[Deck] Tezzeret Stax

[RoddyVR]

I know it may be one of those "cool things" that people are so afraid of, but when i think of a deck that includes:
Tezzeret
Smokestack
Tanglewire
Chalice of the void

i just cant help but realy want to put Clockspinning into the deck.

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruins
4 Seat of Synod
8 Island

4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Tanglewire
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Powder Keg

4 Clockspinning
3 Tezzeret the Seeker

Clockspinning clashes with Chalice at 1, but the uses it has with almost every other piece of the deck (including chalices not at 1) more then makes up for it i think.
Getting Tezzy up in counters faster
Making tanglewire a non expiring softlock while you try to draw into other lock pieces, as your land base grows above 2 blue and 6 colorless, you can actualy get a tanglewire up as high as you want.
Ramping up smokestack higher then you normaly would to kill off their permanants faster, then being able to take it down to 1 once that's all you need for the lock.
I'm not sure Powder Keg is the right choice (chalice at 2, and trinisphere) but if you have it, then clockspining can be used to surprise opponents who thought they still had a turn before you could blow it to kill off their stuff or who thought you'd already "passed" the number of counters they realy fear.

I think my version is seriously lacking some sort of draw/tutoring, but i dont know what to cut to fit anything like that in. Also being in blue, i keep wanting to stick force of will or some other counters in there, but again, no space. I like ancestral vision with clockspinning, but that interaction is probably too far into the "cool things" zone cause one is unlikely to buyback the clockspin used to accelerate ancestral, which then means your card advantage from visions is diminished in order to speed it up.

[Mastikor]

The main problem of this deck is how to protect your Tezzeret (and yourself) against creatures like Goyf. White Stax can handle them (and still it has problems), but this deck just seems too vulnerable. I like Tangle Wire, but I really want to add some Propaganda, Pendrell Mists and targets for your Tezzeret (Ensnaring Bridge, Winter Orb...). I really hope this deck will see play though...

[Yawgmoth]

I think a one of Meekstone should be put into consideration.

With Tezzeret it can be searched out to protect yourself against Thresh and a number of creatures.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Why not use Paradox Haze with Tangle Wire?

Also, Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience is a good win-con with alternate uses. It's UB (My build was UBg, but I thought about going UBr), but Leyline can often be played for free, plus it's maindeck GY hate that's good against Loam (a more difficult matchup, at least in my opinion, and I played only stax varients for over a year), Ichorid, and many other 'Yard based lists. You can run helm as a 1-of and be fine, although I ran intuition and therefore chose to run 3x. I have won on turn 4 protected via Trinisphere (they had less than 3 lands) by dropping LotV turn 0, and using Tezzeret to find Helm for a win. This combo also doesn't make you use Tezzeret to find and play the combo and doesn't screw around with your Chalice plays.

Just an idea.

Pce,

--DC

[Valtrix]

So, I have no experience with this deck, but randomly threw together a list and was playing it yesterday. I was wondering about a few cards that seem like they could be powerful here:

1) Ensnaring bridge
-> Seems like a good way to protect Tezzeret, since we want to get rid of our hand quickly anyway. Sure, your guys can't swing with Tezzeret's ultimate ability, but you can just wait and sacrifice bridge to smokestack when you need to win. (Since you'll probably need to charge tezzeret anyway) I feel like these type of decks need to mulligan even more than usual, and this, in a way, rewards that.

1b) Bottled cloister
-> I was playing with three bridges, so I threw in a 1x cloister, since I thought the draw might be nice. It seemed pretty useful all the times I had it, and was (of course) amazing with bridge. I kind of like the idea of having two card-artifact "combos" to lock down the opponent, so that tezzeret can go fetch whatever is needed.

2)Gifts ungiven/intution
-> These both seem pretty broken in the deck. I'm not sure which would be better. Everything we play should be pretty ridiculous, so this just lets you make a pile of all ridiculous cards.

3)Land win cons (Nexus, factory, heck maybe even faerie conclave)
-> We play crucible already, why not have a way to win with our lands, or additional ways to protect Tezzeret? We want to have a lot of lands for mox diamond to work already, and we only need so much blue, and this may let us run a few more lands to make more consistent plays, while still having something to do with them. They might (probably are) too slow, however.

