U/W Painter Stone

[Mystical_Jackass]

I like the intuition + academy combo.

If I were running a deck like this I'd almost wanna run like 3 trinket mage imo, then a couple one-of's like pithing needle and sensei's. With that you could almost cut down on the tutors.. I mean, that's just a lot of tutors having 4, I hate getting a hand with like 2 tutors lol, just so friggin slow getting going. Sometimes it can leave me sorta mana screwed too, its almost safe having an artifact land in your deck as corny as that sounds, but it can be tutored and fetched with trinket if you happen to have a hand with like 2 tutors. But yeah, with 4 brainstorms/ponders and intuition I think that 4 tutors is overkill. But I'd deffinitely consider trinket mage, it does for this deck much of what imperial recruiter can do for R/W painter

[Dark_Cynic87]

It's been suggested, but then it goes down the slippery slope of going to CB because you can tutor for top, and then if you go that route, you may as well play EPIC Painter or Next-Level Painter. This list runs Back To Basics, which makes the Artifact Land bad at best, and not so Wasteland friendly either.

Back to Basics is being used because of the tremendous lack of basics in the format, and seems to do fairly well for this list. It throws their tempo off enough that it really allows you to abuse your E. Tutors and get your combo down before they can do much. Paired with Dazes and Mana Leaks, you continue draining their resources, while giving you the ability to get down your combo and win before they can take care of the B2B.

You really have the ability of total board control with the amount of removal you run and paired with the Mages you have an alternate win condition of swinging. They can even be used as chump blockers if you need while you drop your combo.

Pce,

--DC

[baghdadbob]

I agree completely if I'm running counter/top half of my deck gets invalidated. I really like the disruption I have I am however thinking of adding a single of ethersworn canonist in the sideboard, or a single of orim's chant for TPS. Thoughts?

[Dark_Cynic87]

My thought is this:

Aethersworn Cannonist isn't good against Stax, Meddling Mage can be. Same goes for a Stompy and Affinity. Mage can be. Cannonist works decently in the Storm MU, which you have shared concerns about recently, but I think that you will find when you actually play the matchup you have a better shot at winning it than you think, especially when you begin to understand how to play against it. I know you can Tutor for it with Enlightened Tutor, and if you want it never hurts to playtest. I simply like Mage better. Well...Maybe it would be better. I play ANT, FDDT, TES, and Doomsday/ANT Hybrid, and I assure you that you do have a chance since you play a combo along with counterspells. They only thing I will mention is that naming blue against most storm lists with Painter will be a mistake, as many lists run Pyroblasts for protection, which is what made me hesitant just a minute ago when you brought up Cannonist in place of Mage (mage is blue, Pyroblast nails it's coffin shut and you really don't want to have to waste your counterspells in a war of attrition to allow them to combo off free and clear). Be careful about Extirpate as well, as some storm players will feel the need to Duress out a Grindstone and then hit it with 'Pate to screw you over for the win (We storm players do understand that playing Extirpate in the control matchup, which this is, can do wonders in making sure you never hit a Force of Will again). When Extirpate is an issue, Wheel of Sun and Moon can help.

Maybe Cannonist would be better. Check it out by testing.

Pce,

--DC

[baghdadbob]

Canonist...
a) shuts down storm
b) makes my combo basically unstoppable. i play grindstone, he plays force of will... I force back. He does jack $hit. Then I play painter and win lol. I actually like it alot... its very tempting not to m.d.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Back to Basics is sideboard man. It's never a good idea to just assume, then go against some white control, sui black, merfolk, goblin, or just plain randi using basic lands. It's a great card don't get me wrong, but look man.. its like trinisphere in that it doesn't have an immediate solution to any threats like WoG, it just slows down their tempo, but since you're not running city of traitors + mox, were talking like turn 3-4 affect at BEST. Many of the opponents can just fetch for basic lands the following game, most good players keep several in those situations, they'll adapt.

I'm also pretty sure most of the hated decks like Zoo, Vial decks, Reanimator, Storm, Stompie decks shoot to kill by turn 4. Looking at the thin removal and lack of creatures the deck has to offer (maybe a sword & counter in your hand), these faster creature heavy decks are gonna break through your defense really fast, turn 4 you're looking at "I better pull this off b4 these creatures end me", not "I better slow down their tempo". I wouldn't underestimate what other decks are capable of, you're just assuming having one FoW in your hand's just gonna be there to save your neck when it'll prolly get baited to stop one threat followed by 2 more..

[Mystical_Jackass]

Back to Basics is sideboard man. It's never a good idea to just assume, then go against some white control, sui black, merfolk, goblin, or just plain randi using basic lands. It's a great card don't get me wrong, but look man.. its like trinisphere in that it doesn't have an immediate solution to any threats like WoG, it just slows down their tempo, but since you're not running city of traitors + mox, were talking like turn 3-4 affect at BEST. Many of the opponents can just fetch for basic lands the following game, most good players keep several in those situations, they'll adapt.

