Tools N' Titans

Hey guys! IMHO, this deck is really cool. Have only played it a few times but I will be getting some games in day after tomorrow and will post the results.

This is a take on the old Vintage deck Tools n' Tubbies which used Goblin Welder, beefy artifact creatures and artifact soft lock disruption to smash your opponent. I wanna say that deck was pretty much the top Vintage deck back in 2000 but many of it's cards aren't legal in Legacy. MH2 has brought a bunch of juicy goodies.

The goal is to essentially gain tempo by taxing your opponent with cards like Trinisphere, Tangle Wire and Lodestone Golem and then smashing them to death with Nettlecyst germs, Constructs, Golems, etc.. The Welder goblins are here to circumvent the mana costs of spells by swapping these artifacts in an out of the graveyard. There is a ton of neat tricks and synergies. So far from goldfishing it feels incredibly disruptive and fast. My Nettlecyst germs can get really huge by turn 4. It just cranks out huge dudes. Often I've got 14/14 germs and constructs and multiples of them at once with a live Trinisphere and/or Tangle Wire in play. I did play it online on Untap.in I won 1 game and the second game my opponent scooped by turn 3. I'm not sure what he was playing but I think it was Death & Taxes (I didn't get to see much of his deck but I saw some Vials).

Here's my current list, I've been working on it for the better part of a month:

[EDIT]: Updated the deck. 7/21/21
Tools N' Titans: 60 cards

Welders: 9
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant

Tools: 11
2x Servo Schematic
2x The Underworld Cookbook
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Retrofitter Foundry
1x Pithing Needle
4x Faithless Looting

Titans: 11 (counting Urza's Saga. Don't forget Servo token swarms and occasional Welder jabs)
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Nettlecyst

Lock / Disruption: 11 (counting Lodestone)
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere

Mana: 25
4x Mox Opal
3x Urza's Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

EDIT: Updated sideboard
Sideboard: 15
1x Pithing Needle
1x Hex Parasite
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Winter Orb
2x Orcish Vandal
3x Stingscourger
1x Defense Grid
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Smokestack
1x O-Naginata
1x Black Vise

The shell I'm using is based on my old Welder Stax deck. That deck is actually really good! With all of the research I put into that deck I feel like I've really hammered out what works and what doesn't as far as lock / tempo / disruption cards are concerned. This deck imho, looks much stronger. Why lock em out and drag on the game when you can just smash their face and get it over with?

Here's some card explanations:

Welders: These guys are pretty obvious. Cheat threats into play by swapping artifact lock pieces and fatties in and out of the graveyard. The deck actually works fine without them so if they get countered it's no big deal. They do speed up the deck considerably and assuming they get countered or removed then there's that many less removal spells and counters I have to deal with when plopping down Trinisphere, Golems and Nettlecysts. One of my favorite tactics is to swap dead Tangle Wires in and out of the graveyard thus resetting their counters. Also drawing cards off of Ichor Wellspring and creating tons of tokens with Servo Schematic.

The Underworld Cookbook. There are a ton of tricks with this card. First of all it can activate my Mox Opals turn one by using it's ability and creating a food. In the same vein it gives me extra permanents to tap to Tangle Wire. It turns all of my late game dead cards like extra un-needed lands into artifact foods which pumps my constructs and germs and the foods can later be used to gain life in a pinch. The best part however is it's synergy with Welders. It not only pitches juicy artifacts to the yard, it creates an artifact token for me to sac to the Welder to get them into play. It can also be searched out with Urza's Saga. Love this card!

Servo Schematic is super good here too. First of all it single handedly activates my Mox Opals. It also gives me extra permanents to tap to Tangle Wire. It pumps my Nettlecyst germs and constructs and best of all it creates tons of servo tokens when swapped in and out of the yard with Welders pumping my germs and constructs even more.

Ichor Wellspring is pretty much self explanatory here. It's my draw engine with Welders and pumps my dudes and taps to Tangle Wire.

Retrofitter Foundry has a ton of utility in this deck. I don't even need to explain all of the cool synergies it has. And of course can be tutored up with Saga. I really like that I can equip my flying thopters with Nettlecyst!

