[Deck] Solidarity

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Any argument about why you should play sorceries or splash a color in Solidarity is an argument in favor of another deck. I don't think the people making these arguments actually understand why Solidarity is a good deck. If you expect to have to go off turn three, then Solidarity is a bad deck. Almost every other remotely viable combo deck is better at going off turn three. The only reason Solidarity is ever worth playing is because you can wait to go off until you know you need to. It's not being faster or more resilient that really wins Solidarity games; it's being able to wait and force the opponent to actually get a lock or kill in place before you can combo off, and thus giving yourself those extra land drops and card draws that make your other cards better. Disrupt, Merchant Scroll all fail to contribute to this.

Here's the list I've been running lately:

11x Island
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand

4x Brainstorm
4x Opt
4x Impulse
4x Cunning Wish
3x Thirst for Knowledge

3x High Tide
3x Reset
4x Turnabout
3x Meditate
2x Flash of Insight
4x Force of Will
3x Twincast
1x Brain Freeze

SB:
Brain Freeze
Meditate
High Tide
Reset
Twincast
Hibernation
Misdirection
Echoing Truth
Stroke of Genius
Careful Consideration
Rebuild
4x Wipe Away

As per the above, some of the ability to go off very early was sacrificed to make turn 4 as reliable as possible. Hence using Cunning Wish as a tutor, for example. It is simply unbelievably convenient to be able to just Wish for whatever you're missing; having played this for a bit, it actually seems insane to me that the deck ever used to maindeck all 4 High Tides.

[Bahamuth]

Any argument about why you should play sorceries or splash a color in Solidarity is an argument in favor of another deck.

I see no reason for this to be true.

I don't think the people making these arguments actually understand why Solidarity is a good deck.

I belive that after playing this deck since about 2007 and having done well with it, I understand this deck pretty well, and that makes me see this deck is not good enough to compete in the current meta. I want to play this deck as Solidarity, and I want to be able to be more aggressive. I see no reason that Ponder and Scroll would make my control plan worse.

If you expect to have to go off turn three, then Solidarity is a bad deck.

Again I see no reason for this if I can have a decent control plan as well.

[ScatmanX]

Nice report ScatmanX! Congrats on the finish. I just have some questions though:
- When you were boarding did you board out Remands for Veil's? I figured you would since you can't really use them post-Veil.
- How was FoI overall? Was it any better than PtD?
- Was Peek any better than the 4th Opt (maybe against Breakfast) or did you just Veil and not need it?

- I should, but I was stupid and did not think about that...
- Up until then I was with 2 BF and 2 FoI. Now, with a faster meta, I think PtD deserve a few slots. FoI is awesome, but right now I think 1 is the right number. They both seve different roles, therefore should not be compared. FoI did won me 1 or 2 games, but made me lost 1 (because i didn't rtfc...) where PtD did help me win a few games also...
- All Peek made me was feel more secure. I think that, if I play in more tournaments, it will be cut, once I'll have a better understanding of the deck, and what to do with it. Also, Veil is there for us now, so no big worries here...

[Olesch]

I have been reading the last 30 pages of this thread, but I have a question.

I would like to know how this deck handles the shuffle effects of Emrakul and Progenitus?

I know that you can answer on the shuffle effect and continue, but what if they have more than one Emrakul or Progenitus?

[mans0011]

I have been reading the last 30 pages of this thread, but I have a question.

I would like to know how this deck handles the shuffle effects of Emrakul and Progenitus?

I know that you can answer on the shuffle effect and continue, but what if they have more than one Emrakul or Progenitus?

Stroke of Genius by way of Cunning Wish usually doest he trick. You just play the other storm copies in response to the trigger (Emrakul) or you just ignore Progenitus/Darksteel Colossus/what have you and then stroke them out. ( sounds so naughty, hmm? )

[Olesch]

In order to understand I need to know one thing first.

When the copies of Brain Freeze goes on the stack, I don't need to choose targets untill I resolve them?

