[Deck] ShitList Long (SHLong)

Let me start out by saying that over the last few months I've been trying to get a consistant/resiliant Tendrils of Agony list together. I've tried everything from Nausea, Iggy Pop, Sunrise Eggs, Draw 4 (Uno as somepeople called it.), Death Long, Burning Long, ect... None of these have been enough for me. But each deck had something I liked, I won't list each thing I liked about the decks but the one that stood out was Draw 4. Culling the weak just made me want to bust the card in half. I tried creatures like ornithopter and shield sphere, but they just pissed me off mid combo doing nothing. They were about as useful as Vacon's posts to be perfectly honest. Then I was randomly ripping off some kid in a trade and saw Priest of gix. This card I had forgetten about, but with Helm of Awakening it seems better than ornithopter being another ritual effect. After 5 months of testing I've come up with this I'm not saying it's the most broken thing to ever happen to Legacy/1.5 but it's very good. The deck's fundamental turn is turn 2.5, which is very fast for combo. I will say this deck is very hard to play, not as an excuse to anything but if you're unskilled when it comes to combo, click the back button. This deck resembles the best combo deck in Type 1, Grim long. Now onto the deck list.

ShitList Long V. 1.0
Updated 8/11/06

// Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
2 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [OD] Cabal Pit

// Creatures
4 [US] Priest of Gix
3 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [PS] Diabolic Intent
3 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
4 [B] Dark Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [VI] Helm of Awakening
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [MR] Second Sunrise
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
2 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [OD] Recoup
1 [UL] Snap

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [OD] Recoup
SB: 1 [OD] Firebolt
SB: 1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [CHK] Cleanfall
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 4 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives


Card Choices

Mana Base

City of Brass- Taps for all 5 colors. It's draw back is hardly ever relevant.
Gemstone Mine-Taps for all 5 colors. Can comeback with second Sunrise to double the fun.
Cabal Pit- Kills mage, but only taps for B which can be an issue.

Fast Mana

Dark Ritual- Does this really need explaining? BBB for B. Sounds like a deal.
Cabal Ritual- Get's around chalice for 1, which is nice. Once in a grand while it produces BBBBB I heard.
Culling The Weak- This card helps fuel the deck, Sacing a Mage or Priest for Sunrise while adding BBBB for B, why not?
Lion's Eye Diamond- 0cc neutered Black Lotus, why not? Argueably best card in legacy.
Lotus Petal- 0cc, +1 storm, Add's a mana of ANY color. True story.
Chrome Mox- 0cc, card disadvantage, add's a mana I guess...

Creatures

Trinket Mage- ugh... It's 3cc kinda suck's but with Helm out it's more reasonable and it demonic's LED, Mox, Lotus petal, Chrome sphere.
Priest of Gix- It's a free dude, with helm it's a Cabal ritual. Sac's to Diabolic intent, Culling the Weak, or Cabal therapy.

Tutors

Burning Wish- Horendously broken card...
Infernal Tutor- Demonic for 1.5, ok... I guess I'll take what I can get.
Diabolic Intent-Demonic while Sacing a dude, Wait? No hellbent. Ok.

Other "Stuff"

Tendrils of Agony- Remember it GAINS life. I'm "that guy" who lost to his own Tendrils... Fuckin' Mindslaver.
Ill-Gotten Gains- Get's cards back, the deck isn't based around it. No need for leyline.
Helm Of Awakening- Makes cards cost less, Makes my cards better. Alright.
Chromatic Sphere- Fix's your mana issues, cantrips, sure.
Second Sunrise- I like to pretend this card is yawgmoth's will... Has great synergy with the whole deck.
Cabal Therapy- Rip's out force of will, comes back for second's if need be. Has synergy with Sunrise, and Ill-Gotten Gains.
Recoup- Has synergy with second sunrise, it's a 2 for 1.
Snap-Effectively deals with Meddling mage while adding mana, you can also always target you're own men.

Sideboard

Tendrils of Agony- Look up.
Infernal Tutor-Look up.
Ill-Gotten Gains-Look up.
Recoup- Helps against control, Snyergy with LED 2 for 1.
Firebolt- If you manage to fizzel it can kill them, kills mage.
Cruel Bargain- Draws 4.
Shattering Spree- Kills pesky artifacts, can't think of too many at the moment.
Cleanfall- Kills enchantments, why have a SB that can't deal with EVERYTHING?
Diminishing Returns- Draw 7, I tend to try and not use this. It's an OH! SHIT! handle.
Defense Grid- Boarded against Control and Solidarity.
Engineered Explosives- Mage can tutor it, kills mage and ton's of other cards.

