[Deck] Dreadnought is a Fairy

If you recall, I posted a standard Fairie Stompy list running a single Dreadnought along with 4 Trickbind a few months ago. The Dreadnoughts worked so well in that deck that I wish I saw that combo every game. That's what led me to create the below deck.

The below deck is absolutely incredible and I wouldn't be even the tiniest bit surprised to see it win a major tournament or two in the next few months. A Dreadnought with either FoW or Misdirection backing it up is often an autowin.

The only decks that have a shot of racing such a clock are fast combo, but fast combo decks have an incredibly difficult time against Trickbind/Stifle/Pithing Needle effects.

So here's my most up to date build of the deck...

// Mana
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TS] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Beatsticks
4 [RV] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FS] Infiltrator il-Kor
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [PR] Sea Drake

// Utility
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [ST] Stifle
4 [TS] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [SK] Pithing Needle
1 [FD] Sensei's Divining Top

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Misdirection*
SB: 3 Maelstrom Djinn**
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Bonesplitter
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

*Would work rather well in the maindeck.

**Should be replaced with Weatherseed Fairies if you expect to see a lot of goblins.

The sideboard is designed so that the deck can readily transform into a standard build of Fairie Stompy when facing a matchup such as Threshold that is extremely vulnerable to a Chalice set to one, or has numerous ways to counter or kill Dreadnought. Against certain thresh builds for example, I side out...

-4 Brainstorm
-4 Stifle
-3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Sensei's Divining Top

and side in...

+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Maelstrom Djinn
+2 Misdirection
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Engineered Explosives

Thats why the Djinn are in the board, to ensure that your threat count stays high enough to apply pressure even after siding out Dreadnought. For a while, I also ran 2 Umezawe's Jitte in the board for this reason, but didn't find them useful often enough. They may end up going back in if they are found to be needed as a way to deal with Goyf.

Another option that is worth considering as a way to deal with Goyf is to run a single fetchable dual land along with a maindeck Engineered Explosives. What do you guys think, should I be running Volcanic Island (Bluffs Pyroclasm, PoP) or Tundra (Bluffs StP, Armageddon) as my one of?

The one thing that probably sticks out the most is that so many of the one of Trinket Mage targets wound up in the sideboard. Initially, the idea of resolving a Dreadnought, then fetching a Chalice and setting it at one to stop StP was very appealing. So was setting Chalice at zero to stop storm's LEDs, setting EE at zero to blow up Matron tokens, fetching Tormod's Crypt to empty the thresh player's yard, or using Bonesplitter to put the control player on a three turn clock even after they managed to kill off your Dreadnought. But in my particular meta, these situations seem to either come up fairly rarely or were overkill. The deck had plenty of tools against storm based decks without Chalice and EE. And it usually had little difficulty racing Threshold without Tormod's Crypt. For the most part, the only cards that I ever fetched with Trinket Mage were either Dreadnought, or Sensei's Divining Top to help me find a Stifle/Trickbind. The Pithing Needle sometimes proved to be a life saver against Wastelands and such so they stayed. But EE, Bonesplitter, Tormod's Crypt and Chalice of the Void all eventually got booted to the board.

Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Bonesplitter and Engineered Explosives (accompanied by a Volcanic Island) probably deserve to be in the maindeck as one ofs in a more competitive environment, as maindeck tools against control, threshold and combo respectively, but they just weren't being fetched often enough in my particular meta and I just couldn't figure out what to cut to make room for them. Cutting threats seems to only make the deck overly dependent on Dreadnought. Misdirection (and arguably Psionic Blast) create a similar problem. Misdirection especially seems very viable in order to protect Dreadnought from removal, but there just doesn't seem to be anything that can be cut without making the deck inconsistent and overly dependent on Dreadnought to go the distance.

Even the current number of threats sometimes seems inadequate. This is why I keep going back and forth between Brainstorm and a 2/2 split between Misdirection and Maelstrom Djinn in that slot. Some days, the deck feels too vulnerable to removal and too light on threats multiple games in a row and I end up replacing the Brainstorm with Misdirection and Maelstrom Djinn. Then, the deck starts feeling too threat heavy, and I end up switching back to Brainstorm.

As for why Juggernaut wasn't considered. A part of me used to support running Juggernaut over Maelstrom Djinn before Tarmogoyf took over legacy. But Goyf has a way of making a 4cc vanilla 5/3 that is required to attack each turn and can't be pitched to either FoW or Chrome Mox obselete. In fact, Goyf has a way of making any creature without evasion (with the notable exception of Dreadnought) obselete.

This is all very meta dependent though. Depending on the decks that show up the most often in your meta, of if you plan to take this list to a competitive tourney, going...

-6 Infiltrator il-Kor/Brainstorm
-1 Island

+1 Volcanic Island
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Bonesplitter
+1 Chalice of the Void
+1 Engineered Explosives
+2 Misdirection

might well be the correct call.

Props to ParkerLewis for suggesting the second part of the name.

with 13 1cc spells, I cannot say that you will have very many chances to bring in that challice... I think it has a slight disynergy with low cc decks, but that could be just me.

I do like the idea of the deck though... how has it been testing out for you?