In a scenario with Emrakul it would look like this:

Brain Freeze on the stack with 10 copies.

Resolve BF 1: I target opponent, he flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 2: I target myself, flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 3: I target Opponent, he flips Emrakul as card number 2. I then choose to respond on Emrakuls shuffle effect by resolving BF 4.

Resolve BF 4: response on Emrakul effect targeting opponent, flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 5: I target opponent, he flips Emrakul as number 3. I then choose to respond on Emrakuls shuffle effect by resolving BF 6.

Resolve BF 6: response on Emrakul effect targeting opponent, flips 3 random cards

..........

Resolve BF 10: I target opponent, he flips 3 random cards and is decked.

Resolve BF 11 and in response cast Stroke to force my opponent to draw a card and then he dies.

Is this correct?

[Hopo]

The top item of the stack always resolves first. You need to make yourself aware of how and in which order things happen in stack and when casting stuff.

If you have ten copies of Brainfreeze on stack and the first one reveals Emrakul, then Emrakul's trigger goes on top of the stack and resolves therefore before the rest of the storm copies. This means that first opponent's graveyard is shuffledback to library and then you continue resolving storm copies.

[GreenOne]

Is this correct?

No, first you have to declare the target for the original Brain Freeze spell. Then resolve the trigger of Storm ability. Once sotrm resolve, the copies go on the stack, and you declare targets for every copy. Then they start to resolve.
If Emrakul is flipped, the 15/15's ability goes on stack, over the remaining copies of brainfreeze. This means that his ability will resolve BEFORE the other copies of BF. You still have the chance to play other things in response (like remand on BF, play BF again).

[dontbiteitholmes]

In order to understand I need to know one thing first.

When the copies of Brain Freeze goes on the stack, I don't need to choose targets untill I resolve them?

In a scenario with Emrakul it would look like this:

Brain Freeze on the stack with 10 copies.

Resolve BF 1: I target opponent, he flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 2: I target myself, flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 3: I target Opponent, he flips Emrakul as card number 2. I then choose to respond on Emrakuls shuffle effect by resolving BF 4.

Resolve BF 4: response on Emrakul effect targeting opponent, flips 3 random cards

Resolve BF 5: I target opponent, he flips Emrakul as number 3. I then choose to respond on Emrakuls shuffle effect by resolving BF 6.

Resolve BF 6: response on Emrakul effect targeting opponent, flips 3 random cards

..........

Resolve BF 10: I target opponent, he flips 3 random cards and is decked.

Resolve BF 11 and in response cast Stroke to force my opponent to draw a card and then he dies.

Is this correct?

I don't think so.
You play Brain Freeze, it goes on top of the stack (original) all copies then go on top of it on the stack above it, lets say 9 copies. You let BF #1-4 or whatever resolve and on BF#4 he flips Emrakul. Now the shuffle effect is on top of the stack above all the BF copies as well as the original BF and will resolve first. At this point you either make them draw out their library for the win, Remand your Brain Freeze and recast it and put more BF triggers on stack ontop of shuffle trigger then make them draw out before shuffle trigger resolves, or let the shuffle trigger resolve and let some of the BF copies resolve again after they shuffle up (may be your best option if for example you have 10 copies of BF on stack and the first one hits Emrakul). Of course there are more ways to do it but those are the main options. With the way Solidarity works it's impossible to go through all the possible plays.

[Van Phanel]

I have been reading the last 30 pages of this thread, but I have a question.

I would like to know how this deck handles the shuffle effects of Emrakul and Progenitus?

I know that you can answer on the shuffle effect and continue, but what if they have more than one Emrakul or Progenitus?

Kill with Hunting Pack

[Olesch]

So to conclude. The time when I cast Brain Freeze, all the storm copies goes on top and I need to choose targets for the storm copies as well when they hit the stack.

But for the FoI trick with BF, I then need to determine in advance how many storm copies should target me and how many should target my opponent and then resolve the stack?

But how would you guys recommend to handle Emrakul in general? A little more discussion of this would be great!

