double black=bad w/o double blue, i don't want to make the mana base even more unstable by adding another double black, do you? Blue is the number one, black is the splash.
In all honesty, I've considered Shoreline Ranger. Although, still in testing I vouch for several of the benefits of the Abomination:
-The clock on this fellow is fantastic, espcially the function of bringing him out early via Mana Drain and putting fear inspiring pressure on the opponent
-The regeneration allows him to act as manland when factoring in Disk. End of turn Disk activation leaves him practically untouched, allowing for a beautiful alpha strike next turn
Diablos: If you truly don't like the pressence of the Abomination in your deck, why would you put your name on what you would consider a sub-optimal decklist? Looking as I have at some of your posts over the course of this board it seems unfitting for you to belittle yourself so.
In any event, I should mention my amusement at seeing practically this exact decklist on StarCity so soon after its discussion.
-Cheers
Hmm...perhaps cause Matt Pietarinen's secret super hero identity is Peter_rotten? oops... :DIn any event, I should mention my amusement at seeing practically this exact decklist on StarCity so soon after its discussion.
Just looking at Zillastompy's curve, you could negate a huge amount of their threats with Chalice of the Void. As long as you make a plan for Naturalize, Ascetic and whatever they resolve turn 1/2, its what i see as being hte best card you could sb in that matchup. The only problem is that it and disk don't get along. Should it still be considered?
PhyrexianToad : Sui black decks could always run Withered Wretch without affecting their win/loss ratios too much. Then again, Sui black decks could run plague wind, last laugh, and ostracize and not effect their win/loss ratios too much.
Well, the question then is what permanent do you fear more than creatures?
Actually its more like would i rather rely on just spot removal and not have to coutner half his deck, or use mass removal now and have to counter everything he plays. Looking at it tho, especially with 8 disenchant effects postboard, i don't think it would be to effective. I think the best plan is to go into the old trade binder and dust off your Tundras and Volcanics.Well, the question then is what permanent do you fear more than creatures?
PhyrexianToad : Sui black decks could always run Withered Wretch without affecting their win/loss ratios too much. Then again, Sui black decks could run plague wind, last laugh, and ostracize and not effect their win/loss ratios too much.
Best. Advice. Evar.Originally Posted by Lord McCaffrey
Dear Chalice of the Void,Originally Posted by Lord McCaffrey
I pwn joo.
Love,
Meltdown
Dear Troll Asetic,
I own you.
Love,
Mana Drain
Seriously, you can't discount a card because there is a card that destroy it. Otherwise, stop playing creatures because STP exists. Chalice stops more than half of the Zompy deck. It allows Landstill to reserve many counters and just sit back and enjoy the show.
Exactly. Jeez, if Chalice for 1 hits the table, then there are only 2 cards that still need to be countered, the Troll, and the artifact destruction. I'm pretty sure the deck can find a counter for one of them. Hell, the troll might not need countered because an Angel will be going to the dome.Chalice stops more than half of the Zompy deck. It allows Landstill to reserve many counters and just sit back and enjoy the show.
Actually, that sounds like pretty good advice to me :D . Thing with CotV is that its a ton crappier if they expect it to come in. If they do, then they bring in Meltdown/Mutations to compliment their Naturalizes, and its odds of sticking around get alot worse. However, in combination with Angel, it could buy enough time to let Angel get around to an untap step without eating 4 bolts. I might even consider boarding out disk if your bringing in Angel+FTK+CotV+Pulse, but thats a stategy for a different, more viable (IMHO) thread.Otherwise, stop playing creatures because STP exists.
yeah...but I still remember the time when I slammed down CotV for 1 on turn 2 vs an aggro deck with 34 1cc cards, only to lose 20 or so turns later, as I was finishing him off, to double Urza's Rage. Chalice, while awesome, isn't a perfectly hard lock. Its much more like a super-Chill.Chalice stops more than half of the Zompy deck. It allows Landstill to reserve many counters and just sit back and enjoy the show.
PhyrexianToad : Sui black decks could always run Withered Wretch without affecting their win/loss ratios too much. Then again, Sui black decks could run plague wind, last laugh, and ostracize and not effect their win/loss ratios too much.
