[Deck] This Deck Sucks (Another Fish Deck)

This is what I played in the UMTW, scrubbing out day one. Placing fifth on day two. I would elaborate, but this is a deck discussion, not a tournament report.

Land 17

4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins

Creatures 14

4 Trinket Mage
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Dark Confidant
3 Epochrasite

Artifacts 8

3 AEther Vial
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Spells 21

4 Smother
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Predict
2 Stifle
2 Magma Jet

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Sideboard

3 Pyroblast
2 Hydroblast
2 Hibernation
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Scrabbling Claws
4 Duress
1 Pithing Needle

For day two, I made the following changes: -2 Stifle, -2 Predict, +3 Spell Snare, +1 Bonesplitter. Jury is still out on the changes.

Now, what the hell was I thinking?

Trinket Mage: He's amazing. Chances are, when he comes down I can grab an answer to anything the opponent is going to throw my way. Or has already been thrown, etc.

Magus of the Moon: This guy has been gaining popularity as of late, for good reason. Sometimes, the only way I can win is if my opponent stops playing shit . It's effective. Very. Also, swings for two. My deck is packed with shitty dudes.

Dark Confidant: Oh look. Draw Engine. Hot. Low Curve. Sensei's Top. Move along, nothing new here.

Epochrasite: Really? Yeah. He Vials out as a 4/4, is never gone for long, and in his horrible 1/1 form he still chump blocks or carries a Bonesplitter. He is also the biggest guy in my deck. Sometimes. He's cheap, and I can play him when I'm moon-locked.

AEther Vial: I can play guys without using mana, so I can keep countering and Topping or whatever it is I do with my land. Also, helps actually put threats on the table under blood moon.

Sensei's Divining Top: This card does a lot. I have 10 shufflers, Counterbalance, and Bob.

AEther Spellbomb: Trinketable Unsummon. It's in the graveyard hate trinket slot right now. I know it's not graveyard hate, but it at least deals with the reanimator strategies. It's also generally more relevant to board position than say, Tormod's Crypt. At least for the maindeck.

Pithing Needle: Damn, this card is versatile. Stops what it needs to.

Engineered Explosives: Maindeck answer to various non-land permanents.

Smother: I'm not playing white, this happens to be the second-best removal spell in the format.

Counterbalance: This card is so hot/cold. It's either a complete beating or a waste of cardboard. I mean, yeah. Chalice of the void targeting you
is pretty decent.

Force of Will: It's okay. If you like not-losing.

Brainstorm: Best cantrip. Also, I'm running 17 lands, 10 shuffle effects, Bob, and Counterbalance. I guess it works well with those other cards I'm playing.

Magma Jet: Extra removal, plus the interaction with Counterbalance, Bob, and Top.

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Predict: I felt I needed more card draw, since my only advantage engine was emo Bob. Plus, it was cute with counterbalance. I've since changed my mind. I feel the slots were better spent on something that actually could directly affect the gamestate.

Stifle: I love the versatility of the card. However, I rarely ran into situations where it was any better than a pithing needle.

Spell Snare: I think it's better than Predict. It hits more stuff than Stifle. It countered a few Tarmogoyfs for me over the weekend. Boarded out a fair bit, but generally for more relevant cards. ex: out for hydroblast against mono-red.

Bonesplitter: Seems decent. Turns all of my dudes into genuine threats. Not bad to trinket for if I have nothing better to get.

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I'm a bit iffy on the six slots currently occupied by Bonesplitter, Spell Snare, and Magma Jet.

So talk about my deck. Or don't. It's a pile anyway.

How do you exactly abuse Epochrosite in this deck? Do you just hope to play against Landstill and Truffle Shuffle? Please explain that card choice, it looks a little questionable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Epochrasite: Really? Yeah. He Vials out as a 4/4, is never gone for long, and in his horrible 1/1 form he still chump blocks or carries a Bonesplitter. He is also the biggest guy in my deck. Sometimes. He's cheap, and I can play him when I'm moon-locked.

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Tah-dah! That's pretty cool synergy.

I like the idea of splashing red rather than white in a Fish deck. Magus of the Moon definitely needs more love in Legacy.

On that same note, have you considered Keldon Marauders as a way to beef up your team? Sure, it has vanishing, but they deal damage when they hit and when they leave, to. And at 2 mana, it's a perfect fit with a Vial set for Epochrasite (which is uber techy btw). A gatherer search for 3/3s at :1::r: reveals Minotaur Explorer as a decent beater, too. Plus, you get extra style points for Minotaur Advantage.

Do you ever find yourself screwed by a Wasteland? That manabase looks fragile as fuck especially with Counterbalance maindeck and a noticeable lack of Ponder.
-Slay

This deck looks really interessting, because you know, white is gay and stuff...
Some questions:
How have the 17 lands been treating you? Doesn't seem too much, with only the Brainstorms as Cantrips (and the Tops of course).
Drooling Ogre is another possibility for that Epochrasite-slot.
Why no Jitte? Could make the guys a little bigger.
Why Smother over Terminate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

Why Smother over Terminate?

