View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #23041

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Probe is mana positive guys. See also the delve and threshold mechanics. Say it with me: cantripping Lotus Petal. All you need to know about Probe.
    Gitaxian Probe isn’t much like a cantripping Lotus Petal. You’re simultaneously ignoring the information-gaining power of GP and overstating its mana-generating power. GP is mana positive if you plan to cast Gurmag Angler, but it doesn’t truly net you a Legacy-mana; it nets you one-seventh of a 5/5 creature. One mana is far better than that in Legacy. Lotus Petal gives you a Legacy-mana. Do you crack a Lotus Petal to cast Jedit Ojanen?

  2. #23042
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Where exactly do you think that card Gitaxian Probe drew ended up - turns out it goes to the same place as a Fetchland, and also the same place the card Uro draws ends up.

    When it turned into a Treasure Cuise, the mana exploit was too much. When it turned into a DTT, that was too much. When a sideboard hate-immune deck [which also inflamed first player advantage] was the only one left to capitalize on the mana exploit, that was too much. Probe was always going to be an engine waiting to hijack Fetchlands. At all points Probe should have been banned before DTT was.

  3. #23043
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Where exactly do you think that card Gitaxian Probe drew ended up - turns out it goes to the same place as a Fetchland, and also the same place the card Uro draws ends up.

    When it turned into a Treasure Cuise, the mana exploit was too much. When it turned into a DTT, that was too much. When a sideboard hate-immune deck [which also inflamed first player advantage] was the only one left to capitalize on the mana exploit, that was too much. Probe was always going to be an engine waiting to hijack Fetchlands. At all points Probe should have been banned before DTT was.
    I see where you're coming from, but I think you're both underestimating the comparative power of Treasure Cruise and Dig [EDIT: Those are better bans] and overestimating how good it is to get a 5/5 a turn or two early. Worth pointing out that sol-lands let you curve into a 4/4 that Thoughtseizes on turn 2. Information, ahead-of-curve p/t, an expenditure of only renewable mana (contrast with Delve), and little dedicated support required.

    That's not an argument for a ban; I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of crazier stuff you can do than cheat on your metrics one time for 2 life.
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  4. #23044

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    None of those things are FREE, though.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  5. #23045

    Re: All B/R update speculation.


  6. #23046

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post

    Old cards, lol.
    "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

    RIP Ari

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  7. #23047

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I can't wait for Legacy to be taken over by Lurrus 3.0

  8. #23048

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of crazier stuff you can do than cheat on your metrics one time for 2 life.
    Just chiming in again to say Ron is still right, and Gitaxian Probe is fine.

    Forest players just mad people see they have nothing and kill them, instead of getting to pretend they had something.

  9. #23049

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Just chiming in again to say Ron is still right, and Gitaxian Probe is fine.

    Forest players just mad people see they have nothing and kill them, instead of getting to pretend they had something.
    I own literally all the blue cards in my favorite pimp and continue to disagree. Who is a "forest player" and wtf is that even, a new kind of bigotry?

    Not that your opinion or his matters, banned is banned and most of us couldn't be more pleased with the decision.

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  10. #23050
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Who is a "forest player" and wtf is that even, a new kind of bigotry?
    Elves, Maverick, Lands...

    I read the comment as humorous, not antagonistic. But ymmv.

  11. #23051

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Not that your opinion or his matters, banned is banned
    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Unfortunately true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    most of us couldn't be more pleased with the decision.
    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    This is really the only argument for banning probe that is convincing. It's not bannable on merits, but if everyone hates it but me and Ron, probably worth banning it.

    The "forest players" was just tongue in cheek (though I think there's some truth to it).

  12. #23052

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Also sprite dragon, YP, and well... Magecraft.

    For real I would play a reverse Probe where I have to reveal my hand!
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  13. #23053

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    This is really the only argument for banning probe that is convincing. It's not bannable on merits, but if everyone hates it but me and Ron, probably worth banning it.

    The "forest players" was just tongue in cheek (though I think there's some truth to it).
    I wasn't making an argument, I was saying that based on the merits of our arguments and experiences, this is the general feeling of it - happiness for the correct outcome.

    I, too, was joking. Somehow my jokes never read well in forum banter. I must be bad at it.



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  14. #23054
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Expressive Iteration is a dumb card that will be banned
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  15. #23055

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Expressive Iteration is a dumb card that will be banned
    Strong bet against.

  16. #23056
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Expressive Iteration is a dumb card that will be banned
    I'd put money on that one and give you 2-to-1 odds.
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  17. #23057

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Honestly, Urza's Saga seems more likely. It's got that "we didn't test for eternal formats" vibe.

  18. #23058
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Honestly, Urza's Saga seems more likely. It's got that "we didn't test for eternal formats" vibe.
    It's good, but doesn't strike as ban-worthy good.

    Chances are the next bans in the far future are going be either

    a) Uro
    b) a new broken combo piece
    c) something the current flavor of Delver is abusing because WotC can't be assed to dismantle its core, repeating history over and over again.

  19. #23059

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    It's good, but doesn't strike as ban-worthy good.
    ...
    I may be overestimating it, but it seems very much like the sort of card that they ought to ban, but won't. I imagine that it will get restricted in vintage fairly quickly since it can find mana crypt, sol ring, mana vault, and black lotus.

  20. #23060

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I may be overestimating it, but it seems very much like the sort of card that they ought to ban, but won't. I imagine that it will get restricted in vintage fairly quickly since it can find mana crypt, sol ring, mana vault, and black lotus.
    The problem is that if you want to play a nonbasic Wastes that transforms into Sol Ring you can instead just put Tomb/City in your deck and skip the delay
    Don't get me wrong I think the card is good and will find a home somewhere but I think the suspend 2 hurts it a lot, especially in vintage

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