Cards that didn't make the cut

Land Grant and his nasty green friends- Forests only can tap for so many colors.
Forbidden Orchard- I just prefer City of brass. If you can justify this go ahead run it.
Spoils of the vault- I'm no gambler. I hate losing to bad luck also.
Tainted Pact- Read above.
Intuition- I hate this card, end of story.
Night's Whisper- Only if you got to choose what two cards you draw...
Chain of Vapor/Echoing truth- Makes comboing inconsistant and keepable hands iffy.
Duress- Therapy is just better in this deck.
Brainstorm- I love this card but I just can't justify running it.
Shield Sphere and friends- They don't do anything.
Auriok Salvagers- Alternate win? Makes swords relevant.
Eternal Witness- GG in casting cost was in a few lists, I had 2 Sunrises though to justify her.

Match-ups

Angel Stax(5-3) Hard to believe, I know but this is no Dirt story. I would either attempt to go off turn 1-2 fizzel or not and finish him off with small beaters or He'd mull into chalice 0 and chalice 1 and I played gix/mage and beat until he was within range of a 10-12 point tendrils. Chalice 0 or Chalice 1 is not death for this deck, sorry. Trinisphere however.

Threshold (Ugw) (3-3) This is against threshold with MD mages, You can wait to go off in this match-up by saving up therapy's or until your clock is up. Or you can have huge nuts and go for the 1-2 which isn't always a bad choice. Red threshold is much easyier.

Solidarity(6-4) The key is too go off when they have 2 lands or before that. Because at worse when they have 2 lands they could have remand and force. You can shrug off remand. Force is annoying but can be played around.

Goblins(4-2) You race. Not too much to say, The two games I lost he had nut starts and all I had was ritual effects.

Deadguy/Red Death (2-6) Horrible their disruption is just too much sometimes if the game is dragged out and they dont have a solid clock, don't scoop. You can recover with Ill-gotten Gains.

Rifter (7-1) You're a combo deck, all they have is creature removal. Although the one game I lost was to a Chant in responce to Burning wish.

Affinnity(5-5) Disiple, and cabal therapy are annoying to work around, thier clock is just as fast as you with disruption. An annoying match-up, winnable though.

Uber Maddenss(4-0) Their clock is extremely fast, but you're always a turn faster. Side out therapies for explosives, since therapy is about as good as an island of walk-walk.

5/3(2-5) Horrible match-up their clock and fast lock peices leave you near hopeless. If they didn't have a clock you'd be fine, but the two combined leave this a horrible match-up.

Burning Tog(4-2) IF they stall you out into a cranial on B.Wish it's an extremely hard uphill battle. That's how I lost the two games I did, they run 11 counterspells so don't wait all day.

Zoo/Random Aggro Generally in your favor, not much testing here a few games. I won them all. Random aggro with black had 4 duress 4 therapy which was annoying but I still pulled it out.

I liked how this deck runs a low amount of lands so it doesnt draw into any dead cards like Solidarity. I think you should run 1 Maindecked Cruel Bargain to be tutored for because card Draw does keep you from fizzling.

what % of the time do you go off turn one?

Do wastelands hurt badly?

Have you considered including some artifacts in your board that trinket makge can grab (engineered explosives takes out chalices/mages...)

How good have helm of awakening's been for you? It seems like alot of your deck can cant use them and your not running any eggs.

Could you try Thunderscape Familiar or Stormscape Familiar in its place? It helps almost as many spells as helm without helping your opponent and it can sac to all of your outlets.

Ill give this deck a try... I<3combo...

Did you ever consider running any number of Meditates in the mainboard? Meditate absolutely rocks in Nausea and I was thinking you might want to think about running them or at least one to tutor for.

Also has Priest of Gix ever been a liability for the deck considering that its a card that does nothing on its own except upping the storm count?

Good luck with your deck though. It looks pretty cool.

Except, even with one Helm, priest generates mana, so that would be his relevance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by noobslayer

Except, even with one Helm, priest generates mana, so that would be his relevance.

---

Except you can't always have a Helm in play or a Cabal Therapy, so sometimes he would be a bad draw. Just wondering how big of a setback that can be.

Priest also has the ability to turn colorless mana into black mana. He also ups the storm for free. He also beats for 2. I don't see the issue here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cooldude254

what % of the time do you go off turn one?

Do wastelands hurt badly?

Have you considered including some artifacts in your board that trinket makge can grab (engineered explosives takes out chalices/mages...)

How good have helm of awakening's been for you? It seems like alot of your deck can cant use them and your not running any eggs.

Could you try Thunderscape Familiar or Stormscape Familiar in its place? It helps almost as many spells as helm without helping your opponent and it can sac to all of your outlets.

