Perhaps dropping blue may be the best option, but c'mon, it's Brainstorm! I kinda feel very out of place when playing combo without brainstorms or maybe I'm just traditional. I haven't had problems against wastes so far. I've tried to build it with enough redundancy in the manabase to play through 1-2 wastelands. Bloodmoon on the other hand, is a different story.
I mainly test against Wasteland aggro (Like gobbos/Tribal). I also test against the decks that I own like Bant etc and I've found Bant exceptionally difficult to beat with the UR versions. I assume the opponent is fairly intelligent and would actually counter the Intuitions and not the Intuition targets. Since a topdeck welder can still weld back the components from the yard if Intuition resolves. I've found that if Bant Forces the intuitions and keeps STP/Pridemage for painter in response to activation, the MU is dreadful.
My UBW version is actually much better against this MU as mom/bob are a house. Against heavy disruption, Bob is invaluable and against aggro, he is a Phyrexian arena as you usually lose 0-1 life off him as the curve is so low. He is also a removal magnet which keeps removal of my painter against Control/Midrange.
I definitely miss the red blasts. They are so good. I may considering cutting the brainstorms for Redblasts and splashing red instead. I may have good MUs against decks with STP/Force but I sometimes just randomly die to a T2 Revoker on Grindstone. This is when the flexibility of Painter + REB is most valuable.
Thank you for your input. I was just thinking about Washout during one of my games where me and opponent were locked (i cant grind him or he had many many tokens). During the game I keep thinking how nice it would be to reset hahaOriginally Posted by PanderAlexander
Yes good point on the chalice. Havent had an opponent with chalice yet. I'll try that out next time i simulate.
I wanted to ask if anybody ever use wurm coil engines main deck? I've been testing that tech recently and it usually surprises the Rock decks or heavy creature decks when I cast it or weld it into play. (-1 LED and -1 Trinket) I know it depends on the meta but has any of you tried it?
Merfolk = Bye, effortless match
Can somebody concur to this as well? Personally I have the same experience
Goblins - Actually difficult, the mana denial, explosive power, and utility (incinerator is almost impossible to play around since it can't be countered and will kill Painter). It is important to play a very fast hand, the mid-late game is more favored for Goblins.
Yeah had that trouble with them as well. But I decided to plug in wurm coils and it helped out alot. Has anybody tried that tech?
Affinity - Pretty easy, fast clock and revoker/pithing and be annoying, but need a fast hand since they have a fast clock.
Dredge - I'm 8-0 in tournaments against Dredge, I always thought Welder with Tormod's would be cute but the game never gets that late.
Enchantress - Make sure to get REBs for annoying enchantments such as Runed Halo and Leyline of Sanctity.
I usually have trouble with the Leyline of Sanc. As it negates my intuitions and couldnt fetch key cards.
TES/ANT - In their favor, they can strip our lone FoW and go off faster than us. Do bring in REBs to counter Brainstorms and Ponders so you don't let them sculpt the perfect hand. Also Tormod's is a possibility to slow down cabal ritual and shut down iggy-loop. You have to have a faster hand, either they get lucky and have a great hand or you get lucky and have a great hand, see this video:
SCG L.A. Semi-Finals Painter vs TES
I get what you mean. Thank you for that input. I will take note of that. How about High Tide variations? I'm sure its the same advice?
Rock/Junk - 50/50, they got a ton of discard and creature kill, but if you can land Welder and protect him in the version I was playing that counteracts a lot of it.
[I]Thanks for clarifying that. I kept wondering if painter really had no chance against this deck. Been having alot of trouble with that deck archetype. As they counter most of my SB tech(emrakul) and most Main board guys die from the hate T.T[I]
Team America - they don't have many counters or creature kill, just overwhelm them, but becareful of wastelands and playing around daze (I.E. what you would do for Merfolk)
[I]Thank you i'll take note of that[I]
Zoo - Difficult, a ton of creature removal with a fast clock, only gets worse post-SB. This is one of the primary reasons for the S&T/Emrakul SB plan.
