Song of Creation Storm

Song of Creation was just spoiled, and I think it might be a good storm engine. Here's a quick decklist I threw together. Any thoughts on how we might get this to work? My inclination right now is that we want to be ramping into this enchantment and then casting a few 0cc manarocks to get it started.

https://i.redd.it/2hn0bv0xqlr41.png


4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Song of Creation
3 Chrome Mox
3 Mox Opal
4 Force of Will
2 Defense Grid
4 Rite of Flame
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
3 Burning Wish
4 Veil of Summer
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn


Sideboard would include the storm win conditions like Tendrils and Empty the Warrens.

i would also consider cards like


skyshroud cutter
summoner's pact


(pact is then a draw 4 for 0 mana). i'd also consider other cards that cost 0 mana besides the mana rocks. maybe it makes sense in some kind of show and tell hive mind deck? you still need a win condition.

the issue is that the deck is horribly reliable on one card. i would try to see if it's possible to run it in an existing deck without warping it too much.

red ramp spells like rite of flame (as you listed) are really strong here. i could see a case to push this into a ruby storm build, albeit with some duals and with prob heavier reliance on mox opal.

with this enchantment out it's probably game over. faithless looting is also very powerful here. anyway, good luck with the shell. i'll consider tinkering around, but it will take some time for it to be better than the existing storm decks.

I'm going to assume that this will need Enlightened tutor given that the enchantment is the linchpin combo piece. Unlike the old breach decks that could find and get breach and the combo into play through other means or redundancy this deck does not have it.

Trying to see how many "free cards" you actually need

Turn 1 - Land + Enlightened Tutor
Turn 2 - Land + Cantrip
Turn 3 - Land + Accel --> Song of Creation (you have 3 cards in hand. Assuming 2 are freely castable, you will draw 4. Out of those 4 you will probably draw a land so you can play it now. And out of the remaining 4 cards in your hand you should have a card that is freely castable and a 1 mana cantrip. Casting those would draw you 4 cards plus the card from the cantrip. Out of those 5 cards you should get a card that is freely castable, and out of the cards that you freely cast thus far, one of them should provide mana so you can cast another cantrip. Hopefully you repeat that in different steps until you draw your deck or win. When you start the turn you will have 51 cards left in the library.)

I would estimate that you would need at least 13 "free cards" in your library and at least 11 of them need to be such that they can generate mana for you to cast a cantrip (so no LED), and you need at least 12 cantrips.

So at bare minimum for a turn 3 Win I am guessing:

4 Tutor
4 Song of Creation

4 Petal
4 Mox Opal
3 Chrome Mox
2 [Free Cards]

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

18 Lands

That leaves about 9 cards for protection [Daze/Veil] and wincon.

Yeah this looks like it needs a tutor badly to find Song of Creation. I would consider a backup engine too, maybe Experimental Frenzy.

Because Song costs 4 mana and you have to keep casting spells after it, protection that costs more mana that turn (Veil of Summer) seems bad maindeck, whereas free protection (FoW) and cards you cast earlier (Grid) seem much better.

LED seems bad here because you can't abuse the graveyard, and you draw the 2 cards before LED resolves (can't crack in response). It only really works with Burning Wish.

Here's a draft of a shell with ETutor. It finds Song but struggles to assemble a win condition after that.


//Hand Sculpting: 16
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Enlightened Tutor

//Artifacts: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
3 Arcum's Astrolabe
3 Defense Grid
1 Aetherflux Reservoir

//Other Spells: 8
4 Force of Will
4 Song of Creation

//Lands: 18
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest

//Sideboard: 15
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
1 Force of Negation
1 City of Solitude
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Serenity
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Deafening Silence


The win condition is Aetherflux Reservoir, which can be found by E Tutor or cantrips. You can win this turn, or just gain some life and pass and try to win next turn.
That's a more controlling route. It has the option to board into Snowko, where Song is just used as a value engine to recover cards instead of a 1-shot combo.

I don't know how to fit in other storm kills here. Cantrips and ETutor don't make it easy to find cards like Tendrils or Brain Freeze. The fizzle rate would be very high. You cast Song and draw 8 cards but then can't do anything and discard your hand. So instead of adding combo protection, the SB tilts towards fair win conditions.



Or you could go more explosively with Burning Wish + Lion's Eye Diamond + Echo of Eons


//Artifacts: 18
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Chrome Mox
3 Defense Grid

//Engines: 6
3 Song of Creation
3 Echo of Eons

//Spells: 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Gamble
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish

//Lands: 16
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain

//Sideboard: 15
2 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Echo of Eons
1 Reverent Silence
1 Pulverize
1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Past in Flames


The downside of Gamble is offset by the insane draw engine of Song if it resolves. Gamble is also good with LED+Echo engines.
Manamorphose helps filter colored mana for Song or other spells, and it's a "free spell" that imprints well on Chrome Mox.

