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Thread: [Deck] Solidarity

  1. #4101
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I played Solidarity at a local 4-rounder yesterday going 3-1.
    0-2 Miracles: Not sure how to win a late counter war.
    2-0 UR Delver: His hands developed poorly and I was lucky having some decent draws.
    2-1 Grixis Delver: Instants are better than creatures and my Flusterstorms countered the relevant spells.
    2-0 UGW FoodChain: Nothing special to tell. He was quite lucky in g1 drawing all the FoWs but I managed to punch through his permission spells.
    Deck felt strong, especially the addition of Mystic Sanctuary paid off.

    1 Turnabout
    2 Impulse
    2 Veil of Summer
    3 Meditate
    3 Flusterstorm
    3 Force of Will
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 Reset
    4 Mission Briefing
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    4 Brainstorm
    4 High Tide
    4 Opt
    2 Mystic Sanctuary
    2 Tropical Island
    7 Island
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta

    I had like ten minutes time to throw together a sideboard that's why it looks rather random. I am pretty satisfied with the main though.

    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    2 Veil of Summer
    1 Krosan Grip
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Divert
    1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
    1 Turnabout
    1 Meditate
    1 Force of Will
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
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  2. #4102
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Interesting list CabalTherapy,

    How would you compose the SB after playing the tournament?
    Dont you think Rebuild is still mandatory to run in the sideboard?

    Veil of Summer works like a better Silence here.

    Dont you feel the lack of Repeal/Snap maindeck? I guess you go for "np just race them"?

  3. #4103

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Isn't Veil of Summer a good reason to give another try to Tropical Tide with Growth Spiral
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  4. #4104
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I think vs miracles you might want to go for a brain freeze plan. Not sure if it's viable enough, but I suspect casting 2 or 3 brain freezes even if it's over several turns should get there. (especially with mystic sanctuary)
    -rob

  5. #4105
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Spigore View Post
    Interesting list CabalTherapy,

    How would you compose the SB after playing the tournament?
    Dont you think Rebuild is still mandatory to run in the sideboard?

    Veil of Summer works like a better Silence here.

    Dont you feel the lack of Repeal/Snap maindeck? I guess you go for "np just race them"?
    I have no idea, I have though about some Devastation Tide against lock decks. I haven't put too much thought into the SB yet but I think that it might look completely different next time. Not sure if [Thing in the Ice] will find space, too.
    [card]Rebuild[/cards] is great and it might deserve a spot or two.
    Not sure about Snap and Repeal as my main is built to be consistent and relatively fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    Isn't Veil of Summer a good reason to give another try to Tropical Tide with Growth Spiral
    Actually, I was unaware of this card but it might be something that looks good on paper but isn't in the actual deck. At first glance it does everything we want: puts a land into play, is an instant, draws a card. However, I do believe that it does both things not good enough. I need cards that are great at what they are doing like Impulse, Mission Briefing, or simple the draw power of AKs.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I think vs miracles you might want to go for a brain freeze plan. Not sure if it's viable enough, but I suspect casting 2 or 3 brain freezes even if it's over several turns should get there. (especially with mystic sanctuary)
    I thought about Sphinx of the Final Word but it might be too far fetched. When it comes into play, it should win the game though. Multiple Branz Freezes could work as well but they board in RiP and SE, which can be problematic even with Sanctuaries. Brain Freeze from hand into Mission Briefing > Brain Freeze can be neck breaking for them.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  6. #4106

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I strongly dislike splashing. Had very bad experience splashing green for hunting pack. I run this counter wall and core staples:

    4 FOW
    1 FON
    1 Remand
    1 fluster

    SB:

    1 fluster
    1 pact

  7. #4107

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I think splashing green for veil of summer is almost mandatory at this point

  8. #4108

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    I think splashing green for veil of summer is almost mandatory at this point
    Think so?

    maybe i ll try but didnt feel i mandatory need it. wastelnad sometimes are a thing..

  9. #4109

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Question would be why? And why green? There's still white for silence - does this "draw a card" makes such a difference?

  10. #4110

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    it also protects you from discard and pretty much serves same role as silence since you can lead with veil and if it resolves then you're good to go.

  11. #4111

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity



    At least one for the wishboard, and maybe 1 in the MD?

  12. #4112
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Hello mates,

    Long long time no see. Of course, I am the only cucu who would still play Solidarity in 2022, but here we are.

    Been playing a bit with it lately. A consistent turn 3 kill soli, or a no-high tide-needed kill (hence no Cunning Wish). Two things: we are a reactive (or most likely the only fully reactive) deck and (or rather, but) now, more than ever, there are times where we have to not be reactive to flush out counter and information. To know when to fake a combo or to force a move from our opponent is the key now.

