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Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Lotus Petal, and Chrome Mox.
This hand has 2 possible choices, a turn one Warrens for 12, or waiting a turn, hoping for a playable spell, and attempting to tendrils for 20 the second option can be dangerous because of drawing dead and being forced to Warrens turn 2. I'll walk through both ways.
1. Play Petal, Petal, Mox, imprinting Burning Wish, cast both Rituals, and Tutor up the Warrens.
2. Draw. If the draw is any piece of acceleration, your play is Petal, Ritual, Tutor for a new Ritual, Ritual, Ritual, Petal #2, Mox, (Petal, Crit,LED,Mox), Burning Wish getting Tendrils, Tendrils for 20.
In most situations I'd much rather go for the Warrens, because it puts your opponent on FOW/EE/Clasm or lose while the second scenario brings Daze, Stifle and Discard into the equation.
Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Orim’s Chant, Dark Ritual, Cruel Bargain, Lotus Petal and Chrome Mox.
Petal, Ritual, Bargain. Draw into Burning Wish, SSG, LED, Rite. Mox imprinting Brainstorm, Brainstorm into Mox, Infernal, Paradise, Putting back Chant, Infernal. Mox for storm, Paradise, RFG SSG, LED, Rite, Wish-> Tendrils, Tendrils for 20.
Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, Ill-Gotten Gains, Ponder, Lotus Petal, Lion’s Eye Diamond and City of Brass.
Land, Ponder (Land, Land, Wish), Draw Wish, SSG, SSG, LED, Petal, Wish, Warrens for 10.
Lion’s Eye Diamond, Rite of Flame, Simian Spirit Guide, Gemstone Mine, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor, and Infernal Tutor.
This is an easy one. SSG Rite of Flame, Ritual, Land, Ritual, Infernal for LED Number 2 with BBR floating, LED, LED, Infernal number 2, IGG loop for the win.
Gemstone Mine, Undiscovered Paradise, Chrome Mox, Ponder, Diminishing Returns, Dark Ritual, and Ill-Gotten Gains.
In this hand, I attempted to go turn 1 ponder, Turn 2 Dreturns with the ability to float B. I drew about 4 tutors off of Returns and fizzled.
Bryant, I love the "Sample Hands for You" idea. Thanks for the update.
Why is a new thread created? It seems like the Solidarity thread is doing just fine with 100 pages. Also I just made a post I hoped getting some response to and now nobody will look at the other thread anymore:cry: .
Why not simply cut and past that post here? I bet more ppl will be looking at a new, cleaned up thread anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
Ok:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
I made top 8 at the Belgian Championship (129 players) with TES yesterday with 5-1-2. Only lost in T8 from Dragonstompy (main Chalice+3sphere can hurt). The draws were ID's against UWb Landstill and some mono R aggresive Control when I was 5-0-1 anyway. The metagame was really good for me, the most played decks was Loam I think, after that Thresh hybrids and then pretty much anything, including a fair amount of Aggro, much Board Control, and some Landstill.
There was another TES deck with 5-2, and there was one that was 4-0-1 the last time I checked it, but probably lost the rounds after that.
My list was a little different from the one I came in 2nd with at the Dutch Championship. The changes were: -1 Tomb of Urami, -2 EtW, -1 Chrome Mox, -Sb Rough//Tumble, +1 Tarnished Citadel, +2 Ponder, +1 Simian Spirit Guide, +1 Sb Ponder.
The whole decklist:
4 Orim's chant
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
2 Plunge into Darkness
3 Ponder
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
3 Chrome Mox
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished Citadel
Sideboard:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Grapeshot
1 Shattering Spree
1 Ponder
4 Duress
4 Xantid Swarm
I was happy with the changes and the whole decklist except for the Ponder Sb. I knew it wouldn't be very good, but I thought Rough//Tumble was worse. But it's probably a little better, I am still searching for a good wishable card or something that matters when you board it in once.
The reasoning for the SSG was that having double Mox always sucks.
I added the Ponders because it gives you more options and doesn't force you to go for tokens and I found the EtW would often be a dead card.
