[Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

ETA: I'm leaving the rest of the post alone, but I'm going to keep the most up-to-date list on the top of the first page.


4 Scrying Sheets
18 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Kor Haven

1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Wrath of God
1 Humility
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Sacred Mesa
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Orim's Chant
3 Abeyance
2 Grindstone
2 Painter's Servant

SB:
3 Ray of Distortion
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Karmic Justice
1 Sacred Ground
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Karakas
1 Genju of the Fields
1 Runed Halo


Previous ETA:

18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets

2x Grindstone
2x Painter's Servant
3x Eternal Dragon
1x Sacred Mesa

3x Enlightened Tutor
4x Sensei's Divining Top

3x Wrath of God
3x Runed Halo
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Moat

4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
2x Isochron Scepter

SB:
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
3x Ray of Distortion
2x Sacred Ground
2x Story Circle
1x Sacred Mesa
2x Decree of Justice
1x Rule of Law

Now return you to the original post.

[/ETA]

I actually build a metric fuckton of decks that never see the light of day. I'll proxy them up on MWS, maybe play a few games on MWS, then get bored and scrap them. Any number of things can inspire a deck. Sometimes it's actually cards, or any given one card I feel like playing at the moment. Sometimes the deck is actually top-down; say, for instance, that someone makes an account on the Source with a handle referencing a damnably catchy Bob Dylan song I hadn't even thought about in years. I might get said tune stuck in my head for a week, and decide that I'd like to build a deck with that name. Quinn's an eskimo, so obviously it needs to be a Snow deck.

Usually these decks get scrapped, but every one in a hundred actually turns out to actually be really fucking impressive. This is one of those.

18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets

Kill Conditions:
2x Eternal Dragon
2x Decree of Justice
3x Adarkar Valkyrie
1x Sacred Mesa

Creature Kill:
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Condemn
3x Wing Shards
3x Wrath of God

Anti-Combo:
4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance

Tutoring/Manipulation:
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Enlightened Tutor

Tutor Targets:
2x Isochron Scepter
1x Powder Keg
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Moat
1x Story Circle


SB:

2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Trinisphere
1x Rule of Law
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Sacred Ground
1x Hannah's Custody
1x Karmic Justice
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Aura of Silence
1x Pithing Needle
1x Humility
1x Thunderstaff
1x Grindstone
1x Mindslaver


Actually writing this out on a decksheet would be such a pain. Anyway;


Snow Engine- 25 Snow cards allow you to use Scrying Sheets blind fairly often EoT just to draw a land, keeping up your mana production, while digging you deeper towards the business cards. With Top out, it goes from decent to amazing, allowing you to rapidly dig through and stack your deck. Top also works with E. Tutor and Eternal Dragon for shuffle effects. Tutor is an important part of this deck, as all the one ofs might've made obvious. You can tutor for early answers to various decks in Seal, Powder Keg, and Isochron Scepter (sticking an Orim's Chant on it to lock them mostly out of the game, an StP just to kill all their creatures, or even an Abeyance to keep them off of random cards while drawing more cards yoursself), or get a late game powerhouse in Sacred Mesa, Story Circle, or Moat. With a different draw engine than Rabid Wombat, there's a lot more room for actual business spells; in addition to plenty of creature removal, you have cards that actually stop non-attacking decks; Terrageddon or Armageddon Stax or anything with Wildfire or Devastating Dreams was a nightmare matchup for Wombat, but with Scepter-Chant lock, you can actually shut them completely out of the game before they even get their land-wipes online; Scepter-Chant's good against pretty much everything, actually.

The sideboard is full of one ofs, although lots of them serve dual functions. Karmic Justice can supplement either Sacred Ground against the land-wipe strategies, or Hannah's Custody against Naturalizes; Trinisphere, Rule of Law, and Chalice are all pretty good against combo, and Thunderstaff is, too, actually (in addition to comboing with DoJ). Humility and Thunderstaff can lock out aggro completely, and Humility's good against creature-based combo and most aggro. Grindstone and Mindslaver are bombs in the tedious control-mirror. And Aura and Seal are just for the extra disenchant effects, when you want them- say, against Stax or Raffinity or Fairy Stompy.