Ill give this deck a try... I<3combo...

---

1.) No, Most of the time you only need 1 mana source to go off. Artifact mana will do.
2.) I have given thought to artifacts, but not to engineered explosives. That's a great Idea.
3.) Helm of awakening is a nessessary evil with this deck. The deck doesn't rely on it, but its nice to draw.
4.) Familiars are nice but fragile. Also leaves you open to creature removal, which this deck doesn't want. Combo that loses to creature removal = bad.
5.) Priest acts as a psuedo ritual with one or two helms out 1 helm unthresh cabal ritual, 2 helms a dark ritual.
6.) Meditate an other draw spells, I could see 1 going into the MD as a tutor target but this is tutor based long, not draw 4. The weakness of draw 4 was it's random factor of drawing shit off meditates and bargains. When you could just get I'll-Gotten Gains and win sometimes.

I think creauture removal wont matter much on familiar when you have so many outlets to sac him too. (Decks that waste time to deal with your 1/1 instead of droping threats will lose to you anyway)--Plus he owns a first turn lackey :)... It seems like trinket mage is pretty slow in this deck and you seem unsatisfied with it. Mabey you could try familiar in its place?

With the new errata... Gix works under second sunrised... woot...

Quote:

---

4.) Familiars are nice but fragile. Also leaves you open to creature removal, which this deck doesn't want. Combo that loses to creature removal = bad.

---

Just to note, you did just mention:

Quote:

---

The deck doesn't rely on it, but its nice to draw.

---

Even if the creature is killed, this deck should still be able to combo off smoothly. You also act as if no artifact removal is present either. Most likely not game 1, but every deck in the format sans Solidarity has some form of artifact removal. If you aren't able to go off because of a destroyed Familiar(or shit, helm also applies in this case too), then you were probably trying to go off too soon. The fact that Familiar doesn't help your opponent is huge though. Helm is honestly crap.

But if you want a decent option for cost reducer, why not Jet Medallion? The only spells it doesn't it doesn't affect are Trinket Mage, Second Sunrise, and Burning Wish. Wish isn't that big of a deal, and Mage gets sacrificed to Culling of the Weak, so that basically justifies it. Second Sunrise will already generate enough mana to make that extra colorless mana worthwhile.

How much of a disadvantage would it be to use Death Wish and rebuild the SB a little bit? Its 3 mana which is probably an issue but if your going off turns 1-3 then life shouldnt be. A sideboarded trick might take this deck over the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diablos

Just to note, you did just mention:

Even if the creature is killed, this deck should still be able to combo off smoothly. You also act as if no artifact removal is present either. Most likely not game 1, but every deck in the format sans Solidarity has some form of artifact removal. If you aren't able to go off because of a destroyed Familiar(or shit, helm also applies in this case too), then you were probably trying to go off too soon. The fact that Familiar doesn't help your opponent is huge though. Helm is honestly crap.

But if you want a decent option for cost reducer, why not Jet Medallion? The only spells it doesn't it doesn't affect are Trinket Mage, Second Sunrise, and Burning Wish. Wish isn't that big of a deal, and Mage gets sacrificed to Culling of the Weak, so that basically justifies it. Second Sunrise will already generate enough mana to make that extra colorless Mana worthwhile.

---

If you waste mana casting familiar or helm, to have it destroyed early game it'll most likely make you lose. Creature removal is relevant because you only have 3 instant creature sacrifice outlet's, so thier removal will hurt if you play familiar. Cabal therapy if it flashedback as an instant, ok.
I was running 1 DeathWish over the 4th BurningWish but I hated opening handing it's really only good if you tutor for it. As for Rebuild all you'll be bouncing is Helm and Chrome mox = mana lost, not mana gained.
@Priest- I was also happy about that when I built this deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wastedlife

If you waste mana casting familiar or helm, to have it destroyed early game it'll most likely make you lose. Creature removal is relevant because you only have 3 instant creature sacrifice outlet's, so thier removal will hurt if you play familiar. Cabal therapy if it flashedback as an instant, ok.