    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 High Tide
    4 Reset
    2 Brain Freeze
    3 Remand
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Mission Briefing
    4 Meditate
    3 Force of Will
    2 Snap
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    2 Flusterstorm
    4 Opt
    2 Thirst for Discovery
    1 Turnabout
    1 Peek
    1 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    10 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Mystic Sanctuary

    2 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
    3 Dress Down
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Force of Will
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    2 Ravenous Trap
    1 Chain of Vapor

    So, a small breakdown - I know the list is consistent but I am not sure about a few things and as always, it's a demanding deck.

    Flusterstorm:

    More than late game and early fights, don't let opponents sculpt hands: ponder t1/t2 💥 Expressive Iteration 💥 and etc. Discard, combos and what not same. Actually, the least useful skill for Fluster is counter wars but it's still a killer.

    The 1 Force of Negation:

    CMC easier castable than FoW, simple as that.

    Snap:

    Not only its interaction with Snapcaster is great but also the fact that around 9/10 decks use creatures these days. The Snap T2/T3 + cantrip spells of 1 CMC to keep the game going feels like a time walk sometimes. Do it to a Murktide and it will be a Time walk. Also, post board we might need to bounce several permanents and Brazen Borrower's Petty theft is there.

    Snapcaster vs Mission Brief:

    2-2 of is, in my opinion, a good balance. Mission, with the exceptions of the Forces and Traps (post board) are a 1 time 2 cmc + x; mage is a blocker and has a synergy with Snap - maybe that's why they call it SNAPcaster 🤪 joking.
    Jokes aside, weirdly enough, in Solidarity, the mage doesn't suffer that much with Endurance as it is still a toolbox and enabler during the combo.

    The 2 Thirst for Discovery

    It is a great card and here is why: this version of the deck is focused on split the combo into two. You will find yourself combo-ing 2x most of the times, that can happen without HT, through Reset alone and through the use of the grave, then, Meditate (with its costs - extra Op turn), the Blue Sun's Zenith (the CMC is wow but oh well...) or Thirst will refill your hand. This is a necessary strategy due to the use of Pyroblasts maindeck etc. Counter wars can be like "combo to flush the counters out" if that doesn't happen, the combo is still there.
    Combo off of Thirst instead of Meditate - not optimal but far from impossible either. The 10 Islands are there for that. During combo, it's an amazing card draw/advantage. Honestly, the last match I played before coming here to write this was off of 1 Brain Freeze, 1 Mission Briefing and 1 Remand with 1 HT and 1 Reset. Which leads to....

    The 2 Brain Freeze

    Simply putting it: it facilitates the T3 combo, split-combo etc.

    1 Blue Sun's Zenith

    A tricky one, not sure if it's the best but it's a second option to go for a kill and it refills your hand when in need (only 20% of the time, thou). Still, for a combo that want to rely only on Brain Freeze (not advisable with the amount of Surgical Extraction, it can be another weakness), Archmage Charm is an option as a toolbox for kill, draw, counter being Snapcaster-able and Mission Brief-able and I guess it gains control of a Delver, a Saga's Token or Marit Lage. 😅

    The 4 Opt and 1 Peek with no Impulse

    T3 requires more spells with less mana; random Peek can gain you some time while understanding your opponent's hand and really you are okay at 3 lands but not at 1 or 2 (obviously 🤯🤣).
    Which raises the obvious question: Chalice of the Void. Summarizing: you're good vs Chalice at 1 but not at 2. Counter threats that put a clock on you not the Chalice for 1. You can Reset and generate progressive storm with Snap+Snapcaster, Mission Briefing, Remand on Brain Freeze. If you don't have a clock on the table, you don't need High Tide, trust me. Also, Thrist for Discovery is a winner in these cases.

    A quick overlock at the Sideboard:

    The Traps are absolute beasts in performing their roles. TEG, TES, Ad Naseaum, All Spells, Dredge(?), Elves, Madness etc...
    Ravenous Trap + Surgical Extraction vs Reanimator (unless it's vs Show and Tell - which I believe, is unwinnable). I would not board in Surgical vs combos due to lack of outs vs amount of ins.

    Dress Down - Maverick, Death and Taxes, and friends

    The Chain of Vapor - can be a 3rd Flusterstorm if you play against a lot of Pox, but still it's a nice card to play with Mage, Mission and on its own. It's worth having Vapor vs Doomsday, Goblins, and Lands.

    The Brazen Borrower - Leylines can be a nightmare as well as Trinisphere and other stuff, Narset (which can be killed as well as bounced).

    Hurkyl's Recall - I have been wondering if it's worth having it around, for now yes, later on, I don't know. Only Thrinisphere with a strong clock is worth bouncing which is only present on Mono Red Prison, which I prefer to leave their Chalice on 1 on the table rather than be out of the frying pan into the fire with REB/Pyroblasts after spending resources to bounce that thing...