Sojourner's Companion is literally what this deck needed. When I was building Welder Stax I was looking for a fatty that I could just pitch to the yard from my hand so that it could be Welded out. This guy does that but also finds me an artifact land which retroactively fixes my mana, gives me artifacts to sac to Welders, pumps my dudes.

The rest of the deck I'm sure you guys can figure out. Faithless Looting digs and pitches stuff to the yard for Welders. Tangle Wires and Trinisphere to choke opponent's mana. Lodestone to do the same but also for slapping my opponent for 5. Nettlecyst for smashing face. Note that Nettlecyst does give you two permanents which is also good with Tangle Wire.

Questions, comments, thoughts?

Perhaps this is the danger-of-cool-things, but Myr Servitor fits into multiple synergies here.

Weld Myr Servitor out for something more useful, then you have more to Weld later without having to get rid of mana sources if you draw another Servitor or a Goblin Engineer. Multiples sinks the Tanglewire to break symmetry. It seems like it would be even better with Smokestack actually.

You can find one with Urza’s Saga as well if that’s the line, or Goblin Engineer.

Myr Servitor pitches to Faithless Looting or Underworld Cookbook.

My only problem with Myr Servitor is that it’s relatively useless if you only have 1, tho it still costs a single mana and you could always find another one. The virtual card advantage (the recursion of a Servitor) could be comparable to something like Ichor Wellspring since that gets welded out anyway.

The interaction between Hex Parasite and Urza’s Saga is worth exploring since it’s a 1 drop tutorable via Urza’s Saga. Sacrifice after 3 means you can tutor up Hex Parasite on the 3rd chapter and instead of making tokens (if this is the preferred line), secure the board position with more lock pieces, like a singleton Chalice of the Void, Tormod’s Crypt, Pithing Needle, etc whatever is most appropriate for a situation when the game isn’t already locked down. Hex Parasite can also shoot counter’s off Aether Vial, which gets around Tanglewire, Trinisphere, and Lodestone Golem. You can shoot counters off your own Smokestack EOT, or move Chalice of the Void from 1 to 0. It can shoot Gemstone Mine and Wishclaw Talsiman as well.

Aside, this would be better in a black stax list, but Death’s Shadow and Hex Parasite have a bit of synergy since you can sink life with Hex Parasite to make a huge Shadow to get there quick once you have a lock. Also stax takes a lot of damage from lands like Ancient Tomb.

Lodestone Golem seems underwhelming. It’s a win condition and a soft lock piece but I feel like Engineer and Saga gets you close enough. Perhaps Smokestack or another lock piece in that slot?

Gamble seems alright as well with so many Welder effects.

Underworld Cookbook is a fantastic idea by the way. Lots of synergy. Asmora as a tutor for it suggests cards like Gamble or Mox Diamond to maximize the discard effect. I forgot when testing the card that you only need to discard something to cast it. Street Wraith, Mox Diamond, even Faerie Macabre all enable her. Sojourner’s Companion does as well when you cycle it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Perhaps this is the danger-of-cool-things, but Myr Servitor fits into multiple synergies here.

Weld Myr Servitor out for something more useful, then you have more to Weld later without having to get rid of mana sources if you draw another Servitor or a Goblin Engineer. Multiples sinks the Tanglewire to break symmetry. It seems like it would be even better with Smokestack actually.

You can find one with Urza’s Saga as well if that’s the line, or Goblin Engineer.

Myr Servitor pitches to Faithless Looting or Underworld Cookbook.

My only problem with Myr Servitor is that it’s relatively useless if you only have 1, tho it still costs a single mana and you could always find another one. The virtual card advantage (the recursion of a Servitor) could be comparable to something like Ichor Wellspring since that gets welded out anyway.

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Thanks Vacrix! Myr Servitor looks awesome! I didn't know that it existed. I'll have to test it out. Not sure what I'd cut to test it. I was running Smokestack in my old Stax deck. It did win me a lot of games and that deck is really good. It did feel slow and my opponents HATED playing against that deck. Perhaps it should at least be on the sideboard though. The Myr Servitor idea is great btw!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

The interaction between Hex Parasite and Urza’s Saga is worth exploring since it’s a 1 drop tutorable via Urza’s Saga. Sacrifice after 3 means you can tutor up Hex Parasite on the 3rd chapter and instead of making tokens (if this is the preferred line), secure the board position with more lock pieces, like a singleton Chalice of the Void, Tormod’s Crypt, Pithing Needle, etc whatever is most appropriate for a situation when the game isn’t already locked down. Hex Parasite can also shoot counter’s off Aether Vial, which gets around Tanglewire, Trinisphere, and Lodestone Golem. You can shoot counters off your own Smokestack EOT, or move Chalice of the Void from 1 to 0. It can shoot Gemstone Mine and Wishclaw Talsiman as well.