I also think that you could run 1 EE for a trinket target, set it at one hits mongeese & vials... set at 0 takes out ETW tokens, not sure how effective it would be at those limitations though.

have the double producing lands screwed with your 1cc spells at all?

just some questions/thoughts... peace.

I like this deck. Me and Legacy Player0 were actually discussing the use of Dreadnaught in a Fairy Stompyish build. We came to the conclusion that other than Cephalid Breakfast, this is really the only other legitimate way to abuse Dreadnought without sucking.

As said, I'm a bit worried about your use of Chalice. But I guess Chalice @ 2 doesn't hurt your list that much (well there's trickbind, but that's it).
I'm still not a fan of the infiltrator. think about it :

-with suspend, the fastest they can EVER come out is on turn 3, and that is, only if you have Chrome Mox in your starting hand, have another blue card to sacrifice for it, and have nothing better to do.
-without suspend... unless you're a god it's here again turn 3 minimum, and using a whopping five mana for it.

And you can't even block with it. I'm definitely not a fan of this guy.

I'd much rather put an EE as suggested as a general utility trinket target, and replace the two other with "stupid" juggernaut, which actually comes into play at the same time or just plain faster than infiltrator in almost any case (and is much tougher).

-3 Infiltrator
+1 EE
+2 Juggernaut

Moreover, I need to point out how, as we're drifting away from the "chalice @1, chalice @ 2, and cheat our 3cc spells in thanks to double mana producing lands" plan (which i'm not saying is a bad move at all, on the opposite, i feel like although a good strategy, the traditional FS deck was a bit stuck), maybe it's time to reconsider the said eight lands. It seems now the deck could use some more drawing power (especially since it lost the SOFIs) and just doesn't need those special lands that much now. I mean, just look at how your curve is different now !

In that aspect, the brainstorms seem very potent, but they need a few more fetches to make sure they're put to good use.

So, i guess it would be worth trying
-1 Ancient tomb
-1 City of traitors
-1 Chrome Mox (which also means 1 card less to pitch to it)
+2 Flooded Strand
+1 Island

i bet you'd have smoother results with the brainstorm in particular, and in general as well.

About time someone tries the deck with something else than Chalices. Props for that. No equipment looks like it could hurt; the original deck's power came as much from being able to pummel opponent's creatures while pummeling the face as from the Chalices. Is Dreadnought truly so big you don't just need anything else? Also, I'd want more creatures and Infiltrator seems like a fine choice, synergising with Chalice at 2 and acting as a decent clock while also working with the curve.

I think I'd consider dropping one City of Traitors for an Island to round out the manabase. Thirst for Knowledge is pretty handy too, although the draw-slot is going to be harder here as Dreadnought adds even more card disadvantage so just cardfiltering isn't going to do much, what you really need is some true drawpower. Might be time to revisit one ancient idea from Faerie Stompy in Oath of Scholars; with Dreadnoughts, Forces, Moxes and company, you'll empty your hand fast enough and it'll allow you to rebuild it constantly. It does cost 4, which doesn't mesh with the whole 'no Cloud of Faeries'-plan, but it should still be alright. What I really like is how this build could just sideboard into classical Faerie Stompy and the opposite.

Oh yeah, I'd probably fit Engineered Explosives in the 'trinkets'-section, perhaps over Tormod's along with one non-Island Island in the manabase to set it at two (I've found it handy enough), especially since you play no 2-drops yourself and Tarmogoyf, Survival et co. all cost 2. Furthermore, I'd consider Sensei's Divining Top here as you've got the fetches and you want manipulation. I don't even know if you want that one MD Chalice anymore; SB 4 and be done with it. Although being able to cast it for 2 against Threshold and for 0 against combo is of course still sweet. Don't know really, judgment call there.

My biggest problem with dreadnought is that he fails vs. the best decks in Legacy. Combo ignores him (I guess there's a chance he could race if you have a mox, but why would you tap out if you have a stifle effect?). Sure, the stifles are great against combo and your matchup is probably really good (add the Explosives) but it would actually be BETTER without Dreadnought since you will hardly ever cast him (maybe if you have 3 Stifles or Binds). Goblins just slaughters him. TSH. Matron for Hooligan. StP. Boarded Grudges and Grips. You are entering a world of card disadvantage pain. Threshold deals with him almost as well. I guess you might get lucky and pass him by Daze and Force with a Trickbind, but StP and boarded Grips, Explosives, and Grudges will make short work of him.

That said, he's big enough that he might actually deserve some testing. Who knows?

My short thoughts on the build:

1) Don't waffle on the draw slot. You run fetches. Go Brainstorm.
2) Here's why I don't like O-naginata in this or any FS build. He can't be attached to the one creature you are guaranteed to have when you get him, and if you have two creatures, you probably aren't fetching equipment. Also, the trample is irrelevant as the only creature that doesn't have evasion or trample is the one that can't hold O-naginata. Consider Bonesplitter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

My biggest problem with dreadnought is that he fails vs. the best decks in Legacy. Combo ignores him (I guess there's a chance he could race if you have a mox, but why would you tap out if you have a stifle effect?). Sure, the stifles are great against combo and your matchup is probably really good (add the Explosives) but it would actually be BETTER without Dreadnought since you will hardly ever cast him (maybe if you have 3 Stifles or Binds).

