Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
RoosterCocoa, Barbarian Ring, Shivan Gorge, Tranquil Cove, River Delta GT43
dte(TO), change of heart, tarnished citadel, icatian store, Varchild's war-riders, GT480
The closer I get to winning the easier it is for you to win, but you start with 4 less life than me since you need to cast War-Riders to not lose. I think you always win if you cast War-Riders when you have 6 life and I have 7, as you can easily have 10 counters on Icatian Store by then, which allows you to cast War-Riders and cast Change of Heart with buyback 3 times, allowing you to get 3 attacks with War-Riders without me being able to attack you with tokens. I would need 5 turns to reduce you from 3 to 0 with Shivan Gorge, so you can kill me in this scenario. Since I can never take your life total low enough to hit this point, you have as much time as you want to build counters on Icatian Store, so eventually you can just kill me from 21. LL
FTW, Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600
You can easily attack once to prevent me from winning, since it only costs 8 mana in total. Two attacks just costs you 3 more, so that is also very doable. This means if you immediately play Civilized Scholar and Helm of the Gods, and equip Helm, if I ever bring you to 2 life, I will have 3, and so you can get in 2 attacks before I can even draw the game. This means with the setup of Civilized Scholar with Helm equipped, you can store mana for as long as you want and then win, since if I try to win it just makes it easier for you. LL
Reeplcheep, Saprazzan Skerry, Mirrodin’s Core, Impatience, Aura Barbs GT: 13
This is the target deck I beat. WW
Symbi, Timberland Ruins, Dwarven Ruins, Impatience, Remove Enchantments, GT:13
You can't win, but you can deal 2 damage to me and the cast Remove Enchantments, which means I can't either. DD
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon Mage-Ring Network Doubling Cube Fall of the Titans
If I try to win, it just makes it easier for you. LL
Wrath of Pie, Lava Tubes, Fungal Reaches, Flailing Manticore, Phage the Untouchable, GT: 13
You store up counters until you can keep me from killing the Manticore and then kill me in one attack, then execute your plan. If I try to win, it just means you need fewer counters to kill in one hit. LL
BirdsOfParadise, Aura Extraction, Bog Wreckage, Impatience, Remote Farm
You can't win, but can draw by dealing 2 damage to me with Impatience then casting Aura Extraction to remove it from the battlefield. DD
Dooey, Jötun Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counselor
Assuming the GT that silkster calculated is correct, you are faster than me. Furthermore, even though me reducing your life total reduces the number of counters you can put on the Grunt, it also reduces the amount of damage you need to deal so you always kill me in one hit. LL
jfb1337, Dwarven Hold, Reito Lantern, Brass's Bounty, Bolas's Citadel
I easily win before you can activate Citadel. WW
Asthereal, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin
Rod of Ruin quickly reduces my life total to less than yours, so I can only wait for you to win. LL
GoblinSmashmaster, Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher GT177
You deal 2 damage quickly enough that I can't even get a draw, so you win eventually. LL
Silkster, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Flailing Manticore, Maniacal Rage
I can't kill the Manticore with Maniacal Rage on it, so you easily kill me. LL
4W 4D 16L = 52
A very good score, which feels a bit strange since I had no ideas and ended up just going with a worse version of the best deck from last week.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
FTW: Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600
I submitted this because I got banned out of Naked Singularity+Broodstar last week (much better deck). This is a cheap imitation, and a risky choice after Flailing unban, but I wanted to play it before someone realized Reality Twist escaped the slow cumulative upkeep ban. I don't understand why this is legal but Sustaining Spirit needed a ban.