I'm also pretty sure most of the hated decks like Zoo, Vial decks, Reanimator, Storm, Stompie decks shoot to kill by turn 4. Looking at the thin removal and lack of creatures the deck has to offer (maybe a sword & counter in your hand), these faster creature heavy decks are gonna break through your defense really fast, turn 4 you're looking at "I better pull this off b4 these creatures end me", not "I better slow down their tempo". I wouldn't underestimate what other decks are capable of, you're just assuming having one FoW in your hand's just gonna be there to save your neck when it'll prolly get baited to stop one threat followed by 2 more..

[Dark_Cynic87]

B2B isn't Sideboard. You may play it sideboard, but I believe the fellow building the thread included it in his maindeck because he knows his meta better than you do. If he feels like for his metagame it's good, then he's probably playing in a metagame more developed than Suiblack, burn, WW and zoo. It's probably a bit more landstill and thresh varients, and I've heard him mention concerns about Storm combo.

You MAY be right about the speed of the build, but I might suggest that with the decent amount of removal, attack resistance (Prison), and counterspells, he's probably got a good chance of making it to turn 4. Also, at turn four, when he drops back to basics, the game swings drastically in his favor in any of tier one matchups (other than Merfolk, but he and I have already discussed the matchup, and I believe that's why the sideboard has WoG. I suppose if he wanted, he could put in Tombs or Cities for the extra mana for the early game, but I don't know how well that would fly...It may be something to test. I would suggest Cities over Tombs just because it's frustrating to see lands sitting tapped in play when you could really use them. with the lack of defense (creature base) to the list, I can also see Tomb being more of a problem than it usually is.

If you want to try one of those lands, you can just drop out 2x of each basic and try 4x of City of Traitors. I think this will screw up some of the synergies in your list, though.

Also, if you are going against any of those lists you mentioned, Jackass, then I suppose game one is possibly a loss, but games 2 and 3 get strictly better as you have Wrath of God in the board, 2 more O-Rings, another Ghostly Prison and a few bounce effects. This can and most likely will turn everything but burn into a win. That, and I think when people look at decks with counterspells in them, they tend to forget just how powerful they can be when used appropriately.

Pce,

--DC

[baghdadbob]

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

[baghdadbob]

Ok so I recently brought this deck to the Off The Wall Games tourney. I got stomped and cried for a few hours when I got home. I went 1-4. I thought a lot in between the drops of tears about what went wrong. So here it is the gist of what happened.
G/W/U rocked me but it was close. Jotun grunt proves to be super tech against painter combo. Back to basics proves to be a freaking bomb. Tyrogon predator, grunt, and grips took me out.
U/G/R Dreadstill. Countertop was a pain in the ass. Too many threats made me weep for several hours.
U/W fish This match should have been easy but I made play errors and also mulled to 5 both games. Didn't find a second mana till 4th turn.
What worked well-
Back to basics- Really took people by surprise very overwhelming for alot of decks.
Running 4x of Painter and Grindstone- Was easy to find pieces often by turn 2.
Ethersworn Canonist- By the end of game 2 I had this puppy mainboard. Really shuts down any chance of counterwars over my combo pieces.
Circle of protection green in the sideboard- Super awesome held off tarmagoyfs and predator for a while.
What didn't work-
Preparing the sideboard for goblins and ichorid.
This includes these cards...
Wrath of God
Echoing Truth
Wheel of Sun and moon
Turns out no one in my meta plays either of these things. Should have had wipe away s/b.
Things I wish I had done-
Played countertop.
Dropped white altogether aside from swords I didn't really beneifit at all. Ghostly prison was effective 1/3 games. Could just be propaganda if I wanted.
Brought food and drink.

Ok so I'm in the works of making a new list and would like Source help. I feel a mono blue shell is very very strong. This is what I'm thinking and It could be incredibly stupid.

4x Force of Will- Disrupt first turn wins free counterspell. Obvious.
4x Counterspell- This is mono blue so the double U is easy. Obvious.
4x Spell Snare- I have been playtesting with daze I'm not sure yet. But saving my other counterspells for non-2x spells seems smart.
1x Oona Queen Of The Fae- A great big beater which this deck needs. You can only stall for so long before you play threats. It also mills and gives me tokens to block/swing with. Seems good.
3x Grindstone- Kill condition.
3x Painter- Kill condition that works great s/b with blue elemental blasts against dragon stompy and goblins.
2x Clique- Can get rid of alot of troublesome cards. Also I can flip it off counterbalance to stop Grip. 2x because of space constraints and it is legendary.
3x Shackles- Steal some creatures and also flip to stop grip.
3x Counterbalance- This card just wrecks people and with 4x brainstorm 2x ponder and 4x flooded strand I can do alot of shuffling.
3x Top- Is a soft lock with counterbalance but also gives me card advantage to find combo pieces or bombs.
2x Ponder- Giving me 16 total draw/shuffle effects. Gets rid of stuff I don't need.

Unsure about the s/b. Comments/questions/concerns are more then welcome. I would defiantly like some help.