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Thread: [Deck] Solidarity

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep6er View Post
    Actually, no, my name is spelled "Gearhart". Counter-intuitive, I know. It's not like I chose it.
    Actually, yes. I quoted the false spelling. All other instances of your name are spelled correctly, as far as I can see.
    "My sky is darker than thine!"
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  2. #22
    Please read my signature.

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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Huh, well I'll be.

    Fair enough. I missed that on my read through. Hats off to you sir!

    LOLZ. The best thing is that I always look for my name in things that I read. Way to drop the ball, me.

    In that case, I owe you a high five. Unfortunately, you're like way out in not-America, aren't you. Seems like this is going to be difficult.
    For the foreseeable future, expect to see less of me. I've lost my internet connection, and so I'll only be able to get on by siphoning free Wi-Fi from the surrounding areas. Which isn't always consistent.

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  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    @ Van Phanel: The primer looks excellent (i haven't read it all as i'm at work but i'll be printing it and read it during coffee break!). Thanks for putting it together.

    I have a question for Solidarity players with good tournament experience. I'm still considering going to GP: Chicago (flight prices are fluctuating quite a lot but i'm hoping to get a decent deal) and if i do, i'd be playing Solidarity. I explored several alternatives but i'm just more comfortable with Solidarity and have much more experience with it than any others. However, the question is, is Solidarity a solid choice for a GP, having no byes? The first few rounds will just be about navigating through all sorts of randomness!

  4. #24

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Good job van phanel

    I'ts really a nice primer =)

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    thanks for an wonderful primer.

  6. #26

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Mictlantecuhtli View Post
    @ Van Phanel: The primer looks excellent (i haven't read it all as i'm at work but i'll be printing it and read it during coffee break!). Thanks for putting it together.

    I have a question for Solidarity players with good tournament experience. I'm still considering going to GP: Chicago (flight prices are fluctuating quite a lot but i'm hoping to get a decent deal) and if i do, i'd be playing Solidarity. I explored several alternatives but i'm just more comfortable with Solidarity and have much more experience with it than any others. However, the question is, is Solidarity a solid choice for a GP, having no byes? The first few rounds will just be about navigating through all sorts of randomness!
    I think that in a sea ofrandomness Solidarity is a good ship. It is a combo deck, so it wins all sort of random aggro (WW, death and taxes...). It also wins to the random control decks (The rock and standstill for example). And even could beneficiate from a noob aggro control opponent. If you expect a lot of random, solidarity is a good option.
    But if the GP is full of aggro control (knowing how much americans love threshold), then maybe is a mistake. Personaly if I were to the GP I would play this deck (not saying is the best option, it's a personal preference)

  7. #27
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    A dumb question: if you are going for the drawstep kill can you combo out before they draw a card, or is drawing a card the first thing that happens in the draw step?

    This obviously would kill the opponent immediately.

  8. #28
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    The drawstep actually begins by drawing a card. So you can never use Reset before your opponent draws a card.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    You can kill them in their upkeep step BEFORE their draw! If you want to do that, however, you can't use Reset. Everything else works just fine.
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  10. #30

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    This might be more of a "works better in Finland than in the rest of the world" thing, but against people who appear less knowledgeable about the legacy metagame, I tend to bluff MUC.

    Now in Finland people have always been biased towards control decks, especially in the older formats so everyone is well aware of MUC, but Solidarity is more of a surprise.

    Winning "out of blue" makes it just so much easier.
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  11. #31

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    But then is just better to kill him in your turn before he untaps anything. You can even tap all his lands with turnabout at the end of his turn and then proceed to combo in your turn (but then you need 3-4 turnabouts)

  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by deviant View Post
    This might be more of a "works better in Finland than in the rest of the world" thing, but against people who appear less knowledgeable about the legacy metagame, I tend to bluff MUC.
    Funny, I normally do the same thing.

    I won against 5c Loam Control at the Dutch Legacy Champs because I thrashtalked about finding B2B not fast enough and stuff. He ate up all his ressources because he wanted to get rid of it.

    Sadly, multiple Brain Freezes are faster than imaginary blue enchantments.

  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I forgot, but there are always some mono-black or B/x aggro decks around. Maybe those should be in the matchup analysis as well? I played abit against it today, and found Twincast to be quite (not too) useful. I went about 4-5 I think, so it's probably slightly negative, but winnable.

    Board:
    -1 Wish
    -1 Remand
    -1 Impulse

    +2 Twincast
    +1 Meditate (this seems good, FoW their threats, Meditate for new cards. Doesn't work if the opponent plays too many creatures though.)
    "Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."

    -Ertai, wizard adept

    http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi

  14. #34

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Taurelin View Post
    You can kill them in their upkeep step BEFORE their draw! If you want to do that, however, you can't use Reset. Everything else works just fine.
    About that... does anyone have any idea where the "use only after opponent's upkeep" clause on Reset comes from ??

