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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yes, possibly -bloodghast, -daze, +grief, +dark ritual. Currently just goldfishing, making sure it does its thing. Edit: once Daze goes then blue altogether goes, because red is better at doing...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Initial testing went really smooth, although I'm not sure the power level is up to snuff. I cut Thoughtseize altogether along with the fast mana to squeeze in Hapless Researcher and another copy of...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I am debating a cut on the Lotus Petals so I can incorporate Once Upon a Time. It can be very good at finding a land on t0 or finding a Putrid Imp/other enabler. I'm fine doing the thing on t2, I'm...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Good points, and Shadow basically replaces Troll. I like that Initiate can be a 3/3 even late game, without setup. It *might* be good enough.
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Missed this one on the first pass: Cabal Initiate. It's another discard outlet in black that's easier to cast than Lotleth Troll. It also gets a threshold bonus in the mid game that isn't dependent...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yeah, I saw that list posted in the other thread. It's cool, but it's also weak to Daze and graveyard hate. My whole premise for Shadow was to have a big cheap 1-mana threat that can trigger...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    With the focus on black so strong now, I am debating Dark Ritual over Lotus Petal. It can allow for some insane early plays that not only enable fast starts but can also allow for Thoughtseize to be...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I agree! However, I don't know if I can afford the card disadvantage, which is a very real cost with whatever these madness synergies result in for Legacy. Grief is great, and I can probably support...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Actually pretty excited about Kitchen Imps, because it's another black Madness card that is aggressively costed. With Death's Shadow, Putrid Imp, and Kitchen Imps there may be enough density to lean...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Massive necro here, just trying to figure out if Grief works in this type of setup. It would need a re-tooling, but anything creature-based that's that cheap to cast for Vengevines seems pretty solid.
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I tried the Hapless Researcher list last night, got a few test games in. It isn't looking great. I haven't drawn Hapless Researcher or Mausoleum Secrets yet so I haven't really gotten a strong hold...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Hapless Researcher/Mausoleum Secrets list:

    4x Putrid Imp
    4x Hapless Researcher
    4x Death’s Shadow
    4x Vengevine
    4x Hollow One
    4x Street Wraith
    4x Prized Amalgam
    3x Bloodghast
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    That's a good initial response for the red splash, so the next question becomes this: how do we accomplish a strictly UB version? The natural places to look are Brainstorm and Hapless Researcher. The...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    When I was testing with Faithless Looting before, I would often get flooded actually. I was playing 4 Careful Study/4 Street Wraith/4 Once Upon a Time/3 Faithless Looting. I had zero problems with...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yes, I would definitely look to Ingot Chewer before Shenanigans, for both Vengevine and Reanimate synergy. Insolent Neonate is likely just worse than Hapless Researcher, simply for Force of Will...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    If only playing UB, what are you replacing OUAT with? Brainstorm? It would definitely make playing sideboard Forces a cinch.

    Rough Grixis list:

    4x Putrid Imp
    4x Death's Shadow
    4x Vengevine...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yeah, without Cabal Therapy and Undiscovered Paradise Bloodghast becomes the worst creature in the deck. I think with Reanimate in there I can safely cut a Bloodghast to make room for more utility...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Potentially testing these cards soon:

    Lingering Souls
    Haunted Dead


    Haunted Dead triggers Prized Amalgam and is an enabler. I know that 2-mana enablers aren't perfect, although Lotleth Troll...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    A 4-color hogaak list just took 1st at a small event:

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=27850&d=420965&f=LE

    What this tells me is that it may be possible to squeeze in red for Faithless Looting...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I was losing even against 'bad' combo decks like Ruby Storm in testing. Because we aren't favored we need to mulligan to disruption g2-3 anyways because we just can't race fast enough (reliably.)...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I definitely suggest you work towards a standard Hogaak list, it sounds right up your alley.

    Permanents I want to be able to deal with maindeck: Oko, Marit Lage, Batterskull, Chalice of the Void,...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I was doing some small testing last night, just goldfishing against some other brews, and I think we need some sort of answer to problems on-board in the main deck. I didn't go for the Brainstorm...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Short testing session against Burn and Turbo Depths. Lotleth Troll is too slow without Lotus Petal, 15 lands is 1 too many, and I have had zero problems getting Shadow online by turn 2. I wouldn't...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I agree completely. The other important aspect is I could really use a few more fetchlands to feed Death's Shadow. Traditional Shadow lists play 9 fetches, where I'm down to 7-8.

    List I'll be...
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    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Street Wraith and Faerie Macabre are the best black reusable creatures, but others would be Fleshbag Marauder and Shriekmaw. Call to the Netherworld will never be anything but card parity, so the...
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