My testing results so far, mostly preboard;


CRET Belcher: 1:1. This is better than I had expected. The scariest thing is first turn Belcher with LED, but you can Tutor for (or just draw) Seal of Cleansing and Powder Keg to shut down tokens/Charbelcher, or Orim's Chant in response to a Desperate Ritual. Or you can cast Orim's Chant with kicker to fog a turn while you get to Wrath mana. About half of the time, that's insufficient, but post-board it should also get noticeably better with Pithing Needle, Chalice, and Seal of Cleansing/Rule of Law, etc. in place of StP and Wing Shards.

Goblins: 5:2. This is about what you'd expect. You have most of the tools Wombat has against Goblins; while there's no lifegain (although I'm pondering an Ivory Tower in the board), and only one Rune, you also have Moat and Scepter-Chant, to which they have no real answer most of the time. Humility and Thunderstaff are strong sideboard options here.

Threshold: 3:2. It depends a great deal on what color you're playing against; white and black are easier game 1 than Red, which can more often burn you out if you get too low. This matchup isn't a cakewalk at all; you have to respect the power of Mongoose and Tarmogoyf backed up by Force and Daze. If they don't draw too many counters, however, you should be able to keep their board clear and resolve some bombs, either defensive in Story Circle and Moat and Scepter, or simply in Valkyrie/Eternal Dragon form.

Red Death: 2:1. Sensei's Divining Top and Enlightened Tutor are fucking amazing here. Dark Ritual is their scariest card, as they can sometimes outrace you, and burn can take you out if you stabilize at too low life, but generally your ability to play from the top and kill all the threats they produce wins you the game.

RGBSA: 2:5. Genesis and Anger are really bad for you, especially with discard/Wish backup. Your best bet here is to try and get Scepter-Chant online as soon as possible. Humility and Pithing Needle and Crypts make this a little bit better postboard.

Solidarity: 1:Graham's Number. I don't think it's actually possible to win this matchup against a competent opponent unless they have a heart attack midway through the round.


Edit:

Most Recent List:

18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets

2x Eternal Dragon
2x Painter's Servant
2x Grindstone
1x Sacred Mesa

4x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Enlightened Tutor
1x Argivian Find

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Runed Halo
3x Oblivion Ring
3x Wrath of God
1x Moat

4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
2x Isochron Scepter

Sb:
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Argivian Find
1x Grindstone
1x Painter's Servant
1x Isochron Scepter
1x Sacred Ground
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Pithing Needle
1x Aura of Silence
1x Powder Keg
1x Jester's Cap
1x Defense Grid
1x Ghostly Prison

Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT

---

Fetchlands do not have the snow type. Bad synergy with Scrying Sheets, which is stronger with Top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT

---

Running Fetchlands would mean that the Scrying Sheets engine doesn't work anymore.

I like this deck, it has much of the power Wombat had and a nice drawing engine. With Solidarity not being one of the major parts of the metagame anymore, the combo matchup should become at least winnable since decks like Belcher can be more easily disrupted with Chant and Abeyance.

I've got fond memories of playing Frigid Wombat, at least before I got bored of 30-minute games. The deck's close enough that IMO you could have just posted it in the Wombat thread, but that's not worth discussing.

Major notes:

1) Adarkar Valkyrie was always terrible to me. Being snow doesn't make up for paying 6 mana for a pumped Serra Avenger with a rarely-relevant ability. Exalted Angel wins the game when you're losing, Adarkar Valkyrie wins the game when you're winning.
2) Clean up the wannabe-wishboard. Karmic Justice is only played in Enchantress, and is much worse than Sacred Ground. Hannah's Custody is crap even in Stax. Mindslaver is worthless. Aura of Silence is no Serenity. Rule of Law does basically the same thing as Trinisphere. Grindstone is cool, but worse than the Future Sight Millstone (whatever it's called). Play some Spheres of Resistance.
3) Lands: +1 Urza's Factory, +1 Ancient Den, +1/2 Mouth of Ronom
4) Possible "man plan" in the SB? If you maindeck Angels and bring in Moms, Avengers, and maybe some Knights...