1. dte(TO): I'm slower and really can't win through Change of Heart + mana. LL 6-0
3. Reeplcheep: That was my target deck. WW 0-6
4. Symbi: That was my target deck. WW 0-6
5. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Way faster than me. LL 6-0
6. RoosterCocoa: Unlike the mighty Broodstar, I can deal 1 damage fast enough to disrupt you. WW 0-6
7. Wrath of Pie: Clever build. You store mana slower, so around turn 1000 I can kill Manticore while winning. WW 0-6
8. BirdsOfParadise: That was my target deck. WW 0-6
9. Dooey: You can sequence to go above 20 life, so I am even slower than 600 turns! LL 6-0
10. jfb1337: You don't self-damage so I'm slower. LL 6-0
11. Asthereal: Can't win through Mental Misstep!! LL 6-0
12. GoblinSmashmaster: Goblins smash! LL 6-0
13. Silkster: Hypergenesis is "may" so I can hold back Reality Twist and win. WW 0-6
36 points (12 loss, 0 draw, 12 win)
Mirroring the target deck was very strong this week, with most people picking Impatience as their deck to beat. Luckily GT600 lost to almost everything other than Flailing and Impatience.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
I submitted this because I got banned out of
Naked Singularity+
Broodstar last week (much better deck). This is a cheap imitation, and a risky choice after Flailing unban, but I wanted to play it before someone realized Reality Twist escaped the slow cumulative upkeep ban. I don't understand why this is legal but
Sustaining Spirit needed a ban.
I really miss Asthereal as the organizer.
(Also, the flailers should never have been unbanned.)
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Wrath of Pie, Lava Tubes, Fungal Reaches, Flailing Manticore, Phage the Untouchable, GT: 13
Exploiting slow storage lands to demonstrate that dte screwed up unbanning flailers. (silkster was yet again the best flailer, but I would be disappointed if that didn't happen.)
dte(TO), change of heart, tarnished citadel, icatian store, Varchild's war-riders, GT480 - LL
FTW, Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600 - LL
Reeplcheep, Saprazzan Skerry, Mirrodin’s Core, Impatience, Aura Barbs GT: 13 - WW
Symbi, Timberland Ruins, Dwarven Ruins, Impatience, Remove Enchantments, GT:13 - WW
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon Mage-Ring Network Doubling Cube Fall of the Titans - LL - Doubling Cube is hilarious.
RoosterCocoa, Barbarian Ring, Shivan Gorge, Tranquil Cove, River Delta - WW
BirdsOfParadise, Aura Extraction, Bog Wreckage, Impatience, Remote Farm - WW
Dooey, Jötun Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counselor - LL
jfb1337, Dwarven Hold, Reito Lantern, Brass's Bounty, Bolas's Citadel - LL
Asthereal, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin - LL
GoblinSmashmaster, Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher GT177 - LL
Silkster, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Flailing Manticore, Maniacal Rage - WW - Maniacal Rage is definitely on-flavor.
14l = 42 points
Impatience will be gone at least.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
dte(TO), change of heart, tarnished citadel, icatian store, Varchild's war-riders, GT480
WW
FTW, Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600
WW
Reeplcheep, Saprazzan Skerry, Mirrodin’s Core, Impatience, Aura Barbs GT: 13
WW
Symbi, Timberland Ruins, Dwarven Ruins, Impatience, Remove Enchantments, GT:13
WW
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon Mage-Ring Network Doubling Cube Fall of the Titans
Look at this idiot who had to be told that Supression Field would not only turn off flailers but also turn off storage lands so he switched to a deck he didn't understand could win in like half the time he planned for. Only needs 15 mana, but somehow when I built it I thought I needed like 45. SO shame on me for second guessing: Like half of you used the Original storage lands anyways which don't care about Suppression Field, and wouldn't have been able to beat any of the impatience decks.
RoosterCocoa, Barbarian Ring, Shivan Gorge, Tranquil Cove, River Delta
WW
Wrath of Pie, Lava Tubes, Fungal Reaches, Flailing Manticore, Phage the Untouchable, GT: 13
DD on T13 when you cast Phage I only have 12 counters. That's 11+1 Red Dragon Mana. 2 for Cube (9+1) 3 to activate (6+1) which isn't enough to kill you. (13+1. Surge-cast Fall for 12. You live)
BirdsOfParadise, Aura Extraction, Bog Wreckage, Impatience, Remote Farm
Another Impatience deck another deck I targeted
Dooey, Jötun Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counselor
WW My math says you need 16 turns. That's 1 to untap, 13 to store, You need to kill Ajani twice, don't you?
jfb1337, Dwarven Hold, Reito Lantern, Brass's Bounty, Bolas's Citadel
WW
Asthereal, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin
WW
GoblinSmashmaster, Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher GT177
WW
Silkster, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Flailing Manticore, Maniacal Rage[/QUOTE]
WW This is actually closer than I thought. If you had one more turn you'd have killed me before I could pay to kill the Manticore.
