[Deck] Ultimate Walker

[aTn]

nodahero, I like your list but it seems to be lacking threats/kill conditions.

Does this turn out to be true in testing ?

[Shawn]

Can anyone please tell me what four drops their are that I would want to blow up with EEs?

The 4th color is for Explosives is unnecessary, since the most threatening cards there are planeswalkers, which see only see play in the "mirror". Plus, they can be countered, legend ruled (Elspeth), and burned in your version.

It may be my lack of landstill experience but... Decree dosn't really seem that impressive no matter how you use it. Is their an ideal scenario for it?...Is it possible that Eternal Dragon may be slightly better in that slot?

Decree and Dragon serve different purposes. Dragon is your 24th land, then a win-condition. Decree is an amazing win-condition, and a blowout against counterbalance thresh, and the mirror. It's also fanatastic at stabilizing against tribal decks like goblins, where most of their dorks are 2/2's or 1/1's.

[nodahero]

While on paper the deck looks lacking in win conditions in actuality it does not. The existence of the three walkers, the manland, the EDragon/Decree/Trinket Mage, and Crucible do actually provide sufficient power to pull out the win. Depending on the meta you can actually swap the two compulsive back for Jace to provide slower card advantage and yet another 2 win conditions but with the expected meta for worlds being more zoo based the quick burst in card advantage seems much more beneficial.

My issue with the Decree is that it often feels like it does not provide sufficient return on investment in the early game and in the late game feels like win more. My other idea for that slot was to run Trinket Mage due to his body and his ability to fetch out a benefical artifact in both the control and aggro matchup, Top and EE respectively.

I will go try and get in some testing for that final "win con" slot in a little bit and report back prior to worlds.

[Enigma]

I just want to keep the list updated. Here's what I'm currently running:

// Lands
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Tolaria West
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
2 Polluted Delta

-1 Tolaria West
+1 Polluted Delta

More consistance on land drop for a better early/mid game.


// Spells
1 Decree of Justice
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace Beleren
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Fire/Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Nev Disk
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Humility
1 Sensei's Divining Top

-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Engineered Explosives
-1 Jace Beleren
-2 Forbid
+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+1 Nev Disk
+1 Humility
+2 Counterspell

I always liked forbid, but the current meta is so fast (Elves Survival, Zoo, Merfolk, Tempo Thresh) that I need the 2cc CS. At my 4th land drop, I would like to reset the board, that's why I'll give Nev Disk and Humility a try (combined with E. Tutor). That makes me able to go -1 CoW and +1 Top.


// Sideboard
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Dismantling Blow
SB: 1 Pulse of the Fields
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Ajani Goldmane
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Negate

-1 Pyroblast
-1 Hydroblast
-1 Wing Shards
-1 Misdirection
+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Negate
+2 Ajani Goldmane

Cut the conditionals Wish board to something really effective: 2x Goldmane, something really versatile: E. Tutor (which is a better answer to Progenitus deck (E.tutor into Humility), and +1 weapon against Storm in the form of negate.


It's nice to see some of you guys trying out the deck and tweaking it.

P-M

[GGoober]

Lol Enigma, your latest list is almost like landstill, with the Standstills changed for Ancestral Vision and the Brainstorm changed for Fire//Ice and Top changed for Jace. I believe your latest list plays like Landstill except that your earlier plays are more fragile without Brainstorm/Top but you have better mid/late game with the walkers and Visions.

I'm just curious as to if you had any problems stabilizing in the early game. If not, it may because your meta is slower (aggro-control) and this is the deck that's better in that meta. If your meta is faster, then I think Landstill gives a much more stable metagame.

The list is almost like Landstill now, with the exception that you play Visions over Standstill and run no Brainstorms. I like the card advantage of this deck, but I don't like how those spells are easily countered by Counterbalance (Vision is more easily countered by Balance than Standstill). Fire//Ice is prone to Snares so it's not that great a removal. It kills bobs and lavamancers, but doesn't hurt cats and goyfs.

[Omega]

People : To those asking for results, this deck made TOP 2 yesterday at a 33 persons Timewalk Tournament in Montreal. I do not have the list, but I believe the deck co-creator will post it shortly.

I couldn't see him play, because I was too busy playing (You know, Landstill isn't exactly a fast deck, although I believe I play very fast. I've played even faster than aggro decks in certain matches). But from what I've heard here and there, the deck did fairly well, even against his worth matchups (Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh for example. I believe my MU is also slightly bad. If they disrupt too quickly too early, there are little chances of recovering. If you have more lands than they can destroy, you should win :D I believe he has the same gameplan as me against the Canadian deck)

Too bad we didn't play the top 2, but 8 hours of Magic were getting us all tired. I haven't had the chance of playing against Ultimate Walker yet. He believes he has a favourable match against me. How strange, because I believed the same :P

anyway great tournamnet!