I actually found the ability to be quite useful in the Threshold matchup. 4 life a turn often doesn't counteract Tarmogoyf beats, but stealing a Tarmogoyf after a Wing Shards or Wrath can be completely game-swinging.

I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cerryl

I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?

---

Obvious answer: The better manabase and a landbased drawengine. You'll never lose to colorscrew with this deck and unless your opponent has Wastelands he can't counter your drawengine. Of course this deck has other weaknesses that arise with this approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cerryl

I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?

---

It can win games where it doesn't get Scepter-Chant online and/or the opponent runs Disenchant or Krosan Grip.

Nihil: What would you recommend as an alternate sideboard? What would yours look like?

Coming from a standard players POV, if you need lifegain martyr of sands could do that. Obviously as a board card, but he can throw his body into an attacker and gain 15 life.

Thank god someone is abusing E. tutor. I've been trying and failing for a few weeks now.

I know you can't get too cute with the mana base, but have you ever felt the need for an Ancient Den as a fetchable one of?

Edit: Nihil beat me to it.

If you haven't already given up on the Solidarity matchup you could try fitting 3 more Rule of Laws in the board. As well how about the janky "Wall of Hope" in the board vs Aggro?

Your numbers vs CRET Belcher seem optimistic. I would be interested in the results of futher testing against the deck.

I think a few of the creature choices, mainly so many Valkyries are sub-par. If I feel up to it I will search the Gatherer for creatures and suggest a few.

I really like the deck and I think that with some work it could become competitive.

Did you try that Snow-Artifact-mana card for 2 mana? Heart of Something? I use 3-4 Mind Stones in Wombat and I find them critical to ramp up the mana curve to 4cc on turn 3. Is it not worth it to tap out on turn 2?

Speaking of 4cc have you tried Gerrard's Wisdom? Seems like your hand would be full of cards with the Snow Engine. I use Wisdom in Wombat to Time Stretch against aggro, and its pretty rediculous against decks with a slow clock. Also, it can make a turn 3 Tendrils win much harder for your opponent if you can accelerate into it.

I think you could stand to be a little (a lot) less zealous with the Tutor Board. Why Story Circle over Rune of/Circle of Protection? I think Warmth would be a good target for the burn MU.

EDIT: Coldsteel Heart

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by revenge_inc

If you haven't already given up on the Solidarity matchup you could try fitting 3 more Rule of Laws in the board.

---

I think if he did that it would kind of be like trying to put out a forest fire with a super soaker. More than a little bit of wishful thinking, and definitely a waste of board space I would think.

In the SB is there a reason we are running Thunderstaff rather than Caltrops...preventing is nice, but if we can kill them why not? Only reason I could think of was to pump decree tokens for a faster kill or make eternal dragon/valkyrie trade with enforcers. It just seems that it would be more effective without the need for humility, but I'm the creator of the deck so I would like your input.

I like the MD, but I think the SB could be changed. I would run something like:

1x Humility
4x Chalice
2x Rule of Law
2x Crypt
1x Trinisphere
2x Needle
1x Sacred Ground
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Thunderstaff

I think the Chalice count needs to be upped for combo, and that things like Mindslaver and Millstone aren't all that hot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

I actually found the ability to be quite useful in the Threshold matchup. 4 life a turn often doesn't counteract Tarmogoyf beats, but stealing a Tarmogoyf after a Wing Shards or Wrath can be completely game-swinging.