[I]Noted[I]
Sneak/Show - Difficult, combo is useless without GY hate, and impossible if they run Progenitus. You have to become a winnie beatdown with counter backups.
[I]Gotcha[I]
Post-ramp Eldrazi - Difficult, we can't combo them, nor can we counter anything important, they ramp up mana and cast uncounterable Emrakul. Post-SB is also hard since if we S&T they run Eldrazi too.
[I]Have you playtested against that type of deck? I mean I can understand that this type of match archetype wont show up often (as prices for a single Candle stick costs 200bucks lol)[I]
@Alex-- Thank you for your wonderful inputs. As far as changes go still sticking to the X1 Trinket and X1 Misdirection? You brewing something new for the Knightquest tourney?
@Ivanpei- Lol I feel the same way too man. I know brainstorm is an awesome card its just I felt that forcing a 3rd color for just brainstorm might be a little too risky? Black does have some okay draw cards? eg. sign in blood (i know eeewww..). Bob is awesome. I have to admit this as i was beaten to death many times by them (thank you rock/junk/discard variants). How goes play testing?
@Unicoerner -- Yes I agree regarding the REB and pyroblasts. Do you play this deck variant? How was your experience VS the decks above?
General apology: Uh...I have to apologize to the other people reading this forum post as I realize i'm not in the correct Deck archetype. I will create a new Primer soon for U/R painter citing "Caleb" and "Alex" variants and reason for card selection.
If the Hatfield brothers are reading lol Congratulations to the Hatfield Brothers for their placing in Atlanta. Their plays were magnificent :D
I have decided to stick with blue because brainstorm is just too good. I prefer Duress/Seize/Moms over Redblasts because it's common sense that you will see STPs more often than MD Needles and Revokers. I'll have a couple of blue blasts in the board to come in because those are the most flexible protection/removal spells. I don't play force so I can safely painter for Red instead of blue.
I'll just suck up the MD lost to a resolved revoker. I don't see as much dragon stompy/challice aggro which I doubt I can beat MD anyway. Revoker/Chalice @ 1 and Blood Moon are all GG cards. That said, my UBW list packs alot of gas @ a very fast speed. I can outgas control with 4 tops, 4 bobs, 4 moms (mom becomes card advantage if she survives a turn). The deck is still insanely fast with a T3 goldfish very common and T4 if I keep a slower hand. My slow hands usually have mom/thoughtseize so I can slow my opponents clock enough to squeeze through the win against aggro.
I'm getting my welders soon so I'll post a comparison of the 2 decks once I've tested both enough.
Welders arrived, yay! Anyway first impressions of the UR list is that the synergy in the deck is enormous. Force/REB with Painter is such a great combo. The LED problem is a bitch, but that only really matters if you are under alot of pressure and must go off with LED, otherwise you can wait a turn and go off next turn. Pitching LED to Force= Priceless. I really like Pander's swap of Trinket for 1 misdirection. I've found Trinket to be pretty slow and not as versatile. 1 seems to be okay. I'm also of the opinion that 2 LED is enough, since the deck has the stompy lands and opal. Cut a LED for something? Possibly a Third blast?
@TheProfessor - I've tested nearly everything except the Wumrcoil =D, its not blue (2x Inkwell, Sharuum the Hegemon, Sphinx of the Steel wind, Sundering Titan and combinations ranging 2-3 maindeck beasts), short notes:
Inkwell - can hardcast, slow, does nothing
Sharuum - no more than 1 use, buys a turn, strong with other guys
Sphinx - perfect, races nearly anything, resilient but not sword proof, hardcasting is nearly impossible
Sundering titan - bad, except T2 welder lock, hardcastable, does nothing lategame
Wurmcoil - will test it, hardcast friendly, no evasion, isn't blue =/ .. maybe only one you need not to play 4 LEDs, that sound promising,
by my experience reanimation plan feels like an overkill, its not worth it, most time you can win without it anyway and wish these would be other cards
I'm strongly missing the "out of the box" card in there I like.. like a singleton Berserk in New Horizons =) .. Misdirection doesn't fill the place, I think its actually ridiculously bad in the list...
