Mono-Blue Living End

I'd like to port the mono-blue living end deck that's made a recent splash in Modern (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-ub-43908) to Legacy.

Mono-Blue Living End (MULE)

//Creatures (12)
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
//Spells (22)
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
//Enchantments (4)
4 As Foretold
//Lands (22)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Wasteland
7 Island
3 Tolaria West
//Sideboard (15)
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Field of Ruin
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Restore Balance
3 Faerie Macabre
3 True Name Nemesis


For those unfamiliar with the combo, As Foretold allows you to play Visions and Living End for free immediately, bringing back the various cyclers for a fast clock.

The shell combines the features of the Modern deck, along with cards from the legacy old Mono-Blue Control decks. MUC has always been a fringe contender, just like every other deck that can consistently cast Force of Will, and adding a more reliable sweeper in the form of Living End helps to shore up it's main problem: Resolved Creatures. That really helps against the aggro control decks, while the card drawing of Ancestral Visions helps keep you ahead of other control decks.

The sideboard allows the deck to board into more of a land destruction package against Miracles/Lands with Crucibles and Field. Unlike previous MUC builds, Back to Basics is out sense it's too slow against the aggro matchups and it doesn't feel like it does enough against the control decks. Nimble Obstructionist is also more of a metagame call, although it's great in those control matchups and can even help force a living end through a Chalice on 0.

TNN, Restore Balance and Shackles combat more traditional aggro decks like Eldrazi/Czech, hopefully buying time to sweep with Living End or Balance. None of these are great solutions to Thalia or Deathrite, so it's something to keep testing. The graveyard package is also really important against reanimator and dredge, sense Living End is just terrible there and those match ups can be rough.

It's possible that the deck wants to move toward a more combo route, using Sol lands to play the As Foretold earlier, however I just don't think that's optimal when Living End is your payoff. Living End really requires some cycling to happen first (which is hard if your hand can't produce U on turn 1) and the setting up early counterspells is important. It's also possible that the deck wants to splash a color. Of those options, I'd like to try a build splashing Red possible for Burning Wish and Pyroblasts/Bolts out of the sideboard.

I'd love any feedback or for others to test.

How is this deck better than Show and Tell? There’s are many reasons:
-Same cost of card for less pay off
-Susceptibility to abrupt decay
-DRS eating your creatures in grave


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Originally Posted by TTX

How is this deck better than Show and Tell?

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This is really trying to be more of a control deck than a fast combo deck. Show and Tell can fall apart to the disruption of its key cards and it fails to go off it can have a hard time rebuilding. This deck is really aiming to be able to grind out a longer game, with Ancestral Visions recouping Force of Will card disadvantage, wastelands for disruption and tons of cantrips for redundancy.

DRS is a problem, but it's slow and you can play around it by holding a few cyclers until you're ready to living end. Abrupt Decay doesn't disrupt the combo, because you can cast As Foretold and then immediately use it to cast Living End before the opponent has priority. It might not stick around for long after that, however that's really not going to help if you've managed to reanimate some fat while killing multiple creatures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wobbles The Goose

This is really trying to be more of a control deck than a fast combo deck. Show and Tell can fall apart to the disruption of its key cards and it fails to go off it can have a hard time rebuilding.

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There is little reason to play a deck with the same curvature as S&T (all variants) that does not win immediately. Added, bonus, no graveyard dependency...

Seems like your justifications should steer you toward a Standstill archetype. It’s tempting to homogenize all the formats, and if this is what you can do to play Legacy, great. Play it, all I’m saying is that it’s clearly inferior to the existing decks of similar ccmc distributions and color.

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No thought scour?
You should also add a green splash for ground seal (which I would main because drs is everywhere) you've got 10 fetches. You can swing it.

I played a deck like this a while back, but rather than playing cantrips and cheap counters, I opted for ancient tombs, chrome moxen, and chalice of the void, Jace, the Mind Sculptor also played well in my deck, as did search for azcanta (any idea why the modern build doesn't play search?). Just some ideas from my little bit of experience with a similar archetype. Anyway, I always enjoy innovation in legacy, so good luck with your project!

I think you need a md way to deal with Drs. In mono blue possibly threads of disloyalty?

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Originally Posted by kinda

I think you need a md way to deal with Drs. In mono blue possibly threads of disloyalty?

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Entrancing Melody is probably better.

Here are some ideas, some stay mono blue some don't. I'll edit this post when I get the chance for more discussion of said cards, and possible add some. If someone could pm me how to do "spoilers" I could also make this take less space.
(Blue)
Standstill : you're a cycling deck and control deck, both of those aspects play around standstill's drawbacks. They play a spell, you let it 'pop' then counter their spell if needed.

Drifting djinn: another cycle creature, 5/5 flyer but has a cumulative upkeep and costs double to cylcle it.

Arcane laboratory: if you add more cyclers this'll make sense to include because you'll have less need to cast spells then your opponent. If you run even it just as a 1 of and run enlightened tutor it doubles as storm and elves hate.

Mana maze: has a similar effect as arcane library but has several advantages and disadvantages.

(White)
Enlightened tutor: this finds as for told either at the end of your opponents turn so you draw it. Unlike other decks you can consistently cast the card you're getting on the turn you cast it due to the cycles.