---

I'd be hard-pressed to find a better example of win-more :tongue:

Anyway, my tweaked list:

// Lands
15 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
2 [CS] Mouth of Ronom
4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
1 [DS] Darksteel Citadel

// Win conditions
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
2 [SC] Eternal Dragon
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [MI] Sacred Mesa

// Creature control
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [DIS] Condemn
2 [SC] Wing Shards
3 [PR] Wrath of God
1 [9E] Story Circle
1 [LG] Moat

// Stall or lock
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [OV] Abeyance

// Search
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor

// Toolbox
2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
1 [UD] Powder Keg
1 [FNM] Seal of Cleansing

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [7E] Sacred Ground
SB: 1 [WL] Serenity
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Orim's Prayer
SB: 1 [TSP] Stuffy Doll

Changes:

+1 Condemn, -1 Wing Shards: Unless you're playing against Goblins (the only deck that will give you storm before attacking), Wing Shards is a crappy Edict until turn 4 at best. In my book, that means it's a 2-of, not a 3-of. With a lot of Goblins in the meta, it can deserve the third slot.

Exalted Angel over Valkyrie: Already explained.

Toolbox lands: Combined with dropping the Valkyrie, this brings the snow count down to 21; considering that Scrying at blind doesn't happen that often (you'll usually draw either a Tutor or a Top, and if you have neither, chances are your hand contains removal or Angels), I find that an acceptable price. I went with Darksteel Citadel over Ancient Den, since it's immune to Wasteland (which is critical when you're Tutoring for a land). Urza's Factory was skipped since the deck already has four separate win conditions, and Extirpate-style hate isn't expected in Game 1.

Sideboard: Completely reworked.
4 Spheres of Resistance give you a shot vs. combo, and going to 3 Powder Kegs makes Goblin tokens much less scary - but it is also useful against Landstill manlands and the like.
Jotun Grunt is graveyard removal that doubles as a solid beater; works well as a generic spot-filler.
Serenity owns Stax and Enchantress (protect it with Chant/Abeyance against the latter!). At first I was worried about it blowing up Sacred Ground, but then I realized that if you have Sacred Ground in play against Stax, there's no reason to want to blow up the board.
Orim's Prayer replaces Thunderstaff; the Staff's ability is irrelevant since you'll side out Decree and Mesa in those matchups, and an enchantment is generally harder to remove for Burning Wish Combo.
I cut the Millstone wannabe (although my pick for that slot, if any, would be Tower of Murmurs), because the only deck against which I'd rather have that than Stuffy Doll is Life.dec. The Doll performs admirably against large, non-evasive beaters (Tarmogoyf, I'm looking at you).

While I'm not 100% sold on Adarkar Valkyrie, Exalted Angel is little better. The spirit link isn't significantly better than Vigilance + creature stealing, and I never want to morph her. And often not costing a card off of sheets pushes Adarkar significantly over. If I was to drop her at all, it would be for +1 DoJ, +1 Dragon, and +1 Scepter.

Combo: I already have a shot versus combo. The new combo doesn't care about Sphere because it's usually going off before Sphere hits. I'd rather run Pithing Needles or more Ghostly Prisons or Powder Kegs to deal with Goblins (Ghostly Prison being good against all kinds of Goblins). Combo simply works differently than it used to. It's less vulnerable to slow stax effects, at it doesn't wait to get a few extra cards and mana drops before going off; but it is more vulnerable to things that deal with 1/1 hordes.

I don't need Wing Shards before turn 4 against Gro/Fish variants, and Goblins feeds it if they're going to kill me before it hits. Considering that StP + Wing Shards is almost always a Wrath at instant speed, I don't think your argument for cutting the number of Wing Shards is strong enough. I really don't want to lose to Nimble Mongoose simply because I can't find an answer. I think 5 StPs is enough here.

I'm definitely interested in Mouth of Ronom, but I'm worried that 15 White sources is too few. I have found myself wishing I could tutor for mana, and Darksteel Citadel is also a bonus against Armageddon, so I'm definitely interested in running that card. I might try one Mouth for a bit.

Stuffy Doll eats it to StP in the Landstill matchup, which Grindstone does not. Although the thought of running Tower of Murmurs instead had occurred to me, given how slow that matchup is.

I had been running 2x Crypt for the ability to play it twice, which I found quite useful. I wasn't running Jotun Grunt though. But in my experience, while Jotun Grunt can be a good beater, he's actually really shitty graveyard hate against anything but Threshold.