2 points. Take THAT illegal deck submitters!
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrath of Pie
Double hilarious: I think it can't beat you "powering" out Phage.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoblinSmashmaster
+6 pts vs Dooey
+0 pts vs jfb1337
By my math Dooey has GT21
T10 Cast Jotun Grunt & Codex Shredder [5 storage left]
T11 Grunt dies. Sacrifice Shredder to return Grunt [0 storage]
...
T17 6 storage counters
T18 Cast Ajani +2 [1 storage, 7 loyalty]
T19 +2 [2 storage, 9 loyalty]
T20 Cast Jotun Grunt. -9: +20 counters
T21 Pay upkeep returning Shredder & Ajani. Attack with 24/24.
Silk's line does not work because Ajani cannot -9 without a creature to target. Due to all the targeting requirements the order must be Grunt -> Shredder returning Grunt -> Ajani -> Grunt & -9 Ajani -> Grunt returns Shredder & Ajani. This way is faster anyway. Lethal on T21 as long as Dooey is at 16 life or higher.
jfb1337 has GT225
Needs 21 Treasures: 3 to cast Bolas + 18 for 2 Bolas activations (also sacrificing Bolas & Reito).
11 turns each for the first 20 Treasures (store 10 mana, then cast Brass Bounty & put on bottom)
7+2+3=12 more red mana to store to cast Reito, Bolas, and the last Treasure. 1 turn casting them all & 1st Bolas activation. 1 turn for 2nd Bolas activation. 1 turn playing tapped land.
20*11 + 12 + 3 = 225
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Double hilarious: I think it can't beat you "powering" out Phage.
Although if you look at the manabase more closely, Phage the Untouchable actually turns out to be Phage the Uncastable.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrath of Pie
Exploiting slow storage lands to demonstrate that dte screwed up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrath of Pie
I really miss Asthereal as the organizer.
He was definitely doing a better job, but I would think that was uncalled for.
dte(TO), change of heart, tarnished citadel, icatian store, Varchild's war-riders, GT480
Me, taking the wrong deck :/ I should have kept the one that was losing to impatience.
FTW, Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600
0-6, you are better than me at playing slow.
Reeplcheep, Saprazzan Skerry, Mirrodin’s Core, Impatience, Aura Barbs GT: 13
0-6, I designed to beat impatience.
Symbi, Timberland Ruins, Dwarven Ruins, Impatience, Remove Enchantments, GT:13
0-6, idem
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon Mage-Ring Network Doubling Cube Fall of the Titans
6-0, losing to this.
6
RoosterCocoa, Barbarian Ring, Shivan Gorge, Tranquil Cove, River Delta
0-6, I beat that.
6
Wrath of Pie, Lava Tubes, Fungal Reaches, Flailing Manticore, Phage the Untouchable, GT: 13
0-6.
6
BirdsOfParadise, Aura Extraction, Bog Wreckage, Impatience, Remote Farm
0-6
Dooey, Jötun Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counselor
2-2. I cannot beat Ajani, neither can you beat change of heart
8
jfb1337, Dwarven Hold, Reito Lantern, Brass's Bounty, Bolas's Citadel
6-0. You can use riders tokens to kill raiders.
14
Asthereal, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin
6-0. Mental misstep >> weathercock.
20
GoblinSmashmaster, Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher GT177
6-0. Every damage you deal me make me lose 4 turns to get an additional change of heart.
26
Silkster, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Flailing Manticore, Maniacal Rage
0-6. I can kill that manticore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrath of Pie
Impatience will be gone at least.
Why? It still as bad a card as it was. It scored well this round only because it is bad enough that it ended up the target deck, alongside two decks that were near unbeatable. So everyone played to beat it and copycating it turned out to be a good choice.
That was definitely partly a mistake of mine, I should have proposed other decks as target decks. Still, some interesting choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
I submitted this because I got banned out of
Naked Singularity+
Broodstar last week (much better deck). This is a cheap imitation, and a risky choice after Flailing unban, but I wanted to play it before someone realized Reality Twist escaped the slow cumulative upkeep ban. I don't understand why this is legal but
Sustaining Spirit needed a ban.