(Artifacts)
Mox diamond

Lotus petal

Chrome mox

Mox diamond

Mox opal

(Lands)
Ancient tomb

City of traitors

Seat of synad

One of the big advantages of the Modern-version is the ability to play a mono-blue control deck when the combo isn't desirable for whatever reason. That doesn't feel that strong with this list. More importantly, I definitely think some Legacy cards need to be solved though:
- Chalice of the Void: Much more common in Legacy than in Modern, Chalice at 0 is backbreaking and free. I think you need some broader artifact removal than a single Echoing Truth; perhaps artifacts, perhaps spells, whatever, you need something.
- Deathrite Shaman: As alluded to earlier, this card is quite painful and one of the main reasons Legacy graveyard decks are at an all-time low. It doesn't stop you but it does make the Living End plan less amazing. I do think you need some tools other than Living End to interact with creatures as a consequence.
- Ensnaring Bridge: It's played a fair bit in the format due to the existence of Show and Tell. As above, some anti-artifact effects seem necessary.
- Non-creature decks: This mostly makes the Living End plan far less powerful since instead of being wrath + threat it's just a threat. The gameplan should be structured so that you make up for the lack of utility from Living End vs. decks like Storm, Lands, Omnitell, Burn, and to lesser extent Sneak and Show (and a myriad of lower tier decks). The current build is actually pretty good in this sense, being high on permission and still packing a reasonable clock, but I'm not sure this can be maintained while solving the other problems.

In short, I think the deck needs more ways to solve artifacts though I'm not sure what would be a good way of going about that. Splashing red for e.g. Ingot Smasher, perhaps? In Legacy, splashing is much easier than in modern. I also think the deck needs to divert some of its gameplan to being able to deal with creatures outside Living End. This is mostly an issue with deckspace.

Those are good points. Repeal is also an answer to chalice for 0 (or bridge), and ingot chewer is an interesting idea for a red splash. Wasteland also helps to fight DRS sense those decks rarely run Forests. Aggressively hitting Trops and not needing to target a specific creature helps.

That said, I think Engineered Explosives are a must for the deck. It can be fetched with T West and dodges chalice like a champ. Probably over one of the bounce spells.

The disruption package seems like a sticking point. I could see a splash for a setup more like Miracles:

12 As Foretold/Living End/Ancestral Vision
12 cycling creatures
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives

Then playing with the mana base to fit in the white (maybe just copy Miracles and splash red for the board)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wobbles The Goose

Those are good points. Repeal is also an answer to chalice for 0 (or bridge), and ingot chewer is an interesting idea for a red splash. Wasteland also helps to fight DRS sense those decks rarely run Forests. Aggressively hitting Trops and not needing to target a specific creature helps.

That said, I think Engineered Explosives are a must for the deck. It can be fetched with T West and dodges chalice like a champ. Probably over one of the bounce spells.

The disruption package seems like a sticking point. I could see a splash for a setup more like Miracles:

12 As Foretold/Living End/Ancestral Vision
12 cycling creatures
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives

Then playing with the mana base to fit in the white (maybe just copy Miracles and splash red for the board)

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Anyone see the list from the mkm Rome event that top4d?
Adding the urborg, 2 bog, sunken ruins and the drowned catcomb really improves it's versatility. Gives access to collective brutality out of the board which has been an all-star.

Actually unless you have a wasteland your EE can never kill a chalice on 0. So that's awkward. Also Since DRS is so prevalent in legacy I feel like you want ways to combat it. Either maindeck Needle, Some number of Non Force of will cheap counters (daze?), or maybe now that we have Silent Gravestone. All that said I like the thought of this deck. I do like the thought of red splash for BWish. Gets Living End, Can get Pyroclasm, and can find some sort of permanent hate.

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

You should also add a green splash for ground seal (which I would main because drs is everywhere) you've got 10 fetches. You can swing it.

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Silent Gravestone is a thing.

One of the reasons this deck can function in modern is that Cryptic can bounce hate permanents and also keep you alive long enough to combo by tapping team.
The issue I see is that Cryptic is waaaaaay too slow/overcosted for Legacy, yet we lack a "Legacy playable" card with that kind of diversity.

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Originally Posted by 8bit9mm

Silent Gravestone is a thing.

One of the reasons this deck can function in modern is that Cryptic can bounce hate permanents and also keep you alive long enough to combo by tapping team.
The issue I see is that Cryptic is waaaaaay too slow/overcosted for Legacy, yet we lack a "Legacy playable" card with that kind of diversity.

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Don't think SIlent Gravestone existed when this post was actually being discussed

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Don't think SIlent Gravestone existed when this post was actually being discussed

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That's fair, I didn't look at the post dates. I just saw that the thread had been recently active and I've been enjoying the modern deck so I decided to take a peek.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 8bit9mm

That's fair, I didn't look at the post dates. I just saw that the thread had been recently active and I've been enjoying the modern deck so I decided to take a peek.

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I also enjoy the modern version. I just stopped in to make some suggestions because I browse this board for interesting things when legacy is boring to me

Built a version for legacy last week and went 3-1. Tested against RUG Delver a bit tonight to 4-1 result. Deck actually feels powerful. I'm on no brainstorm though in favor of just playing a bunch of islands to avoid stifle. I do like the thought of side board into an LD deck of sorts. Right now have 2 Cryptic Command main as well to try to combat permanent based hate like chalice on zero and such. It was great against stone blade just as counter draw. I feel like this deck actually has some potential to maybe be a tier 2 deck if tuned