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If the matchup is good, then why do we care ? with eight stifle effects, it's almost a given you'll make them fizzle once. at this point, you have several free turns before they can recover and try to trigger again. during which you just win thanks to regular stomping (or a dread if you have a second stifle effect, which is not that unusual with 8 of them md).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Goblins just slaughters him. TSH. Matron for Hooligan. StP. Boarded Grudges and Grips.

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you do realize though the counters are meant for this right ?
stp is not even a problem. when you gain twelve life, you've gained some time to find something else, be it regular bashing or another dread (which you have of and 4 mages to tinker for it).

I do admit grip is a pain, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Threshold deals with him almost as well. I guess you might get lucky and pass him by Daze and Force with a Trickbind

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I don't see how this can be considered "luck". Please explain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

but StP and boarded Grips, Explosives, and Grudges will make short work of him.

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here again, please give me 12 life against threshold. the grips and explosives are still a pain though, you're right on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

That said, he's big enough that he might actually deserve some testing. Who knows?

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He's much more than that, and i think that's because you haven't realized it yet that you're so doubtful about him.

His presence JUSTIFIES the stifle effects MD. Without him, you're just wasting 8 md slots to completely useless cards against goblins, thresh, or any case of non-storm combo deck (well except for the occasional "haha stifled your fetch !" trick). So you either keep him MD as 4-of, or you just get rid of the stifle effects as well. which reverts us back to regular FS whose current limits seem to have been reached.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

If the matchup is good, then why do we care ? with eight stifle effects, it's almost a given you'll make them fizzle once. at this point, you have several free turns before they can recover and try to trigger again. during which you just win thanks to regular stomping (or a dread if you have a second stifle effect, which is not that unusual with 8 of them md).

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Here is why I brought this up: Dreadnought should SHINE in the combo matchup. Much like Negator in Red death, this should be the number one reason to run him, and everything else is just butter. And don't confuse a good matchup with an auto-win. I don't want my fattest fattie to be worse than Flying Men in the matchup where I need a speedy clock, and 'nought will often be exactly that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

you do realize though the counters are meant for this right ?
stp is not even a problem. when you gain twelve life, you've gained some time to find something else, be it regular bashing or another dread (which you have of and 4 mages to tinker for it).

I do admit grip is a pain, though.

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Everyone who has ever played Faerie Stompy will tell you the same thing here. Never, EVER, EVER, count on your counters. We simply run too few. Hell, Goblins might have more counters than we do post board. And MisDs are simply too unreliable and conditional even when you draw them.

So we have TSH which can't be Misdirected and is disgutingly good card and tempo advantage (hey, at least they only run a billion ways to dig on up) Grip which is completely unstoppable, and Grudge which requires two counters.

No matter how you slice it, Dreadnought is bad against Goblins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

I don't see how this can be considered "luck". Please explain.

here again, please give me 12 life against threshold. the grips and explosives are still a pain though, you're right on this.

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Luck in that they didn't counter the nought itslef, but that really doesn't matter. The lifegain might be significant if it wasn't card disadvantage and we ran a higher threat count. Also, Thresh can make 12 life disappear scary fast these days.

Once again, I'm not discarding the deck, merely stating the major hurdles it faces. This build has sacrificed a lot of the power of FS (Chalice, Jitte) for a conditional and questionable gigantic beater. Whether that will ever be worth it remains to be seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

About time someone tries the deck with something else than Chalices. Props for that. No equipment looks like it could hurt; the original deck's power came as much from being able to pummel opponent's creatures while pummeling the face as from the Chalices. Is Dreadnought truly so big you don't just need anything else? Also, I'd want more creatures and Infiltrator seems like a fine choice, synergising with Chalice at 2 and acting as a decent clock while also working with the curve.

I think I'd consider dropping one City of Traitors for an Island to round out the manabase. Thirst for Knowledge is pretty handy too, although the draw-slot is going to be harder here as Dreadnought adds even more card disadvantage so just cardfiltering isn't going to do much, what you really need is some true drawpower. Might be time to revisit one ancient idea from Faerie Stompy in Oath of Scholars; with Dreadnoughts, Forces, Moxes and company, you'll empty your hand fast enough and it'll allow you to rebuild it constantly. It does cost 4, which doesn't mesh with the whole 'no Cloud of Faeries'-plan, but it should still be alright. What I really like is how this build could just sideboard into classical Faerie Stompy and the opposite.

Oh yeah, I'd probably fit Engineered Explosives in the 'trinkets'-section, perhaps over Tormod's along with one non-Island Island in the manabase to set it at two (I've found it handy enough), especially since you play no 2-drops yourself and Tarmogoyf, Survival et co. all cost 2. Furthermore, I'd consider Sensei's Divining Top here as you've got the fetches and you want manipulation. I don't even know if you want that one MD Chalice anymore; SB 4 and be done with it. Although being able to cast it for 2 against Threshold and for 0 against combo is of course still sweet. Don't know really, judgment call there.