Because I have 4 Brainstorm, 3 Ponder and 4 Chant I decided to take out Tomb for something that can cast those spells. It was good and I never had a problem with the life, I even Ponderd off it turn 1 against Goyf sligh and it didn't matter at all. Remember you can use for free colorless mana.
I believe this to be the almost optimal list. I can only imagine Cabal Ritual to be a little less good in some metas, because in my meta there is usually a lot of Pikula/Pox/MBAggro. So I would like to hear your opinions and criticisms.
Hey Bryant. I was wondering if you could answer my question on the old thread about sideboarding against dedicated control (Like Landstill...Standstill REALLY hurts). Basically, I want to bring in 4x Pyroblasts and 2x Abeyances, but I can't decide what to brng out.
4 Cabal Rituals and 0 Draw 4s?Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
I don't understand the reasoning for cutting Simian Spirit Guide for Cabal Ritual when the deck has problems with resolving Orim's Chant on the combo turn, which is where Simian Spirit Guide is worthwhile in producing the R for Right of Flame or Burning Wish and where Cabal Ritual is worthless.
I'd rather run 4xTinder Wall instead of Simian Spirit Guide, if there's a problem with Simian Spirit Guide, at least it gives the deck another 1 drop.
How I sideboarded for Threshold in the opening post is pretty much how I sideboard vs. Everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
@Matelml- Why 4 Cabal Ritual and 0 Draw 4's? They're absolutely bombtastic, atleast test them. They're a lot better than Plunge into Darkness. 3 Chrome Mox and 1 Simian Spirit Guide seems weak, along with 11 lands. Test my last list then yours, after that compare weaknesses and strengths. By the looks of it mine will run smoother.
Ok, I'll copy your list and play with it against my friends. Against them I can't test everything but I can play against 4C Landstill, Meathooks, Threshhold, 4C Fish, Solidarity, Elves!, MUC, Loam. Obviously not all the best MU's, but good enough for testing.
The reason I play 4 Cabal Ritual and 1 SSG is that it actually happens enough that I have Threshhold to be relevent cause of my meta and if you play 4 SSG I thnk it will lower your ability to create 9 storm significantly, especially since you can't return it with IGG. It does ofcourse happen I need R so I was already in doubt wether to play 1 SSG/4Cabal or 2 SSG/3Cabal. In the end I opted for the former. Remember I play 1 extra 5C land, which helps and extra Ponder, which also finds colored sources. I understand extra cantrips will slow you down, but I think it's worth it because many times you won't need the speed and then the consistancy is very nice.
About Chant, in most MU's you don't have to Chant during your turn and can use it as a timewalk. However in the other MU's it is very important to play, but these MU's tend to be a little slower so I can usually just wait untill I have enough colored sources, if I don't already. I understand this isn't prefered cause of the chance they will draw more disruption, but it seems to work fine. Again I will try your list. Ofcourse I tried it all before but not that exact configuration, just the ideas apart and now I will try a little more extensive.
About the Draw4's: I tried them briefly, but I think they are not good enough, they are ok, but not great. I played a long time without Plunge, but added them again, because if you play him correctly he is very strong. I usually prefer 1 LED/Dark Ritual or Wish/Tutor over 4 random cards that you need to invest acceleration in. Yes, you will usually win if it resolves, but it's harder to cast and with Plunge I am more certain I will win next turn. Another pro is that it finds Chant and what also happens is these hands that have LED, Plunge + Accel. Then you can make mana, play Plunge, sac LED and go for 1st turn EtW or what happened at the Belgium Champs, ToA for 20 1st turn. Also the lifeloss, is way more relevant with the draw4's cause you usuallu need to pass the turn. I will see, but maybe you can try this configuration too.
Edit: The 3 Chrome Moxes seem fairly obvious to me, it's just always bad to have 2. It's not even important to have 1, so I don't see the problem. People gave arguments against it like "it's a neccesary evil" and "It's vital to be fast enough". That seems like speculation and is pretty hard to argue against. Adding 1 SSG over 1 Mox is just almost always better, except for some lists when you don't feel like being diqualified. So if you are already playng 4 SSG, then I am not sure what to do, I am testing that now.