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I actually had Hex Parasite in the original list along with Tormod's Crypt to tutor up with Saga. Another card I toyed with was Expedition Map (since you can just tutor up another Saga with it). I didn't even think about using Hex Parasite to shrink Saga counters though. That's genius. Some of the other uses I had overlooked too. I had a couple of flex slots open where Retrofitter Foundry and Sojourner's Companion are. Some of the cards I tested were Trash for Treasure, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Pithing Needle, Pyrite Spellbomb, Hex Parasite etc.. All look pretty good. Retrofitter Foundry really fits this slot the best. Hex Parasite might better than Pithing Needle on the sideboard though. Maybe cut one or two Pithing Needle and add it there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Lodestone Golem seems underwhelming. It’s a win condition and a soft lock piece but I feel like Engineer and Saga gets you close enough. Perhaps Smokestack or another lock piece in that slot?

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I actually feel like Lodestone Golem is one of the very best cards in the deck. The static tax ability doesn't affect cards in my deck hardly at all but can really cripple my opponent especially when Tangle Wire and/or Trinisphere are online. Plus he slaps 5. Welder can plop him into play for free. I've tested cards such as Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethyst and they just tax me too much. In my opinion and from what I've discovered one of the best "lock piece" suites for Stax is:

4x Lodestone Golem
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere
2x Winter Orb.

This set up, especially with either Lodestone or Trinisphere in play is a near hard lock with Winter Orb. I am open to suggestions though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Gamble seems alright as well with so many Welder effects.

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Yes I agree. I have this in my "maybe" list. Would love to test it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Underworld Cookbook is a fantastic idea by the way. Lots of synergy. Asmora as a tutor for it suggests cards like Gamble or Mox Diamond to maximize the discard effect. I forgot when testing the card that you only need to discard something to cast it. Street Wraith, Mox Diamond, even Faerie Macabre all enable her. Sojourner’s Companion does as well when you cycle it.

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Thank you! Yeah, Cookbook is nuts! It's one of the best synergies in the deck. Asmora could fit quite well. I looked at it before but then just focused on Cookbook synergies. It does certainly fit the aggro bill as a 3/3 for 1 mana. This deck actually creates tempo with Tangle Wire and I could see slipping this guy into play early and slapping around your opponent while searching for Cookbook. I'm already running 4x Faithless Looting, 2x Sojourner's Companion and 2x Cookbooks. That's eight discard slots to get him into play. Not sure what I'd cut though.

Thank you for the suggestions!

Updated the sideboard:

Lots of 0-1 cc stuff to search for with Saga. Lots of artifacts to tutor with Engineer.

x Pithing Needle
1x Hex Parasite
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Winter Orb
2x Orcish Vandal
2x Stingscourger
1x Defense Grid
1x Winter Orb
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Smokestack
1x Meteor Golem
1x Black Vise

Updated the sideboard:

Lots of 0-1 cc stuff to search for with Saga. Lots of artifacts to tutor with Engineer.

1x Pithing Needle
1x Hex Parasite
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Winter Orb
2x Orcish Vandal
2x Stingscourger
1x Defense Grid
1x Winter Orb
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Smokestack
1x Meteor Golem
1x Black Vise[

It would be a black splash, which seems doable particularly with multiple Welder effects and Mox Opal, but Wishclaw Talisman can be activated, respond by Welding it out for something else, Weld it back in next turn for one more Demonic tutor. Since it’s a tutor, one can cut down on some redundant pieces an just Tutor for them instead. Then you can play multiple tutors via Goblin Engineer, Urza’s Saga and Wishclaw Talisman. Perhaps even just a singleton Urza’s Saga since you can find it when it’s good instead of drawing it when you’re staring down Wastelands. Goblin Engineer can find Wishclaw as well suggests you may only want a singleton Wishclaw, though the synergy seems strong enough to test multiple copies and find the right number. Hex Parasite if you run it has a minor synergy with Wishclaw as well if you want to remove the counters if Welder gets got. With fewer MD copies of Urza’s Saga though, Hex Parasite seems harder to justify in the MD.