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I agree with everything you said. Infiltrator has been incredible. 2 mana for a 3 power evasive beatstick that you can discard to Force in a pinch is fantastic. I can't believe there was so much blowback to running him when the card came out. It's not that big a deal that one suspended on turn one won't do damage until turn 3. A Serendib Efreet played on turn 2 won't do damage until turn 3 either. Infiltrator is lower on the mana curve for the same amount of damage. This is important since you won't see an Tomb/City every game.

When you don't see Tomb/City, Infiltrator is always playable the turn before Serendib and yet attacks for the same amount of damage at the same time. Attacking for six on turn 3 or 4 is a lot better than attacking for 3. It applies a lot more pressure on your opponent.

The deck needs enough threats so that it can win fast even if Dreadnought gets StPed and you don't have a MisD handy. Just Serendib and Sea Drake don't do enough by themselves. O-naginata becomes good when there is atleast 12 nondreadnoght creatures you can equip it to.

I will go...
-1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Engineered Explosives

I definately think the 1x Chalice is worth its weight in gold. Being able to set Chalice at 0 and 2 is extremely useful against plenty of matchups. So is setting it at 1 once you resolved the Dreadnought to cut them off of StP.

And like you pointed out, TfK just isn't that good here. The deck doesn't play enough artifacts. Oath is a nice idea. Other options are Fact or Fiction and Foresee. Both let you find the second combo piece.

But overall, I think your 1 Sensei's Divining Top and 1 more Fetchland in place of City of Traitors idea along with 4 Brainstorms is the best route to take. Top is great at getting your combo faster.

Don't forget, Trinket Mage is a shuffle effect too. So it's like you are running 9 Fetchlands.

The deck needs to see blue more consistently, and City of Traitors isn't as important. The deck can't mulligan quite as aggressively as Fairie Stompy could so it's manabase needs to be a little smoother. I may end up cutting two City to more room for more blue lands. Without those cards, Infiltrator is always played one turn earlier than Serendib Efreet and yet deals the same amount of damage at the same time. Attacking for six damage on turn 3 is a lot better than attacking for three.

After those changes, here is what the list looks like...

// Mana
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TS] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
2 [MM] Infiltrator il-Kor
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RV] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
4 [OD] Brainstorm
4 [ST] Stifle
4 [TS] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Trinkets
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SK] Pithing Needle
1 [FD] O-naginata
1 [CK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Weatherseed Fairies
SB: 3 Maelstrom Djinn
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Infiltrator il-Kor
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

I always planned on having a transformational board into Fairie Stompy. It makes your opponent overly cautious with their fetchlands and wastelands. It makes them leave themselves vulnerable to Chalice at 1. And it can force them to play a lot of artifact destruction that does nothing against the 5/6s, 4/3s, 3/4s, and 3/1 shadows swinging at their face. This is why I cut back on how much equipment is brought in from the sideboard.

I really want to find some way to make room for...

+2 Infiltrator il-Kor
+2 Misdirection

Misdirection is almost as good as FoW. It answers both countermagic and removal, helping you pull off your Dreadnought plan.

Alternatively I could also play...

// Mana
9 [TS] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [MM] Infiltrator il-Kor
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RV] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [ST] Stifle
4 [TS] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [MM] Misdirection

// Trinkets
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SK] Pithing Needle
1 [CK] O-naginata
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Weatherseed Fairies
SB: 3 Maelstrom Djinn
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Umezawe's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

It might actually be better. By running basic islands in place of fetchlands, you are not as vulnerable to opposing stifle effects, a serious concern in the countersliver and the mirror match. And you can transform into regular Fairie Stompy postboard much easier. You could also avoid fetchlands while running a 1cc draw effect by playing Serum Visions.

So whenever I get the chance, I want to test Foresee, Fact or Fiction, and Oath of Ghouls in place of Brainstorm in the first list. I always sucked at figuring out which card draw is best for a certain deck. And if any of those cards are better, you could run the fetchless list.

So it would be awesome if you guys could try both lists and post which one you liked better.

It's too bad Dreadnought didn't get errated until after the GP. This list would have dominated in the Hulk-centric metagame.

-1 Trickbind, -1 Stifle, +2 MisD. -1 naginata for +1 infiltrator too. Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Here is why I brought this up: Dreadnought should SHINE in the combo matchup. Much like Negator in Red death, this should be the number one reason to run him, and everything else is just butter. And don't confuse a good matchup with an auto-win. I don't want my fattest fattie to be worse than Flying Men in the matchup where I need a speedy clock, and 'nought will often be exactly that.

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I understand what you're trying to say. But look at it the way i suggested : DREADNOUGHT IS THE ONE AND ONLY CARD that enables you to play the 8 stifle effects MD, which are probably simply the best tools possible against fast combo right now as they're all storm based (even countering a belcher activation isn't useless since they'll have to find another 3 mana to reuse it).

if you think dread is that useless in the combo matchup, then just replace it with something else postboard in those cases. But without him MD, you just CANT run the stifle effects MD, and you lose the best protection possible against those deck (unless you're ready to dedicate 8 slots for them in the board).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Everyone who has ever played Faerie Stompy will tell you the same thing here. Never, EVER, EVER, count on your counters. We simply run too few. Hell, Goblins might have more counters than we do post board. And MisDs are simply too unreliable and conditional even when you draw them.