[raggster]

My decklist:

4 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
3 Tangle Wire
3 Winter Orb
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Master Transmuter
3 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
2 Talisman of Progress
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
8 Island

Might be off by a card or two.

My approach with this is to slow down the game as much as possible. Early plays are always Chalice or Trinisphere, followed by a Tangle Wire. Winter Orb helps keep the Tangle Wire relevant throughout all its Fade counters and hopefully set up a second Wire after the first one bites it. Wasteland is, well, Wasteland. Crucible is a given.

Both Smokestack and Tangle Wire can be reset using Master Transmuter, which should be protected enough by Chalices and Trinispheres/Winter Orbs. There have been times when I could set my Smokestack to 4, only to bounce it at the end of my opponent's turn to set it back to 0. Master also helps keep the board locked down with Tangle Wire long enough to find a Smokestack or Tezzeret, either by topdecking or by fetch using Intuition.

This list is largely untested, save for goldfish games against some local decklists and a number of games against a BW aggrocontrol list my friend plays, so feedback is most welcome.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Splash green for a LftL. Otherwise your Intuition piles will be less than useful, only able to tutor for 3 artifacts that are the same unless you already have an active Crucible.

Pce,

--DC

[_erbs_]

Why not use Paradox Haze with Tangle Wire?

Also, Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience is a good win-con with alternate uses. It's UB (My build was UBg, but I thought about going UBr), but Leyline can often be played for free, plus it's maindeck GY hate that's good against Loam (a more difficult matchup, at least in my opinion, and I played only stax varients for over a year), Ichorid, and many other 'Yard based lists. You can run helm as a 1-of and be fine, although I ran intuition and therefore chose to run 3x. I have won on turn 4 protected via Trinisphere (they had less than 3 lands) by dropping LotV turn 0, and using Tezzeret to find Helm for a win. This combo also doesn't make you use Tezzeret to find and play the combo and doesn't screw around with your Chalice plays.

Just an idea.

Pce,

--DC

Paradox Haze seems to be a nice combo with all the upkeep effects from stax.

Just a clarification on Paradox Haze, would the enchanted player after getting his/her 2nd ukeep get another draw phase ?

Thanks

[Dark_Cynic87]

Nope.

It goes Untap, Upkeep, Upkeep, Draw. Not Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Upkeep, Draw.

[_erbs_]

Nope.

It goes Untap, Upkeep, Upkeep, Draw. Not Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Upkeep, Draw.

Thanks

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Ok... So this list doesn't actually run Tezzeret. But it seems like a pretty solid shell to mess around with, and no offense, but it seems like some folks are getting a little caught up with "cool things" and whatnot.

So here's this Blue-White Stax list I found on DeckCheck:

creature [2]
2 Sower of Temptation

instant [4]
4 Thirst for Knowledge

sorcery [2]
2 Armageddon

enchantment [4]
4 Propaganda

artifact [23]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Powder Keg
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere

land [25]
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Maze of Ith
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland

60 cards

Sideboard:
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Windborn Muse
2 Chill
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt

15 cards

...Or am I just pulling this thread further away from its central topic with that?

[Michael Keller]

It's an interesting concept; Tezz Stax without Tezz.

You could elaborate a little more on how that has been working for you. I'd be interested in knowing.

[_erbs_]

has anyone tried running a blue stax and how does it fair in the current meta

[Dark_Cynic87]

creature [2]
2 Sower of Temptation

instant [4]
4 Thirst for Knowledge--Bad. Looks good, it's crap. Try Intuition as a 3-of and find something better for the 4th slot.

sorcery [2]
2 Armageddon--How is this even useful in here? If they are here for the Magii in the sb, don't. Use these slots for a more synergistic idea. Either that or use the last TfK slot for a third one. Running a non-artifact card as a two of in a list with almost no CA is stupid. They never show up when you need them. The idea of stax is redundancy = consistancy. No redundancy, way less consistancy.

enchantment [4]
4 Propaganda--Ghostly Prison if you run both W and U since U cards get pwned by REB/Pyroblast, which is a concern for you in the current meta with Painter, Goblins and Storm (not that storm cares unless they EtW) doing well.

artifact [23]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Powder Keg--WTF? EE >>>>>>>>>>>> Powder Keg.
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere

land [25]
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island

2 Maze of Ith--Bad. I've tried. If you are worried about fliers, put in Blinkmoth Nexus, otherwise drop these and use O-Ring. You would then still have 23 lands (I'd drop a keg//EE to up the count of land up to 24 with another Factory) Then you would have Spot Removal also, which is a better answer to everything than this is to anything.