Edit: The red Gamble/Burning Wish shell seems way more viable to me. More stable mana, much better backup engine, easier way to find win conditions.

The Echo build is pretty good! It could use some tuning for consistency and protection but overall I like the shell.


//Lands: 14
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Badlands

//Artifacts: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
3 Defense Grid

//Engines: 7
4 Song of Creation
3 Echo of Eons

//Other Spells: 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Gamble
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish

//Wishboard: 10
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Echo of Eons
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reverent Silence
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shenanigans

//Sideboard: 5
2 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Abrupt Decay


This has 24 spells that are either "free" or net positive mana. Also 8 tutors and 7 other spells that draw an obscene number of cards (Brainstorm & Echo). Once Song is in play it's very easy to keep the chain going. With as little as 1 mana rock in hand you can draw your whole deck!

Manamorphose was very strong for filtering into RUG for Song or BB for Tendrils.



17 Goldfishes
Turn 1 kills: 4
Turn 2 kills: 7
Turn 3 with Grid: 5
Turn 4 with Grid: 1


Examples:
1) LED, Echo, Mox, Song, fetch, Brainstorm, land
LED+Echo (Draw 7) -> Rite x2, Manamorphose (RRUG). Song -> chain mana rocks -> storm 25 -> Wish for Tendrils

2) LED, Echo, Mox, Grid, Manamorphose, Brainstorm, Wish
T1 LED -> Echo. Gamble for Song, discard land.
T2 Opal, Mox. Song. Petal (draw 2), LED (draw 2), LED (draw 2), 2 lands, Manamorphose (draw 3). Defense Grid (draw 2) -> draw deck (4 cards left). Wish -> Tendrils for a lot
WARNING: Song is not a "may" trigger, so I had to be careful about decking here when all Wishes were in the bottom 7 cards.

3) LEDx2, Wishx2, Gamble, Rite, Echo
T1 LED, LED, Echo. Brainstorm, fetch, Ritex2, Manamorphosex3 (RRUGBB), Mox, Wish -> Tendrils storm 12

4) Mull to 6: Song, Grid, Manamorphose, Opal, fetch, land
T2 Grid
T3 Brainstorm. Rite, Rite, Manamorphose (RRUG), Song. Opal (Draw 2). Opal (Draw 2). Fizzle. Play 2 lands. EOT discard land + Echo.
T4 Flashback Echo-> win


Cute Song Tricks
- If you fizzle, it lets you EOT discard Echo of Eons to flashback next turn.

- You draw 2 cards to Chrome Mox before making a choice of whether to imprint or what

- Brainstorm draws you 5 cards before you have to put back 2

- With Gamble, you get 2 extra cards in hand before having to choose a tutor target (more info) or doing a random discard (higher odds to keep the card)

- You can respond to the draw trigger (e.g. draw 2 on the stack, cast Manamorphose, crack LED. Now you get 5 cards in hand for the LED mana)

- Song imprints very well on Chrome Mox

4 hive mind
4 summoner's pact
1 pact of the titan
4 pact of negation
4 force of will
4 show and tell
4 song of creation
4 grim monolith
4 lotus petal
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 chrome mox
1 skyshroud cutter



I did overlook manamorphose, which seems great as well.

It seems wrong to play Show and Tell into a draw engine but not use it for Griselbrand. Griselbrand could be good here too.

Manamorphose is very good:
-filters into RUG to cast Song
-"free" spell that draws 3 cards with Song
-imprints onto Chrome Mox for R/G, fixing for the 2 harder colors if you're in a blue cantrip shell

I've been testing out this cantrip shell. It's not as fast or explosive as the Gamble+Echo one, but it should have a better interactive game and SB plan.


//Lands: 16
3 Prismatic Vista
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga

//Artifacts: 17
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Chrome Mox
3 Mox Opal
3 Defense Grid

//Enchantments: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 23
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Veil of Summer
4 Burning Wish

//Sideboard: 15
1 Echo of Eons
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reverent Silence
1 By Force
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
2 Brazen Borrower
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm


The SB plan B is Oko.

Oko works through all the storm hate and other hate, it has tons of Elk fodder through the all the artifacts already in the deck, it can singlehandedly hold off creatures while you try to assemble the main win, and it can Elk most annoying hate pieces. I think it's a nice synergistic fit. Unlike something like Monastery Mentor, Oko still wins through Deafening Silence, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Trinisphere and even helps remove some of those cards.

Another plan to consider might be something building around Academy Rector, which tutors Song of Creation right into play. Although at that point making Omniscience may just be better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

Another plan to consider might be something building around Academy Rector, which tutors Song of Creation right into play. Although at that point making Omniscience may just be better.