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You're absolutely right, but this build is quite different from FS. TSH can be answered with a stifle effect (which you have 8 of). Same thing for EE, excepet you also have the possibility to just use your regular counters here.

But yes, Grip is still a pain. Yet, this doesn't change the fact that Dread is still a VERY potent and easy to cast threat, which they DO HAVE to answer, because if they can't, they're dead. i still think it's worth risking going into a krosan grip. if they don't have it, you win, if they have it... you're down one card in the process (two against their one).

I agree they have opposition to throw at it. I just feel that :
-the investment is very low (at most 3 mana and 2 cards)
-the potential reward is huge (you basically win the game)
-the potential drawback is minor (worst case, you're down one card)

Add to this that in a lot of cases where your dread is destroyed you'll be even on mana spent, or up 12 life in the process (thresh can have a fast clock, but still, that should earn you at least 2-3 turns worth of life, which is far from negligible)

Even if the win scenario were to happen only 33 % of the time, I still think the minor drawback of the lose scenario would be worth it.

Very good post.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to argue that Dreadnought doesn't improve the combo matchup when Dreadnought is the only justification for running any Stifle effects in Fairie Stompy the first place, which do improve the combo matchup in a big way. You can't have it both ways.

Goblins isn't too bad a matchup. Yes, goblins has maindeck, albeit Stiflable answers to Dreadnought, but it only has two turns to find them, so there are lots of games where it can't or where you do have a Stifle to spare.

Two turns to find an answer really isn't a lot of time, for any deck. And you have both counters and Stifles to neuter these answers as well.

And postboard, you have everything that Fairie Stompy had against goblins postboard, along with a full playset of Weatherseed Fairies. Where you have the advantage over Fairie Stompy is that those Krosan Grips they took out valuable goblins to make room for are for the most part dead cards.

I hope you change your mind on Infiltrator though. I know the guy can't block (his biggest drawback), but in many other ways, he's comparable to Serendib Efreet but without the lifeloss which kind of makes up for not being able to block.

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

I hope you change your mind on Infiltrator though. I know the guy can't block (his biggest drawback), but in many other ways, he's comparable to Serendib Efreet but without the lifeloss which kind of makes up for not being able to block.

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Yeah, i'll definitely try to playtest it as soon as I find a little time. I have to admit (well, as my previous comments showed...) that i've been having a hard time to see how it could be better than other more "stable" choices (i don't like the idea of topdecking him at all), but seeing how you're still supporting it after numerous weeks, i guess it is worth an actual try.

Yeah, I def recommend trying it and deciding for your self. As far as undercosted evasive blue beaters go, there really aren't many options. But Infiltrator is very solid. 2 mana for an evasive three power creature, with the only drawback of having to wait one extra turn, is something worth running in most colors. I'm curious what you would run in it's place. Keep in mind, it being blue is a huge bonus esp since the list runs Misdirection. And it needs to be a solid clock due to the low number of nondreadnought threats. You want to be able to win pretty easily even without the Dreadnought combo. So Cloud of Fairies and Looter il-Kor just don't cut mustard.

Since there doesn't seem to be too much debate about the list itself, we can focus on the true important task at hand, coming up with a halfway decent name for the deck.

So, you're running a Faerie Stompy-esque deck with 8 Stifle effects maindeck and you need a cheap beater that's better than Infiltrator il-Kor.

Hey, what is that thing I see in the distance? Are we near Las Vegas? Wait, I think I can read what it says...

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/223/58564140hk5.jpg

Ideally, I would have had the room to run both. Both cards were fighting for the 4 slots. If you notice, I have Djinn in the board.

I ultimately went with Infiltrator because it''s cheaper to cast. Fairie Stompy was always 3cc heavy, and seeing as how this build isn't playing Chalice, going for a lower curve seemed like a good place to take the deck.

That said, Maelstrom Djinn is an awesome card, dealing 10 damage, and a lot more with the Stifle effects. So, it definately warrants consideration.

So for now....

-4 Infiltrator il Kor
+4 Maelstrom Djinn

An update, I'm still undecided on Djinn vs. Infiltrator. Djinn deals a lot more damage but it also costs a lot more mana and Infiltrator smoothens the mana curve better.

But more importantly, we REALLY need to come up with a better name for this deck.

The current name for it sucks. And for some inexplicable reason, the only alternative that I can come up with is...

...

Dreadnought is a Trinket! :cry:

P.S. Nihil, how the hell did you make that sign. It looks f**king awesome.

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

But more importantly, we REALLY need to come up with a better name for this deck.

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StomPhD ?
Naughty Faerie ?
Sea-Rex ?
ST-Rex ? (pronounced "stea-rex)
Stifling skies ?
NOUGH' Storm ? (as in "no storm")

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I agree with everything you said. Infiltrator has been incredible. 2 mana for a 3 power evasive beatstick that you can discard to Force in a pinch is fantastic. I can't believe there was so much blowback to running him when the card came out. It's not that big a deal that one suspended on turn one won't do damage until turn 3. A Serendib Efreet played on turn 2 won't do damage until turn 3 either. Infiltrator is lower on the mana curve for the same amount of damage. This is important since you won't see an Tomb/City every game.

