first. Fair decks will have removal or a blocker online by then. Even if it isn't removed, how threatening is a conditional 2-4 damage per turn starting turn 4? Is it better than
Sulfuric Vortex?
Punisher pieces need to be consistently down on turn 1 or turn 2 to be relevant. Cards with 2 or 2R mana costs can be played turn 1 with a Sol Land manabase + SSG/Mox. 1RR costs are much harder to get in play quickly. Maybe turn 2 with a SSG, only to get 2-for-1'd by Lightning Bolt?
Also I like going creatureless and blanking removal.
I agree about Punisher being a bit late arriving on turn 3, by then the opponent probably made 3 land drops and may not need many more lands. This may work for a stax version but it seems like a weak effect, it even was back in 1994 (edit: considering Ankh) and CMC's have been creeping down since then. I don't want to stop the brewing but I'm not tempted to play this guy myself. Edit: Ankh seems like it needs a Mana breach or some similar messing with lands to be relevant. Edit2: Mana breach is actually a very exciting card, I could see this wrecking control decks..
While for Berserker, his relevance is measured by the amount of non-creature spells the opponent needs to play during the rest of the game. Supposing you did something meaningful on turn 1 and 2, maybe bolt a creature and play Eidolon t2, the game may go on for quite a while so I think the Berserker is useful, more so than Punisher. I think it was my gut reaction that Eidolon is by far the best card in the deck for what it's trying to do and hence building on the best strategy the deck can deploy seems like a good start. (Edit: but your criticism may be relevant, if a fair deck has a blocker with large toughness it is shut off) It shuts down Storm decks from winning and is a thorn in the eye for any cantrip based deck. You always need to consider how your deck can interact with some of the most impactful strategies in the format. It also results in a trigger when answered so it's rarely a 1 for 1 for your opponent, you are effectively bolting them every time they answer it. So I think Eidolon is a good addition to any of these decks, by shutting off one of the toughest matchups and still having good synergy with the deck's strategy. And the best way to mitigate having creatures is to add 4 more copies of Eidolon.
Edit: imagine adding 4 Cindervines to this, I think I have to start brewing the 12 Eidolon deck now. It's just a shame that the deck really wants 4 Mox Diamond and 4 W6... The card we set out with the good intention of beating. ;)
Sorry for not having 30 minutes to rephrase and structure this, most points stand out hopefully. :)
Anyway.. By all means try other options.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
Thanks for the reply! Yes, I would be burn-heavy. I think anything prison will be worse than Moon Stompy. However, being a creature-less burn deck in a format full of fair decks seems pretty good. Edit: Light up the Stage also allows me to play into some card disadvantage because it's much more high-risk/high-gain. Shrapnel Blast when countered is a self-inflicted 2-for-1, so i need card advantage in some amount.
My thinking on SSG over Ancient Tomb comes in 3 parts:
1) Ancient Tomb isn't a mountain, which doesn't feed Fireblast. I think Fireblast is still one of the better burn inclusions due to it being way above curve (essentially free) for 4 damage. I don't think I want fewer than 13 basic mountains.
2) SSG is a creature in the late game when top-decked. It won't do a lot, but it might do something where Tomb would do nothing.
3) SSG makes red mana. If I'm boarding out artifacts in some matchups (likely) then Tomb loses a lot of it's usefulness and could actually color-screw me. SSG won't ever leave me short on red.
I think the only spectacle card I want is Light up the Stage. It allows me some card advantage when using SSG's and sacrificing artifacts from Blast.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
So follow me here:
Black Vise
Winter Orb
Ankh of Mishra
Great Furnace
Therefore...Ghirapur Aether Grid?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Safety
So follow me here:
Black Vise
Winter Orb
Ankh of Mishra
Great Furnace
Therefore...
Ghirapur Aether Grid?
Galvanic Blast seems like better damage:mana and damage:tempo ratio if you require at least 2 artifacts in play. Will it be much harder to hit 3? Would Arcum's Astrolabe help without slowing down the deck too much?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Open-handing Vise, Chalice, AF/ED or Ankh is key. This list was fun as hell:
4 Black Vise
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 As Foretold
4 Restore Balance
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Electrodominance
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Serum Powder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Dwarven Ruins
4 Volcanic Island
Balance is the way to go. That makes Black Vise and Ankh infinitismally better, especially with City and Dwarven Ruins where Gargadon gets a free exile shot (with City trigger) and Ruins to accelerate into AF or fix for ED, which also helps with Restore Balance’s effectiveness.
The list can be edited to fight Chalice on zero. Keep in mind: no one is casting that on zero until it’s probably too late G1. SSG fights Daze crap, too.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
Galvanic Blast seems like better damage:mana and damage:tempo ratio if you require at least 2 artifacts in play. Will it be much harder to hit 3? Would
Arcum's Astrolabe help without slowing down the deck too much?
Astrolabe would be pretty good in a Wasteland build, as it draws a card, gives Blast fodder, and lets Wasteland tap for R. Galvanic Blast could be included at that point because there would be 20 artifacts in the deck. Ghirapur Aether Grid was an idea to have repeatable damage that can grind out longer games, killing PW's and pairing up with Bolt/Chain to kill larger threats. It was an idea to keep away from creatures but still have a repeatable damage source (other than Vortex) that wasn't conditional. Galvanic is more efficient but actually requires 3 artifacts, which isn't as reliable without Astrolabe. It's an interesting idea, I might have to play around with it.