Another interesting interaction I discovered recently was an old, expensive, unplayed card, Guardian Beast and Wishclaw Talsiman. With both Guardian Beast and Wishclaw, the opponent cannot gain control of the Wishclaw which means you get 3 demonic tutors instead! On top of that, your artifacts cannot be destroyed is relevant to stopping removal since they must remove the Guardian Beast first. Doesn’t protect artifact creatures tho like Lodestone Golem, only noncreature artifacts. However, it suggests to me that one can play it with something like Powder Keg or Engineered Explosives without losing your own artifacts. 3B isn’t hard for stax. I’m guessing it suggests a more build around black stax list tho than the one your building but I thought I would mention it since you’re into Stax variants.

On the subject of Urza’s Saga, it can fetch Candelabra of Tawnos which seems like it could be a nice weld in and out target for making lots of mana. Probably more relevant in 12 post but it’s an artifact.

Just went:
4-0 against Sharkstill
3-0 against Bant Control

I've always considered Wurmcoil Engine an auto-include in a Welder deck.
Curious to know why you don't use them.
I can see them at least split 2/2 with the Nettlecysts.

Someone 5-0'd with a similar deck build:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...playbaddecks_-

FoodStacks

//Lands: 20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Urza's Saga
4 Great Furnace
8 Mountain

//Creatures: 17
4 Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar
4 Goblin Welder
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Ovalchase Daredevil
1 Sundering Titan

//Planeswalkers: 2
2 Daretti, Scrap Savant

//Spells: 4
4 Faithless Looting

//Artifacts: 17
2 Mox Opal
4 The Underworld Cookbook
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Tangle Wire
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Smokestack
1 God-Pharaoh's Statue

//Sideboard: 15
3 Pyroblast
2 Abrade
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Fury
1 Blood Moon
1 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bolas's Citadel


Going harder on the Asmo+Cookbook plan seems strong. Cookbook acts as a discard outlet for Welding and makes artifacts (welding, metalcraft, titans), especially when combined with Ovalchase Daredevil. Daredevil + Asmo make up for some of the card disadvantage of looting and give board presence. Smokestack works really well with Food combo.

This build seems reliant on Goblin Engineer for card selection to get all these 1-ofs. Getting the 1-of fatties means Engineer tutor + Welder/Daretti in play, which is easily blown out by removal. I wonder if the random 1-ofs should be replaced by Karn, the Great Creator + Karnboard, giving the deck better card selection as well as another wincon.

I've been working on variants of this deck for a long time. I honestly feel, no doubt, that this deck can top 8. Right now there is another guy working on the deck as well an his conclusions are similar to mine. We've been testing a lot. His build runs the Painter / Grindstone but also a nice aggro lock package. I've been toying with the slow toolbox lockdown aggro package but also toying with Torpor Orb and Dreadnought.

Torpor Orb / Dreadnought is nice because Orb is good on it's own, it's searchable and then of course enables Dreadnought. Also, I like this combo because with Sagas the combo only hogs up a 4-6 slots in the deck depending on your build. Sadly, Orb shuts off one of Engineer's abilities however I haven't encountered this yet. Also, it doesn't shut off Engineers best ability.

It was several weeks ago but my buddy running Painter / Grindstone went something crazy against the gauntlet when we were testing. I literally can't remember the stats but he beat at least 6 or 7 top decks 2 and 0 and one of them ended up 2 and 1.

Both Dreadnought and Painter builds have positives and negatives.

*Painter / Grinstone gets instant wins but neither Painter nor Grindstone do anything other than look pretty pre-combo. The pay off is the instant win. Also, you only need to include 1-2 Grindstones with Sagas maindeck.

*The Dreadnought build is nice because at the very least Torpor Orb shuts off opponent's ETB effects and actually does something other than look pretty. The downside is that it isn't an instant win. I have had some fast wins with it though.