---

So do you plan on playing helm in the midst of comboing off? That would make you need something like ritual => Helm => ritual to do anything, a net loss of 3 cards, and 4 mana in your pool. I would really like a Night's Whisper in that situation, especially since your seven land count keeps your deck as close to "all business" as possible. Also, even though all of your lands are rainbows, didn't you say you expect very few lands while going off? All your rituals produce black, which leaves Petal or Sphere as the only effective ways (barring extra lands) of casting Trinket Mage. Perhaps the mage could be cut in favour if a black tutor that functioned the same under helm. Last I heard, we could still play four Grim Tutor in this format. Spoils of the Vault is also an open option from you, but that makes me think of Meandeck Tendrils, which was not a fun deck to play at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wastedlife

Let me start out by saying that over the last few months I've been trying to get a consistant/resiliant Tendrils of Agony list together. I've tried everything from Nausea, Iggy Pop, Sunrise Eggs, Draw 4 (Uno as somepeople called it.), Death Long, Burning Long, ect... None of these have been enough for me. But each deck had something I liked, I won't list each thing I liked about the decks but the one that stood out was Draw 4. Culling the weak just made me want to bust the card in half. I tried creatures like ornithopter and shield sphere, but they just pissed me off mid combo doing nothing. They were about as useful as Vacon's posts to be perfectly honest. Then I was randomly ripping off some kid in a trade and saw Priest of gix. This card I had forgetten about, but with Helm of Awakening it seems better than ornithopter being another ritual effect. After 5 months of testing I've come up with this I'm not saying it's the most broken thing to ever happen to Legacy/1.5 but it's very good. The deck's fundamental turn is turn 2.5, which is very fast for combo. I will say this deck is very hard to play, not as an excuse to anything but if you're unskilled when it comes to combo, click the back button. This deck resembles the best combo deck in Type 1, Grim long. Now onto the deck list.

ShitList Long V. 1.0
// Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
3 [WL] Gemstone Mine

// Creatures
4 [US] Priest of Gix
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [PS] Diabolic Intent
3 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
4 [B] Dark Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [VI] Helm of Awakening
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [MR] Second Sunrise
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [B] Regrowth
SB: 1 [OD] Recoup
SB: 1 [OD] Firebolt
SB: 1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [CHK] Cleanfall
SB: 1 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 4 [UL] Defense Grid

Card Choices

Mana Base

City of Brass- Taps for all 5 colors. It's draw back is hardly ever relevant.
Gemstone Mine-Taps for all 5 colors. Can comeback with second Sunrise to double the fun.

Fast Mana

Dark Ritual- Does this really need explaining? BBB for B. Sounds like a deal.
Cabal Ritual- Get's around chalice for 1, which is nice. Once in a grand while it produces BBBBB I heard.
Culling The Weak- This card helps fuel the deck, Sacing a Mage or Priest for Sunrise while adding BBBB for B, why not?
Lion's Eye Diamond- 0cc neutered Black Lotus, why not? Argueably best card in legacy.
Lotus Petal- 0cc, +1 storm, Add's a mana of ANY color. True story.
Chrome Mox- 0cc, card disadvantage, add's a mana I guess...

Creatures

Trinket Mage- ugh... It's 3cc kinda suck's but with Helm out it's more reasonable and it demonic's LED, Mox, Lotus petal, Chrome sphere.
Priest of Gix- It's a free dude, with helm it's a Cabal ritual. Sac's to Diabolic intent, Culling the Weak, or Cabal therapy.

Tutors

Burning Wish- Horendously broken card...
Infernal Tutor- Demonic for 1.5, ok... I guess I'll take what I can get.
Diabolic Intent-Demonic while Sacing a dude, Wait? No hellbent. Ok.

Other "Stuff"

Tendrils of Agony- Remember it GAINS life. I'm "that guy" who lost to his own Tendrils... Fuckin' Mindslaver.
Ill-Gotten Gains- Get's cards back, the deck isn't based around it. No need for leyline.
Helm Of Awakening- Makes cards cost less, Makes my cards better. Alright.
Chromatic Sphere- Fix's your mana issues, cantrips, sure.
Second Sunrise- I like to pretend this card is yawgmoth's will... Has great synergy with the whole deck.
Cabal Therapy- Rip's out force of will, comes back for second's if need be. Has synergy with Sunrise, and Ill-Gotten Gains.

Sideboard

Tendrils of Agony- Look up.
Infernal Tutor-Look up.
Ill-Gotten Gains-Look up.
Regrowth- Returns anything if need be, most easily cut SB card.
Recoup- Helps against control, Snyergy with LED 2 for 1.
Firebolt- If you manage to fizzel it can kill them, kills mage.
Cruel Bargain- Draws 4.
Shattering Spree- Kills pesky artifacts, can't think of too many at the moment.
Cleanfall- Kills enchantments, why have a SB that can't deal with EVERYTHING?
Pyroclasm- Kills multiple mages/good against goblins
Diminishing Returns- Draw 7, I tend to try and not use this. It's an OH! SHIT! handle.
Defense Grid- Boarded against Control and Solidarity.