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Pro red sucks.

Getting locked out of being able to cast your removal spell because it's in both secondary colors sucks.

What's with everyones hard on for Terminate lately? I mean... it's not that good. Seriously, what, in this format, does Terminate kill that smother doesn't?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeenieBopper

Pro red sucks.
Seriously, what, in this format, does Terminate kill that smother doesn't?

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Eternal Dragon, Tombstalker, Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth.

The more relevant question might be "what, in this format, is pro-red?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Eternal Dragon, Tombstalker, Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth.

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Guess that means you should play Terror instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Eternal Dragon, Tombstalker, Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth.

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Plus a lot of randomness:
Fledgling Dragon, Exalted Angel, Sutured Ghoul, Arc-Slogger, Wort, Flametongue Kavu, Masticores, Magus of the Tabernacle, Siege-Gang Commander
It's important to kill randomness in Legacy =)

Terror can't kill:

Arcbound Ravager, Bob, Finkel, Nantuko Shade, Phyrexian Negator, Assembly Workers, or Pump Knights.

All strangely relevant.

Maybe you should just run Swords to Plowshares.

Or just stick to Smother because it's better than Terminate, and if the decks that play the other cards actually gets to the point where they can cast them, chances are you've already lost anyways.

Meekstone and Jitte both look excellent in this deck. I'd cut the Jets and the Spellbomb for them.

I had some issues with Meekstone. Primarily, it's a very reactive card. There really isn't any way to take advantage of it. My opponent is in control. Sure, I may catch one or two tarmogoyfs tapped, but that's it until an alpha-strike. If I wanted to really take advantage of it, I would have to run Leonin Bola. I'm not running Leonin Bola.

Jitte is also a little underwhelming. I can't trinket for it, and it's really expensive. Also, if I don't run it, I can pith them without making my own cards useless. It's been a card I've been considering, though.

Terminate isn't a bad choice, though. If I'm under moon, it's strictly better than smother, if I'm not.. I may not be able to reliably cast it. I may try a 2/2 split between terminate and smother, just to see how relevant it is.

I'm not really worried about pro-red guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Eternal Dragon, Tombstalker, Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth.

The more relevant question might be "what, in this format, is pro-red?"

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And Sutured Ghoul!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeenieBopper

Guess that means you should play Terror instead.

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What about Sutured Ghoul?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Terror can't kill:

Arcbound Ravager, Bob, Finkel, Nantuko Shade, Phyrexian Negator, Assembly Workers, or Pump Knights.

All strangely relevant.

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Or Sutured Ghoul!

Okay, I'm done.

Dude. I'm gonna get Therapied to hell before the ghoul comes out. The AEther spellbomb is way better at answering Sutured Ghoul, it makes them find Abeyance.

I'd much rather just shut down their combo, take away their lands, and just slowly grind out the win.

Does the Vial / Epochrasite thing work?

Aether Vial
Card text: At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on Aether Vial.
T: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Aether Vial from your hand into play.

Epochrasite
Card Text: Epochrasite comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it if you didn't play it from your hand.
When Epochrasite is put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game with three time counters on it and it gains suspend.

??

yes.

Think about it this way, if you AEther Vial Phage, do you lose?

Wow, its nice to see your deck changing from the crap you were playing at Eli's tournaments to this pile.

For those 6 slots, how about 3 Spell Snare, 3 Ponder?

Have you tested Thirst for Knowledge? You have so many 'facts, I would think it would be worth considering. I guess 17 land makes it sort of expensive for you, even with vial. It would go in the predict slot I guess, and that sounds more expensive, and maybe only slightly better of an effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ewokslayer

For those 6 slots, how about 3 Spell Snare, 3 Ponder?

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We discussed a lot of cards in those slots. For some reason, he discounted Ponder, although Spell Snare was one of the considerations. I guess removal was important. I suggested Fire//Ice, but taking 4 from Bob is an issue.

I don't have a problem with Ponder, but I'm looking for a card that actually does something in that slot.

Ponder isn't Brainstorm, it doesn't have the same interaction with Counterbalance.

Last time I checked, Ponder won't kill anything.

I'm not discounting it as a cantrip. It's a fine cantrip, sure. I just think there have to be better options.

There's a notable lack of 1G creatures in this deck. Is there a particular reason why that is so?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

I don't have a problem with Ponder, but I'm looking for a card that actually does something in that slot.

Ponder isn't Brainstorm, it doesn't have the same interaction with Counterbalance.

Last time I checked, Ponder won't kill anything.

I'm not discounting it as a cantrip. It's a fine cantrip, sure. I just think there have to be better options.