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Yeah if you're using Academy Rector (4 cmc) to cheat a 4 cmc enchantment, something seems wrong. You're better off just getting like Omniscience or Overwhelming Splendor or Form of the Dragon.

Also if you're in white you can just run Enlightened Tutor to find it.

So, im playing a lot of this on MTGO.

4 Misty
3 Split of blue fetches
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Trop
1 Volc

8 Mox
4 LED
4 Petal
4 ESG

10 Cantrips

1 Chain of.Vapor
4 Veil
4 Grid

4 Song
3 Echo
2 BW

Side

4 E.Truth
4 Swarm
4 T. Crypt
1 ToA
1 Grapeshot
1 Echo

So first thoughts are, Im getting VERY close games vs Delver and when I lose it's because Im missing on mana.
So I think that I want more lands, going up to 14 most likely, adding a fetch and probably another basic Island. I feel like I want to make solid land drops all the time. ESG were terrible so im cutting on that, that gives me 2 extra slot for 2 Preordain I think, or for 2 BW to maximize the Veil --> BW LED Echo line which is so dumb.

About the sideboard.

The scary cards are: Thalia , Deafing Silence, Leovold/Narset, Null Rod, Pyrostatic Pillar (that the new Lurrus Delver is playing).
Truth deals with most of them, but the problem is that I already want to board in Swarm vs fair blue. Maybe it's a bit over kill to have 12 protection spells?
Krosan Grip or Wipe Away, are also interesting options.

I agree, Veil/Grid + LED + Echo lines are dumb and worth adding more copies of Burning Wish for.

I tried Spirit Guides but they only made sense in a Belcher-esque build with very few lands, and not getting to draw from them hurts. Otherwise lands are better.

This was the Spirit Guide list I tried, when I was trying to both get more speed and avoid cards like Echo of Eons. It was fast (many turn 2s without relying on randomness) but fizzled more and seemed easier to disrupt.


//Lands: 11
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island

//0 CMC: 24
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

//1 CMC: 10
4 Tinder Wall
4 Rite of Flame
2 Magmatic Insight

//2 CMC: 8
4 Burning Wish
4 Manamorphose

//Higher CMC: 7
4 Song of Creation
3 Empty the Warrens

//Sideboard: 15
4 Veil of Summer
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Echo of Eons
1 Reverent Silence
1 Cave-In
1 Pyroclasm
1 By Force
1 Shenanigans


It uses the explosive mana generation of Belcher without the RRR rituals (which both make you weaker to counters and are not helpful for casting Song), using more lands instead since there is no Belcher. Needle provides a +2 boost. Lands help cast answers and fix Song colors.

Magmatic Insight was tech to draw more gas and empty lands to cast free Land Grants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jax-

The scary cards are: Thalia , Deafing Silence, Leovold/Narset, Null Rod, Pyrostatic Pillar (that the new Lurrus Delver is playing).

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That's where 4x Burning Wish helps.
Reverent Silence, Pulverize/By Force, Pyroclasm
Those cards have to die.

Oko is a hilarious answer for some of those cards / alternate wincon.

Quote:

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Truth deals with most of them, but the problem is that I already want to board in Swarm vs fair blue. Maybe it's a bit over kill to have 12 protection spells?

---

Yeah we are constrained on space. If you board in too much interaction, it can dilute the main engine too and lead to more Song fizzles. I find BWish a clean solution for space efficiency. Some bounce is also good.

4x Swarm + 4x Veil + 4x Grid seems excessive. You probably don't need 4 Swarms in SB, while some Spell Pierce or Force of Negation might be useful against nonblue hate.

Now that Lurrus is gone, this deck might be playable.

Jegantha, the Wellspring is a possible Commander if you're willing to cut FoW.


//Lands: 16
3 Prismatic Vista
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga

//Artifacts: 20
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Arcum's Astrolabe
3 Defense Grid
2 Engineered Explosives

//Enchantments: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Veil of Summer
4 Burning Wish

//Sideboard: 15
1 Jegantha, The Wellspring
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 By Force
1 Past in Flames
2 Echo of Eons
2 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns


Oko is a Plan B to win through too much storm hate. It also Elks storm hate.

Another option is to put 4 FoW in the SB to board in for matches where Force matters more than a Companion (e.g. Chalice).

Jegantha has some useful synergies with the deck:
-Most cards you want fit the requirement anyway (except for maindeck Echo and FoW)
-Another threat, when you have ramp but nothing to spend mana on, castable as early as turn 1-2 with LED
-They will board out creature removal
-Its mana helps cast Song of Creation and Engineered Explosives

Now that Companion is nerfed, this deck keeps getting better and needs to see play.