    It's not like they could have predicted this deck... there was no kill condition printed at that point (no BF, no Stroke of Genius... and possible replacement Braingeyser is a sorcery anyway).

    Just wondering.

  15. #35

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I guess that was meant to press down the power level of the card and avoid it being abused in some unfair combo deck (oh the irony).

    It might have seemed too "broken" if you could have used it at any time.
    Or they just felt like doing something "original" with it. Just look at some old cards, they just make no sense..
    Quote Originally Posted by Race War View Post
    <Carnage> fuck idiot learn education

  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinch View Post
    But then is just better to kill him in your turn before he untaps anything. You can even tap all his lands with turnabout at the end of his turn and then proceed to combo in your turn (but then you need 3-4 turnabouts)
    This would make it impossible to use Reset at all. When you start comboing of during your opponents upkeep, you can float your mana to their draw step and proceed there.


    Also, I have a (very) short tournament report from today:

    Legacy at Nuernberg, Dezember 12th (Edit: actually 6th; my bad), 2008:

    24 players

    I played my usual mainboard but as Dredge had won the last two tournaments at Nuernberg and Team America sees play as well, I decided to give Disrupt a go in the following sideboard:

    1 Stroke
    1 Meditate
    1 Turnabout
    2 Wipe Away
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Twincast
    3 Disrupt
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Rebuild
    1 Mystical Tutor



    Round 1 against Reanimator:

    In game one, my opponent's neighbour sees that he plays Yawgmoth's Will. Two of them. It turns out that was his first tournament since some years ago and he had no idea that he wasn't allowed to play them.

    In game 2. I get to Remand an Exhume and can bonce his Reya with Command a turn later. I go off on like turn 6 or 7.

    1-0-0

    Round 2 against Quinn (pandabaer):

    Solidarity is pretty much the only matchup where Quinn has no chance. I wreck him in game 1 and in game 2 I am stuck on three lands but find my fourth land just in time. When he tries for a Chant (Grindstone and 6 lands in play) I can go off. I kill him and he didn't even have the Painter. This match actually was the first time I got to use my foil Stroke of Genius that I got just this week (from donnhart).

    2-0-0

    Round 3 against U-W-b Cunning Landstill (Wasteland):

    He is pretty much the only Landstill player that I fear. Anyway, he doesn't do much but beating with a Factory in game 1 and I go off past three counters, a Cunning Wish and Academy Ruins at some point.

    In game 2 an early Meddling Mage and my lack of a fourth land kill me.

    In game three he gets Elspeth and beats me to two. I hold High Tide, Reset, Meditate, Force, Twincast, Brain Freeze, Brain Freeze with a lot of lands in play. He lets High Tide resolve and thinks he is save as he can counter five times. Turns out he isn't. Storm really is unfair sometimes.

    3-0-0

    Round 4: Dredge: ID
    Round 5: Belcher: ID

    Quarters against R-b-g Goblins (Muradin):

    He doesn't have Lackey and I find High Tide in time to win before he could kill me on his turn 5 or 6. In game 2, I neither find my fourth land, nor High Tide and lose to his beats backed up by a Chalice/1. In game 3 I chose to let his Chalice resolve on turn 3 after Remanding it once as I have the Command ready. His Warchief next turn hits me for two and I bounce his Chalice. When he tries to replay it, I go off and kill him.

    Semis against U-W-b Landstill (Wasteland again):

    The first game is really weird. I mull to five and he mulls to four. We trade some spells and counters but when a Cryptic Command on Brainstorm leaves him with no relevant cards to my five cards in hand, he concedes right away. Game 2 is just as boring. He resolves a Meddling Mage on High Tide and a Standstill, but I get to wish for Wipe Away in response. I have three lands in hand, so I just make my landdrops while he beats for four a turn with Mage + Factory. When I have 7 cards, I Peek him and see that he has only a Brainstorm as relevant card (Standstill, 2 Hydroblast and 3 Lands to go along with it). After I Wipe his Mage Away, he tries to play his Brainstorm and I use the opportunity to go off in response (I had two lands untapped and Tide + Reset in hand).

    Finals against Dredge (Jan Schmidt):

    As Jan had won the last two tournaments at Nuernberg, it was about time to end his winning streak. I keep a hand without FoW but with a possible turn 3-kill and he starts with Putrid Imp + LED. When he dredges an Analysis into his graveyard on turn two, I concede right away. In game 2 I keep a good hand with FoW and he goes for draw discard dredge. His Troll dredges nothing twice (he literally didn't find anything relevant: no dredger, no Moeba, no Therapy, no Bridge) my hand gets better and even when he does find some relevant cards on his third dredge, it is too late and I go off.

    For game 3 I get lucky and he has to mulligan to three. I keep four lands, Opt, Impulse, FoW (I would have mulliganed this hand, but as he went down to three, I figured that one FoW should be enough). For his first spell, a Therapy on himself, I have the Disrupt ready and the game is all but over from there. A mulligan to three is just too hard to overcome.