The argument about Orim's Prayer being harder to remove for Belcher than Thunderstaff is actually pretty decent. But at that point I think I'd rather just run Ghostly Prison and be able to bring it in against Vial-Goblins.

Right now I'm looking at something like this:

16x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Darksteel Citadel

2x Decree of Justice
2x Eternal Dragon
3x Adarkar Valkyrie (or +1 DoJ, +1 E Dragon, +1 Scepter)
1x Sacred Mesa

3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance

4x StP
1x Condemn
3x Wing Shards
3x Wrath of God

2x Isochron Scepter
1x Powder Keg
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Story Circle
1x Moat

sb:
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ghostly Prison
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Aura of Silence
1x Powder Keg
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Humility
1x Sacred Ground
1x Tower of Murmurs
1x Ivory Mask

Wow, I'm touched. And I even like the deck. Snow is too cool.

You may want Jotun Grunt in the Valkyre slot. Valkyre is a strong finisher and has snow synergy while Grunt is a solid creature and his ability can work like Gaea's Blessing in Helldozerdeck or Irish Wombat and recycle your threats and solutions. Just see him as a 5-mana creature that is playable as a 2-mana-wall against Aggro decks.


see the matchups you tested:

Belcher: both are not important

Goblins: Grunt is a fast blocker when in trouble, even though he is a worse finisher here; again both are about the same.

Threshold: Grunt is pure awesomeness, Valkyre is way too slow; Grunt is a million times superior

Red Death: 2 Mana and he stops every creature they have and they can't kill it without a 2-1 for you (or a 1-1 / 0-1 against a Shade and they can't play Disruption that turn and they need to have a lot of Black mana). Valykre is unplayable unless you have already won; again Grunt is way superior

RGb/SA: The only matchup in which Valkyre is clearly stronger.

Solidarity: It weakens their Flash of Insight. Furthermore it can be played and you can still leave Mana open for Chant and Abeyance.

Furthermore Grunt can randomly beat decks like Ichorid, Loam or similar Yard based decks.

I can almost buy this, but I'm failing to see the synergy Grunt has with snow. I'm definitely liking the idea of Grunt more than Exalted Angel, however.

I didn't mention any synergy of Grun with Snow.

Ha, I misread your post. n/m. I'm retarded.

I just came across this thread and realized that now, with it's more Enlightened Tutor-based gameplan, it is very similar to the Holy-redux deck I came up with around 2004. IBA you may remember this as well as we discussed it a bit and there's also two threads on it, so I can't help but think some of the ideas from The Mighty Quinn might've been borrowed from it. Now, those threads are unfortunately in Archives so members can't view them (although I'd like to work to make the archives public as they are great reference points), but I'll post the list that I had.

Now, keep in mind this is from November 2004, right after the B/r split took place, so it's very outdated. The list was primarily focused on dealing with the Survival outbreak and to handle all the new artifact acceleration the format was given, just in case anyone was wondering on the bizarre design.

4 Exalted Angel
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Mobilization

4 Enlightened Tutor
1 Humility
1 Null Rod
1 Cursed Totem
1 Aura of Silence
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ivory Mask
4 Argivian Find

2 Pulse of the Fields
3 Tithe

3 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wing Shards
2 Illumination

2 Chrome Mox
2 Wasteland
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
11 Plains

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Sphere of Law
1 Humility
1 Null Rod
1 Cursed Totem
1 Aura of Silence
2 Choke
2 Defense Grid


Fortunately, there have been numerous advances in card printing that make this deck better (Scrying Sheets, Grunt, etc) so the obvious make the cut today. But to answer some of the things you were wondering IBA:

- Regarding life gain, Pulse of the Fields is a freaking bomb. It was huge then, I run it in my Landstill sideboard now, and it's incredibly good. I'd give it a shot.

- Is the flying ability make Sacred Mesa that much better than Mobilization? I'd assume yes, as by that time you'll have like 10+ land in play, so the upkeep shouldn't be an issue.

- Null Rod is incredibly good against combo. I'd at least test them for the combo matchups, but I'm not sure if it's better than Trinisphere (although the cheaper cost is nice).

