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All lights are dark in the Sun Tower
Good performance. I'm happy that this archetype is getting some attention.
Have you dismissed Wildfire? Why or why not?
Yes and no. I don't run enough red sources to reliably cast it around turns 3-5 when I want it the most. I would like to run it, but my manabase is really amazing right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinus
That makes sense. You are running more control cards, and less prison elements.
I consider Wildfire powerful enough to build a deck around, which does restrict the manabase and other cards you can run (my red stax reflects this). However I like your deck as well.
On the 100% Trix Matchup - How is this possible? Unless you drop a turn 2 Smokestack you can't really beat this deck with you're clock, and anyone playing against Stack WILL fetch basics. They have a far fater clock, and countermagic to back it up.
You play no basics, that must hurt against anything that even think Wasteland. Has this caused any game losses? Does Ensnaring Bridge really cut it? There have been too many games against Goblins where I end up with two cards in hand do to there mana disruption. Do you feel you really need 4 3Spheres? I for one would be in favor of one of these being another Smokestack.
Sun Tower forgot to pay its power bill.
I see. Thank you for clairifying those issues, and I hope I can have more imput in the deck as I test and see how it does. It looks pretty dec.
EDIT - Could you write a primer against different decks?
I should have gone 0-2 drop conceding to both of my opponents for playing a bad deck. All of my Gencon results are a result of me being a complete lucksack. Sorry for the inconvenience. Go back to playing Lands! or Angel Stax.
Looks pretty nice, I like it.
I know you said you dont want to put matchups, but could you post what you want to do against some decks?
Like: Against Threshold, I want to resolve X, then use Y to deal with Q. I want to win by doing Z.
Misguided strategy, looks like I didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe I should have dropped.
Well, I still haven't lost against Thres tonight while playing with it. Every single card in the deck is a must counter. If you thikn you can support GG, there's Hail Storm as an instant Pyroclasm, which will kill Gobbos. You just have to let them swing for lethel and kill their board.
All the cool kids are sideboarding Camels to carry power over the desert to Sun Tower. Guess that means you need a set of Desert now.
When you have Uba Mask/Silvan Library out and an empty hand, and also one of your four Ensnaring Bridges in play, you can't attack either, and you need to Ring your opponent out to win the game. This seems like a pretty weak win condition to me, unless you plan on saccing it to a Stack, which creates more problems.
I prefer 5/3, which has effective disruption but MUCH better early pressure and the ability to win the game before your opponent can find an answer, rather than relying on digging for prision peices.
You could also try Constant Mists, seeing as how you play 4 Crucibles, when they swing for the hills, and they can't get rid of it. Other cards could be (Rolling) Earthquake, Crawlspace, Elephant Grass, or Caltrops. Anyone else wish Silent Arbiter wasn't a creature?Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
100% against Rock? You must be kidding!
Seriously, how do you take care of Duress, Cabal Therapy, Putrefy, Pernicious Deed in game 1?
Game 2 you probably board in Chalice of the Void and Pithing Needle. Well, I'll be boarding in Cranial Extraction and Crime/Punishment and I still have some wishtargets to disrupt your gameplan.
StaX is a very good matchup for the Rock. Rock isn't a good matchup voor StaX. Please tell me how you win so easily. :/
Moved to N&D.
My best guess is that he only played them in one round, same with a few other decks. The deck needs more testing at this point, but the biggest reason to play it is it's near autowin vs. Thres and good game .v Solidarity, with a 50ish% Goblin/Random Aggro game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Van_R
You're right. I'm 0% vs the Rock. When I see rock I just scoop and thank my opponent for my beating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Van_R
It's true, I played 9 rounds with Insect Advantage, with game 2 of top 8 taking over an hour, and still got impatient with emidln's build of stax.
The deck is extremely solid against most other decks in the format due to the fact it can go turn 1 Trinisphere, and if it doesn't then it just wipes their board with clasm/quake after going turn 2 trinisphere. I noticed that most games will be won with a life total of less than 10, but I have to admit that it's not really a problem under a waste/smokestack/trini/bridge lock. Any and all of those are extremely possible with his draw engine of uba mask and sylvan library.
He did go x-2 in every legacy event he played in as far as i know.
This is true about Angel Stax as well. It takes a lot of experience to get a sense of how to play Stax properly. It's also one reason why Stax is not represented in most environments.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Honestly, that's a poor reason. :p Being a former Stax player myself(both in 1.5 and Vintage), I'd say playskill isn't nearly as big of a factor with this deck as people think it is. In Vintage that's a little different, but in Legacy, Stax can run on fucking autopilot. As long as you have half a brain and a small sense of the stack, you can win. I mean, there aren't really that many decisions you have to make considering the nature of the deck. If this was a Survival deck or Solidarity then playskill could be factored in, but decks like these don't make choices like that.
The biggest reason the deck isn't represented in most environments is because it has a great tendency to lose to random shit. Ask Mr. Nightmare about that and his time in Philly.
Btw, Sylvan Library and Uba Mask is the fucking tits. I'm now on a quest to make as many decks as possible with this engine.
Yup. I got smashed by SuiBlack and Elves.
Dibbs on this deck, Syracuse.
I think Angel Stax does have some difficult decisions in the early game. Stax has a bad matchup against random aggro that has a lot of permanents and some average utility, which is why it doesn't usually perform well - but people choosing not to play it (it being underrepresented, like I said) is also due to the different strategy required to understand the deck.
Mmmh I was just wondering if Covetous Dragon would be a possible or even a good choice. It would give you a nice and particularly fast kill option. If there is a softlock with say CoW and Wasties + 3sphere you could power out one and win the gane fast, so that you don't give your opponent the chance to recover.