I'm back on Lava Spike over Light up the Stage. LutS is a great card, but only if the burn saturation is high enough to rip winners off the top. I haven't seen that kind of consistency as of yet, just too many permanent-based threats flipped that don't finish the job. I'm a little down on Winter Orb as well; it's really matchup dependant whether it works or not. Miracles and 4-Color control seem especially weak to it, but tempo decks like Shadow/Delver and combo decks don't care about it at all. I think it's a sideboard card, or at the least cut down to 3 copies maindeck and squeeze in another threat. The other option is to work in Wasteland to make it better, but I'm not sure I can make room without watering down the burn strategy. I've noticed if I can keep constant pressure games go well. Playing the conditional artifacts over creatures might make Wasteland a necessary evil to make them less conditional. Then Price of Progress gets worse as well. Lots of options, some with more tension than others.
I'm seriously debating something like Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout in the maindeck. I don't really have room in my sideboard for that effect and the risk is zero without creatures. The other option is Kuldotha Rebirth to give maximum value to dead artifacts.
Other cards I'm considering:
Hazoret the Fervent
Hellspark Elemental
Shrine of Burning Rage
Lotus Petal
Hazoret is indestructible, Hellspark can find windows to attack and still obviates removal, Shrine can close out in a big way if games go long. Lotus Petal would replace SSG to provide early game acceleration while providing fodder for Blasts/Rebirth. It's more 'dead' in the late game than SSG but it feeds synergies better.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
For creature removal Volcanic Fallout seems ideal. Can't be countered, instant EOT, hits opponent too so you don't lose much burn saturation.
The other options I like are Flamebreak or Slagstorm. Both hit x/3s (e.g. Dreadhorde Arcanist) but can be countered and have other drawbacks. Flamebreak misses flyers like Delver, and Slagstorm can't hit both creatures and players at the same time. Getting blown out by a counter seems like a real issue.
Yeah, Winter Orb can be bad. That's why I only had 3 in. Maybe it needs to be SB. Wasteland seems like going too far off the main plan (e.g. Fireblast gets bad).
Galvanic requires 3 artifacts for 4 damage but still does 2 damage otherwise. Ghirapur Aether Grid costs 2 more mana and needs 2 artifacts + 2 turns to deal 2 damage (separately, without killing an x/2), 4 turns to deal 4 damage, and does nothing with fewer than 2 artifacts. Tapping Great Furnace and Winter Orb also have drawbacks. Grid has a lot of long-term grind potential but I can't see it having more impact in a short game. SB card vs control?
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
For creature removal
Volcanic Fallout seems ideal. Can't be countered, instant EOT, hits opponent too so you don't lose much burn saturation.
The other options I like are
Flamebreak or
Slagstorm. Both hit x/3s (e.g. Dreadhorde Arcanist) but can be countered and have other drawbacks. Flamebreak misses flyers like Delver, and Slagstorm can't hit both creatures and players at the same time. Getting blown out by a counter seems like a real issue.
Yeah, Winter Orb can be bad. That's why I only had 3 in. Maybe it needs to be SB. Wasteland seems like going too far off the main plan (e.g.
Fireblast gets bad).
Galvanic requires 3 artifacts for 4 damage but still does 2 damage otherwise. Ghirapur Aether Grid costs 2 more mana and needs 2 artifacts + 2 turns to deal 2 damage (separately, without killing an x/2), 4 turns to deal 4 damage, and does nothing with fewer than 2 artifacts. Tapping
Great Furnace and
Winter Orb also have drawbacks. Grid has a lot of long-term grind potential but I can't see it having more impact in a short game. SB card vs control?
I forgot about the WOrb tap clause, that's a no-no unless I do it only on my opponent's turn (which can be good, but then my opponents can play around it.) I don't think Orb is good enough for that deep of a synergy, either.
I'll do Galvanic over Lava Spike, especially as it still hits creatures. Good call there. It's above rate if I can turn on metalcraft.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Love it! I might do Pyrostatic Pillar in the board, just because i never grabbed Eidelons. I don't see Astrolabe doing anything beyond draw/fodder for Blasts. I might want some number of Kuldotha Rebirth in place of some number of Fireblast.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Yeah Astrolabe is just there to cheat up the artifact count. Cantripping for 1 doesn't seem terrible. Another option is Urza's Bauble, which Burn used to run ages ago for "free deck thinning". The problem is you can't get both the thinning and Blast count from Baubles at the same time.
I like Eidolon in the SB because they'll board out all creature removal and board in artifact hate, but Pillar still works against Storm and spell-heavy decks.
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Re: Psychogenic Ankh - Shuffle Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
Yeah Astrolabe is just there to cheat up the artifact count. Cantripping for 1 doesn't seem terrible. Another option is
Urza's Bauble, which Burn used to run ages ago for "free deck thinning". The problem is you can't get both the thinning and Blast count from Baubles at the same time.
I like Eidolon in the SB because they'll board out all creature removal and board in artifact hate, but Pillar still works against Storm and spell-heavy decks.
I think that the artifacts need to be doing more than just cantripping to make this a valid strategy. I may be wrong and Astrolabe is good enough, but I don't think so. I will likely already have 'dead' artifacts to sac to Blasts with obsolete Vises, an Furnace, or an Ankh/Orb FTW. Sixteen artifacts to sac to the set of Blasts seems like enough. Urza's Bauble seems like the same situation, really. I think any artifacts need to be good on their own and double as fodder for Blasts, not be fodder for the blasts as their primary function. If that were the case I'd probably play something like Ichor Wellspring to get 2 draws out of it. Cursed Scroll seems passable, and Meekstone could do some work.