Without the Jegantha limitation you can run FoW



//Lands: 16
3 Prismatic Vista
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga

//Artifacts: 17
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Arcum's Astrolabe
2 Defense Grid

//Enchantments: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 23
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Veil of Summer
4 Burning Wish

//Sideboard: 15
2 Echo of Eons
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reverent Silence
1 By Force
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
2 Brazen Borrower
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Negation


A more explosive version can go:
+3 Echo of Eons MD
+1 Grid
-1 Veil
-1 Wish
-2 Preordain

If you can get Song to resolve, with a single mana rock in hand you can chain into Storm 20. Even with an empty hand, any spell you topdeck next turn can chain you into a win. Song is that explosive. The hardest part is just getting it to land. Oko is a good secondary wincon.

I think you want to run 3 echoes in the main. You can’t play more than 1 in TES due to AdN. Here there’s no such restriction. Since your tutors can’t fetch your engine i think you need more engine cards to draw into.
Secondly i think you want Rite of flame to produce more mana. I would also play Veil #4.
I would cut some number of preordain, a land and the some number of astrolabes, maybe opal #4 for this.

When building a SB i would look at TES as the decks play out similarly and that deck have 1000 of hours of tuning behind the SB choices. Notably i don’t think you need Oko as it doesnt support the main plan.

Thanks for the comments.

Does this need to copy TES? TES is a very strong deck but has structural differences. It has to go off quickly. Like most storm decks it needs a critical number of cards, it runs a lot of card disadvantage, plus Ad Nauseam depends on life total, so TES needs to be explosive and race. Song can go that route but it doesn't have to.

Once you resolve and protect Song, at almost any life total and with almost nothing in hand (1-2 0cc cards), you basically win. The draw engine is insanely powerful.

The hardest part is just sticking Song. You can try to do that explosively (e.g. rituals, mana accel), but that opens you up to card disadvantage blowouts if Song is stopped. After some testing I didn't like that. You can also play a grindier game and then just use Song as an "I Win" button. That grindy plan worked well for combo decks like Breach and Bant Zirda, both of which also don't care about life total or need a critical mass of rituals to win. My latest Song shell is more structured around that and how I brewed those other decks, which explains some of the card choices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackaBo

I think you want to run 3 echoes in the main.

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The version I posted and tested higher in the thread had 3 Echoes main. That leads to a more explosive direction. I started with Echo because of the lack of tutors for Song (you can splash white for ETutor or black for black tutors, but the 4th color and card disadvantage aren't great and the deck was testing more smoothly without them).

The Echo build has a very fast goldfish rate, after a lot of testing. I cut Echo just because LED+Echo has downsides in some matchups. It's explosive but high variance. Maybe it's still worth it. I'm on the fence.

Quote:

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Secondly i think you want Rite of flame to produce more mana.

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I tested Rite in an earlier build above. It's OK but not great, because you're trying to produce 1RUG. Multiple red mana isn't particularly useful for anything other than an Empty plan B. It worked best with 4 Rite + 3-4 Manamorphose (e.g. double Rite + Manamorphose produces RRUG, or you can make UU for Brainstorm/Ponder). Unfortunately that takes up a lot of space. Manamorphose is also great when going off (3 cards off Song for net 0 mana, filters colors) and imprints well on Chrome Mox, but it's really bad pre-combo.

Astrolabe could also help filter Rite mana into U or G, both of which are more useful than red.

Once you have Song out, you don't really need rituals for extra mana. The engine, mana rocks and extra land drops are a lot.

Quote:

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I would cut some number of preordain, a land and the some number of astrolabes, maybe opal #4 for this.

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From testing Preordain is probably the weakest slot, especially if Echo comes back as a better way to dig into Song.

Opal is very strong here. Song goes off with a critical mass of 0 cmc mana rocks in the deck. If Opal #4 goes, it should be another Chrome Mox, otherwise you start losing momentum and the whole point of playing Song over some other engine.

Astrolabe is weak during Song chains (dud if you don't have Snow mana up), though it does help filter for 1RUG and turn on Opal. It's another easy cut.

Quote:

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When building a SB i would look at TES as the decks play out similarly and that deck have 1000 of hours of tuning behind the SB choices. Notably i don’t think you need Oko as it doesnt support the main plan.

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The Wishboard is pretty similar. I prefer By Force over Pulverize for a less-explosive deck that wants to keep its own artifacts and lands.

Oko is plan B to win through hate. It also Elks hate. The Oko plan was very strong in Bant Zirda, and it sort of serves a similar role here. It's the RUG equivalent of Monastery Mentor. Sometimes it's easier to just ignore hate instead of trying answer all of it. Even TES stumbles when it needs to draw multiple Chains/Decays to answer permanents, and RUG can't even play Decay. Bryant's recent builds are good at beating blue (Grid, Veil, Hope) but aren't great at answering more than one permanent-based hate (even cutting some Wish tools), which comes up in some of his streams.