Cards that didn't make the cut

Land Grant and his nasty green friends- Forests only can tap for so many colors.
Forbidden Orchard- I just prefer City of brass. If you can justify this go ahead run it.
Cabal Pit- Kills mage, but only taps for B which can be an issue.
Spoils of the vault- I'm no gambler. I hate losing to bad luck also.
Tainted Pact- Read above.
Intuition- I hate this card, end of story.
Night's Whisper- Only if you got to choose what two cards you draw...
Chain of Vapor/Echoing truth- Makes comboing inconsistant and keepable hands iffy.
Duress- Therapy is just better in this deck.
Brainstorm- I love this card but I just can't justify running it.
Shield Sphere and friends- They don't do anything.
Auriok Salvagers- Alternate win? Makes swords relevant.
Eternal Witness- GG in casting cost was in a few lists, I had 2 Sunrises though to justify her.

Match-ups

Angel Stax(5-3) Hard to believe, I know but this is no Dirt story. I would either attempt to go off turn 1-2 fizzel or not and finish him off with small beaters or He'd mull into chalice 0 and chalice 1 and I played gix/mage and beat until he was within range of a 10-12 point tendrils. Chalice 0 or Chalice 1 is not death for this deck, sorry. Trinisphere however.

Threshold (Ugw) (3-3) This is against threshold with MD mages, You can wait to go off in this match-up by saving up therapy's or until your clock is up. Or you can have huge nuts and go for the 1-2 which isn't always a bad choice. Red threshold is much easyier.

Solidarity(6-4) The key is too go off when they have 2 lands or before that. Because at worse when they have 2 lands they could have remand and force. You can shrug off remand. Force is annoying but can be played around.

Goblins(4-2) You race. Not too much to say, The two games I lost he had nut starts and all I had was ritual effects.

Deadguy/Red Death (2-6) Horrible their disruption is just too much sometimes if the game is dragged out and they dont have a solid clock, don't scoop. You can recover with Ill-gotten Gains.

Rifter (7-1) You're a combo deck, all they have is creature removal. Although the one game I lost was to a Chant in responce to Burning wish.

Affinnity(5-5) Disiple, and cabal therapy are annoying to work around, thier clock is just as fast as you with disruption. An annoying match-up, winnable though.

Zoo/Random Aggro Generally in your favor not much testing here a few games, I won them all. Random aggro with black had 4 duress 4 therapy which was annoying but I still pulled it out.

---

I love playing combo decks and the list looks very solid and interesting. I'm just reluctant to say that I like "Shlong". :wink:

On another note, have you considered Shield Sphere? It ups the storm count, provides a sac outlet and can even be an early turn blocker. It also has great synergy with Trinket Mage. Just something to consider.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dre4ms

So do you plan on playing helm in the midst of comboing off? That would make you need something like ritual => Helm => ritual to do anything, a net loss of 3 cards, and 4 mana in your pool. I would really like a Night's Whisper in that situation, especially since your seven land count keeps your deck as close to "all business" as possible. Also, even though all of your lands are rainbows, didn't you say you expect very few lands while going off? All your rituals produce black, which leaves Petal or Sphere as the only effective ways (barring extra lands) of casting Trinket Mage. Perhaps the mage could be cut in favour if a black tutor that functioned the same under helm. Last I heard, we could still play four Grim Tutor in this format. Spoils of the Vault is also an open option from you, but that makes me think of Meandeck Tendrils, which was not a fun deck to play at all.

---

The thing about whisper is that, you don't ever draw what you need. Helm is usually played the turn before or ritual, helm, ect... The thing is this deck has enough tutors to build up the storm count without draw spells. Because draw spells have a random factor, why be random when you can be consistant? The deck has Petal,Sphere,LED and Sunrise occassionally to add colored mana. I can't count how many times I've brought back gemstone off a sunrise. Grim Tutor is 120$ and it sucks without helm, you might as well play Death Wish with Burning Wish. I completely agree with you spoils of the vault is horrible, when playing nausea at times I'd want to throw it because of spoils. But I'm not one of those guys so...

@ Cavius The Great- C'mon who doesn't like SHLong? Shield sphere if it added a colorless mana, yes. But if you read the first post it says why it wasn't included. Doesn't do anything but add 1 storm count.

I've made a few changes... To make second sunrise better with the deck I added 1 recoup. So that you can cast it off LED mana, instead of waiting until turn 3.
My Changes
-1 Culling the weak
+1 recoup

My Current Sideboard
// Sideboard
Tendrils of Agony
Infernal Tutor
Ill-Gotten Gains
Recoup
Firebolt
Cruel Bargain
Shattering Spree
Cleanfall
Pyroclasm
Diminishing Returns
4 Defense Grid
2 Engineered Explosives

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wastedlife

I've made a few changes... To make second sunrise better with the deck I added 1 recoup. So that you can cast it off LED mana, instead of waiting until turn 3.