The reasoning is that similarity / broodstar and spirit / pump are 2-cards, while twist requires three and is thus harder to play alongside a trump card. Maybe it is a flawed logic, but here it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jfb1337
Why is not everyone's GT listed?
Mostly because I receive submissions without it, or that it isn't on the same line as the deck.
Ideally, there should be a line in your PM to me with:
username, card1withtags, card2withtags, card3withtags, card4withtags, GTxxx
Like this I just copy paste this line.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
dte(TO), change of heart, tarnished citadel, icatian store, Varchild's war-riders, GT480
I am faster than you. LL, 0 points.
FTW, Saprazzan Cove, Reality Twist, Helm of the Gods, Civilized Scholar, GT 600
I am faster than you. LL, 0 points.
Reeplcheep, Saprazzan Skerry, Mirrodin’s Core, Impatience, Aura Barbs GT: 13
I cast spells. LL, 0 points.
Symbi, Timberland Ruins, Dwarven Ruins, Impatience, Remove Enchantments, GT:13
I cast spells. LL, 0 points.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon Mage-Ring Network Doubling Cube Fall of the Titans
Seems like you are faster than me. WW, 6 points.
RoosterCocoa, Barbarian Ring, Shivan Gorge, Tranquil Cove, River Delta
I am faster than you. LL, 0 points.
Wrath of Pie, Lava Tubes, Fungal Reaches, Flailing Manticore, Phage the Untouchable, GT: 13
I eventually make enough mana to kill manticore. LL, 0 points
BirdsOfParadise, Aura Extraction, Bog Wreckage, Impatience, Remote Farm
I cast spells. LL, 0 points.
Dooey, Jötun Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counselor
It me. 0 pointd.
jfb1337, Dwarven Hold, Reito Lantern, Brass's Bounty, Bolas's Citadel
Reito Lantern means I can't keep grunt alive and never attack. WW, 6 points
Asthereal, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin
Mental misstep counters codex shredder. WW, 6 points.
GoblinSmashmaster, Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher GT177
I am faster than you. LL, 0 points.
Silkster, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Flailing Manticore, Maniacal Rage
I eventually make enough mana to kill manticore. LL, 0 points
Seems like 18 total.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dooey
dte(TO),
change of heart,
tarnished citadel,
icatian store,
Varchild's war-riders, GT480
I am faster than you. LL, 0 points.
...
Asthereal,
Saprazzan Cove,
Mental Misstep,
Envelop,
Rod of Ruin
Mental misstep counters codex shredder. WW, 6 points.
Against me, I do not think you can beat change of heart, so 2-2?
On the other hand, I do think that you beat Asthereal 0-6, as you do not need codex to resolve, you can just attack with a big jotun (and anyway jotun recycle your codex).
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dte
Wow, I forget change of heart can fog my attacks too. I guess I have 20 points.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dte
you do not need codex to resolve
Right. I actually missed a line in my own deck. Oops. Yeah this is right.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silkster
Reeplcheep,
Saprazzan Skerry,
Mirrodin’s Core,
Impatience,
Aura Barbs GT: 13
WW against the limited mana deck.*
*Which deck does this beat? It loses to Frenzied Fugue + Warping Wail. It loses to Cursed Scroll. Against the Impatience + Power Artifact deck, if you play out Impatience, then the opposing deck waits until the life totals are 2-2 before casting their own Impatience, and you can't live through your turn.
This question still has not been answered.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Symbi
This question still has not been answered.
It does appear my goldfish was not as well trained as silkster’s and my deck is illegal.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reeplcheep
It does appear my goldfish was not as well trained as silkster’s and my deck is illegal.
I really love this phrasing. And if only I'd had a better trained goldfish last round!
This round has certainly had its share of chaos, sometimes banning the targets decks or not, sometimes being whole decks and sometimes just strategies, and the inclusion of 4x Wastes. I appreciate the ambition to have a backbuild season and the difficulties that arise. I've enjoyed these rounds with the exception of my own unfortunate mistake.
The plan is for this season to be 8 rounds and for me to host the next season. So we're almost done here, though I can't guarantee how smoothly I'll be able to handle things.