3 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland

60 cards

Sideboard:
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Windborn Muse
2 Chill
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt

15 cards--Drop the Muses for sure, the Glen Elendra Archmages are "Danger of Cool Things". More needles, another Crypt IMO.

I think that would help it a lot.

Pce,

--DC

[raggster]

The unbanning of Metalworker has me excited about this deck again. I've often run into problems of locking myself out of my own mana under a Tangle Wire-Winter Orb setup, and Metalworker might just be my answer.

[_erbs_]

Hello,
Yeah i had a similiar problem in locking myself aswell while running the old blue stax. Here is my proposed list for the legacy stax deck.

Blue stax could provide some good SB options that could help your matchups especially against stax hate. I add complicate in the SB aswell for that purpose aswell.

The win condition is not that hard aswell since you could win via one turn swing in tezzeret as compared to other legacy stax deck. If tezz gets removed you have factory or metalworker for your beatdown options.

I didn't include master transmuter in the list yet since i don't want to shake the old skeleton i had since its been doing well expect for the mana problems. I aslo added sphere of resistance for a higher chance of a early lockdown as before i couldn't since im affected by it before now with metalworker maybe it could work well.

I know master transumter could provide lots of interaction and advantages to the deck. I will definitely test her aswell.

The winter orbs are there for geddon effect and as a taxing effect for end of turn decks or decks that has tons of cantrips and to maximize my creature defense via propaganda since i don't have a tabernacle effect.


Lock [28]
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Winter Orb
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Propaganda
2 Bottled Cloister
3 Smokestack
3 Crusible of Worlds

Utilities [5]
3 Metalworker
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

Mana [27]
4 Ancient tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Seat of Synod
5 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Accademy Ruins
4 Mox Diamond

SB:
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Complicate
3 Jester's Cap
1 Winter Orb
1 Sphere of Resistance
3 Sower of Temptation / Control Magic

[jazzykat]

Pendrell Mists which I believe was mentioned earlier in the thread is a different take on Tabernacle and is a whole lot harder to get rid of than a land.

[deadlock]

@_erbs_
While i think your list is a good starting point, it doesnt play out the advantages of playing a blue based Tezz/Metalworker Staxlike deck. The biggest question is, why play this and not Armageddon Stax?
So we have:
- Greater consistency, while being a major drawback of Armageddon Stax - a blue based deck gives you more options to increase consistency. Besides Tezzeret, which acts as a great Tinker like tutor, i propose some kind of draw / search spell to be included as well. Possible choices are:
Intuiton
Thirst for Knowledge
Fabricate
Fact or Fiction
Gifts Ungiven
Stroke of Genius

Of these i would start with Fact or Fiction, because it costs 4 mana, which would be a drawback normally, but keep in mind that we also run metalworker and want to abuse him. There other reasons, but i dont want to discuss these and the other possibilites for now (personally i would love to see Gifts working).

Second point is Tezzeret / Metalworker, which allows a combo finish. If we solely look at Tezz Painter/Grindstone would be the preferred combo kill, but with Metalworker in the mix i would opt for Staff of Domination.

While looking at the advantages we have to keep in mind the disadvantages.
The first thing that comes to my mind is, how to protect ourselves against creature beatdown. Each choice should be made in way that it protects Tezzeret as well. Some choices:
- Ensnaring Bridge
- Tangle Wire
- Propaganda (imo the worst, it cant be tutored up, doesnt protect Tezz and becomes better with a stronger mana denial approach).
So i would go for the first two, playtesting may reveal that Propaganda main is necessary.