I'm currently on 2x divert instead which are great in my black heavy meta, just can't decide on the pyro, divert, LED/ Trinkets, toolbox, LED configuration
solution for the chalice is only Engineered Explosives which is pretty suboptimal =) or rearranging SB, which is even worse
I don't think TES/ANT matchup is bad, depends strongly on the build and playskill of the player, U/B ANT and Doomsday ANT is favourable by my experience, UBw is slightly worse, unfortunately I dont have any TES player around nowadays
@ivanpei
cutting LEDS? =O .. I don't know how you win your games but I often do with intuitions off the Top, LED hand discards for EOT weldering, all the T1, T2 kills are with LED...it enables you to kill T2 without playing a single land! ... 2 LEDs? heresy - cut a dual instead
I think its good to realize that unlike other painter decks this is a combo, not a control with combo finish
Ancient Grudge may be an asnwer for the chalice on 1 problem+ we can even rebuy it with the Opals.
I don't know how much i like the mothers. I don't see the need for them right now.
Entlightened were strong for me
@ slosh, I know that cutting LED sounds bad, but it's possible because the deck is pretty fast even without it and double LEDs are pretty terrible. I never really want to see LED until I'm going off, so 2 seems like a fair number. Also, it's not a must to go off Turns 1/2. Going off turn 3 is the sweet spot for combo decks as Turn 4 is usually the critical turn for Aggro. Though for max speed against opposing combo, 3 is probably better. Misdirection is a good card that people don't really recognize. It is more or less Force 5. It can counter a counterspell AND redirect a removal spell away from painter to an opposing creature or your own welder when going off. The fact that it munches blue is irrelevant as Painter makes everything pitchable. Early game, redirecting a Thoughtseize/Hymm= Awesome sauce.
@ ivanpei I think the problem is that most time you want to see painter as the last card in the combo, or you can play it fast enough to benefit from it, Force pithing Intuition hurts... the deck has less protection that builds before, even I - playing 3 blasts 2 Diverts - feel I cant afford falling into control role too often
on the other hand opponents often do not realize I can win with 0-1 cards in hand with protection, virtually out of nothing, I think thats the strenght that LED fully supports, otherwise its difficult to play against average deck like bant with a good player piloting it, also helps get things out of your hand and save the painter
why I don't like Misdirection - Force in Painter deck is actually bad for the card disadvantage drawback which really hurts here and is compensated by the Servant to good, 5th force is the same problem but doesn't counter key spells, is just limited protection that costs precious cards
with hymn its 2 for 3, with thought seize its 2 for 2 in favor of caster, he chooses the card ...
I find myself often going off with horde of mana but lacking cards, usually 1 card - blast - in hand, and I want another one on the top of the library, not force, not misdirection - thats why I prefer Divert, the actual misdirection effect is highly desirable in the deck but not in that crippling misdirection form .. Divert is 1 for 3 with hymn, 1 for 2 with discard, is better against zoo than blasts, they have them postboard too, some opponents tend to play around them G2, which is highly desirable
maybe its just the play style, I feel agresive approach is the one deck fully supports and I dislike weakening the option
@ Sloshthedark : Thanks for you inputs guys. I get your logic regarding the usage of Divert and misdirection.
@ Ivanpei: So how goes the testing? You playing the Durward variant right?
Hey guys... I just finished writing the Primer for U/R Painter. Would like some of your guys to critique it before I post it on the Source and another website.
:D Would any of you guys be interested? Of course I would be more than happy to share credit? :D Your inputs are invaluable and I would be more than happy to receive them. :D
(might need help in formatting and image stuff :p)
I went to my first tournament yesterday in a local store. It was a 25 people tournament, and I took 9th place going 3-2, which is ok I guess.