---

This won't work; Second Sunrise is an instant and Recoup can only target sorceries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phantom Ogre

This won't work; Second Sunrise is an instant and Recoup can only target sorceries.

---

Heh, that's not what I was implying. I was saying that you can tutor up sunrise in response crack LED, discard recoup, cast sunrise get everything back. But you have no way to get tendrils if thier's no recoup. Unless you mage up chrome sphere and draw like a god. It's easy if you tutor or Bwish the recoup earlyier on while comboing also. I've always been aware that sunrise is an instant and recoup can onyl target sorceries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wastedlife

Heh, that's not what I was implying. I was saying that you can tutor up sunrise in response crack LED, discard recoup, cast sunrise get everything back. But you have no way to get tendrils if thier's no recoup. Unless you mage up chrome sphere and draw like a god. It's easy if you tutor or Bwish the recoup earlyier on while comboing also. I've always been aware that sunrise is an instant and recoup can onyl target sorceries.

---

My apologies; the meaning of your comment was somewhat unclear to me. Thanks for elaborating on it.

I just played WastedLife on MWS (I was playing &#220;bermadness), and he beat me 4-0 without much difficulties. Once I had turn 1 Roar of the Wurm and Basking Rootwalla on the table, and he still managed to go off during his third turn easily.

Let me just tell you that this deck is amazing... It is really consistant and brutally fast. I hear that he beat Di on turn 1 three times in a row. :). It seems to be quite complicated but powerful. I will definitely throw it together and do some testing after having seen this deck in action...

Wouldn't you expect this to crush an aggro deck like madness, though?

And aren't there plenty of Tendrils decks that can win on turn three? Why were you so surprised at these results?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MattH

Wouldn't you expect this to crush an aggro deck like madness, though?

And aren't there plenty of Tendrils decks that can win on turn three? Why were you so surprised at these results?

---

Well, I wasn't very surprised, but I could see that this is a really consistant and fast deck. He went off on a low life count and still won easily. Nausea could have killed itself with Spoils of the Vault at this point, for instance.

I thought it was amazing that he won turn 1 three times in a row, though... this is something special for deck as consistant as this. I know IGGy Pop or Nausea can be similar fast, but people have been tuning these decks for months... this deck here is just the first attempt (also it seems to be pretty optimal). I think it has some huge potential... that's what I wanted to say with my first post. :)

How do you feel about Mishra and Urza's Bauble? Free storm count and deck thinning. Ive never played a 42 card storm combo deck. Maybe it would let you drop your land count. 7 lands sucks, Did you actually try out Land Grant in your build or no?

Besides not playing Spoils of the Vault how does this deck play out differently than Nausea? The problem I have is that these decks both play Helm of Awakening. The reason I started playing Iggy Pop over Nausea was because I hated giving my opponent the helm. You dont even have the City of Traitors for a turn one Helm. Burning a Lotus Petal to play the helm sucks.

How do you feel about Wild Cantor? Belcher decks are finding him successfull.

Love the deck, but two things I have noticed.

First, Trinket Mage sucks hardcore without a Helm. Culling the Weak sucks hardcore without a Mage or Gix, both of which suck muchly without a Helm (The priest not as much as you can use it too up storm and with fun stuff for Second Sunrise). Relying on Helm when you only get it hald of your games is not so great. The deck can definatley win without the Helm, but drawing Cullings/Mages/Priests makes it much harder. Having even one of those in hand without a Helm is essentially like taking a Mulligan.

That said, my nooby, terrible combo-playing self, loves the deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

How do you feel about Mishra and Urza's Bauble? Free storm count and deck thinning. Ive never played a 42 card storm combo deck. Maybe it would let you drop your land count. 7 lands sucks, Did you actually try out Land Grant in your build or no?

---

The Baubles would definately be bad cards to include. You only want to play them the turn that you kill your opponent, and they don't let you draw the card until the next turn.

Also 7 lands isn't that bad. Nausea runs 8 lands(4 City of Traitors, Bayou, Taiga, Tropical Island, and Wooded Foothills) and 4 Land Grant without a real problem.