- Argivian Find is hawt. Maybe not as good now as it was then, but Regrowth on all that stuff is really good.


Pretty much everything else is rather similar in terms of design (I later had Isochron Scepter in the list as well). It's funny how similar that looks after 2 1/2 years.

1) Moat + Mobilization = Not a combo. Also, Mesa doesn't produce Soldiers, which is important when you're facing Engineered Plague.

2) Yes, there are similitaries between Holy Redux and The Mighty Quinn. There are also similarities between Holy Redux and Crazy 88's. There's bound to be some similarities between any builds of MWC. However, note that Mighty Quinn is better adapted to the current metagame with more answers to first turn Goblin hordes, a better draw engine (which is to say, any), a smoother mana curve/manabase, and a powerful lock in Scepter-Chant that allows it to compete against strategies like Terrageddon or RGBSA.

Quote:

---

1) Moat + Mobilization = Not a combo. Also, Mesa doesn't produce Soldiers, which is important when you're facing Engineered Plague.

---

derf derf. Please excuse my lack of eyes for I did not see a Moat in the decklist upon first glance.

Quote:

---

2) Yes, there are similitaries between Holy Redux and The Mighty Quinn. There are also similarities between Holy Redux and Crazy 88's. There's bound to be some similarities between any builds of MWC. However, note that Mighty Quinn is better adapted to the current metagame with more answers to first turn Goblin hordes, a better draw engine (which is to say, any), a smoother mana curve/manabase, and a powerful lock in Scepter-Chant that allows it to compete against strategies like Terrageddon or RGBSA.

---

It's more difficult to compare them to Crazy 88's or other MWC builds because there are really the only ET-based ones, at least the only ones that I've seen. Holy redux and The Mighty Quinn have far more close lists (bare in mind the time difference) than any of those other lists. And obviously this list is more adapted to the current metagame, it's the only recent monowhite list since Rabid Wombat (which was awful no offense). I mean, you can't take old decklists and compare them to a current metagame, unless they happened to be the same metagame.

Anyway, you didn't really answer my questions, but rather just stated the obvious. I tend to breeze by your posts because they are normally composed of nothing but endless paragraphs filled with big words and irrelevant rhetoric, so I'm unsure as to that's how you normally respond, but I was wondering what you actually had to say about that. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, that'll cause me to leave the thread out of boredom. I just merely, as you did, state the obvious. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Di

I tend to breeze by your posts because they are normally composed of nothing but endless paragraphs filled with big words and irrelevant rhetoric...

...I'm not trying to start an argument...

---

What a silly and obvious lie.

To answer your question, no, Holy Redux wasn't an inspiration in building the deck, aside from providing a good idea of how not to use Enlightened Tutor.

As to your other points, aside from the Sacred Mesa one, Null Rod costs two mana and most of the time CRET Belcher will empty their hand on turn 1, so that's not the best sb hate. And I don't want either Pulse or Argivian Find because I don't want to cut room for multiples and I can't tutor for either.

Is there a point in having the scepter 'lock' in this deck?

I can't see it any more affective i n a nonblue deck that cannot protect the 'lock' even if it wanted to.

wouldn't you just simply want more board control instead?

The scepter lock can create wins out of nowhere against decks like Survival, Loam, Rock or Ichorid, all matchups which are autolosses without it. It also wins G1 against Goblins, Faerie Stompy and other Aggro decks. Furthermore Chant is a gamebreaker against Combo. It is also good together with Wing Shards against Thresh/ Fish or against Control decks to force key spells into play.
And Scepter is not only good with Chant, but also with Swords and Abeyance. I think the Scepter / Chant is a strong inclusion.

Frank P. Ramsey is the stone cold shit. Their should be pigeons in magic, and holes for them to hide in.

White Command

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana4.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif Sorceryhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/lorwyn-rare.gifChoose two - Destroy all enchantments; or destroy all artifacts; or destroy all creatures with a converted mana cost of 3 or less; or destroy all creatures with a converted mana cost greater than 3.