Here’s my current list:
1 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Painter's Servant
4 Dark Confidant
4 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Fire/Ice
2 Grindstone
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives
SB:
2 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meekstone
2 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Perish
3 Engineered Plague
2 Misdirection
R1 against White Staxx (0-2)
He mulls to six and I keep a fairly good hand with a painter and a redblast. He opens with horizon canopy, mox diamond discarding city of traitors. I play fetchland, go. He goes wasteland - crucible. I fetch for basic and have to play brainstorm because my only left land is academy ruins. I find no other land, so the game was pretty much over for me here. I pass the turn and he plays another mox diamnd and a mishra's factory, and makes some damage the next turn. I find a volcanic island, so i play academy and painter on blue so I can redblast the crucible next turn. he wastes and o-rings the painter. ouch. I brainstorm again next turn and find two more lands and another painter, so I get painter out and redblast his crucible with wasteland in his yard. Meanwhile he drew some cards with canopy off of crucible. He o-rings the second painter and I have to daze a chalce @1. I EE@0 his two mox diamonds, leaving him with little mana himself and get grindstone and sd.top off of a trinket mage, followed by counterbalance. He has two mishra's in play, which both meet fire, so he's really screwed now. I get double bob in play, and start beating him, and this is where things got really ugly. I have to force a ghostly prison to keep beating, and I have him on 6 life with 4 creatures in play (2 bob, 2 mages) while I was on 5 life myself. He plays a magus of the tabernacle. EOT I top and rearrange the 3 cards on top, which are bob, grindstone and trinket mage. He is outtapped, upkeep I pay 4 mana to the magus. I was ready to loose 3 life to double bobs and alpha strike him. He was already packing his cards when I reveal the top two cards, only to see they are bob and trinket mage to get me to zero. I do _not_ know how this could have happened, I was terrified. Never happened to me before and hopefully will never happen to me again.
G2 I had pretty much no chance, having to force a second turn trinisphere and a third turn chalice@1 leaving me almost without cards in hand. He resolves another trinisphere and a smokestack, follwed by magus of the tabernacle and mishra beatdown just when extra turns were announced.
So this game should have absolutely been a draw, but my stupidness made this a loss. This will definitely take me some time to get over with ;)
I know I could’ve stalled the game a little bit in g2 to get a draw, but that’s not what I consider to be fair play.
R2 against absolute random deck (2-0)
By now, I do not know what he was playing. I assembled the combo both games pretty quickly and didn't even sideboard. I saw Savannah Lions, Deftblade Elite, City of Brass and hardcasted Sky Hussar...
R3 against some version of pox (2-0)
He played a version of pox with buried alive / bloodghast and hatred. G1 I had a good hand with T3 CB-Top. He got Bloodghast and plays Hatred for lethal, which I daze. Trinket Mage finds Grindstone, Top finds Painter with double Force as a backup ftw. I side Misdirections because I expeted some Hymns, maybe Sinkholes and some Graveyard Hate.
G2 I have a nutdraw with painter / trinket mage and FoW in the starting hand. He gets a bloodghast out and tries the hatred trick again, which meets force. I play a crypt and a top, assemble some mana and am ready to go off. I let him resolve his buried alive on his three other bloodghast, and exile his yard in response to the landfall triggers.
To be fair, he had some bad draws because He saw no removal / discard both games.
R4 against Ascension (1-2)
G1 he opens with Martyr of Sands and second turn Serra Ascendant, going to 30 life pretty quickly. I EE@1 some creatues, and SD.top - shuffle 4 times, only to find more lands. Being on 3 life, SD.top finds me the combo, I get it out and activate, he swords but taps himself out, and my last card in hand was a daze. Really close game.