Borrower vs Chain is to play around Chalice and also be another plan B. Too slow for TES but could work here.

This is the more explosive list I tested before.

It goldfishes very consistently between LED+Echo and Gamble, but it lacks protection and can get blown out if Song is answered.

It has a similar SB plan to TES (Wishboard, Empty plan B, Decay and Hope). It runs more like TES in general with the manabase, Grid, Rite, etc.

This has a fast goldfish rate but I'm not convinced that it has a better win % against disruptive opponents than the slower RUG Xerox plan.



//Lands: 14
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Badlands

//Artifacts: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
3 Defense Grid

//Engines: 7
4 Song of Creation
3 Echo of Eons

//Other Spells: 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Gamble
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish

//Wishboard: 10
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Echo of Eons
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reverent Silence
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shenanigans

//Sideboard: 5
2 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Abrupt Decay

You make a good case for the slower variant and some of the card choices that i mentioned are sound under that slower premise.

I'm excited to see this getting some attention now that companions aren't breaking everything. I live the idea of a grindier build. What are y'alls thoughts on Faithless Looting as something that can be flashed back once we start going off? Maybe over some number of Burning Wish\Preordain\Brainstorm?

I think we should start brewing towards the new draw spell that was leaked. Someone less lazy than I am will link properly if need be but it basically reads:

Quote:

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B
Instant
As an additional cost sacrifice a creature.
Draw 2 cards.

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From M21 is memory serves.

I think it fits perfectly in grindy combo builds of all sorts, especially when you can incorporate things like Veteran Explorer, striges and other ETB effects / mana effects as well as enable Cabal Therapy as disruption.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemon

I'm excited to see this getting some attention now that companions aren't breaking everything. I live the idea of a grindier build. What are y'alls thoughts on Faithless Looting as something that can be flashed back once we start going off? Maybe over some number of Burning Wish\Preordain\Brainstorm?

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I think you both should test the shell a bit and see the raw power of the Song draw engine.

Faithless Looting is unnecessary. More draw 2s are unnecessary. (Magmatic Insight is in color and probably better than the black card).

You don't really need any more help drawing cards once you start going off. I cast maybe 1-2 cantrips and leave a bunch of unused Ponders in hand. The 0-mana artifacts are enough. You just chain them and draw your deck. Sometimes, due to variance, you will draw a bunch of spells in a row and run out of mana rocks. Cantrips bridge that gap and find the next rocks. In those cases, mana is the limiting factor, so I would much rather pay 1 mana to dig 5 cards (Brainstorm, Preordain, Ponder) than 3 mana to dig 4 cards (Looting flashback).

With that in mind, the main role of the cantrips is to fix your hand (find Song, find mana, beat disruption). You don't need many to go off. The blue cantrips do that better than the other 1-mana draw spells. Maybe the deck needs a real tutor.

Overall the weakest point is getting Song into play and beating disruption. "Going off" is pretty easy after that. The combo chain plays itself.

PS - Brainstorm being instant is very useful. You can cast a 0-mana spell, stack the draw 2, cast brainstorm in response (stacking another draw 2), then crack LEDs for mana in response. You'll end up drawing 5 cards with all that mana floating. If you crack a fetch after Brainstorming, you draw 7 and get rid of 2 duds.

Mana-neutral or mana-positive effects like Manamorphose (draw 3 for net 0 mana) and Rite of Flame (draw 2, +1 mana) and even Mishra's Bauble are probably worth considering over more draw spells. Manamorphose also enables even crazier stack tricks with Brainstorm and LED. Otherwise, the deck just needs ways to find and protect Song, or a plan B.

I tested the "turbo" version of this (Rite, Echo) against RUG Delver and kept getting wrecked by counters. LED-Echo was especially risky, leaving me more vulnerable to blowouts. Stifle+Wasteland hurt even more with the lower land count and more duals.

Then I tested this Xerox version against RUG Delver and won 11/20 (55%) preboard:

//Lands: 16
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Prismatic Vista
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga

//Artifacts: 17
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
2 Chrome Mox
3 Defense Grid

//Enchantment: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 23
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Veil of Summer
4 Burning Wish

//Wishboard: 8
1 Echo of Eons
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Pulverize
1 Reverent Silence
1 By Force
1 Pyroclasm


I think is a pretty good rate for combo vs blue. It's not broken like some other combo decks I tested (Breach, Zirda), but it has legs to go off consistently and fight disruption. The worst losses were from multiple Stifle/Wasteland effects attacking the mana, then getting buried by Daze and Spell Pierce.