    FoW - not that I usually bring in more 2-for-1 counters post board but if I am fighting off creatures, I swap it with Force of Negation or vs storm I do add the 4th FoW. Sometimes it's good to flush out the 3rd spell for Mindbreak Trap. And last but not least, there is the possibility of reducing combo pieces and be a control tempo deck with a reactive combo.

    I feel that the maindeck is sweet, the sideboard is the ugliest stepsister but you let me know.

    All in all, I'm still rusty as hell with this, but it's my pet deck, always was, always will be. Now, older, not wiser, and certainly much less competitive, you guys can give me inputs, tips and try this one out competitively or not, just don't get tattoos for "Solidarity💙4ever" please 🤪 Seriously: it's Legacy, anything can happen.

    Thanks!

  13. #4113
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphus View Post
    Hello mates,
    ...

    Thanks!
    Hello Seraphus,

    I'm playing with almost the same setup:

    4 Reset
    3 Remand
    3 Prismatic Vista
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Opt
    1 Mission Briefing
    3 Meditate
    11 Island
    4 High Tide
    4 Force of Will
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Snap
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Flusterstorm
    4 Consider
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    4 Accumulated Knowledge

    1) 3 meditate 1 BSZ 4 AK. "Consider" is a beast. The synergy it brings is really interesting instead of 4 Opt
    2) With all those aggro decks, I like playing 3 snap
    3) I tried "Mystic Sanctuary" and I disliked it. We cannot afford losing a land to wasteland.

    My two cents,

    Ralf

  14. #4114
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Feels like in light of Consider especially you should be running Memory Deluge over Meditate. Feels like it's increasingly hard to ignore Meditate's drawback being basically gg in a Murktide Meta.
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
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  15. #4115
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Hey guys,

    So, my take on these:

    Memory Deluge:

    It might end up being a quality over quantity for Memory Deluge but for me, Meditate:
    A) with cmc = 3 (-1 than it takes to cast Deluge),
    B) the draw quantity (4 cards vs 2; selective draws can be found in Brainstorm, Mission, Snapcaster, Opt, etc),
    C) its usefulness during combo (shorter CMC, etc)
    D) resourcefulness - you are looking at the same 4 cards, thou, a drawback of 1 turn, but you just need to know how to play with it in mind. What I am trying to say is: you might not even be able to fit it in in the play.

    Now, my opinion to Ralf's list:

    You're making our grave an asset to our opponents. Yes, Consider's synergy with AK is much better than Opt's, however, Opt is in itself better than Consider because, and this is my opinion, put into your grave not only gives more options to your opponents as mentioned, but also, burns our own bridges to set up combo-ing - it doesn't feed the Mage, which is the only other reason to put stuff into grave. The mage is fed by early plays and cards played during combo, I have no issues with a turn 3 Snapcaster into Opt/Brainstrom and later on Sap + Snapcaster + whatever is needed. Mission Brief can feed itself, so, no need.

    Opt and similar cards are only absolutely necessary because we have an absolute need to land drop turns 1, 2 and 3. Then, what Opt and Consider do is cantrip selectively. In other words: CMC 1 draw engines are here for 1 purpose above all - guarantee land drops, but if you're not doing so, you'll grave instead (Consider) of bottom (Opt) the resources that come in between.

    With that said, I don't like AK's need for 2-3 conditional building factors: it needs an AK's copy or more, therefore, needs Consider to boost its value, further, the need to find land drops hence, a 2 cmc card that doesn't do much for early/limited combo.
    In fact, for me, the necessity of early land dropping is so crucial that I've added 1 Peek (currently being 1 Visions from Beyond - highest efficiency with split combo, which cuts the impact and dependency of Meditate or Thirst post 1st combo and is a card that Snapcaster or Mission turn into a star).

    About Snap:

    Indeed, agreed, I just don't know what do I want to swap or if I want to swap anything for it. Turnabout vs Teferi is a beauty, Snap is circumstantial.

    Mystic Sanctuary:

    Well, I like to remove Surgical targets, I like to be able to Remand + Brain Freeze (or other spells), I like to be sure of which card I will draw when things start to go south... Still, yes, absolutely, I just wrote a couple paragraphs about the importance of lands in play 😅🤣 yes, circumstantially it is a bad card with a meta riddled with Wastelands which have no other targets on our side. Somehow, I had matches where I was glad I had the option to use its ability even if that means one less land in play.

    In the end we have a similar approach with aggressively combo, but I don't like the small nuance of having it going through a graveyard pathway if we can just count on playing the hand+draws.

    😊

  16. #4116
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Nice to see old school lists (Reset, Snap) instead of SpiralTide

    Back in 2012 I loved abusing the whole Snapcaster High Tide -> Snap Snapcaster -> Snapcaster Snap -> flashback Snap Snapcaster -> shenanigans to cheese wins off minimal resources.