    I get to win a FBB Taiga and trade it for some Solidarity-Foils right away (who has some spare foil fetchlands?)


    I'm going to test more with Disrupts as they felt pretty good in the deck. I'm still not sure about a default sideboard configuration though.

    Stroke, Meditate, Turnabout, 2 Wipe Away, 2 Echoing Truth, 2 Twincast, 1 Rebuild are the skeleton of all my late sideboards, but the remaining five slots are pretty flexible depending on playstyle and meta, I think.

    - Van
    Last edited by Van Phanel; 12-08-2008 at 08:39 AM.

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Phanel View Post
    Stroke, Meditate, Turnabout, 2 Wipe Away, 2 Echoing Truth, 2 Twincast, 1 Rebuild are the skeleton of all my late sideboards, but the remaining five slots are pretty flexible depending on playstyle and meta, I think.
    I'm sure Divert was suggested and dismissed at some point in the old thread but i have toyed around with it lately in testing against Team America and UWb landstill with Vindicate. It is very good when not expected and it will often buy you at least a turn against decks with hand/land disruption.

    EDIT: @Van:You probably meant the 6th rather than 12th of December?
    Last edited by Mictlantecuhtli; 12-07-2008 at 07:39 AM. Reason: I'm annoying like that.

  18. #38
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Mictlantecuhtli View Post
    I'm sure Divert was suggested and dismissed at some point in the old thread but i have toyed around with it lately in testing against Team America and UWb landstill with Vindicate. It is very good when not expected and it will often buy you at least a turn against decks with hand/land disruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me in the locked solidarity thread
    Against Sinkhole, Hymn:
    Divert shines, Disrupt is great, Spell Snare is good, Force Spike is passable.

    Against Counterspells targeting High Tide:
    Spell Snare is good. Disrupt might be awesome. Divert might work, Force Spike probably won't.

    Against Meddling Mage:
    Spell Snare is great. Force Spike may or may not work. Divert and Disrupt are useless.

    Against Force of Will:
    Disrupt might be awesome, Divert and Force Spike are probably useless, Spell Snare is useless.

    Against Duress:
    Disrupt shines. Force spike is good. Spell Snare and Divert are useless.

    Against Vindicate:
    Divert is simply great. Disrupt shines. Force spike is good. Spell Snare useless.

    Against Ritual -> Specter
    Force spike is great, disrupt shines, spell snare and divert useless.

    Against Ritual -> duress, Hymn
    Disrupt shines, force spike ok, spell snare and divert useless (they discard 'em with duress, and then hymn)

    Against Cabal therapy:
    Divert and disrupt shines, force spike might be ok, spell snare useless.

    Against Pyrostatic Pillar:
    Spell snare shines, force spike might be ok, divert and disrupt useless.
    The fact that thoughtseize is widely more played than duress nowadays is a point more for Divert.

    Divert is actually the best sideboard card you could run in the black based control or aggrocontrol matchup.
    Divert makes a +1 card advantage against Thoughtseize, Vindicate, Sinkhole and a +2 card advantage against Hymn.
    Disrupt makes a +1 card advantage against Duress, Thoughtseize, Vindicate, Sinkhole, Hymn, Dark Ritual, Stifle. The downside is that sometimes the opponent have a spare mana.

    In other matchups: Divert is quite good against Chant (combo decks), but disrupt is quite good against combo decks too, distrupting their first brainstorms/ponders/mysticals/duress is golden. Disrupt is also good against Dredge.

    In sum, I'd play disrupt over divert, but if your meta is filled with black based aggrodontrol, then divert is going to be better.
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  19. #39

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenOne View Post
    Divert makes a +1 card advantage against Thoughtseize, Vindicate, Sinkhole and a +2 card advantage against Hymn.
    Little nitpick ; but against Hymn, you could even consider it a +3 CA (you turn a -1 CA into a +2 CA). That's even better than Ancestral : )

  20. #40
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    I noticed that Stifle wasn't mentioned in the primer, although it often sees play as a Wishboard card.

    On a side note, right now I am considering a version with only 4 Fetchlands, 4 Remand and 4 Cunning Wish (all other card choices are standard). A bigger number of Fetchlands means more trouble with Stifle (and Moon effects to a lesser extend) and more pain, which can be relevant sometimes. I find Remand as a great tool against combo, buying you enough time to setup your kill in response to theirs (tested a lot against SI, works wonders). The 4 Cunning Wishes might seem strange, as I haven't seen anyone play that number, but they improve the chance of getting rid of annoying permanents (you know, CB, MM, 3sphere & Chalice, the list goes on), while serving as a great setup spell precombo as well.

    EDIT: A question about the people with tournament experience with the deck; do you write down/memorize the cards put at the bottom of the library every time you use such an effect?

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