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card specs...

Dimir Infiltrator UB

Creature - spirit

unblockable

transmute :1: UB

1/3

look it up, he is just a 1/3... unless equiped.

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

card specs...

Dimir Infiltrator UB

Creature - spirit

unblockable

transmute :1: UB

1/3

look it up, he is just a 1/3... unless equiped.

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Infiltrator il-Kor is what's being talked here.

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

NOUGH' Storm ? (as in "no storm")

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Why this over Nought Storm (as in "not storm"). Seems to me that name makes more sense, although I'd probably spell it Not Storm to make it more obvious.

I was trying to find some ideas for the "Infiltrator/Maelstrom Djinn" slot. At least checking for other options : while the Maelstrom would still have my preference over the Infiltrator, I'm just never entirely satisfied with either of those two anyway.

But first, since there's no clear choice here, the conclusion may well be list-dependent; so here's the one I used :

// Lands
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
5 [CHK] Island (3)
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FUT] Infiltrator il-Kor (?)

// Spells
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [SOK] O-Naginata
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [FNM] Brainstorm

First of all, you might notice the 3 Chrome Moxes instead of the usual 4. The reasoning is simple :
-while I'm usually happy with the first one, I just hate to see a second one.
-the deck as no draw engine (brainstorm is a very potent effect, but it's still not raw card advantage) and is already pitching cards to fow.
So i switched it for a basic island/a fetch for brainstorm.

Same thing basically for the double lands ; i want one, i like two, but three is just useless. and i like having two colored mana, so that i am able to play a creature and keep one blue open for trickbind/stifle/or eot brainstorm. here again, replaced by an island/a fecth for brainstorm.

So with this build, I have three slots left to fill, and I agree the deck needs it to be filled with some damage source. So I have searched for some potential creatures. basic requirements were a power of 3 minimum (to be able to use o naginata), and flying. here there are (note that i haven't tested them yet) :

-Possessed Aven. 3/3 Flying for 2UU that could occasionally turn 4/4. please note that the UU is usually not a problem in my build. Not too sure about this one.
-Chronozoa. He could prove to be very sweet, or not.
-Thought Devourer. 4/4 flying for 2UU with a drawback that seems like it could turn out to be quite minor in this deck. I think this one at least is worth testing, as it won't get more efficient than this.

Note they're all blue, thus being able to be pitched to fow if you so choose.

What do you think ? Is the 4cc too much ? I'd be happy if you could test them too if you think they're worth it.

Believe me when I say, I've tested or atleast considered just about every single blue card that could fit in the slot before Future Sight saw print. The cards you listed are all kind of slow, or do have a pretty significant draw back.

Ultimately, Clould of Fairies, Looter il Kor, Chimeric Idol/Phyrexian Warbeast and Juggernaut turned out to be the only cards worth running. The first two are weak, and since this version has no room for equipment, it doesn't make sense to run them. Juggernaut doesn't have evasion and isn't blue. Thank god wizards finally printed some semi decent blue beaters again in future sight.

Did you tested them with the old FS shell or with this one ?

I wouldn't call my testing extensive at all, but up til now, the Thought Devourer drawback has never been an issue in the twelve or so games i casted it (told you it couldnt be called extensive in any way for now), and i've not found it difficult to reach the 2UU necessary mana to cast it. and it's not like my earlier turns have been wasted either. between brainstorm, casting the dread combo, the twelve 3cc creatures, or keeping mana open to use stifle effects against combo, i've consistently found ways to put the earlier turns to good use already (those ways differ depending on the matchup of course). which also means i've used quite a lot of cards already, and i actually never had to discard because of him until now.

The Dreaded Sky's or Flying Trinket's

Wow, I really like this idea. Frankly, all FS needed was one more strong Beater and the supposed drawback that 'Nought has is making you play 8 cards that are incredibly powerful in the current metagame. Loosing chalice is pretty bad, but the super quick clock might be worth it.

My vote for a new name: Noughty Faeires. Cmon, it is so frickin tight.

Kronicler

Would you ever consider splashing red in this? Burn might help vs goblins (electrolyze comes to mind) as well as speeding your clock. Volcano Hellion + Stifle/Trickbind might be nice too. Just a thought

ParkerLewis, Thought Devourer sounds like it could be a solid option in a build such as yours that cut some two mana lands for additional islands. I have cut 1 City of Traitors from my list for an additional fetchland, but see little reason to cut Ancient Tomb or Chrome Mox (both allow extreme early game explosiveness but with little drawback).

My build can't support it due to the UU in the casting cost, and I'm not convinced that yours can consistently either, but perhaps it could.

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Originally Posted by TheDrunkDwarf

Would you ever consider splashing red in this? Burn might help vs goblins (electrolyze comes to mind) as well as speeding your clock. Volcano Hellion + Stifle/Trickbind might be nice too. Just a thought

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Splashing just makes the deck inconsistent. If you want to play burn, play Psionic Blast. But you are much better off playing undercosted threats that stick around to deal more damage and have to be dealt with in place of one turn use burn spells.