    In the current meta full of cheap removal and Pyroblasts, do you find your Snap targets get killed in response often causing you to fizzle? With 0 Wish 1 Turnabout it seems low on untaps if you can't rely on Snap to resolve (all-in on finding Reset). Has it been an issue?

  17. #4117
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Nice to see old school lists (Reset, Snap) instead of SpiralTide

    Back in 2012 I loved abusing the whole Snapcaster High Tide -> Snap Snapcaster -> Snapcaster Snap -> flashback Snap Snapcaster -> shenanigans to cheese wins off minimal resources.

    In the current meta full of cheap removal and Pyroblasts, do you find your Snap targets get killed in response often causing you to fizzle? With 0 Wish 1 Turnabout it seems low on untaps if you can't rely on Snap to resolve (all-in on finding Reset). Has it been an issue?
    Well, I will speak for myself here, I haven't used Snap focused singularly on Snapcaster. More often than not, due to clocking from creatures, Snap as been a tool pre combo (bounce treat EOT, play other cantrips) and not the main untap engine during combo. The fact is, Snap works both ways, it has synergy pre combo and during combo (the later being focused on Snapcaster in 70% of the time). To depend on Snap as the main untap engine falls only to a specific situation, when I am pressured to do so.
    Last edited by Seraphus; 09-08-2022 at 05:59 AM. Reason: Typos

  18. #4118
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphus View Post

    Now, my opinion to Ralf's list:

    You're making our grave an asset to our opponents. Yes, Consider's synergy with AK is much better than Opt's, however, Opt is in itself better than Consider because, and this is my opinion, put into your grave not only gives more options to your opponents as mentioned, but also, burns our own bridges to set up combo-ing - it doesn't feed the Mage, which is the only other reason to put stuff into grave. The mage is fed by early plays and cards played during combo, I have no issues with a turn 3 Snapcaster into Opt/Brainstrom and later on Sap + Snapcaster + whatever is needed. Mission Brief can feed itself, so, no need.

    Opt and similar cards are only absolutely necessary because we have an absolute need to land drop turns 1, 2 and 3. Then, what Opt and Consider do is cantrip selectively. In other words: CMC 1 draw engines are here for 1 purpose above all - guarantee land drops, but if you're not doing so, you'll grave instead (Consider) of bottom (Opt) the resources that come in between.

    With that said, I don't like AK's need for 2-3 conditional building factors: it needs an AK's copy or more, therefore, needs Consider to boost its value, further, the need to find land drops hence, a 2 cmc card that doesn't do much for early/limited combo.
    In fact, for me, the necessity of early land dropping is so crucial that I've added 1 Peek (currently being 1 Visions from Beyond - highest efficiency with split combo, which cuts the impact and dependency of Meditate or Thirst post 1st combo and is a card that Snapcaster or Mission turn into a star).

    In the end we have a similar approach with aggressively combo, but I don't like the small nuance of having it going through a graveyard pathway if we can just count on playing the hand+draws.

    😊
    4 Reset
    3 Remand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Mission Briefing
    4 Meditate
    8 Island
    4 High Tide
    4 Force of Will
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Snap
    3 Scalding Tarn
    4 Consider
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Opt
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    1 Turnabout

    SB: 2 Ravenous Trap
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
    SB: 1 Rebuild
    SB: 3 Dress Down
    SB: 2 Brazen Borrower

    Here is my take:

    1) Consider is better than Opt. I have played Opt for years before they print Consider.
    It feeds AK and fill the same role as Opt. If there is a card you don't want it goes to the yard. It improves your draw engine: If you threw a land, this is one less land you'll have a chance to draw on a meditate during your combo turn (with Opt, the land stays in the deck...). And I don't get your "it doesn't feed the mage". Ofc it does, the card goes straight to the yard.

    2) 10 fetchs. Period. It decreases your fizzle rate. Even if you end up fetching just one more time compare with 6,7 or 8 fetchs, it is worth doing so. Drawing 3 lands off a meditate during your combo turn is back-breaking.

    3) AK, AK, AK way to go. Flusterstorm MD are clunky at best. Here again, fizzle rate is too high MD without it. @Seraphus, look at your CMC 3 curve. It is awful compare to mine. AK just replaced Impulse. Thirst for discovery is too high (CMC speaking).

    Why am I saying the above ?

    Not playing Cunning wish, forces you to draw/see more of your deck (mathematically speaking). This version is amazing but everytime I combo I know that I might have to draw my entire deck to kill the opponent. And that's why I put so much effort into drawing power so that I know once I took off I can go BONANZA because I'll be able to draw my entire deck (on 4 lands).

    Give it a shot :)

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  1. Ralf