If Chalice hits the table for 1, I still have 4 Naturalize, 4 Meltdown, 4 Incinerate, 4 Troll, and 4 ESG which are all still castable, 8 of which remove your Chalice.
So understand this clearly: I'm not saying not to play Chalice because of a single card. That would be silly. I'm saying not to play Chalice because of 20 cards.
Mccaffrey's right - any player prepared for Chalice (which should mean pretty much any player playing Stompzilla) is going to have an easy time getting around it. It's reasonable to suggest that Chalice is a speed bump, and that in conjunction with life gain it could be a reasonable answer to Zilla Stompy, but on its own it's not going to be enough.
If you're using 8 artifact destruction game 2 and 3 against LandStill, then something is going wrong. If this deck is supposed to be a natural foil to LandStill, then why is there so much devoted to stopping it outside of cards like REB and Moon?I still have 4 Naturalize, 4 Meltdown, 4 Incinerate, 4 Troll, and 4 ESG which are all still castable, 8 of which remove your Chalice
Because the real strenght of Landstill is Disk. If there was no Disk, Landstill wouldn't be nearly as good, if it even existed at all. Add to the fact that Factory is an artifact so you can save burn for the dome, and that Naturalize nails Chalice as well, artifact destruction is a good idea against Landstill.
Edited By TeenieBopper on 1088536050
No....since you could just run O-Stone or Wrath or Deed or anything else than has synergy with no having many nonland permanents.If there was no Disk, Landstill wouldn't be nearly as good, if it even existed at all.
PhyrexianToad : Sui black decks could always run Withered Wretch without affecting their win/loss ratios too much. Then again, Sui black decks could run plague wind, last laugh, and ostracize and not effect their win/loss ratios too much.
What Bopper said. And on top of that, Moon never comes in against Landstill. Meltdown wouldn't either, unless Chalice was in their board. But if it is, then there's no reason not to have 8x artifact killers, particularly when they can also hit Disk and Factories. Obviously the board is going to need to give Landstill attention, since Landstill itself is likely to pack 9 or more SB elements to stop you. It makes sense that your SB will need to be tweaked to answer their own SB choices against you.Originally Posted by Diablos
Edited By GodzillA on 1088538767
O-stone is soo much worse than Disk. Wrath is too narrow for the main. And Deed forces you into inferior colors. Disk is what makes Landstill tick.Originally Posted by Lord McCaffrey
I never said it was a bad idea to board in Art. destruction against LandStill, because I know it's a good idea. However, I think going to 8 cards is going overboard. You still need to add in REB, and I know that you will have to be adding in Sulfuric Vortex or something along those lines to deal with stuff like Pulse and Angel.Add to the fact that Factory is an artifact so you can save burn for the dome, and that Naturalize nails Chalice as well, artifact destruction is a good idea against Landstill
I don't need REB. In fact, more and more lately I've been finding that they just sit in my hand in the Landstill matchup. They're good for countering FoW, Drain, or Standstill, but it's really Landstill's white threats I'm actually afraid of. (Ironic that we're discussing this on the UB thread, btw.) But yeah, a lot of this conversation is somewhat moot at this point.Originally Posted by Diablos
I built a deck to beat typical Landstill, which it does. Landstill is altering its SB as an answer which it sort of does. Now Stompzilla has to alter its board to answer Landstill's board, which it can. We come to a stopping point here because I haven't had time to do enough testing, and I don't think many others have yet either. I imagine those that have are keeping their tech under wraps until after 7/10. Without more testing, Zilla Stompy's SB changes to answer Landstill's SB changes are probably not worth discussing in too much detail.
Edited By GodzillA on 1088540303
Ive never seen this deck top 4-8 any tourny's that ive played at. Basicly the same things that beat landstill beat this. Which is alot of random stuff, fast aggro , and BG dragon. Needs some work.
Jee, I've never actually seen it hit tournament play yet.Ive never seen this deck top 4-8 any tourny's that ive played at.
LandStill(in all forms/colors) does not lose to randomness.Basicly the same things that beat landstill beat this. Which is alot of random stuff
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