Robert

[Enigma]

Here's the last list Omega's talking about:


Piloted by Yan Lampron for Goyf-walk tournament:
Soon to be on deckcheck.net

4 Force of will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Helix
2 Forbid
2 Humility
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Jace Beleren
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Spell Snare
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Decree of justice
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Cunning Wish
2 Crucible of Worlds

3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau

SB:
4 Meddling Mage
1 Misdirection
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Pulse of the field
1 Extirpate
2 Relic of progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pyroblast
1 Blue elemental blast
1 Path to exile
1 Volcanic Fallout

Major difference:
+4 Helix (thanks to Klaus)
+2 Humility
+1 Plateau (MVP land of the day)

-4 Fire/Ice
-1 E.E
-1 Tolaria West
And the 61st card


SB: +1 Volcanic Fallout (it made him win an unwinnable game against Goblins on top4 by killing 7 Goblins)
-1 Wing shards

Default: Low blue card count
Advantage: Wreck the aggro MU.

P-M

[nodahero]

I have some good news and some bad news.
The bad news is I did not play ultimate walker at worlds due primarily to my inability to settle on a solid sideboard. The good news is I did take 23 overall out of 182 players using my custom built Loam list. If you guys have any questions about my current list I am still also deciding on my win con... Decree just seems to poor without Standstill in play...

[Nizmox]

Probably a stupid question, but has anyone considered running solitary confinement? In conjunction with Jace you wouldn't be in any danger of running out of cards to discard, but I guess you'd be giving the opponent too much card advantage?

EDIT: Nevermind, stupid idea, I realised this doesn't prevent your planeswalkers being damaged/killed, since they'd opt to attack the planeswalker instead of you.

[druidguru]

I played various gimpy versions of this deck in a few of the legacy tournies at Gen Con. The list above seems a lot better than what I ran and I am switching over. I agree though that decree seemed a little weak over the weekend.

What about swapping decree with a single copy of Vedalken Shackles? The deck may not run enough islands for it, but nearly each round I felt like a copy could have swung the game. Also note that I play 2 copies of EE and one enlightened tutor, so the shackles would be fetchable. Has anyone else considered shackles?

Thx

[Fossil4182]

Would Moat be a good fit in this deck instead of a second Humility?

[elgoff]

Would Moat be a good fit in this deck instead of a second Humility?

Yes and no, me and Yan Lampron just taklked about putting Moat in the deck...instead of what?? Tetsing will tell us!! Until next week, good testing everyone!!

[Omega]

Most creatures do not have flying in Legacy, so we can say Moat is about the same as Humility.

But Moat stops you from attacking too, forcing you to rely solely on the Elspeth. A smart opponent will see that too

Robert

[Romanus]

I agree. Moat makes Decree useless, and Elspeth/AV your only real wincons.

Against landstill that could be a big problem. They run more hard counters and vindicate. Granted we have forbid cheese in our favor in the long game, but I still think moat would hurt more than it helps. Humility blasts flyers too, so it negates any random jank.

[Carabas]

Decree can win over moat, you just have to do yourself the injustice of hardcasting it.

[Romanus]

Decree can win over moat, you just have to do yourself the injustice of hardcasting it.

Point taken, but yuck. I'll take Elspeth anyday

[legacyplayer0]

I played this list to a 13th place finish in a field of 60-70 people.

NY Walker

4 Ancestral Vision
3 Spell Snare
2 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinket Mage
2 Compulsive Research
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Wrath of God
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Plateau
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tolaria West
2 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pulse of the Fields
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Firespout

I beat Elf Surivival, Bant Countertop, Canadian Threshold, and Grb Survival. I drew with Solidarity, which was very lucky, and Goblins, which was played by an unusually slow player. I lost to a 5 color, 64 card awful counterbalance deck.

The deck ran very smoothly, and I didn't miss the Decrees at all.

You might be able to watch a couple of my matches in the coverage thread for the August 22 Vestal tournament.

[hebrewhammer]

legacyplayer0 do you think that threads is really made a difference? did you ever wish it was a decree? what if u cut one vision and the threads and made them a decree?

[legacyplayer0]

The one Threads is actually there because I didn't think Explosives was enough mass removal on its own, and I wanted a few more cards that could deal with more than one creature at once. So I put in some Wraths, but that really clogged up the 4cc, so I turned the third Wrath into a Threads to make things run more smoothly. Plus there's nothing more fun than playing Threads on a Dreadnought.

I used to play 2 Decrees in my list, but after playing some actual games I realized that Decree doesn't actually do anything. For it to make a real difference, you need to spend a huge amount of mana. It's too slow against aggressive decks, and many of the blue decks that it's supposed to be good against are packing Stifle. Cutting the Decrees is how I found room for the Wraths, and they have made a big difference. You're the control deck in almost every matchup, so even against slow decks like the counterbalance the extra removal is useful, because anything that drags the game on longer is good.

[beastman]

Good job phil. Losing to such pure unadaltered luck against gus had to be painful. Nice showing though.