@ Baubles- Don't cantrip that turn for free which will make this deck inconsistant. Consistancy is everything in a combo deck.
@Nausea- This deck isn't nausea sorry, this deck is way more versatile and has alot more options. Yes, they both win with tendrils so they do play out the same.
@7 lands and land grant- This deck need's it's lands to tap for any color and land grant doesn't do that. I've played land grant in different combo decks and in this one it just hurts too much when you're lands don't tap for the colors they need. You have enough fast mana to justify 7 lands if you disagree add a land but I've been happy with 7.
@Wild Cantor- I ran him in my list that ran 4 second sunrise, but without it he basically is uncastable when comboing and only bumps the storm count 1.
@Trinket Mage and Priest- If you are dissatisfied with them feel free to express that, but I've been nothing but happy with them. Those cards win games, often that LED you mage'd for will be used 2 maybe 3 times. The core of the deck has synergy with both of these cards the 8 sac outlets and sunrise. They are worth the mana you invest into them, but you have to know when to cast them or when to combo. Trinket mage being so versatile fixing mana, adding mana, drawing cards. I love his slot I'd never run a 0cc creature instead of him
@Helm of Awakening- It's a nesesary evil in my opinion, if you dislike it try jet medallion but knowing when to cast it determines how well you'll do. Don't cast it because you can cast it when you need to.
@Sacrificing outlets- Yes, they do suck without creatures I won't lie, but that's why mage and priest are in the deck. Not to mention they help the deck's consistancy and snyergy.

I would like to thank the people who have tested this deck because it it truely broken in the hands of a skilled player. It has so many options and ways to win, their's endless possibilities and ways to achieve the same goal which differs in testing results. Which is why people have different opinions.

A few things, how does Trinket Mage draw "cards". You mean a card off Chromatic Sphere? The problem I have with Trinket Mage is that fetching a Lion's Eye Diamond with it is great, but I rarely, if ever, have enough mana to play a Tutor/Wish. I love it off a Helm, but if you have a LED, or dont have a Helm, its really pretty terrible. Fetching a Lotus Petal with it is terrible as your only recouping one mana, where you need the two for the Tutors.... I wish I could cut it, but it does find LED which is great, and its more Culling the Weak/Diabolic Intent food. I am only running 3 of them now (Stil a full 4 Priests) and I like it quite a bit better.

This is sort of a How-to for people who have not played this deck before.

1.Ways to Gain Mana

Net 1 mana- 7 Possibilities
- Lotus Petal
- Infernal Tutor-> Lions-eye Diamond
- Cabal Ritual (no thresh)
- Chrome Mox
- Infernal Tutor -> Cabal Ritual (with threshhold)
- Priest of Gix with a Helm of Awakening down
- Trinket Mage-> Culling of the Weak

Net 2 Mana- 2 Possiblities

-Dark Ritual
-Trinket Mage + Helm of Awakening down-> Culling of the Weak

Net 3 Mana

-Priest of Gix-> Culling of the Weak
-Lions-eye Diamond
-Cabal Ritual with Threshold

2. Deck List

a. 13 Tutors

- 4 Trinket Mage
- 4 Burning Wish
- 3 Infernal Tutor
- 2 Diabolic Intent

b. 7 Card Draw

- 3 Chromatic Sphere
- 4 Burning Wish-> Cruel Bargain/Diminishing Returns

c. 10 Tendrils

- 2 Diabolic Intent
- 4 Burning Wish
- 3 Infernal Tutor
- 1 MD Tendrils of Agony

3. Top Cards to Tutor For-

a. Ill-Gotten Gains- Used to Recur LED, Ritual effect/ LED #2, and Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor

b. Second Sunrise- Found when you Infernal Tutor/ Diabolic Intent with a Recoup in the 'yard.


4. Notes on Playing the Deck

The interaction between the tutors and Lions-eye Diamond is crucial to the deck functioning properly.

FoW is NOT game over when you are trying to combo, but it is MUCH scarier than duress.

When playing against a control deck try to power through the counters by keeping tutor heavy hands that may be slightly lacking in mana.

Actively attempt to find the shortest and most reliable path to victory.
- This means that you should not try to go for overkill but also don't try to force a turn 1/2 combo on limited resources.

5. How Would You Play This Hand-

LED
Dark Ritual
Gemstone Mine
Duress
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Lotus Petal

I will post the answer that combo's off turn 1 later on.
(P.S. it is not supposed to be a tricky, but instead it is supposed to work on making the most logical decisions)

6. Goldfish Results

Turn 1 - 5 games (10%)
Turn 2- 17 games ( 34%)
turn 3 - 24 Games (48%)
turn 4 or fizzle- 4 Games (8%)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JesterBoY

5. How Would You Play This Hand-

LED
Dark Ritual
Gemstone Mine
Duress
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Lotus Petal

---

Play Lotus Petal
Play Gemstone Mine
Sac Lotus Petal for B
Play Dark Ritual (BBB floating)
Play Infernal Tutor for LED#2 (B floating)
Play LED
Play LED
Tap Gemstone Mine for R
Play Buring Wish Sacing LED's for BBBBBB
Get Ill-Gotten Gains
Play Gains for LED, Petal, and Infernal (floating BB)
Play LED
Play Petal
Play Infernal sacing LED for BBB
Get Tendrils
Sac Petal and play Tendrils for 22

There may be a way to Duress in there by infernal tutoring for something else, but I didn't think of it immediately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saxking93

There may be a way to Duress in there by infernal tutoring for something else, but I didn't think of it immediately.