I also played TES at Belgian Championship, probably the one you saw at 4-0-1, and i ended up 5-1-1, finishing just outside T8 (resistance). My only loss was against landstill and the draw was intentional, but it didn't have the effect I hoped for.Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
I played about the same list as wastedlife, but with dark confidant in stead of ponders and draw4's. I was very satisfied with them, but if I expected less control I would probably play the draw4's.
.
Deathmark I can see, but really Goblin War Strike just seems like win more to me. If you EtW, odds are you have enough Goblins to win anyway. Lots of damage from a spell that costs :r: is pretty nifty, but hardly necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
The thing with War Strike is, that it enables you a faster kill, which sometimes could be needed to outrun opposing creatures or just to kill your opponent before he/she is able to drop EE or Deed. IMO The War Strike is a possible card for the board but not a must play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
I played four tournaments with TES now and my record in matches is 15-2-2 . I´m really happy about it and will continue winning with it :) THe only question i have if the Contract in the SB is really needed cause i only wished it once to outdraw a counter where duress would have done the same job. Are there any options i could play maybe against Discard cause i have to face it 2-3 times per tourney. My current SB is:
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
1 EtW
1 iggy
1 Returns
1 Tendrils
1 Pyroclasm
1 Duress
1 Contract
1 Tranquility
1 SHattering Spree
1 Cave-In
Maybe another Spree? What do you think? How often do you play wish on contract?
NQN
This board looks a little weird to me. Only 2 blasts and a Cave-In in addition to clasm? I think best way here would be replaycing the Cave-In with a blast and if you don't like the Contract at all, a second Spree isn't bad, i did it the same way, because I never wished for it, too. As Bryant already said as a one-of Thoughtseize is better then duress cause of its ability to hit creatures as well, these 2 Life should not be relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
Burning Wish for Contract is one of my most common plays since it's one of the deck's strongest cards. I personally feel that you need them maindeck and sideboard since it allows you to recover against discard and control. It also ups the storm count dramatically so that you don't have to Returns or Ill-Gotten Gains. Playing too many pyroclasm effects in the sideboard is redundant and unnecessary one of these should definitely be a blast. 2 Shattering Spree is weak, if you're going to play more than one the number should be 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
As for Goblin War Strike, I like it in builds with 3 ETW maindeck so that the card could actually be used. But even back then I only used it once every twenty or so games. I really think it's a win more, with Burning Wish for Duress to hit their deed or EE it's somewhat like the same card. Although, I'm using thoughtseize now.
I don't find myself wishing for contract all to often either. I like it though as it's something to board in against discard decks for chant. Its also something you do wish for once in a while. I remember running goblin war strike for about 3 months and not wishing for it once in tourny play or testing.
Hello everyone. I would just like to say the deck is great and I love goldfishing with it!!!
Since Orims chant is way out of my budget I just use 4 duress in its stead. Now may I ask in what ways is chant superior since duress can also bait counters, disrupt combo decks and is a better mox imprint than chant. Also can I ask for other suggestions to the slots dedicated to chant other than duress
More power to T.E.S.!!!
Situation 1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Kokusho
You Duress an opponent who has Underground Sea, Tundra untapped and 2 cards in hand. Both are Counterspell. You take counterspell and attempt to combo out. They still Counterspell a ritual or a business spell.
You Chant an opponent who has Underground Sea, Tundra untapped and 2 cards in hand. Both cards are still Counterspell, but now an opponent can either counter Chant and lose to resolved rituals and business, or let Chant resolve and lose to resolves rituals and business.
Situation 2:
You Duress an opponent and take their only Counterspell. You now cast Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns. Your opponent returns/draws a Counterspell and uses it. You lose.
You Chant an opponent and they use two mana to Counterspell. Now, you cast an Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns. Your opponent now has less mana to cast further counterspells because they were forced to counter chant
Situation 3:
You resolve Duress and see no Counters. You cast Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns and your opponent returns/draws a counterspell. Now you need mana for another Duress and a Duress to go off safely, assuming of course they didn't draw two Counterspells.
You resolve Chant and see no Counters. You can now freely cast Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns without fear of an opponent drawing into something to stop you.