Soo... kill opponent's creatures, your Dragons and Angels live; kill opponent's (flying?) creatures and Jitte, your Mesa or Moat lives; kill opponent's Enchantress army, your Isochron Scepter lives. This card looks pretty damn badass in any MWC shell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nihil

White Command

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana4.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif Sorceryhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/lorwyn-rare.gifChoose two - Destroy all enchantments; or destroy all artifacts; or destroy all creatures with a converted mana cost of 3 or less; or destroy all creatures with a converted mana cost greater than 3.


Soo... kill opponent's creatures, your Dragons and Angels live; kill opponent's (flying?) creatures and Jitte, your Mesa or Moat lives; kill opponent's Enchantress army, your Isochron Scepter lives. This card looks pretty damn badass in any MWC shell.

---

It certainly screams versatility. It's either Wrath, or a mini wrath + Tempest of Light or Shatterstorm. This thing pretty much lets you keep whatever you want on the table, and get rid of what you don't. And Mono-White can definitely afford 6 mana.

On a side note, you know we have mana symbols too, right? They look like this:

Code:

---

:w:

---

= :w:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCramp

Their should be pigeons in magic, and holes for them to hide in.

---

Actually, there are pigeons, but the holes are another matter.

The white Command seems interesting here, but is it really better than a standard Wrath? It's a full two turns slower, which matters against fast decks. Plus, your creatures already can recur themselves (Eternal Dragon, two Valkyries). How often do you need to selectively destroy artifacts or enchantments? If it doesn't come up that often, it might be more productive to run this in the sideboard, if at all.

I will admit that this card is far and away the better card when compared to Akroma's Vengeance, at least in this deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pinder

On a side note, you know we have mana symbols too, right?

---

I do, but I just cut & pasted from the MTGSal spoiler page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aggro_Zombies

The white Command seems interesting here, but is it really better than a standard Wrath? It's a full two turns slower, which matters against fast decks. Plus, your creatures already can recur themselves (Eternal Dragon, two Valkyries). How often do you need to selectively destroy artifacts or enchantments? If it doesn't come up that often, it might be more productive to run this in the sideboard, if at all.

I will admit that this card is far and away the better card when compared to Akroma's Vengeance, at least in this deck.

---

I was thinking that because Vengeance has pretty much disappeared, and White Command isn't that much better than it (let's face it, it will be a six-mana Wrath over half the time), it would be more interesting to somewhat build around the card.

In other words, you could run more permanents in the deck and leave only 2-3 Wraths as your symmetric removal; the rest would be StP, Wing Shards, White Command, and Moat, none of which would affect your own creatures. A set of: 2-3 Dragons, 3-4 Valkyries, 4 Exalted, 1-2 Decree, 0-1 Crovax might be a good place to start.

Historically speaking, decks such as "Quinn" or as I have come to call it, "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman," are really only as good as their silver bullets and sideboards therein (i.e. Flores Black, Maher Oath, etc.) The deck's ability to side in a strong if not perfect answer to almost any deck is its greatest asset, right?

So, what is the ideal md toolbox/sideboard for you guys?

I really like Powder Keg and Moat MD. However, Story Circle seems somewhat weak, as preventing damage against most aggressive decks is just too mana-intensive (especially considering that the deck wants to throw down a scepter-lock post haste, which costs 2-3 mana a turn). Neo-Goyf decks (Aggro Loam, RXX Zoo, etc.) have threats that come in many different colors, hurting it even more.

Story Circle is also quite slow against combo, as you have better options against Belcher in the form of Chant-locking them before the big belch (plus pithing needle in the board). Their goblin plan backup plan is also a bit much for Story Circle to handle alone. I cannot think of another combo deck that uses a damage dealing spell to kill you, as TES uses life loss, salvages game uses nigh-infinite damage, aluren uses uses infinite damage.

Oh wait, there's Cephalid Breakfast and their 40/40 Sutured Ghoul. You play a deck designed to wreck creatures. Nevermind. In conclusion, it seems like a better sb card. Maybe you can wreck a 15-year old playing burn.

Does Pithing Needle warrant its own md spot to hurt belcher and fully lock goblins under scepter chant? MD crypt?