[largebrandon]

So to conclude. The time when I cast Brain Freeze, all the storm copies goes on top and I need to choose targets for the storm copies as well when they hit the stack.

But for the FoI trick with BF, I then need to determine in advance how many storm copies should target me and how many should target my opponent and then resolve the stack?

But how would you guys recommend to handle Emrakul in general? A little more discussion of this would be great!

When you play BF, its storm ability will trigger as a triggered ability. Then, if it resolved, all the copies will go on the stack. You then choose a target for each one. Usually, to save time you can say "All to you". But, you may have a few go to you if you would like for FoI tricks. But usually at that point, you are winning anyway and no need. Though if you really need it, then I would only do maximum 5 copies of BF to do so. Any more than that, you won't have any cards left in your deck.

Second question: Emrakul is no different than Gaea's Blessing. If you BF them, and mid BF, Emrakul or GB goes into the GY, their ability will trigger. In response you can BF them again with another BF or Remand your own BF, then Stroke them to death before their trigger resolves.

[ScatmanX]

Round 4: Cephalid Breakfast

Game 1: He starts a little slow, with 2 Cabal Therapy. He then finds Shusher, that I promptly ignore, due to Repeal and SB Veil. Turn 5 I guess, he Therapys me, knowing what I have, So I go off, protected. I get do do everything I want, and BF for a lot. He starts revealing, and eventually gets an Emrakul. I then float some more mana, Wishes and Stroke him for lethal.
Game 2: He gets an early en-Kor, and after trying a Cephalid, I peek, and see only 1 counter. So I Fow, he Fow, I PtD, and FoW again. Then I have a lot of time, and by turn 7-8, with 7 lands in play, I go off Veil protected, and get to stack my deck for a letal Stroke of 73.

Well, that's how I did it...

[Seraphus]

Hi there folks its been a while...

As Olesh suggest, a little more arguments a debate about Emrakul must be placed on the table...

First to solve this problem, counting that there is only one copy of it in the opponent deck, we have the gae's blesing like solution, brainfreeze + remand or other Brainfreeze + stroke. However decks like Aeon Bridge always have multiple copies of it. With that in mind and with others benefits (like against Sensei's, Aether Vial, Grim lavamacer, Jace/ Planeswalker, Fetchs, Survival, Loyal Retaineers, Spellstuter Sprite, Vendilion Clique and others) I started to use Stifle and Trickbind on SB.

Believe me when I say that it works very well...

Regards to you all

Ps: In my opinion Splashing or introduce soceries isn't the right step to go forward...

[i-never-smile]

I'm rebuilding Solidarity at the moment, and I plan on taking it to a bunch of Legacy events around Southern California and maybe other nearby areas. I love that this metagame, without Mystical Tutor, seems to be very friendly to Reset-Tide combo. The only real problem match-ups appear to be Merfolk and Counter-Top, but I think those could be solved TBH.

What I am curious about is Flash of Insight. Do people still play this in Solidarity? Does it still work? I remember it being a really good B-plan to freeze yourself and then FoI to stack most of your deck, but did Cunning Wish's M10 changes make this a significantly weaker plan? FoI is also card advantage, but I don't like that it costs so much mana to do anything with it, when it's actually in your hand. For those who are experienced (Bahamuth, Vanphanel, etc.) and still playing the deck occasionally, where do you stand with FoI? I have skimmed recent pages of the thread, and hopefully I didn't miss a big discussion about this very card, but if I did then please point me in the right direction. Is it worth playing as a 1-of? 2-of?

[largebrandon]

I'm rebuilding Solidarity at the moment, and I plan on taking it to a bunch of Legacy events around Southern California and maybe other nearby areas. I love that this metagame, without Mystical Tutor, seems to be very friendly to Reset-Tide combo. The only real problem match-ups appear to be Merfolk and Counter-Top, but I think those could be solved TBH.