I don´t tink Seize is better than duress because you won´t play Turn 1 Wish at seize just because you might hit a meddling mage and if you do it later they will always play they`re mage b4 you can discard it. I added 2 Clasm because sometimes it happens that i need a sweeper NOW and don`t have the mana to cast wish and clasm but sometimes i just need to kill Gaddock Teegs. I play 2 Blasts because i don´t want to board 6 Cards out against U Control since 9 cards seems enough to me.
NQN
Thoughtsieze is better than Duress because you can hit Cephalid Breakfast combo pieces. Breakfast is a bad match-up you want to do anything you can to improve it. Also, we don't care about Meddling Mage we care about other creatures like Gaddeck Teeg. Here's an example. Land go, Land go. land pitch SSG Burning Wish, Thoughtsieze out Gaddeck Teeg and/or problematic card. Two Clasm effects is redundant and unnecessary and I stand by it. Blast destroy's counterbalance and Meddling Mage, Blast is one of the reasons we don't care about the magi. I'm not going to argue SBing against control it's pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
I got almost all the cards that I need to play this deck. Can you post an updated list for reference?
Just look at the first page, it's a fairly recent list.
In your example,Bryant, the Opponent also got 2 Lands so he will play Gaddock Teeg b4 you will hit it with Seize. But because i love you deck I will add Thoughtseize for the next 70+ Tournament and post my results then :) Do you still play the Extract btw?
NQN
In the example, you're on the play so you have 2 lands to their 1. Nope on extract. After the winter wonderland event tomorrow I'll post the last 2 list I've been using. The list that I got 2nd with at the Comix Zone event and the list from the states event.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
Alright, I ended up 2nd at Comix Zone's end of the year event. Then at the main event of the Winter Wonderland I ended 4-2 (respectable but not good in my eyes), then 5-0 taking first in the side event. I've been messing around with the SB a lot lately, nothing to the maindeck (Besides name changes [For Example: 2 Infernal Contract, no Bargain]).
Sideboard for Comix Zone
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Cruel Bargain
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:4 Thoughtsieze
SB:1 Pyroclasm
SB:1 Shattering Spree
SB:1 Red Elemental Blast
SB:3 Pyroblast
Winter Wonderland Event
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Cruel Bargain
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Thoughtsieze
SB:1 Tranquility
SB:1 Pyroclasm
SB:1 Shattering Spree
SB:1 Red Elemental Blast
SB:2 Abeyance
SB:3 Pyroblast
4x Thoughtseize at all times was just meh, it wasn't needed and barely helped if at all over Chant. I lost a match because I couldn't timewalk with Chant. I also missed the additional Chant effect in Xantid or Abeyance in the sideboard.
I play a 48 players tournaments in paris.
For this tournament, I decide to play TES, deck that I play since quite some time, further to the first post of Wastedlife on the source. I knew already well the mechanics of this kind of deck with IGGy pop whom I had played in tournaments last year.
Then first of all the list:
// Lands
2 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
4 [8E] City of Brass
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
2 [MI] Infernal Contract
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
2 [LRW] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [MI] Infernal Contract
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [IN] Tranquility
SB: 1 [US] Duress
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [U] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroclasm
It is the last list of Wastedlife which seemed to me powerful, capable of hyperbrokens turn 1 and that I played since Christmas. Before, I played with the version with 4 dark confidant who bit very well too. With the time maybe whom this last one would have been better...
Round 1: Mathieu with Affinity
1/I lose the D-roll. The first one is a party of health: Etw to 12 with a hand of departure ITx2, IGG, rite of flame, Chrome-plates mox x2, city. T2, I plays Burning wish for thougseize which removes a mitraine, The ultimate luck for him to survive. 1-0
2/The second is the beginning of my misfortune: I mulligan to 5 because of full hand of tutor or with land / mox. I manage to leave in an ETW in 10 to spare time, but he has atog, 2 orni, mitraine, cranial, a land(ground) blue arto and nexus. He can block and kill me with the orni equiped. Ouch ! 1-1
3/And it restarted for a muligan to 5 (wholesale even reason as the party. I keep a hand which allows me to look for SS to slow down him. He play me a land and an arto lorwin which allows to make mana. In my turn, I crack his both arto, but next he puts follower and leaves too fast. 1-2 begin well...