Most of the time though these decks just lock down and smash face with Karnstructs, and that is why I also like not running either combo.

As far as the build that build that went 5-0 I did actually test Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar. I found that splashing a color was really hard on the mana base. I also noticed that he doesn't run City of Traitors. IMHO, I would never cut City. Also a few other things.

*Sundering Titan and other fatties I scrapped a long time ago. If you draw it, it just sits in your hand.

*Daretti I've gone back and forth with. Main reason I've stopped running him is because he's hard to get into play when Lodestone is out. He also dies easy.

*IMHO, Lodestone is insane in this deck!! Absolutely one of the best cards in the deck. I would never cut it. It locks out opponent while smashing face. So good with Tangle Wire and Trinisphere.

*Underworld Cookbook is an all star here!! IMHO, 4 isn't necessary though. It's easily tutored up with Saga.

*Smokestack doesn't totally suck but it's slow. I do run a couple copies in T&Titans but why not just play 4 drops that win the game such as Lodestone. Also, 4x City of Traitors to support Smokestack and gain board presence, IMHO, feels necessary. Same reason I stopped running Karn. Smokestack and Karn always felt like they set me back a turn. They're a turn slow.

Here's my Tools n' Dreadnoughts build. The Tools n' Titans build is essentially the same except -1 Dreadnought -3 Torpor Orb and +2 Winter Orb +2 Smokestack

Welders (8)
4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder

Lock (11)
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere

Tools (11)
3x Torpor Orb
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Expedition Map
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Retrofitter Foundry
1x Shadowspear
1x Soul-Guide Lantern
1x The Underworld Cookbook

Search / Draw (4)
3x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble

Mana (26)
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain
4x Urza's Saga

Sideboard (15)
3x Abrade
1x Defense Grid
1x Hex Parasite
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Meteor Golem
1x Pithing Needle
3x Pyroclasm
1x Soul-Guide Lantern
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Winter Orb

Also, I failed to mention how good Shadowspear is with Karnstructs and in particular Lodestone Golems (bringing them out of bolt bait range).

The life gain saves your ass and the trample wins you the game. It’s a total game changer.

Thanks for the updated list! I'll have to try this out.

If you need to splash any combo at all, I think Painter + Grindstone looks better. Painter decks often play Welders anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

Torpor Orb / Dreadnought is nice because Orb is good on it's own, it's searchable and then of course enables Dreadnought. Also, I like this combo because with Sagas the combo only hogs up a 4-6 slots in the deck depending on your build. Sadly, Orb shuts off one of Engineer's abilities however I haven't encountered this yet. Also, it doesn't shut off Engineers best ability.

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Shutting off Engineer's tutor seems like a big drawback. With a toolbox list like yours, more tutors = more consistency. Saga alone isn't enough to support a toolbox that big. Engineer can get things like Trinisphere and Tangle Wire.

There are a number of other reasons against playing Orb+Dreadnought here that the Dreadnought experts (Fox, Rood, ...) could explain even better. Basically the 2nd Torpor Orb drawn is a dead draw (redundant, unlike other Dreadnought enablers) so that increases draw variance. Then Dreadnought still needs 2 attacks (pass 2 turns). Successful Dreadnought decks have lines like Scroll of Fate -> EOT uncounterable Dreadnought, to give opponent less window to interact. If you just play Dreadnoughts as a sorcery speed 2-card combo opponent has time to answer it with commonly played removal (StP, Ending, Push, Decay, Coatl, Terminus, Abrade, Meltdown, Skyclave, Eliminate, etc). Whereas Grindstone can win the game on the spot, especially if you Weld at EOT, untap, Weld again and activate.

In general Dreadnought is trying to win the game the same way Golem is (creature combat damage) so it can just lose to the same stuff, while Grindstone is an alternate angle of attack so you can pivot and win around control defenses like Terminus/Ensnaring Bridge/Uro life gain/etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

As far as the build that build that went 5-0 I did actually test Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar. I found that splashing a color was really hard on the mana base.

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What color splash? Asmo is red and costs R. The 5-0 decklist I posted has monored mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

I also noticed that he doesn't run City of Traitors. IMHO, I would never cut City.