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How about ghastly demise to kill things, or Thoughtseize?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kirdape3

There's a notable lack of 1G creatures in this deck. Is there a particular reason why that is so?

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There is a notable lack of forests. Your opinion has been noted.

Look. I'm sorry to be the guy who has to point this out to everybody but green still sucks. It has an uncounterable disenchant and a really cost efficient beater.

It doesn't have counterspells or removal or draw or tutoring. You know, the busted shit.


...and I'm not playing 4 colors on 17 land.



..

Ghastly Demise is a decent idea. Looks like I have quite a few cards to playtest in those slots. I'm inclined to have them cost 2 mana for counterbalance ratios, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

There is a notable lack of forests. Your opinion has been noted.

Look. I'm sorry to be the guy who has to point this out to everybody but green still sucks. It has an uncounterable disenchant and a really cost efficient beater.

It doesn't have counterspells or removal or draw or tutoring. You know, the busted shit.


...and I'm not playing 4 colors on 17 land.



..

Ghastly Demise is a decent idea. Looks like I have quite a few cards to playtest in those slots. I'm inclined to have them cost 2 mana for counterbalance ratios, though.

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Red is giving you Magma Jet and Magus of the Moon on a manabase that can't support it. Sounds less than busted to me. I'm pretty sure Green doesn't still suck too.

Magus is a huge beating. I've won entire matches by just playing magus on turn 3 both games. Even if it doesn't lock someone flat out of the game, it generally limits their options.

I have used it to limit the amount of green mana a survival player had available. I've used it to shut down factories so that my men can swing in. It's just good.

I'm with you that magma jet is pretty lackluster. It accomplishes a couple of goals for that slot, so I like it. But it's not amazing.

Red also gets me red-blast out of the board. It's pretty sexy.

If this deck were to run Tarmogoyf, I would laugh. To be perfectly honest, I'm far more worried about Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast in half of my matchups anyway.

A 2/3 for 1G isn't even worth Swording in this format most of the time. That's why green sucks in Death and Taxes - I can get a 2/2 that completely neuters a card or a 2/1 card-drawing machine for the same amount of mana. Oh wait...isn't that exactly what this deck is doing already anyway?

On topic, Terminate is a great card but I would sure hate making sure that two of my three first lands (or possibly the first two lands) were Sea and Volcanic in a deck that only has 9 ways to get one and 11 ways to get the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

Magus is a huge beating. I've won entire matches by just playing magus on turn 3 both games. Even if it doesn't lock someone flat out of the game, it generally limits their options.

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QFT. Magus (or Blood Moon, but Magus has legs) is retarded in the current format. I mean, who cares if you can't play some of your stuff, when they can't play any of their stuff? And the deck has Aether Vial, and colorless beats. It's not a big deal.

Also, speaking of Epochrasite, do you think you need a way to get it into the yard all on its own or do you typically not have a problem with getting it huge?

I'm perfectly happy to play it as a 1/1 and just swing with it. He normally gets joined by some other 2 power guy and it makes a fast enough clock. If they have a bigger guy down, he plays D and finds his way to the yard pretty quickly.

The power he has shrugging off removal can't really be ignored. He just doesn't go away. Unless he takes up agriculture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FakeSpam

There is a notable lack of forests. Your opinion has been noted.

Look. I'm sorry to be the guy who has to point this out to everybody but green still sucks. It has an uncounterable disenchant and a really cost efficient beater.

It doesn't have counterspells or removal or draw or tutoring. You know, the busted shit.

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I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the object of the game isn't to draw more cards than your opponent, or kill more things, or counter more things, or find a specific card. The object of the game is to reduce your opponents life total from 20 to 0. I think you're getting too caught up in the whole "busted stuff" thing. Tarmagoyf takes big freaking chunks out of your opponents life total for a very cheap cost. He'll at least trade with almost anything in the format, and he holds down the fort really well if you're not in a position to be on the offensive.

I understand that drawing cards and countering spells helps to put you in a position to win the game. I'm just saying, maybe you should cut out the middle man.

I think I agree with Edinger. Besides Magus of the Moon (which isn't actually that stellar for me, being either a Gray Ogre or Win the Game), why would I want to play this deck over Threshold?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kirdape3

why would I want to play this deck over Threshold?

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This.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kirdape3

I think I agree with Edinger. Besides Magus of the Moon (which isn't actually that stellar for me, being either a Gray Ogre or Win the Game), why would I want to play this deck over Threshold?

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Actually, Trinket Mage.

@ the whole removal thing... Lightning Bolt??? Ghastly Demise is nice, Smother, Terror, Snuff Out (but -Synergy with Confidant), and the big one, TERMINATE. It is teh good. the only prevalent thing it won't get rid of is Darksteel Colssus, which should not hit the table anyways.