I will probably change:
-1 Burning Wish (move to SB)
+1 fetch

I want 4 Wish postboard vs Prison decks, but multiple Wish are bad draws against blue decks.

Some useful tricks:
- Under a Veil or Grid, you can Force your own spell just to draw 2 cards for 0 mana.
- Early Wish for Echo bluffs that you're going for an Echo line, even when you just got it to have a blue card for FoW.
- Wish for Echo protects against risk of decking out before reaching lethal storm (especially for Grapeshot lines vs enemy Veil).
- Engineered Explosives functions as a 0cc artifact when going off, but also kills things pre-combo. Might put 1 back in the SB.

Thanks for testing! I just got my Songs in the Mail today. I agree that testing against delver should be #1 priority and somewhere about 50% sounds reasonable to aim for. I will see where testing takes me and report back!

Carpet of Flowers seems like a useful sideboard card against blue tempo decks. The trick where you play it in the precombat main phase and then generate mana in the postcombat main phase can allow it to act like a green ritual effect. Either you cast it precombat and go off postcombat, or you go off precombat and cast this if you were going to run out of mana, then continue postcombat. This deck seems like a good home for a one-mana hasty Llanowar-Elf-Dark-Ritual.
Edit: And 11-9 preboard vs Delver seems pretty respectable!

I really like this xerox list. I agree that Carpet of Flowers and Engineered Explosives sound really good. Chain of Vapor also seems pretty good as a sideboard option for permanent removal that can also double as a U: draw 10 by bouncing your 0cc stuff. How often did you find yourself reaching for Tendrils or Empty the Warrens? It seems to me like once you have the enchantment storm count doesn't really matter anymore.

Carpet of Flowers looks great! It fights their attack on the manabase, which is Delver's best line at beating this. I'll run at least 2 copies. I prefer it even over more copies of Veil or Flusterstorm, because those involve holding extra mana open (in tempo games it's far more likely to never reach 5 mana than to need more 1cc answers in hand). Veil is somewhat weak in those matches (needs 1RUGG). FoW and Grid pull more weight. I use Veil primarily to resolve Grid or get a 2-for-1 protecting cantrips to pull ahead in cards.

Running 1-of EE SB so far. I like it. When I tested 2 maindeck EEs in the Jegantha build it was never bad. Most decks, even Storm, play 0-3cc nonland permanents. At worst it's a 1-for-1 that buys time.

Chain of Vapor looks good. I'll have to weigh the combo synergy vs the inabilty to stop Chalice @ 1. If it's win-more, then Echoing Truth might be better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemon

How often did you find yourself reaching for Tendrils or Empty the Warrens? It seems to me like once you have the enchantment storm count doesn't really matter anymore.

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I get Tendrils most games. In practice, I could ignore the threat of Veil due to Grid or FoWs.

Why not Grapeshot? Storm 20 is tricky, not for running out of gas, but running out of library! Draw 2 is not optional! To avoid losing, you need spare cards in the library (Burning Wish + kill triggers draw 4, and any FoW protection triggers another draw 2). It's often not possible to reach storm 20 before running out of library. It might involve Wish for Echo (both exiled), reshuffling, giving the opponent a fresh grip, and then chaining more spells into the next Wish. It's doable but a lot more work. Tendrils is a smoother kill if you think it will resolve.

EtW is a backup line if I can't resolve Song (e.g. Burning Wish + LED into Empty for 8-12 goblins). That's enough to win some games. I haven't used it much, but in many matchups it's a better Hail Mary than Echo giving them a fresh grip of FoW + Spell Pierce + Oko. I did that once and lost, realizing a simple Empty would have probably won that game.

Has anyone else managed to play the deck yet?

I tried an Intuition package with Noxious Revival. First I tried cutting Preordains but my draws got too inconsistent. Then i tried it over the Chrome Moxes. It ran better but still felt clunky and short on mana.

Tested against UR Delver preboard, winning 5/10.

G1 Hard Tendrils
(Petalx3, Veil countered by FoW, LEDx2, Wish -> Tendrils for 18 playing through Daze)

G2 Loss (couldn't hit 4 mana for Song)

G3 Song with Grid & FoW

G4 Song with Grid & Veil

G5 Mull to 5. Lost to double FoW

G6 Song with Grid

G7 Empty for 16 Goblins got there
(Brainstorm, Preordain, Opal, Petal, LED, Wish + Brainstorm, Empty)
Opponent was at 17, so if Brainstorm found a 0cc, Tendrils would have won that turn!

G8 Loss. Wish with 3 mana @ 3 life. Went for Echo and drew duds. Not sure if there was a better possible play.

G9 Loss (1 mana short of both Song or Empty lines)

G10 Loss. Intuition for Song, then resolved Song at 7 life, 1 mana or 0cc spell short to go off.