0-1-0
Round 2: Benoît (kyros) with a BR aggro
1/I loses the D-roll. I leave T3 with 12 gob. He has disto and dark confidant. He bit me very fast with Blood Lust and ends me in my turn 4 in spite of the kicked orim's Chant in his turn 3 with 2 incinerate. (a draw4 bit me too). 0-1 pffff
2/Fortunately, I begin with a magnificent T2 or 3 tendrils at 24 without that he can make something (draw4 and diminishing returns were magic!) 1-1
3 / Apothéose: tendril T1 in 30! 2-1
1-1-0 ( :) the deck operate not so badly)
Round 3: Gilles and his deck helme top.
My dark beast : I already have lost against him and his deck with Cephalid dreadnought breakfast in Pontoise. We were seated at the neibourgh table round 1: we know what we play.
1/And he keeps a hand with 2 EE + counterbalance top... he leaves for combo and kills me T2 or 3. 0-1
I bring in 3 pyroblast, 1 REB and 2 xantid against 2 ponder 2 cabal, and 2 chrome mox.
2 / I have a hand with 2 pyro, 2 ssg, a burning wish a mox and a land(ground). I decide to keep(guard) to have a possibility of leaving for combo. It is to my opinion the bad choice. I would have had to mulligan because leave for combo faster than I. But it was hard : he play lot of free counterspell too. 0-2
1-2-0
Round 4: Franck (Oups!) with POX discard. (bad MU)
1/I lose the D-roll. He begins by duress T1 then hymn T2, then pox. I reset me a hand with one draw4 but loses on rack in spite of ETW at 10 (not possible to go in tendrils). 0-1
2/I leave T3 on an ETW in 16 (I said to myself that that would go with so much). He have two creatures but also scroll which, with funeral charm, botch up to me my gob that I kept(guarded) to defense. And kills me with the nezumi transformed into rack... Tendrils would have been better. 0-2
Even there, my hands were not terrible... So when moreover i am discarded...
1-3-0
I am losing hope. And I fall on Elf that I think of being a good MU.
Round 5: Vincent with elfs.
1/I lose D-roll (still). He puts essence warden T1. I go in combo T1 with returns and I finish to a storm of 9 with Infernal tutor... But ToA is remove from the game and I haven't enough mana to make BW. So worse: I leave on ETW and give him(her) 20 LP. But I lower him in 8 in two turns of attack and after my last attack, the same turn, I tendril in 8 exactly leaves there. 1-0
2/I leave with a diminshing returns but dig that 2 draw4 and I fizzle by drawing twice of boils and by staying at 4 LP. 1-1
3/I have a soft hand which can permit me to leave T3, but he has a broken exit which kills me in combo staff of domination infinity mana, infinity LP + infinity draw up + pfffff 1-2
1-4-0
I am going not to delay to suiscid, but as there is a last round...
Round 6: Gina with elfs (the return!)
1/I lose the D-roll (never luck) and I leave on ETW in 12. I try to restart with gob as to bloqueur, but I fizzle on returns without tutor. The elfs submerges me in spite of 2 of kicked orim's chant to try the topdeck. 0-1
2/I leave on Tendrils in 38 which tears. 1-1 3/She takes out to me 2 null rod but I have Shatering spree with BW. I leave the next turn on Tendrils in 20.
2-1
2-4-0
I finished 35th.
Here is thus one bad tournaments, and I doubtless made errors. I count 2 at least: one against affinity with the spree (I should have waited for a turn) and one against pox when I left for ETW instead of ToA.
Here is a great find from Morning Tide, he's a Windfall! This may of broken TES in half giving it Windfall.
Slithermuse
2UU
Creature - Elemental (R)
When Slithermuse leaves play, choose an opponent. If that player has more cards in hand than you, draw cards equal to the difference.
Evoke 2U
3/3
Just imagine going turn one play a bunch of acceleration, evoke, crack Lion's Eye Diamond in response draw 7. Who isn't getting hard right now? Here's what I'm proposing.