I'm also still looking for what the season should be. My leading candidates are WUBRG and a Storm Season callback (you must lose to a given deck, probably arbitrarily decided at first, and then possibly taking the lowest performing deck(s) as target decks in future rounds).
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dte
Mostly because I receive submissions without it, or that it isn't on the same line as the deck.
Ideally, there should be a line in your PM to me with:
username, card1withtags, card2withtags, card3withtags, card4withtags, GTxxx
I completely missed the GT thing. Perhaps you decided upon that when I was on holiday.
So I never added it to my decks.
Can someone explain it, or link a post where it's explained what it is exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dte
This deck is sick, by the way. You have to tick up the storage land for like a hundred Change of Hearts with buyback before you can cast the War-Riders. Very crafty, regardless of how unhappy you are with it. :smile:
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silkster
I'm also still looking for what the season should be. My leading candidates are WUBRG and a Storm Season callback (you must lose to a given deck, probably arbitrarily decided at first, and then possibly taking the lowest performing deck(s) as target decks in future rounds).
WURBG looks quite different to everything we played, so sounds pretty cool.
I had thoughts of an alternating backbuild/callback season (have to beat the target deck and lose one round, then be beaten by the target and win the next).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silkster
This round has certainly had its share of chaos, sometimes banning the targets decks or not, sometimes being whole decks and sometimes just strategies, and the inclusion of 4x Wastes. I appreciate the ambition to have a backbuild season and the difficulties that arise. I've enjoyed these rounds with the exception of my own unfortunate mistake
Great you like it! I hope the last two rounds will be less messy. I should have kept automatic temporary ban of all cards in target decks, maybe I got too annoyed of my own city of brass mistake.
But the season was definitely harder to organize than I thought it would be!
Congrats to Asthereal to make it looks smooth and easy ;)
Speak of the devil..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asthereal
I completely missed the GT thing. Perhaps you decided upon that when I was on holiday.
So I never added it to my decks.
Can someone explain it, or link a post where it's explained what it is exactly?
It is GT for "goldfish turn", the turn at which you win vs 4 x wastes.
It is in the OP, and was here from the beginning, but was not used much when no one was building decks that could actually beat a goldfish :/
Now that we have to,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asthereal
This deck is sick, by the way. You have to tick up the storage land for like a hundred Change of Hearts with buyback before you can cast the War-Riders. Very crafty, regardless of how unhappy you are with it. :smile:
Thanks! I thought it cool too, and that was the trouble: then I wanted to play it, rather than the better deck :/
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
I was also impressed at the Varchild’s War-Riders deck! I couldn’t figure out a way to make that card work. Change of Heart is clever.
Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season
So, with the results in we can start R7!
For R6:
5,3 Symbi
5,3 BirdsOfParadise
4,7 RoosterCocoa
4,4 silkster
3,8 Wrath of Pie
3,3 FTW
2,4 dte (TO)
2,2 jfb1337
1,6 GoblinSmashmaster
1,6 Dooey
0,5 Asthereal
0,0 Reeplcheep
0,0 FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Overall season:
23,1 BirdsOfParadise
22,1 Symbi
20,1 Silkster
19,5 Wrath of Pie
18,7 RoosterCocoa
14,8 FTW
13,2 Reeplcheep
13,1 jfb1337
12,8 dte (TO)
12,6 GoblinSmashmaster
10,8 Dooey
9,3 FourDogsinaHorseSuit
8,6 alphastryk
6,6 Asthereal
2,9 Raketenudo
Bans: no permanent change. This round was a bit of a mess because only one of the target decks was actually beatable, and that it was possible to copycat it. Sorry, that's on me!
But temporary ban on the 16 cards of the target decks (so they will be legal on R8).
Decks to beat for R7:
Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher
Joten Grunt, Codex Shredder, Icatian Store, Ajani, Wise Counciler
Sapazzan Cove, Mental Misstep, Envelop, Rod of Ruin
Doubling CUbe, Crucible of the Spirit Dragon, Mage-Ring Network, Fall of the titans
I submitted a deck, so R7 is open! OP has been updated.
On the other hand, the deadline is not next Tuesday, but Tuesday October 4th at 19h CEST.