G2 he has the obv. Leyline of Sanctity, I get double Painter and double Bob with SD.Top out pretty quickly, draw tons of cards and loose some life, too. I clear the board with a Pyroclasm just in time and play another bob. Top finds a Grindstone, I reb his Leyline and activate, just to find out that he boarded EMRAKUL in against me. Wtf. Still, I have trinket mage in hand and can grab relic of progenitus to win next turn. He reshuffles his GY and topdecks another leyline. Ouch. I fail to find another redblast and his 6/6 flying/lifelink seals the deal.
G3 he has leyline again, which makes me have to assemble a 4-card combo now. My starting hand was far away from it though. He gets some kitchen finks, ranger of eos and other stuff in play and beats me fast. I get painter, stone and reb on 5 life, so I hope maybe he has Emrakul in hand an go off. He had not.
He basically 3-outed me in g2 (well, to be fair, he probably had some more outs, but I was a big favorite I guess), but yeah, I think that's the way it goes some times. I guess I got lucky the first game, too ;)
R5 against burn (2-1)
A bad matchup for me, since I normally can’t be fast enough before he burns me to death. And that’s exactly what happened g1.
G2 I side out all my redblasts for misdirections and a needle (expecting lavamancer, which I did not see btw), since I can’t name painter on blue anyway.
I get the combo with backup in T4 when he was outtaped, I had a pretty good hand I guess.
G3 was one of the weirdest matches I ever played. He does his normal burning stuff, I open with first turn grindstone, second turn CB and third turn painter. I name him on blue since I have fow and misdirection in hand, but no other blue cards. With double-backup though, this should be enough. He bolts the painter, and I reveal the needed third land to CB. I happily misdirect it to his keldon marauders, he chain lightnings, i fow. He passes the turn, I draw the land and activate, he saccs his two lands to fireblast the painter in response. Ouch. The game goes on with him having no permanents and me in topdeck mode. He draws land, burn, and I find myself a trinket mage for sd.top, being on 2 life. He draws a second land and plays pyrostatic pillar. I find nothing in the top 3 with cmc 2, so I shuffle and go to 1 life, top again and find nothing :/. So the pillar resolves, basically making it impossible fore me to play any more spells. He’s on 20 so I start the trinket-mage beatdown. He tries to burn me a couple of times, suffering from this own pillar, but my counter-top is able to counter all his price of progress and magma jet, finding a bob on top. With him being on 6, he plays a lava spike and goes to 4. I find no cmc 1 spell on top, so I have to put top on top. Luckily, he does not have a spell for 2 or a fireblast, he passes the turn. I attack, and with him on 2, he can’t play any spells either and dies next turn to trinket mage.
Pros:
Acceptable result for a first tournament.
Nice opponents.
Cons:
Me playing like I never played Magic before in the first round, embarrassing myself in front of the whole store ;)
A sideboard which needs to be changed, as there were many many artifact decks running around.
Hi, guys, I'm new here, since I've seen this thread, I have a thought in my mind, whether we can mix the thopter sword combo with painter stone combo plus counterbalance top? This is my initial decklist as following:
lands: 20
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
1 Karakas
4 Island
2 Seat of the Synod
creatures: 6
4 Painter's Servant
2 Trinket Mage
spells: 34
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mental Misstep
3 Grindstone
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
@TKdodo: You list looks fine. But i have some question in order to improve it. Don't you think that running confidant and tombs with 4 Mage (cmc 3), 4 Fow (cmc = 5) and Fire-ice (cmc=4) is a bit risky???
On the other hand just 2 daze sounds random...i'd consider runnig the 4th CB and the 4 top. I love fire/ice and the blast but i'd cut a mage in favour of a 3th ponder cutting the relic for the 3th grind stone.
I don't know but i like the decks have 2 win cond. Jace TMS could be a great one or just run Nought / stifle pack. Is up to you!
Just for inspiation:
// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
7 [P2] Island (2)
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [A] Underground Sea
2 [ZEN] Swamp (3a)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Mountain (1a)
2 [U] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
// Spells
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [TE] Grindstone
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [IA] Pyroblast
4 [NE] Daze / Misstep
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Last edited by GoldenCid; 04-28-2011 at 10:55 PM.