Also, this deck's manabase can't support more than one colored mana in the mana costs. It's designed to consistently get one island into play per game, no more, no less. So if the deck can't support 2UU casting cost cards or 1UU casting cards, how could it support 1UR casting cards like Electrolyze or 2RR casting cards like Volcano Hellion.

I went back to Infiltrator (inspite of the synergy between Stifle and Djinn) because the lower casting cost of Infiltrator often proves to be a huge tempo advantage. First turn Chrome Mox, Island happens often, and having a reasonably menacing threat to cast that turn is very welcome. Djinn made a deck that's already top heavy in the 3cc slot even more top heavy.

Oh, and before someone suggests that this deck like every other aggro deck should be playing Goyf, here's what that would look like.

-4 Island
-1 City of Traitors
-3 Brainstorm
-4 Infiltrator il-Kor

+3 Tropical Island
+3 Flooded Strand
+2 Polluted Delta
+1 Tree of Tales
+4 Tarmogoyf
+3 Berserk

In my very very brief testing, all it did was make the deck horribly inconsistent (even more inconsistent than the original F. Stompy is), and force you to Chrome Mox or FoW away good cards like Sea Drake and Serendib Efreet. Do with that information what you will.

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Here's why I don't like O-naginata in this or any FS build. He can't be attached to the one creature you are guaranteed to have when you get him, and if you have two creatures, you probably aren't fetching equipment. Also, the trample is irrelevant as the only creature that doesn't have evasion or trample is the one that can't hold O-naginata. Consider Bonesplitter.

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Excellent post. It took me a little while, but now I realize just how right you were about Bonesplitter. It's hands down superior.

I've had sooo many games that went...

Turn 1: Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Sea Drake

Turn 2: Trinket Mage Fetching Bonesplitter, City of Traitors, Cast & Equip Bonesplitter to Sea Drake, Attack for 6.

I can't help but smile. :smile:

I updated the list to reflect this.

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

ParkerLewis, Thought Devourer sounds like it could be a solid option in a build such as yours that cut some two mana lands for additional islands. I have cut 1 City of Traitors from my list for an additional fetchland, but see little reason to cut Ancient Tomb or Chrome Mox (both allow extreme early game explosiveness but with little drawback).

My build can't support it due to the UU in the casting cost, and I'm not convinced that yours can consistently either, but perhaps it could.

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Ok, I've had (a little) time to continue playtesting, and for now i have to say that I'm really pleased with the Thought Devourer.
Here's the build again for reference :

// Lands
5 [CHK] Island (3)
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [OD] Thought Devourer

// Spells
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [SOK] O-Naginata
4 [IA] Brainstorm

Up til now, I'm still standing by what I experienced at first :

1) I have no trouble getting to UU by the time I want to cast Thought Devourer.
2) The drawback has still NEVER been significant.
3) One thing I didn't think of : it's really nice to have more than 3 toughness. Suddenly I'm immune to the random Firebolt/Helix (a few aggro decks run these).
4) I don't miss the 4th Ancient Tomb. But I have to admit there are a lot of aggro in my metagame - which are the match ups where I'm least happy to see one.

So I don't know if it's actually the better solution, but I have to say that for now, the Thought Devourer has never dissappointed me, and he convinced me on every contentious point.

On a totally unrelated note, yeah, O-Naginata has basically proved itself useless for the reasons explained before.

So, I have been testing with a similar deck to this. I thas been treating me very well. I had my friend start another thread, but it didn't seem appropriate.

for reference, here is the list.

mana//21
4 wasteland
4 underground sea
2 watery grave
4 polluted delta
1 bloodstaied mire
1 flooded strand
1 island
1 swamp
3 chrome mox

creatures//10
3 dark confidant
3 phyrexian dreadnought
4 trinket mage

spells//29
4 force of will
2 daze
2 counterspell
4 mystical tutor
4 stifle
2 trickbind
3 ghastly demise
1 echoing truth
3 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
1 pithing needle

sideboard//
2 doomsday
1 brainfreeze
1 ideas unbound
1 helm of awakening
3 echoing truth
1 pithing needle
2 tormod's crypt
4 engineered plague


The deck has a rediculously great combo MU, as well as solid MUs against a good % of the field.

Please leave feedback as to how I can strengthen this deck... I will also be involved in a tourney with this exact list this friday. I will lave a report.

It's a very cool list and I wish you luck.

But people are unfairly mistaking this for Dreadnought + Stifle deck.

That's not what it is.

It's Fairie Stompy running the Dreadnought + Stifle engine.

The reason it matters is because while the former is required to play that combo, and to keep Dreadnought in play to be able to finish your opponent off, the latter isn't.

The latter (this deck) retains the exceptional combo matchup, but is not dependent on Dreadnought to win and has won many many games within the first four turns without ever seeing a Dreadnought.

