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Thread: GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!! - Live Coverage

  1. #41
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by godryk View Post
    Not to be mean, but getting 9 points with 3 byes isn't that much spectuacular, now it's time for them to show what they've got.

    loool , I dont think this -.-"""

    sry people

  2. #42
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by bruno_tiete View Post
    I might be wrong, but I believe the choice to reveal or not is made upon resolution of CB's trigger. Therefore, the guy could stack CB, brainstorm and choose not to reveal a card.

    What happened there is that optional triggers have as default "I put it on the stack and choose to do nothing" if you forget to mention otherwise. Even if mentioning, the guy would still get the choice later.
    Pat was a little unpleasant, IMHO.
    I'm wondering the same thing myself, the more I think about it. CB will trigger no matter what, right? Then when you resolve the trigger, that's when you decide to reveal. Is this wrong?
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  3. #43

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    No, when the spell is played, you get the option to put the ability "reveal the top card of your library" on the stack. So Pat (and the judge) was right.

  4. #44
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Hm... Brian Gustafson mentioned in the blog for Poor Nate Price.. Though there may be more than one Brian Gustafson there, that is Watcher487's carmate and a fellow Albany player.

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  5. #45
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by bruno_tiete View Post
    I might be wrong, but I believe the choice to reveal or not is made upon resolution of CB's trigger. Therefore, the guy could stack CB, brainstorm and choose not to reveal a card.

    What happened there is that optional triggers have as default "I put it on the stack and choose to do nothing" if you forget to mention otherwise. Even if mentioning, the guy would still get the choice later.
    Pat was a little unpleasant, IMHO.
    You may be right, in that case I stand corrected and Pat acted like an ass. I must say that I hope this is not going to be a trend in Legacy tournaments from now on or they will be a lot more unpleasant.

    Hm... Brian Gustafson mentioned in the blog for Poor Nate Price.. Though there may be more than one Brian Gustafson there, that is Watcher487's carmate and a fellow Albany player.
    Turn 2 Progenitus. Niceeeeeeee >_<!

  6. #46
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by JeroenC View Post
    No, when the spell is played, you get the option to put the ability "reveal the top card of your library" on the stack. So Pat (and the judge) was right.
    If that's correct, then you cannot put the ability on the stack if you're not going to reveal anything.
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  7. #47
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Warning! Comp Rules ahead!

    404.1. A triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” The phrase containing one of these words is the trigger condition, which defines the trigger event.

    Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card.

    410.5. Some triggered abilities’ effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability’s option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. Likewise, triggered abilities that have an effect “unless” something is true or a player chooses to do something will go on the stack normally; the “unless” part of the ability is dealt with when the ability resolves.

    Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card.

    I disagree with Pat and the Judge here. Bruno & URABAHN have it right. Nothing like 'Competitive' behavior that's off base - I hope this doesn't become a precedent for this event.

  8. #48

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    You may be right, in that case I stand corrected and Pat acted like an ass. I must say that I hope this is not going to be a trend in Legacy tournaments from now on or they will be a lot more unpleasant.
    I'm sure this won't be happening in local events or casual play since it's very obvious that you meant to put CB's trigger on the stack. Having said that, though, Pat did not act like an ass. This is a Grand Prix. People should be playing their cards correctly. Pat made the right call by getting the judge.

    edit: Even if Pat and the judge's ruling are wrong (as they may be, from the rules above this post), my point is that he wasn't an ass - it's a GP.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Alex Khanin aka sauce on the Source is 8-0 in games w/ 12 pts. A few other Texans got 9 points on byes. I'm feeling a Texan in the top 8...maybe...
    I wonder what Pat would have done atleast the second time concerning CB if he wasn't behind.
    And turn 2 Progenitus! Wow!

  10. #50
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    VsTheWorld: 4-0.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg 'IdrA' Fields
    good sir, you appear to be somewhat lacking in intelligence. please refrain from posting until this is remedied, since it renders your opinions slightly less than correct and has a tendency to irritate more informed forum-goers.

  11. #51

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO

    Regarding the CB thing, the judge is not wrong. The orientation is that an optional trigger with a default action is not mentioned, the default action is taken. In Counterbalance's case, it's "do nothing". In Pacts case they are "Lose the game".
    I believe it goes like this:

    If CB triggers but you dont mention it, the rules presume you stacked it and chose to do nothing.

    If CB trigger and you mention it, you make your choice on resolution.

    If it was a mandatory trigger, it would be put on the stack and both players would be penalized.

    Triggers always go to the stack. It's just that forgeting than is the specific shortcut for choosing the default action. ("Do Nothing" for CB)

    Pat is "right" and so is the judge, but that is not very nice of him. He has the right no to be nice though.
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  12. #52
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Go BZK guys!
    I'm here to kick ass and play card games.

    BZK

  13. #53
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    What are sauce, VsTheWorld and other Sourcers doing well right now playing?

    Also, what's emidln's real name? I'd wish him making Day 2 so much...
    georgjorge
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  14. #54

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Who here is playing Aggro Loam? I want to see if any of the lists are doing well...the amount of Counter-Top mentioned leads me to believe there's a lot of Thresh, which is a pretty strong matchup for that deck barring the God Hand (tm) out of the opponent.

    Pinder has six points as of round three, so 2-1? 593 place. What does "OMW%" stand for?

    Opponent's Match-Win Percentage. It's part of calculating tie-breakers - Bardo
    (EDIT: thanks.)

    Also, Calosso is in third place after round 3?!

  15. #55
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    With regards to CB, if you choose to declare a spell or an ability without specifically stating the trigger is still on the stack, it's as if you have decided not to use it, and it has resolved.

    Ass or not, he's completely in the right to call the judge if the guy expects him to let him get away with that. I get faulted (and do the same) with opponents at weekly events all the time, let alone a GP.

    If you aren't going to learn to play your cards correctly, don't play them.
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    Slightly off topic, but where is the Nourishing Lich in the DTB Forum?

  16. #56
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Opponent match win percentage.

    Yeah you guys are right about Pat, it's a GP but I mean I hate Magic being about rules lawyering instead of clever playskill/deckchoice. That said, it's not necessarily wrong to be an ass.

  17. #57

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    Who here is playing Aggro Loam? I want to see if any of the lists are doing well...the amount of Counter-Top mentioned leads me to believe there's a lot of Thresh, which is a pretty strong matchup for that deck barring the God Hand (tm) out of the opponent.
    I was told in a brazilian forum that 4 out of 5 Brazilians are playing 2 cards away from my list which Luiz De Michielli played at Worlds. Carlos Romão, De Michielli himself included. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa was the dissident.

    I hope they do well even if most of them are not regular Legacy players.
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  18. #58
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Wow stop dissing on Chapin for knowing the rules. This is a big tournament so calling people on that stuff is supposed to happen.

  19. #59

    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bruno_tiete View Post
    I was told in a brazilian forum that 4 out of 5 Brazilians are playing 2 cards away from my list which Luiz De Michielli played at Worlds. Carlos Romão, De Michielli himself included. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa was the dissident.

    I hope they do well even if most of them are not regular Legacy players.
    The Worlds list was mediocre, though. Are they at least playing real dual lands?

  20. #60
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    Re: [Live Coverage] GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak. View Post
    Wow stop dissing on Chapin for knowing the rules. This is a big tournament so calling people on that stuff is supposed to happen.
    Really? Pat Chapin knew the rules? I thought we covered that earlier in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeless View Post
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