*IMHO, Lodestone is insane in this deck!! Absolutely one of the best cards in the deck. I would never cut it. It locks out opponent while smashing face. So good with Tangle Wire and Trinisphere.

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Yeah, without City I suspect it's harder to play Lodestone Golem fast enough, so you probably need either both or neither.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

*Sundering Titan and other fatties I scrapped a long time ago. If you draw it, it just sits in your hand.

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Daretti, Cookbook and Looting all discard it. 10 discard outlets, 6 repeatable. I think that's what makes the big drops viable with 8x Welder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

*Underworld Cookbook is an all star here!! IMHO, 4 isn't necessary though. It's easily tutored up with Saga.

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Underworld Cookbook combos with Ovalchase Daredevil in hand to become even more of an all-star.
T: Create a food

I think the tech there is to build up multiple foods. There are many payoffs for that

• tap foods to Tangle Wire
• Weld foods into free cards
• nuke creatures with Asmo
• sacrifice foods to Smokestack X=1-3 to break the symmetry

Cookbook can also discard fatties so you can Weld them into play, sacrifice to return a Welder, or discard anything so you can cast Asmo for R (which then finds another Cookbook).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

*Smokestack doesn't totally suck but it's slow. I do run a couple copies in T&Titans but why not just play 4 drops that win the game such as Lodestone.

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Smokestack whittles down their resources so they can't build up enough lands/creatures to get around Golem or Tangle Wire. It's also red's only way to answer cards like Blood Moon, Alpine Moon and Back to Basics that would disrupt your manabase and Saga. I see merits, especially in the grindy Food combo list. In yours, I wonder if 1-2 Smokestack would work well next to Golem + Tangle Wire + 3sphere just to ensure opponent can't build up resources to break your locks.

Without Smokestack or Asmo, how do you deal with big creatures like Murktide Regent?

FTW, thanks for the reply!

In response to your Dreadnought vs. Painter combos in the deck. Both of those were recommended by a friend of mine who also saw potential in the deck. We just both decided to test either route. I just happened to go with Dreadnought and he went with Painter. I actually prefer the deck without either.

Like you said earlier though, the Painter route:

Benefits are:
1. Kills on the spot.
2. It's another route rather that just attacking, so it's not susceptible to the same creature hate.
Drawbacks:
1. It hogs up more slots in the deck.
2. Neither combo piece does anything on it's own.

Dreadnought's Benefits and Drawbacks are the exact reverse.

Benefits:
1. Only hogs up 4 slots.
2. Combo pieces actually do something on their own.
Drawbacks:
1. Doesn't kill on the spot.
2. Susceptible to removal and isn't another true win con.

Honestly, I like the deck without either. The other route is to add zero combos and add more pressure. I like Nettlecyst. The list I put up was the Dreadnought list and I was in a bit of hurry and didn't really post the non Dreadnought list. Here it is. If you test out a build, test this one out.

Flex slots are Smokestack, Winter Orb, Expedition map. Perhaps, you want to include Daretti, more on that after the list.

Welders (8)
4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder

Lock (11)
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere

Titans: (6)
2x Nettlecyst
4x Urza's Saga

Tools (9)
1x Expedition Map
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Retrofitter Foundry
1x Shadowspear
1x Soul-Guide Lantern
1x The Underworld Cookbook
1x Winter Orb
1x Smokestack

Search / Draw (4)
4x Faithless Looting

Mana (26) (including Saga)
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3x Abrade
1x Defense Grid
1x Hex Parasite
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Meteor Golem
1x Pithing Needle
3x Pyroclasm
1x Soul-Guide Lantern
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Winter Orb


My thoughts were the exact same as yours concerning Daretti. We want 10 Welders and more 6 Looting effects right? Maybe. I just could never get the Daretti's into play. All of the games I tested them in I never got them into play. If it came down to me dropping Lodestone or Daretti I always dropped Lodestone.

Concerning Asmo. That's a route I'd like to explore more. I did toy with it. That was back in July I though. I think I was splashing black for some reason. Not sure why I stopped testing him other than the black splash. Maybe I was splashing black to hard cast Oval Chase Daredevil.

Cookbook synergies are insane though! Very often if I don't tutor it up I miss it big time!! I can't stress that enough. Don't forget it can enable Mox Opal turn one.