Intuition never helped win a game, and I was often short by exactly 1 mana rock, so cutting Chrome Mox seems bad.

I'm still tooling around with this deck, although I don't feel its power level is compelling enough that I would play it in a big tournament (if those were even happening). I've found Mox Diamond to be the most interesting card in the deck, since Song of Creation allows you to draw the cards from the trigger before Mox Diamond resolves, enabling you to draw into land and then discard if you want to keep the Mox (which you almost always want to do). Having a slightly higher land count also enables the extra land drop that Song gives you. Sometimes it's correct to set up a cantrip on top, cast Song, pass the turn and discard your hand, and then go off with all your mana available the next turn.

Chrome Mox allows the same trick. You don't imprint until after you draw 2, and you can choose to imprint nothing after seeing what cards you draw.

There are a lot subtle tricks to playing out the combo. One is that you can play Song and pass to go off next turn. But in my experience 90% of the time I can go off the turn I cast Song, without needing much (or any) mana up once it's in play. When I do go for a "pass the turn" line, it's due to lacking gas in hand more than needing to hold open more lands.

If you're finding yourself fizzling short on mana, there are some tricks to exploit:

- At 14-16 0cc spells (not including FoW) the engine hits a critical momentum. I'd avoid going any lower.

- If you already resolved a Veil, your spells are uncounterable so you can FoW your own spell to draw 2 for 0 mana and your spell still resolves.

- Brainstorm lets you dig 5 cards deep for U before you have to put any cards back

- LED is a powerhouse. With a spell and draw 2 on the stack, you can play other instants (e.g. Brainstorm, Veil of Summer, Force of Will) in response, stack their draw 2s, then crack LED for UUU. That gives a lot of mana to cast cantrips with a new grip of 5+ cards, usually enough momentum to keep going from there. In my builds blue is the best to float off a blind LED crack, but that may very based on deck build and game state.

- You can also stack instants over draw 2s to dig the most cards deep before putting back 2 cards with Brainstorm and cracking a fetch.

- Preordain lets you scry away the last cards you see, which is sometimes better than Brainstorming 2 duds on top only to draw them again off your next spell.

- Burning Wish + LED for Echo lets you reshuffle and draw 7 to refresh and keep going. It's a pretty safe play under Grid protection, and if you draw 2 good cards off Wish you may not even need to Echo yet.

- Song of Creation is not legendary. I've had more than one win under double Song.

- Each Song enables an extra land drop. That extra land is an important mana source, especially fetches for Brainstorm.

- extra Songs in hand are great to pitch to FoW or imprint on Chrome Mox

- Noxious Revival costs 0 and can set up a 0cc spell on top (e.g. Petal, Opal).

- You can use LED mana to help cast Song if you set up Song on top of your library with a cantrip (also a good way to play around discard).

- When you FoW your own spell, you can draw the cards first. Once I had nothing but FoW+FoW left when casting Opal. Instead of pitching Force to Force, I drew 2 off Opal first and saw another blue card. Then I pitched one to Force Opal, drawing 2 first, then pitched another blue card to Force the Force. Take advantage of the extra draws first when you need them.


There's probably other stuff too. I got a lot of mileage out of sequencing. Overall I'm usually casting Tendrils Storm 15-20 the turn I hit 4-5 mana to resolve Song.

My bigger obstacle so far has been sticking Song vs 4 FoW 4 Daze 4 Wasteland, but once I have Song it's pretty smooth sailing.

have you considered trying out some non-zero numbers of show and tell? it's a lot easier to cast when playing around wasteland and if they have counters it can eat one up at the worst.

there's also some riddlesmith list that came up recently. that could function as a pretty strong alternate engine for the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

there's also some riddlesmith list that came up recently. that could function as a pretty strong alternate engine for the deck.

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I like Riddlesmith. That would encourage a higher artifact count, maybe with MD EE.

i found the list on reddit this morning. i'm at work now, but can find it later. i think it had 1 of the guy that returns back to hand from graveyard when you play an artifact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i found the list on reddit this morning. i'm at work now, but can find it later. i think it had 1 of the guy that returns back to hand from graveyard when you play an artifact.

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Yeah, the combo is usually with Ovalchase Daredevil. That dilutes the main engine, but it does add another way to go off faster.

Maybe something like this


//Artifacts: 19
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Chrome Mox
3 Defense Grid
1 Engineered Explosives

//Creatures: 7
4 Riddlesmith
3 Ovalchase Daredevil

//Enchantments: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 14
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Burning Wish

//Lands: 16
10 fetches
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island


That should work, but it has less protection. Then again, Veil is pretty slow at defending Song anyway.

had a min to grab it:


3 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
1 Ovalchase Daredevil
4 Riddlesmith
4 Burning Wish
3 Echo of Eons
1 Ponder
2 Entomb
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
3 Song of Creation
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island



1 Echo of Eons
2 Abrade
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Toxic Deluge

Interesting. That looks explosive. Was that a 5-0?