To recap - a rough sketch / skeleton of the deck:

3 Tezzeret
4 Fact of Fiction

4 Chalice
3-4 Trinisphere

1-X Ensnaring Bridge
1-X Tangle Wire

4 Metalworker
1-3 Crucible
1-3 Staff of Domination

4 Mox
at least 24 land with
at least 7 two mana lands
1-2 Academy Ruins
0-4 Seat of the Synod (Can be untapped with Tezz and counts for Metalworker activation)

Feedback appreciated.

[_erbs_]

@deadlock
The difference of geddon stax as compared to blue stax is that its SB options. It has countermagic or creature stealing ability. I didn't add the draw factor since for me i don't feel the need to put in 4 or more copies of a draw card. Fact or Fiction or other draw cards are nice indeed. But i prefer bottled cloister over them.

Bottled Cloister is a permanent drawer and a mana for metalworker. I don't feel the need of having 4 or more copies of draw mechanics in a stax deck since im going for consistency. If ever the cloister gets blown up its okay more or less the cards in your hand are the cards on your board aswell.

Ensnaring Bridge is really nice espcially paired with bottled cloister and can be tutored by tezz. But i chose propaganda as of now over it bec propaganda is strong paired with winter orb.

In this build i don't really mainly on tezzeret. He's more of a utility and a finisher. My goal to estabilish board position then bring him down to finish the game. So protecting him isn't so hard aswell. We have cotv, trini & now sphere or resistance.

Staff of Domination is really nice but what would you cut for it ? for me its just a utility as compared to a locking part.

I lessen the land count by 1 since i've placed in 3 metalworkers and we don't have a geddon effect to wipe away all our mana as compared to geddon stax thats why when im using it i don't go below 24 lands aswell. Im guessing the mana boost that would be given by the metalworkers are enough to power our artifacts. I will test my list aswel so i could know if 3 or 4 is the right number for metalworkers. I only made it 3 for now cause the deck is so tied up in space and removing a card would hurt its consistency.


@jazzykat
Pendrell mists are really nice as compared to tabernacle or propaganda but 4 mana is still 4 mana. Under Spehre of resistance you might find it hard to cast them.

The thing is we need a card that could provide us time to setup espcially against aggro since the most common way of winning in the game, thats why ensnaring bridge or propagada are the top 2 choices for me. Maybe if i don't run sphere of resistance just maybe pendrell mists could come to mind, but sphere of resistance is just too good now that metalworker is available.

[raggster]

@erbs: I largely use Master Transmuter to reset Smokestack and Tangle Wire counters, as well as to play artifacts for "free" under Winter Orb+Tangle Wire. You should really give it a try, it's been a hoot to use.

I noticed though that you only use two each of Winter Orb and Sphere of Resistance and a third copy of each in your SB, is it really advisable to keep the count that low in the main?

@deadlock: Tangle Wire isn't as effective without Winter Orb; at best it is a delaying tactic that affects both of you almost equally. Winter Orb is what makes the Tangle Wire effect imbalanced in your favor since you run Metalworker.

Right now I'm testing a list that looks like:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Tangle Wire
3x Smokestack
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Winter Orb

3x Tezzeret the Seeker

3x Metalworker
3x Master Transmuter
2x Sundering Titan or Filigree Angel**

4x Mox Diamond
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
2x Academy Ruins
3x Wasteland
4x Seat of Synod
5x Island

**The life gain you get from a resolved Filigree Angel is ridiculous. The most I've ever gained off a single Angel drop is 42 (14 artifacts in play). I'm still undecided on which one to play main, but I may just go with Titan, as the lifegain factor isn't as potent as the land destruction potential of Titan paired with Smokestacks.

I'm curious on running Sphere of Resistance but can't see what to cut.

My SB isn't finished, but my working list is:

4x Chill - Burn decks abound in my meta
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Powder Keg - mostly as a weaker substitute for Engineered Explosives, but since I run mono-colored an early resolved Keg can be quite flexible
3x Pithing Needle - because I really hate opposing Wastelands and SDTs. It also randomly hates Knight of the Reliquiary, which has been making rounds in our meta.
2x Duplicant - Originally this was Control Magic, but I found that Duplicant is just as effective in dealing with opposing creatures. It also works very well in conjunction with Master Transmuter.