Hi guys.
As you may have noticed, the other thread (U/R Painter) has been moved to the DTB forum as 'representative' of the Painter-Stone archetype. This choice has been made because, in order, the other thread had a proper and thorough primer, was more active, and featured better results (read: GP Top 8).
Looking at the recent decklists in this thread, I don't spot huge strategic differences with those in the other one, except for a splash for Bob. This is why I did not move both threads, and this is why I am encouraging you to consolidate discussion in the thread 'under the spotlight'. It's your choice, though, and I won't be locking this thread.
Regards.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I have been toying around with a U/w version of the deck, that generally can represent stone-blade game one until you just combokill them. Then, depending on you preference has a robust amount of SB options, transforming into stone-blade or CB/thopter swords, becoming a hybrid thopter/painter or CB/painter or just using a silverbullet sideboard that leans on e-tutor
I personally feel like Etutor is perhaps the best single card left in legacy, i mean its more degenerate brother and sister Vamperic and Mystic are both banned, its the only tutor around that can still find flexible and game breaking cards, For One Mana at Instant Speed, and we all know how Broken Force of Will and Brainstorm are, this deck runs a full 4 of of each, and tries to use them to maximum effect. Also i feel like Combo/control is the best hybrid Arch-type of all time. But since nothing in magic occurs in a vacuum, this is still really a pet deck.
here is the basic shell
// Lands (20-21)
2 Academy Ruins
1 karakas
2-3 tundra
2 plains
4 U/w Fetch
7-9 Island
0-1 seat of the synod
0-3 U/x fetch
// Creatures (3)
3 Painter's Servant
// Spells (29)
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Grindstone
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Counter spell
4 Swords to plowshares
Open slots (7-8) depending on 20 or 21 land
Now this gives the deck a ton of flexibility to be customized/ shaped for your meta
some of the things that i have tried and liked
Thirst for Knowledge
Oblivion Ring
Ensnaring bridge
Vedalken shackles
Defense Grid
EE
Ratchet Bomb
Moat/Humility (mainly if you plan to bring in or main thopter/swords)
Thopter/Swords
Counterbalance/Top
Gilfigars Cage
preordain
Spell pierce
Spell Snare
Misdirection (i haven't tried this yet, but i would be a nice answer to discard)
And all of those can work out of the side as well
also some good sb options
Surgical Extraction, to deal with pesky Emarkul or Progenitus
Wrath of God
Back to Basics
1X LED (to speed up the combo vs other combo or fast aggro
Path to Exile (more aggro hate)
t-Crypt
Relic
Leyline of Sanctity (haven't tried this one, but i mean to get around to it)
a full transformation to stone blade (i would main one more Karaks if going this route)
you just pull the Grind stones/painters/ and some amount of e-tutors
2 jace
4 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of X and Y
2 V-Clique
5 open slots
You can even opt for a main deck that has access to all three powerful combos
with a Singleton of each in the above basic shell.
SSDT
CB
Sword of the meek
Thopter foundry
let me know what you think.
Last edited by dr.philgood; 02-14-2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: just adding things
Hi, I happen to have played this very list with a few changes myself. This was exactly the same with the inclusion of ensnaring bridge, oblivion ring, humility, and a counterbalance shell. I also had two of trinket mage for pithing needle and EE. Honestly the deck felt smooth besides the painter servant and the grindstones. The deck had every answer it needed when it was needed, but the painter servants and grindstones were lack luster. Running anymore combos like thopter foundry at the same time seems bad, but i haven't tested it. More testing would need to be done to see how well it actually plays againts the meta, right now i feel thopter foundry would do better in painter servants place, making this well, not next level painter.
On another lighter note, it was hilariously fun to play with, dragging games out is such fun
if you have any thoughs dr.philgood about playing the deck or trying out something new, post a list you tried or tested and ill check it out too. Also if you want to see my exact list, i'll post it.