I've heard alot of people talk about how being able to add 8 stifle effects to faerie stompy maindeck would improve its combo matchup. I don't understand why you would possibly need a better combo matchup. You already run chalice which is as good or better than stifle. You also lose the equipment which is the single thing that makes this deck awesome. The question before you is simple:
Lose all equipment and chalice
Gain a card that only works with other cards
The cardinal rule I have found is that cards need to be good on thier own in order to work in a deck. I figured this out when building survival. When you got the pieces together it was great but how well does it perform when it doesn't? Take any deck in the current legacy metagame and it always looks fantastic when everythings coming together but the majority of your draws won't be that way. So it needs to be good on its own

Trust me, the deck works, and works very well.

No, the F. Stompy combo MU wasn't all that. Combo can play around Chalice easy, plus you don't see Chalice every game. Aside from that, all the deck had was FoW. So while it could beat combo, it couldn't boast a very favorable matchup against it. Now it can.

Stifle, Trickbind, and Trinket Mage are all great on their own.

This is the only deck that can consistently cast both Dreadnought and Stifle/Trickbind on the first turn thus putting your opponents on a two turn clock.

This is the only blue aggro deck that runs FoW and can support the cards needed for Dreadnought.

This is the only such deck that has tons of other very solid creatures so that it is not even the tiniest bit reliant on Dreadnought. It can win easily even after your opponent uses up their tutoring and card draw to find the StP they need to deal with Dreadnough asap.

Thus it is by and far the best deck suited to use Dreadnougth.

Just wanted to list what Ive been running since Lorywn came out.

4 Ancient T
4 City of T
4 Chrome M
4 Island
3 Flooded S
3 Polluted D

1 Pithing Needle
2 Ponder/Mulldrifter
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm

4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW

4 Phyrexian D
4 Trinket M
4 Sea D
4 Serendib E

I keep going back on whether to use Ponder or Mulldrifter, and whether to run it as a 3 of with Greaves as a 2 of or vice versa.

The deck feels threat lite without the Infiltrator. :( But there's no point in playing some weak 1/1 or 2/1 flyer here as the deck has no way to equip to pump it.

But Lightning Greaves is absolutely insane. Turn one Greaves, Turn two Dreadnought, Trickbind, Equip, attack with a 12/12 trampler with shroud is incredible and very very easy to pull off.

I urge you to try and comment on this deck.

The list may still need a little tuning though because as I said, the deck feels a little threat lite.

Thinking a little outside the box yields something like this:

Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Trinket Mage
4 Mulldrifter
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

4 disruption, 4 tutors, 4 card draw, 4 game enders

Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Diamond

I added mox diamond and lotus petal here because of the 8 maindeck moons, which make it little easier to get a turn 1 moon, and still generate blue mana afterwards.

Enchantments
4 Blood Moon

Yep, this is pretty good.

Instants
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 Force of Will

The blue spell count is high enough to run FoW, so it's a no-brainer. The 8 stifle effects make bringing dreadnought online easy, but they also prevent people from fetching their basics.

Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Island
4 Snow-Covered Island
4 Volcanic Island

A better configuration of volcanics and basic islands might exist, but you want enough volcanics to guarantee a turn 1 red mana source, and enough islands to have consistent blue sources under your own blood moons. Mox diamond and lotus petal help of course.

Side-Board
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Damping Matrix
3 ?

Chalice and crypt are anti-combo cards to help shore up those match-ups. Damping matrix shuts down so many things it's not even funny, but coincidentally it has no effect on this deck at all (it might even be main deck worthy stopping fetches, survival, aether vial, wasteland, port, equipment, and much more). I'm not sure what the last three side-board slots would be.

I've got absolutely zero playtesting to speak of (since this is just off of the top of my head), but it seems to have some serious potential.

Trust me, splashes absolutely do not work in this deck. I've tried splashing green (for Goyf) and Black (for Negator and a ton of other cards) so many times.

But all it does is make an already inconsistent deck 100% more inconsistent.

So I kindly ask that we please keep the discussion to monoblue. Thank you.

I see that the poll seems to support Ponder.

I definately understand the logic.

Ponder works well with the numerous fetchlands and works to help get your combo pieces turn one rather than making you wait till you have 3 mana for Mulldrifter.

It also searches/filters through more cards to find your combo piece than Mulldrifter.

TO ALL THOSE WHO VOTED "OTHER" ON THE POLL, please post what you think the deck would be better served running instead. I'm working really hard to optimize it so I would love to get some suggestions for new cards to test.

And just to avoid confusion, here's the current list being referred to in the POLL...

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

1 Pithing Needle
2 ???????????????
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm

4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet

The question is, what cards should I be running the ???????? SLOT.

Ideally there's an awesome very strong low cc creature out there like Sea Drake or Efreet that is blue (for FoW) and doesn't have suspend/haste already like Infiltrator il-Kor (so it can abuse Lightning Greaves).

Whatever it is, it absolutely can't be some wimpy ass two power creature. 3 power is the bare minimum as this deck has no Jitte or SOFI to turn small creatures into large ones. Without Jitte or SOFI to lean on, Cloud of Fairies, Looter il Kor and Weatherseed Fairies all suck.

Playing such a creature would keep the threat count high. I just can't think of any.

The second option is to play Ponder (or Mulldrifter), as a card drawer to draw into the other threats. Ponder seems ideal for this purpose.

In theory it could be Jitte, though the deck doesn't have enough creatures to support so much equipment or enough blue to support FoW imo.