---

I'm going to assume that Duress is actually Cabal Therapy. Anyway, there are ways to play it, but those lines of play result in either a turn 2 kill in the manner that you chose to play the hand or a possible turn 1 kill that doesn't use Infernal Tutor and requires you to wish for Diminishing Returns. Either way, you're probably going to lose if the opponent has a FoW and a blue card, so you may as well save time, go off first turn with Ill-Gotten Gains and be guaranteed the kill barring disruption from the opponent.

Hi

I've tested your deck and mixed it a little with Nausea( what happend to that thread by the way), but you claim in testing that this deck goes even against UGw *****, but I could only win one of ten games due to a T1 kill. They simply put the first Mage one Buring Wish and the Second on Tendrils of Agony. How do you play this matchup?

I really don't like the lack of Spoils. The cheap tutor effect makes your deck infinitely more consistant and faster.

Quote:

---

I've tested your deck and mixed it a little with Nausea( what happend to that thread by the way), but you claim in testing that this deck goes even against UGw *****, but I could only win one of ten games due to a T1 kill. They simply put the first Mage one Buring Wish and the Second on Tendrils of Agony. How do you play this matchup?

---

Well Nausea beats UGW at a pretty even score by winning withing turns 1-2. I don't see this deck doing that very easily at a consistant rate, but I haven't tested it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evil Roopey

I really don't like the lack of Spoils. The cheap tutor effect makes your deck infinitely more consistant and faster.



Well Nausea beats UGW at a pretty even score by winning withing turns 1-2. I don't see this deck doing that very easily at a consistant rate, but I haven't tested it.

---

This deck is just as consistant as nausea if not more, not relying on helm of awakening is huge. The lack of spoils was explained in the first post, if you wan't spoil's in the deck you'll have to rework the deck. Because running 1'ofs is no longer an option, and you'll end up relying on Burning Wish alot more. Roopey was right about threshold, you attempt to win quickly. If not you build up Cabal Therapies/Defense grid or wait and see if they tap out or tap enough mana to win.

Edit: Right now I'm testing 1 snap in place of the 4th trinketmage. I'm liking it, it deals with Meddling Mage, up's the storm count, adds mana. What doesn't it do? Bouncing a Priest or Trinket Mage is also very fun. I may up it to two.

Maybe it's just MWS, but I have yet to get this deck to goldfish. I always end up with lots of mana but no draw, and usually when I have a Burning Wish, I don't have R to cast it. Is there a primer out? Is it normal to have to mulligan aggressively? I've been trying to goldfish on turn three every game and it's not working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoojo

Maybe it's just MWS, but I have yet to get this deck to goldfish. I always end up with lots of mana but no draw, and usually when I have a Burning Wish, I don't have R to cast it. Is there a primer out? Is it normal to have to mulligan aggressively? I've been trying to goldfish on turn three every game and it's not working.

---

MWS shuffler sucks which is a known fact, no there is not a primer out. If people would like I could write one up. The best option is proxying the deck up, because mws blows. I do some testing on it, but in a game against stax on turn 8 I had 6 land in play out of the 7. Tell me that's not ridiculous. The deck has enough ways to get colored mana through LED, petal, land, and Chrome sphere to cast wish. Sometimes you may have to take the harder route and go through I'll gotten Gains but none the less you'll end up with it.
I've also decided that the snap over the 4th mage is going to stay, I love it.

EDIT: I'm testing Cabal pit over 1 gemstone mine again, I'm tired of having to go the long route into killing 2 mages. It makes you weaker and more likely to fizzel. I just hope it doesn't mess with the deck's color wheel/color consistancy. I do love casting Burning wish afterall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoojo

Maybe it's just MWS, but I have yet to get this deck to goldfish. I always end up with lots of mana but no draw, and usually when I have a Burning Wish, I don't have R to cast it. Is there a primer out? Is it normal to have to mulligan aggressively? I've been trying to goldfish on turn three every game and it's not working.

---

I've been having somewhat similar results to Hoojo here. I just can't seem to get the cards I need to win when I need them to win. It's probably my misplaying of the deck, but I've managed to fizzle out about 45% of the time.

I'd love to see a primer on this, with more on how to play it.