I have been testing out the 3in1-enlightenedpainter build, and i do think that objectively thopter/swords may be a more resilient and better combo, but the ability to kill in one turn is where the painter/stone really shines, allowing you to get games when people are tapped out, just not expecting to die or when thopter/swords can't win the race.
Qty ED Name Cost Type
// Lands (20)
1 LG Karakas Legendary Land
2 R Tundra Land - Plains Island
4 ON Flooded Strand Land
2 TSP Academy Ruins Legendary Land
8 P2 Island Basic Land - Island
2 U Plains Basic Land - Plains
1 ON Polluted Delta Land
//\\
// Creatures (3)
3 SHM Painter's Servant 2 Artifact Creature - Scarecrow
//\\
// Spells (38)
4 6E Enlightened Tutor W Instant
4 B Swords to Plowshares W Instant
3 TE Grindstone 1 Artifact
4 5E Brainstorm U Instant
4 AL Force of Will 3UU Instant
1 8E Ensnaring Bridge 3 Artifact
1 FD Vedalken Shackles 3 Artifact
2 U Counterspell UU Instant
4 LRW Ponder U Sorcery
3 NE Daze 1U Instant
1 M12 Oblivion Ring 2W Enchantment
2 SH Mana Leak 1U Instant
1 ARB Thopter Foundry (W/B)U Artifact
1 FUT Sword of the Meek 2 Artifact - Equipment
1 V09 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Artifact
1 CS Counterbalance UU Enchantment
1 TE Humility 2WW Enchantment
//\\
// Sideboard
1 CS Counterbalance UU Enchantment
3 7E Wrath of God 2WW Sorcery
3 NPH Surgical Extraction (B) Instant
2 CH Tormod's Crypt 0 Artifact
1 US Back to Basics 2U Enchantment
3 ZEN Spell Pierce U Instant
1 DKA Grafdigger's Cage 1 Artifact
1 CHK Sensei's Divining Top 1 Artifact
I may have way more dredge/gy hate then i need, but most of that is a concession to the fact that emarkul.dec is bad news for painter, perhaps i should run less of that and just focus on the thopter/swords, or another kill vs them, I'm not sure. that would also allow you to get around Leyline of sanctity better in g2. I haven't tested the 4in1 yet, that would be the core list modified to accommodate blade, with the stoneblade transformational side. It might be fun!
And of course i want to see the list you have been running.
Also one trick, i always name blue w painter game one, and against decks w/o red blasts, just to make people think i have a FoW, but another color when i am scared of the redblast or an opponents FoW, and thinking before you name a color is big, just to dodge some rando cards people may have. Also never name green against gsz decks, but that is just common sense.
Another play that i haven't yet had a reason to try is naming one of an opponents Sword of X and Y's colors so they can't equip it, but i wouldn't do this unless i really needed to, because exposing your painters to removal prematurely is bad bad bad. And again really be careful about which of the colors you name.
Last edited by dr.philgood; 02-15-2012 at 06:20 PM. Reason: spelling, formating, adding stuff this time
I agree with you that it can just explode without people seeing it coming, i'm just not sold that the risk is still worth it yet. But here is my list that I have ran.
x3 painters servant
x2 trinket mage
x4 force of will
x4 brainstorm
x2 counterspell
x2 spell snare
x4 swords to plowshare
x3 enlightened tutor
x1 ensnaring bridge
x1 oblivion ring
x1 pithing needle
x1 engineered explosives
x3 sensei's divining top
x3 counterbalance
x2 grindstone
x2 jace, TMS
x3 ancient tomb
x4 flooded strand
x4 scalding tarn
x3 tundra
x2 volcanic island
x4 island
x1 plains
x1 academy ruins
I don't have my sideboard handy at the moment, but if i remember correctly, good amount of gravehate, red elemental blasts, a few wrath effects, and blood moon for a single lands player (worth it).
for naming color just see what the other player is playing and make your decision. game one usually is blue for force but at the same time sometimes depending on your hand to just call white or black.
