Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
Gitaxian Probe isn’t much like a cantripping Lotus Petal. You’re simultaneously ignoring the information-gaining power of GP and overstating its mana-generating power. GP is mana positive if you plan to cast Gurmag Angler, but it doesn’t truly net you a Legacy-mana; it nets you one-seventh of a 5/5 creature. One mana is far better than that in Legacy. Lotus Petal gives you a Legacy-mana. Do you crack a Lotus Petal to cast Jedit Ojanen?
Where exactly do you think that card Gitaxian Probe drew ended up - turns out it goes to the same place as a Fetchland, and also the same place the card Uro draws ends up.
When it turned into a Treasure Cuise, the mana exploit was too much. When it turned into a DTT, that was too much. When a sideboard hate-immune deck [which also inflamed first player advantage] was the only one left to capitalize on the mana exploit, that was too much. Probe was always going to be an engine waiting to hijack Fetchlands. At all points Probe should have been banned before DTT was.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you're both underestimating the comparative power of Treasure Cruise and Dig [EDIT: Those are better bans] and overestimating how good it is to get a 5/5 a turn or two early. Worth pointing out that sol-lands let you curve into a 4/4 that Thoughtseizes on turn 2. Information, ahead-of-curve p/t, an expenditure of only renewable mana (contrast with Delve), and little dedicated support required.
That's not an argument for a ban; I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of crazier stuff you can do than cheat on your metrics one time for 2 life.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
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None of those things are FREE, though.
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"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot
RIP Ari
Legacy UGB River Rock primer Click here to comment
I can't wait for Legacy to be taken over by Lurrus 3.0
I own literally all the blue cards in my favorite pimp and continue to disagree. Who is a "forest player" and wtf is that even, a new kind of bigotry?
Not that your opinion or his matters, banned is banned and most of us couldn't be more pleased with the decision.
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Unfortunately true.
This is really the only argument for banning probe that is convincing. It's not bannable on merits, but if everyone hates it but me and Ron, probably worth banning it.
The "forest players" was just tongue in cheek (though I think there's some truth to it).
Also sprite dragon, YP, and well... Magecraft.
For real I would play a reverse Probe where I have to reveal my hand!
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
I wasn't making an argument, I was saying that based on the merits of our arguments and experiences, this is the general feeling of it - happiness for the correct outcome.
I, too, was joking. Somehow my jokes never read well in forum banter. I must be bad at it.
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Expressive Iteration is a dumb card that will be banned
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Honestly, Urza's Saga seems more likely. It's got that "we didn't test for eternal formats" vibe.
It's good, but doesn't strike as ban-worthy good.
Chances are the next bans in the far future are going be either
a) Uro
b) a new broken combo piece
c) something the current flavor of Delver is abusing because WotC can't be assed to dismantle its core, repeating history over and over again.
The problem is that if you want to play a nonbasic Wastes that transforms into Sol Ring you can instead just put Tomb/City in your deck and skip the delay
Don't get me wrong I think the card is good and will find a home somewhere but I think the suspend 2 hurts it a lot, especially in vintage
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