I know the Asmo deck went 5-0 at an event. I've literally done the same thing without it being recorded at an event. I'll have to try it out though. I'll certainly swallow my pride if I find out it's better. I of course like my tested Trinisphere / Lodestone.

Good points. I'll have to try that out!

For the Painter version, could you not just run 4 slots too: 3x Painter + 1x Grindstone?

Grindstone does nothing on its own (like Dreadnought), but Painter is at worst a 1/3 creature that stonewalls Ragavan. Maindeck Torpor is completely textless in some matches, even if it can shut off things in others. 2x Painter is at least 2 bodies, but 2x Torpor is 1 dead card. I don't know that Painter on its own is much worse than Torpor. You said your friend had a big win streak with the Painter version, right?

In the non-combo version, what is your plan against big creatures like Murktide? (anything too big for Abrade or Pyroclasm) Do you want something like Meekstone or Pacification Array?

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Originally Posted by FTW

Good points. I'll have to try that out!

For the Painter version, could you not just run 4 slots too: 3x Painter + 1x Grindstone?

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I actually really like that route. My buddy's build was running a lone LED to activate Grindstone and ended up cutting a few other maindeck control cards to help speed up the combo. He must be doing something right though because he was stomping a lot of decks with it. Some/many of the cards I wasn't a fan of that he was testing. I personally like the 4 slot build you mentioned myself and that was what I was originally thinking.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Grindstone does nothing on its own (like Dreadnought), but Painter is at worst a 1/3 creature that stonewalls Ragavan. Maindeck Torpor is completely textless in some matches, even if it can shut off things in others. 2x Painter is at least 2 bodies, but 2x Torpor is 1 dead card. I don't know that Painter on its own is much worse than Torpor. You said your friend had a big win streak with the Painter version, right?

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Yeah, he was doing pretty dang good with it. It's a nice deck! He's tweaked a few times since and it doesn't seem to have quite the same oomph. I think he added a few too many combo enabling cards. I'm thinking less combo is better in that build and if the combo happens then it happens. However, some of the games you think he's going for a beat down plan and then the next turn you're dead. I'll see if I can get him to join the conversation in here.

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Originally Posted by FTW

In the non-combo version, what is your plan against big creatures like Murktide? (anything too big for Abrade or Pyroclasm) Do you want something like Meekstone or Pacification Array?

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In that situation I'm hoping my Karnstructs and Nettlecysts are bigger. Often they are 10/10+. Also, Shadowspear can help win some of these races with it's lifelink. I think I cut Meekstone because it stops my Karnstructs. Pacification Array looks great here! Totally forgot about that card. It should be an auto-include.

I'd be really curious to know what you think about the deck. It's not super easy to play right out of the gate, but I'm sure you get the gist. Drop your lock pieces, create Karnstructs and smash face. Obviously, dump all of your cheap one drops before you drop your Trinisphere.

Sagas tutor up your silver bullets.

Don't forget about all your Welder tricks. Remember, Goblin Welder can target your opponent's permanents. Also, you can weld out your Pithing Needle then weld it back in with a new target etc..

Think I might test Asmo next week if anyone is interested. I’m going to keep the 3Balls from Tools n’ Titans. I’d like to splash black. Why not have the ability to cast Daredevil? It would be nice to squeeze in Entomb and a silver bullet or two. Don’t have room though. Anyway, I’ll probably test something like this:

Tools & Titans & Asmo:

Welders: 8
4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder

Combo: 12
4x Asmo
4x The Underworld Cookbook
4x Ovalchase Daredevil

Tools: 5
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Retrofitter Foundry
1x Shadowspear
1x Soul-Guide Lantern

Disruption: 7
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere

Outlets: 4
4x Faithless Looting

Mana: 24
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
4x Badlands
2x Mountains
4x Urza's Saga

Karnstructs should be HUGE!! With Shadowspear I don’t think we’ll be worrying about bigger creatures. Trample and Lifelink should be game ending.

Cut down on the City of Traitors. The mana base is less taxing.

I’m going to miss Lodestone big time!! Can’t find room. We’ll see how it goes.

Too bad Braids is BB2 instead of B3. Smokestack is so slow.