What I am curious about is Flash of Insight. Do people still play this in Solidarity? Does it still work? I remember it being a really good B-plan to freeze yourself and then FoI to stack most of your deck, but did Cunning Wish's M10 changes make this a significantly weaker plan? FoI is also card advantage, but I don't like that it costs so much mana to do anything with it, when it's actually in your hand. For those who are experienced (Bahamuth, Vanphanel, etc.) and still playing the deck occasionally, where do you stand with FoI? I have skimmed recent pages of the thread, and hopefully I didn't miss a big discussion about this very card, but if I did then please point me in the right direction. Is it worth playing as a 1-of? 2-of?

I'm sure people will disagree with me, but FoI is my favourite card draw in the deck. You are able to cast it turn 3+ to gain a card, and when you are going off, it's the best card to have in the gy to get whatever you desire and to stack your deck if applicable. It's not 4x, but i think 2 is the right number to be efficient.

[Van Phanel]

When you play BF, its storm ability will trigger as a triggered ability. Then, if it resolved, all the copies will go on the stack. You then choose a target for each one. Usually, to save time you can say "All to you". But, you may have a few go to you if you would like for FoI tricks. But usually at that point, you are winning anyway and no need. Though if you really need it, then I would only do maximum 5 copies of BF to do so. Any more than that, you won't have any cards left in your deck.

Wrong.

If you have to Brain Freeze yourself always target yourself with all copies (or with enough to mill your entire library if you have more than that). The trick is that the copies resolve one by one and once you mill the Flash you can play it in response to the remaining BF copies. This gives you the maximum chance of hitting Flash of Insight. Even if you mill your entire library with the leftover Brain Freeze copies you will likely have resolved a Meditate at that point so your opponent dies from decking first.

Also kill with Hunting Pack.

[Vacrix]

I'm sure people will disagree with me, but FoI is my favourite card draw in the deck. You are able to cast it turn 3+ to gain a card, and when you are going off, it's the best card to have in the gy to get whatever you desire and to stack your deck if applicable. It's not 4x, but i think 2 is the right number to be efficient.

I hate this card exactly for this reason. 2U Draw a card is fucking horrible. Peer through the Depths does the same thing while setting up only you are sure to grab something useful off the top, choosing from 5 instead of 1. Post-going off, you are already winning, who cares... I've never fizzed because my Peer wasn't a FoI and have enjoyed having that extra mana that I didn't use to cast FoI to cast an additional Opt or Brainstorm. Having +4 Impulse to interact with BF is disgustingly good. Don't bother with it. Its outdated tech.

[i-never-smile]

I've been doing some testing today. This is the list that I'm working with, after updating it:

12 Island
6 Various Fetches

4 High Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt

4 Reset
4 Impulse
4 Remand
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Brain Freeze

3 Cunning Wish
4 Meditate

3 Turnabout
2 Cryptic Command
4 Force of Will

Sideboard under construction--I'm playing with about a 25-card board and gradually narrowing stuff down.

I'm experimenting with 4 maindeck Meditates because I always want to draw many of that card, all the time. In the sideboard, I'm testing Fact or Fiction and Thirst for Knowledge as the wish target for card advantage. FoF is pretty damn good, and so is drawing lots of Meditates....

I'm sure I could find room for another maindeck Brainfreeze, but I don't really seem to need it just yet. If anyone has some strong arguments for including 2 MD Freezes (aside from mini-comboing vs control), I'm interested in your opinions.

I'll probably take this deck to a tournament in a week and a half, if I can get myself a set of reasonably-priced Forces, Meditates, and Resets by then. I used to have this deck fully built, but over time I sold/traded off a lot of stuff to build a Cube and to pay bills...but now I'm selling my Cube, so it's time to get Solidarity back! Hopefully I can play a tournament soon, and not play like a donk in it.

[Bahamuth]

If I were to run the original version, I'd definitely run it with FoI. Drawing into the Brain Freeze is going to suck so much when you don't play it, and FoI is one of your best card in any matchup where you want to play control. I always wanted to see one when I wasn't playing against either combo or aggro.