Lands
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished Citadel
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Spells
4 Orim’s Chant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
3 Slithermuse
2 Ponder
1 Infernal Contract
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Cruel Bargain
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Thoughtsieze
SB:1 Cleanfall
SB:1 Pyroclasm
SB:1 Shattering Spree
SB:1 Red Elemental Blast
SB:2 Abeyance
SB:3 Pyroblast
There's a few other small changes in the list also, but I think this card could be the one to push TES to the limit.
Edit: I'm also debating if we want Ponder anymore, or is it better to have Cabal Ritual?
Nice Find!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by wastedlife
What matchups will this card help in? Or is it basically improving every matchup?
Does this card help imrpove the consistency in the deck? It appears that it would help alot because of the chance of drawing more than 4 cards.
I really still like ponder in the deck as you want to be able to find the muse asap but on the other hand cabal ritual helps prior to going off creating a larger difference in hand sizes. It could go either way in which one to cut.
I knew as soon as i saw him that he'd catch on.
I always post over at the STORM Boards, but I forget to post here.
I generally prefer Cabal. My list with Windfall-guy is a little bit different.
But basically it is yours ...
-1 Chrome Mox
-2 Ponder
+3 Cabal Ritual
With all the Draw7-ish effects now, I may re-include the 4th Chrome.
EDIT: Yeah it basically improves every matchup. Your good ones are better because you are faster and your control matchups are better because if you fail at going off ... just draw 7! haaha
How on earth can you take out a Chrome for Slithermuse? The -only- downside of this card remotely whatsoever is that you have to find Blue Mana to take full advantage of him, and Chrome can be a blue source.
I'll be assembling this deck and learning to play it ASAP, by the way. Slithermuse for the win.
EDIT:
Do you still need the maindeck Diminishing Returns with Slithermuse? I don't know a lot about this deck, but I was under the impression that most of the use of Diminishing Returns maindeck was to grab with Infernal Tutor when you had a Lion's Eye Diamond to provide the blue, or rarely if you managed to get double blue with it in your hand. Wouldn't a fourth maindeck Slithermuse be better in both scenarios?
Tarnished Citadel
Really?
Isn't Orchard better?
or a second Paradise
Cabal Ritual is better than Ponder in the games I'm goldfishing with this guy.
I DIDN'T lol, Chrome #4 has been out of my deck for a while now, and actually my win % went up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
But really with muse in, I think it'll be coming back.
No. No no no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewokslayer
Orchard gives them a guy to block your gobs/equip with jitte/sac for therapy.
Paradise gets very murky in a pair, it also can adversely affect your turns when cantripping.
Do you really want to have 2 Draw4's for setup and then additional 2 Muse?
It seems like the deck gets more and more the way, that you need way more mana.
First Ponder for the Setup, then Draw4's including Cabal Rituals (which also costs "1 more") and now additional Muse, cutting the Cabal Rituals again?
What about -1 Draw4, -1 Ponder, +2 Muse?
Muse also let's you draw into blind and also draws up to 4 cards.
Is this new Windfall guy really that much better than Meditate? I mean its not often your opponent will just be sitting there with 7 in hand unless its turn 1, usually they will have 5 cards in hand, 6 if youre lucky, in the first few turns. I can see situations where hed be a draw 6-7, but I can also think of a few where hed draw less than Meditate. Good find either way though.
Aside from City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, and Undiscovered Paradise, what other rainbow lands are there? Is Tarnished Citadel really #4 on the list of rainbow lands?
Rainbow Vale? (snicker)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Sadly I think it might be.
He can also be played turn one in a pinch without going off, whereas doing this with Meditate is a risky idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
I think the "cards in hand" drawback is interesting, as it promotes slightly altering the deck for speed to take full advantage of it. It's worth noting that Diminishing Returns can refill your opponent's hand in a pinch (This occurred to me after I suggested cutting the maindeck one, but I'm still not sure, being kind of new to the deck), letting you chain together multiple draw 7's if you have the mana.
Also, I agree with Wastedlife that with this guy, more mana acceleration is a good thing.