View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
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  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22981
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Some cards that benefit:
    Chalice
    Blood moon
    Choke
    Auriok salvagers
    Aether vial
    Stoneforge mystic + equipment
    Bitterblossom
    Liliana otv & otlh
    Misthollow griffin?
    Knight of the reliquary
    Wasteland
    Basics
    Palace Jailer
    Thought-Knot Seer
    Reality Smasher
    Thopter Foundry
    Mystic Forge

    Late edit:
    Jace, the Mindsculptor
    Urza, Lord High Artificer
    Snapcaster Mage
    Last edited by pettdan; 02-16-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #22982
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I guess the good news is that we'll all get to keep losing to Delvers.
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  3. #22983

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Good bans all around. Personally I will miss the astro lab in 3-4 color controls, maybe they could give it some more time to see if the card was really that busted. But hey, at least wasteland is a thing again.. everyone rejoice

  4. #22984
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'm strongly in the "rejoice!" camp. Great bans, each and every one. The mistakes of 2019 continue to be undone! Also, can we take snow-covered lands out of our non-Snow decks now? With labe around we had to play them to represent snoko to be playing optimally, but I think that may be behind us now.

  5. #22985
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Some cards that benefit:
    Chalice
    Blood moon
    Choke
    Auriok salvagers
    Aether vial
    Stoneforge mystic + equipment
    Bitterblossom
    Liliana otv & otlh
    Misthollow griffin?
    Knight of the reliquary
    Wasteland
    Basics
    Palace Jailer
    Thought-Knot Seer
    Reality Smasher
    Thopter Foundry
    Mystic Forge
    i think you mean every single creature that didn't have a come into play effect, and some that did. also every useful artifact that didn't end the game on the spot.
    -rob

  6. #22986
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    This was a good set of decisions, if only to promote an intense shakeup that will make diversity increase. I think a card that gets a fairly big boost is Stoneforge Mystic. With DHA being the premier 2-drop threat Stoneforge was really squashed out of the format. I think we'll see more Batterskulls in the near future. Narset and Teferi will see more play, I'm not sure about big daddy Jace.
    SFM mainly benefits because now equipments have a chance to live for more than one turn again without becoming an Elk.

  7. #22987

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    No oko & no labe probably mean less coatls and no hasty elks. Is it possible the courts should be a major beneficiary?

  8. #22988
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    No oko & no labe probably mean less coatls and no hasty elks. Is it possible the courts should be a major beneficiary?
    Tough to say. Courts looked appealing partly because Oko nullified fair nonenchantment strategies (creatures, artifacts, PWs). Court both got around that and benefited from the fewer fair creatures to steal Monarch. I expect the fringe enchantment-based control decks to weaken a bit as regular good stuff becomes playable again, they were sort of capitalizing on a quirk of the meta. I'm taking apart UW RipHelm for now.

    You can still play Court in UWx control, but those decks now want to be running more cards like Teferi, Narset, Jace, Monastery Mentor, Snapcaster Mage, Stoneforge Mystic, Hullbreacher... Meanwhile there will be more random Mavericks, D&T, Stoneblade, Goblins, Merfolk, etc to take your Monarch token.

  9. #22989
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    i think you mean every single creature that didn't have a come into play effect, and some that did. also every useful artifact that didn't end the game on the spot.
    Yeah, pretty much.

  10. #22990

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I would rather have seen an Uro/Oko ban than this. But yeah, so long Oko!

  11. #22991
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
    Also, can we take snow-covered lands out of our non-Snow decks now? With labe around we had to play them to represent snoko to be playing optimally, but I think that may be behind us now.
    No, the optimal play was to run regular basics so that your opponent thought you were Bad at Maygick.
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    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  12. #22992

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    No, the optimal play was to run regular basics so that your opponent thought you were Bad at Maygick.
    Shuffling your deck, letting it fall to the floor face-down, letting a Sacred Foundry fall out of your sleeve face-up, then saying sorry and picking up your deck and palming the Sacred Foundry back into your sleeve, never to be used again in that match --- legal or illegal?

  13. #22993
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Shuffling your deck, letting it fall to the floor face-down, letting a Sacred Foundry fall out of your sleeve face-up, then saying sorry and picking up your deck and palming the Sacred Foundry back into your sleeve, never to be used again in that match --- legal or illegal?
    Tech is accidentally revealing Stomping Ground, shuffling back up, presenting deck to opponent, then saying "oh no.... is that my Modern deck? I should stop using the same sleeves for all my decks". Opponent scoffs, expecting an easy win. Then you turn 1 Goblin Charbelcher. (there is practically 0 risk to running 1 Stomping Ground over 1 Taiga in Belcher, so you don't give up win% to maximize troll%)

  14. #22994
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Anyway, aren't bans supposed to be the worst thing that can happen to a game? All the rejoicing around here over mediocre three-drops' and alternative-to-thousand-dollar-lands one-drops' getting the axe feels pretty contemptible in all sincerity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  15. #22995
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    In my experience, bans are closer to the best thing that can happen to a game.

    If we want to sort this out, the reason that a ban is needed is the bad thing, but once it's needed, the ban rids us of the problem. It could be likened to a punishment. Going to jail seems like a very bad thing, but the really bad thing was the crime that led to the punishment and for the rest of the world, the criminal being locked away is a good thing. Now I have a forgiving view on humans that commit crimes, depending on the crimes, but that's a different story and not so relevant for this analogy.

  16. #22996

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    After so many fuckups in the last 2 years, this is the biggest thing WOTC has done to improve play patterns, increase meta diversity, and lower power levels. People should sincerely be happy.

  17. #22997

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    After so many fuckups in the last 2 years, this is the biggest thing WOTC has done to improve play patterns, increase meta diversity, and lower power levels. People should sincerely be happy.
    These are the direct results of those fuckups

  18. #22998
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    It could be likened to a punishment. Going to jail seems like a very bad thing, but the really bad thing was the crime that led to the punishment and for the rest of the world, the criminal being locked away is a good thing. Now I have a forgiving view on humans that commit crimes, depending on the crimes, but that's a different story and not so relevant for this analogy.
    Assuming retributive justice is good (your equation of it with the prison system, which was created [for better or, probably, worse] for the sake of rehabilitating criminals, notwithstanding), who's getting punished?

    Players are getting punished, not the people who designed the "problematic" cards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  19. #22999
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Wizards will make design mistakes, it's inevitable, they can't test properly for Legacy, as long as they act swiftly damage is minimised. In my view, the only problem here is that they take too long to act.

    In the analogue with crime, I was actually considering Oko to be the criminal, being out in the society (=format) committing crimes and being locked up with the ban announcement. It could be interpreted that WotC were committing the crime when designing the cards, I didn't intend that as the analogue though because I think, like described just above, that Wizards actually don't intend to design for older formats, not to 100%, they probably try to but can't justify spending resources on it that would be needed, so I don't really blame wizards for that personally. Edit: that analogue needed some further tweaking. It's ironic because I'm just reading about how to use analogues for scientific purposes.

  20. #23000
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    basics are back baby! glad astrolabe is gone and contamination is playable again!

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