A very rough toolbox/sideboard for me would look like this:

MD Toolbox:
1 x Moat
1 x Powder Keg
1 x Pithing Needle


Sideboard:
2 x Pithing Needle // Answers lots of stuff; see below
3 x Tormod's Crypt // Dredge!/Threshold
1 x Powder Keg // Dredge/Threshold/Belcher/Aggro Loam
1 x Chalice of the Void // Yeesh
1 x Ghostly Prison// Dredge/Belcher/Any Aggressive Creature Strategy
1 x Sacred Ground // Aggro-Loam/Stax
1 x Rule of Law // Storm-based combos/Salvager's Game
1 x Serenity (Aura of Silence) // Stax/Random Affinity/Any artifact-based strategies
2 x Seal of Cleansing // Jitte/Vial/Belcher
1 x Enlightened Tutor // Goes in versus any strategy where you have a good to great silver bullet
1 x Abeyance // Useful as another scepter option vs. loam, non-instant speed combos, and control/aggro-control matchups

So, this sideboard is quite rough, but it appears to get the job done. Serenity is a great card, but to be effective it has to be the first permanent you play in a given game, as nuking your scepter and/or forcing your divining-top to the top of your library suxors.

Aura of Silence can be experimented with here, particularly if you run Mox Diamond (which lets Aura out on turn two but is highly anti-synergistic with Serenity) or see a great deal of Stax or Affinity in your neighborhood. Turn two Aura is actually an extremely strong play against said decks.

Chalice of the Void is another tough call to make here, as the 'good' chalice numbers (1,2) screw your deck up pretty badly. Thus, one Chalice is included to stop LED and other good turn 1 plays.

Pithing Needle is an all-around great card versus, well, almost everything that plays permanents (stupid Dredge). Turning off Vial, Jitte, Engineered Explosives, Deed, Cephalid Colliseum, SGC, Belcher, Cavern Harpy.. (insert many other cards here) are all good plays. You know what to do with this card.

I believe the rest of the cards make sense. Comments? Suggestions? Designing these type of tool-box sideboards is one of the toughest tasks in magic, especially in a wide-open format like legacy.

Temporal Isolation is a tutorable answer to Sutured Ghoul if you have a Top in play and 3 lands.

I spent about a month trying to make a good pox deck without any success. I decided to throw together Quinn, and I went 3-3.

This is the list I ran:

18 Snow Plains
4 Scrying Sheets

3 E Tutor
3 Divining Top

3 Valkyrie
2 Eternal Dragon
1 Jotun Grunt
2 Decree of Justice

3 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Orim's Chant
3 Abeyance
3 Wing Shards

2 Isochron Scepter
1 Moat
1 Story Circle
1 Ivory Mask
1 Powder Keg
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Sacred Mesa

SB

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
1 Null Rod
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Privileged Position
1 Sacred Ground
1 Serenity
1 Humility
1 Karma
1 Damping Matrix (anti Death and taxes tech)
1 Warmth
1 Ghostly Prison

I should have done better than 3-3, one match I boarded like an idiot and I made several play errors through the day. 3-3 is still decent considering I haven't played at all since the summer.

This deck gets a lot of cheap wins against decks that just cant handle scepter chant or moat game one. When you win people hate their life, which is good.

Goyf sligh is just too fucking fast for what I had to handle it. Story circle is too clunky to stop everything. I don't think you can live long enough to cast both Ivory mask and Moat. Warmth sucks.

Karma is very good.

I'd say that any threshold deck not running burn is a favorable match up.

I ran grunt as a way to get back my silver bullets that had been countered. Every game I got him he was very good. I think he is probably better than Valkyrie.

Hoofprints are a lot better than Sacred Mesa -especially togehter with Sheets.
Oblivion Ring might be a decent addition, too.

correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think scrying sheets triggers hoofprints. it says you reveal the card, then put it into your hand. hoofprints requires a draw to add a counter.

Hoofprints doesn't get helped by sheets, but it does get help from top. I didn't consider playing it because I didn't have any.