I'm not sure how much grave hate is actually needed, my meta only has a few dredge players to deal with. luckily in my meta no one plays hive mind or sneak and show.
also i think it does fall off, because the equipment is blue and the creatures gains protection from blue, for a second, before it falls off...i think.
I agree with you that it can just explode without people seeing it coming, i'm just not sold that the risk is still worth it yet. But here is my list that I have ran.
x3 painters servant
x2 trinket mage
x4 force of will
x4 brainstorm
x2 counterspell
x2 spell snare
x4 swords to plowshare
x3 enlightened tutor
x1 ensnaring bridge
x1 oblivion ring
x1 pithing needle
x1 engineered explosives
x3 sensei's divining top
x3 counterbalance
x2 grindstone
x2 jace, TMS
x3 ancient tomb
x4 flooded strand
x4 scalding tarn
x3 tundra
x2 volcanic island
x4 island
x1 plains
x1 academy ruins
I don't have my sideboard handy at the moment, but if i remember correctly, good amount of gravehate, red elemental blasts, a few wrath effects, and blood moon for a single lands player (worth it).
for naming color just see what the other player is playing and make your decision. game one usually is blue for force but at the same time sometimes depending on your hand to just call white or black.
I'm not sure how much grave hate is actually needed, my meta only has a few dredge players to deal with. luckily in my meta no one plays hive mind or sneak and show.
also i think it does fall off, because the equipment is blue and the creatures gains protection from blue, for a second, before it falls off...i think.
I feel like the biggest difference between the 2 lists are the use of ponder and more one offs in mine and tomb/jace/trinket in yours. The ponders let you dig for the combo and answers more aggressively, keep the overall mana curve lower, and hit land drops a little more smoothly. Also out side of fetches a general lack of non-basics, and quite a few more basics in mine let you board in back to basics, play around wasteland and price of progress (the Karakas is a concession to re-animator). I normally fetch basics, unless i need to keep the option of a white or blue spells that turn. I also play a bit more counter magic, and generally just play a control game with a combo finish. I don't really go for the kill unless i am gonna die the next turn, or feel like i can sufficiently protect the combo.
I haven't tested the deck with a 3rd color, but IMO REB is only good against other blue decks, because otherwise you need a painter out, and i feel like exposing painter to removal before you need too is bad. And you need more nonbasics to support it, making Back To Basics less of an option, and Wasteland relevant.
Trinketmage is cool and all, and the trinket+Jace combo can give you some extra CA, but i feel like both are really too slow for what I want to be doing. I'm trying to abuse E-tutor as much as possible, not be a Durtle control deck. I mean realistically how are you gonna get there with the 2/2 body? So its just a restrictive 3 mana tutor.
Jace you can make a strong case for yes, but i really want to keep the curve low, as to avoid Tombs, and keeping the 4 drop tutor-able really helps a naked counterbalance. Also i don't really have any way to protect him outside of ensnaring bridge.
Here is the most current 3in1-EnlightenedPianter list i have been fooling around with
i am thinking about moving the Humility to the Side, and putting an O-ring back into the main, and Cutting a Wrath to accommodate that change. Its stable, preforms well and can fetch the kills when you need them. Also i'm not sold on the Karakas, if I replace it a scalding tarn will probably take its place.
// Lands (20)
1 Karakas
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Academy Ruins
7 Island
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty rainforest
//\\
// Creatures (3)
3 Painter's Servant
//\\
// Spells (37) (21 Blue spells)
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Grindstone
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Counterspell
4 Ponder
3 Daze 1U
2 Mana Leak
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Counterbalance UU Enchantment
1 Humility 2WW Enchantment
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Thopter Foundry
1 FUT Sword of the Meek
2 CS Counterbalance
3 7E Wrath of God
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Back to Basics
3 Spell Pierce
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Last edited by dr.philgood; 02-16-2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason: adding
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