In addition I would like to know (@Machinus) if you feel this version of Stax could mean sort of a breakthrough for Stax and could perform with a higher/better constancy than Angel Stax. After all it has a solution for probably the most serious problem, namely topdecking.
@emidln
Were there any other cards you considered when building this deck which now seem better than any in this deck? Were there cards that sort of disappointed you and that you would like to replace?
Bye UbaStax! Sun Tower was more fun...
I know the feeling too well also :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare
Ok, this may sound silly because it's just a minor change but have you thought about -1 Taiga +1 Wooded Foothills ?
With either Crucible or Library (without Mask) out it cannot be bad.
Yes, adding the draw elements of course gives the deck more strength in the late game, but Stax's biggest weakness is to board development in the early game. Angel Stax focuses on minimizing card disadvantage by making every spell useful in as many situations as possible (for example, only running three Trinispheres). That means it will have a more consistent game, and a higher synergy between cards that you draw, but a lower power level when the deck is functioning at full capacity. I believe this is the best design strategy if you assume you are going to encounter disruption elements.
Emidln notes that this deck can't lose to blue. I have found that Stax synergies in general have that strength, which is why I have focused so much on the aggro matchup with my deck development.
As far as viability, if this deck can perform as well as it did, I would strongly consider playing a newer version of my Wildfire Stax. It is a different deck, and I have already talked about it, but I think it takes advantage of some of the same metagame properties. I like Wildfire enough to sacrifice design freedoms to support it.
Ok, this might be slightly off topic but is here a thread anywhere that deals with "Wildfire Stax"? I'm eager to get to know more versions of Stax, since I quite like the decktype, but I couldn't find any.
Wow. I can't believe no one has ever thought of that before (or at least, that I hadn't heard of it). It was already a free Brainstorm every turn, but once you get the Mask it's a free Ancestral every turn. Plus, it forces people to play things the turn they draw them, which prevents people from holding countermagic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablos
On a completely unrelated note, since I'm currently working on Friggorid, I was wondering how Sylvan Library interacts with Dredge. If the replacement effect works the same as it does with the Mask, I have a few new ideas :wink:. Also, how does Mask interact with Dredge. Since they're both replacement effects I'm assuming the player can choose which one, but I'm not quite sure of the details. [/tangent]
Anyway, not much to contribute, just wanted to say how awesome this deck looks.
Hmm...one thing stands out to me when talking about the ensnaring bridge...grafted skull cap. You can replace the sylvans with it. I do understand that uba mask and sylvan is like an ancestral a turn but the cap gives you 2 cards a turn, as opposed to a choice of 1-3 but at a higher although with a brown CC.
From Saturday School on Wizards.com:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
In short, yes, you can replace Sylvan draws with dredge effects and not pay life. Note that this has been suggested and tried since the Dredge mechanic was spoiled.Quote:
Q:If I have a Sylvan Library in play and I choose to replace one or more of the draws with dredge, do I then pay 4 life for each card that I don't put back on top of my library? --Earl W.
A:If you draw any cards and use Sylvan Library, you'll have to put back or pay life. If you draw for the turn then dredge for the Sylvan and draw for the Sylvan, you'll have two cards you've drawn this turn-- put them back or pay. However, you could draw for the turn and dredge both the Sylvan draws and return or pay for only the one card. Or, if you have enough dredge in your graveyard and cards in your library, you could replace your regular draw and the Sylvan draws with three dredges and not have to pay anything.
As for its role in Friggorid, I'm not sure it's actually better in that deck than the available alternatives (Winds, etc.), because it's relatively slower.
In any case, this is off topic here, so feel free to continue this aspect of the discussion in the Friggorid thread.
Here is an older version of my Wildfire Stax deck. I can start a new thread if people are interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTreK
I think in this instance, having 1G by turn 2 isn't that much of a problem for the deck (I could be wrong, but it seems that way). The fact that Library comes out on turn 2 (or even 1) probably gives it the edge over Skullcap in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
I played your list while Granite Shard was in it. This list looks much better. I would consider Goblin Welder again. He really needs a home in Legacy Stax and since your not playing CotV maindeck I strongly suggest him. Recurring Tangle Wire will. win. the. game.
A+ for Mask and Lib.
On another stax note Ive been working on a blue stax list Ill try to have it up soon. I want to make sure I have something solid to work off of.
Not to seem like a newb. But could someone please explain the uba mask/ library interaction to me. That would help, thanks
@ GOLDFISH_OF_DOOM
At the beginning of your draw step Sylvan Library triggers and then, using Uba Mask's replacement effect, you replace all three draws (1 from your draw step, 2 from Library) and remove the top three cards of your library from the game. Because you have not drawn any cards this turn, in particular Sylvan Library doesn't detect any that you've drawn from it, so you mustn't pay any life. But, any of the three cards you don't play this turn are removed from the game for good (a feature, not a bug; hurts the opponent more than you, most often, because this deck was build for it).
So, there you go. A masterful card advantage engine.
I am a huge fan of that "combo". I once made an elvish/stax deck also featuring Abundance... That makes the combo even more crazy...
Anyway, I think your deck looks good, but I would play 2 md tabernacles, and maybe some kind of faster win-condition...
- meanee
My win condition was too slow. Withdrawing the deck. Play Lands!
I totally agree, your wincondition is good, hell not long ago Goblin Welder was the wincondition or Platinum Angel in monobrownstax, and from there just deck your opponent( because attacking wouldn't work due to bridge.) The only reason Vintage Staxx uses Titan is because they can play it turn 2/3 with workshop and Tinker.