It looks like it would struggle more against disruption (less protection, more all-in lines with Echo, and more GY vulnerability) but steamrolls other decks with redundancy.

The Entomb package with 1-of Ovalchase and Echo is cool.

I tested it out against Delver. It's better than I thought. Despite no protection, it has a lot of redundancy. Emry and Narset are powerful backup engines to dig into more gas.

I might have 2-3 Riddlesmiths/Songs answered before resolving a wincon, but any engine is enough to go off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I tested it out against Delver. It's better than I thought. Despite no protection, it has a lot of redundancy. Emry and Narset are powerful backup engines to dig into more gas.

I might have 2-3 Riddlesmiths/Songs answered before resolving a wincon, but any engine is enough to go off.

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Hi All! I built the deck posted above. I'm having a ton of success with it. Here's the latest list that I think is absolute gas.

3 Echo of Eons
4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Burning Wish
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Narset, Parter of Veils
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Riddlesmith
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
2 Ovalchase Daredevil
3 Chrome Mox
2 Polluted Delta
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Song of Creation
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Urza's Bauble

2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Shattering Spree
1 Pyroclasm
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reverent Silence
1 Void Snare
1 Echo of Eons
2 Abrade

I've been meaning to write a primer for the deck, because there's lots of subtle and interesting play patterns with it. In the mean time, please let me know if you have any questions, suggestions, or anything at all. Enjoy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Has anyone else managed to play the deck yet?

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Not your version, but I’ve dabbled with Song in my Orcish Lumberjack / Titania deck (because I’d rather put broken cards in a bad deck than build a broken deck, I suppose). I had the same observation that once you go off, you’re limited on mana, never cards. I used Lotus Cobras with fetches as a way to get mana; one Cobra is 0cc if you follow it with a fetch, and if you have more than one Cobra or if one Cobra sees more than one land drop (thanks to Song), you’re in business.

Finding and resolving a Song is the other main hurdle, probably a bigger one. In my deck you could instead play Titania as early as T2 and feel optimistic against many decks. Here you solve the problem more elegantly with cantrips. I think you’re one obscure card or new printing away from increasing the consistency of landing a Song, which would rocket the deck to greater competitiveness.

Any place for Jeweled Amulet? It can lay the groundwork for a quick Song, and like all free spells it’s never bad once you have Song.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise

Not your version, but I’ve dabbled with Song in my Orcish Lumberjack / Titania deck (because I’d rather put broken cards in a bad deck than build a broken deck, I suppose). I had the same observation that once you go off, you’re limited on mana, never cards. I used Lotus Cobras with fetches as a way to get mana; one Cobra is 0cc if you follow it with a fetch, and if you have more than one Cobra or if one Cobra sees more than one land drop (thanks to Song), you’re in business.

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That sounds fun! Especially in a deck without a bunch of 0cc artifacts, mana must be the bottleneck and ritual effects/Cobra must be great.

Finding both Song and enough mana is tricky. 4 mana is not a small feat against a blue tempo deck. But it is one mana less than Ad Nauseam and can be cast at any life total, so those are significant advantages.

I will try Riddlesmith as an alternate engine before Amulet. He might already be that last card needed for consistency. After testing the other build, I saw how powerful Riddlesmith was and how valuable it was to have a cheaper engine. I can probably squeeze it into my own build, cutting Preordains. Then I can add Emry and/or Mishra's Bauble, without needing the higher-risk stuff like Narset+Echo, Entomb, or all nonbasics.

I'm going to test something like this


//Artifacts: 20
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
2 Chrome Mox
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Defense Grid

//Creatures: 7
4 Riddlesmith
3 Emry, Lurker of the Loch

//Enchantments: 4
4 Song of Creation

//Spells: 13
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Burning Wish

//Lands: 16
3 Prismatic Vista
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga

//Sideboard: 15
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Echo of Eons
1 Reverent Silence
1 Pulverize
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Burning Wish
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Brazen Borrower
1 Abrade


I'm testing Bontu over Pyroclasm/Firespout/Toxic Deluge because I've already had a few cases where I had Wish + LED but had no outs to creatures on board because either:
-not enough Storm for lethal Tendrils
-Empty tokens wouldn't save me (evasion or burn)
-just 3 mana, not enough for Empty/Tendrils
-Firespout wouldn't kill everything off RRR or GGG (LED mana)
-Pyroclasm wouldn't kill everything
-Deluge life loss not manageable (too low, or burn risk)

Bontu seems like a more reliable "don't die" button for 3 mana, and the tempo cost is mitigated by artifact mana.