View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1168 of 1169 FirstFirst ... 168668106811181158116411651166116711681169 LastLast
Results 23,341 to 23,360 of 23374

Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #23341

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The ones complaining most about Iteration refuse to adapt
    Turn on your monitor.

  2. #23342
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,336

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Turn on your monitor.
    Oh I'll spot you Lurrus and DHA as being reasonable bans despite being absolute meme against what I play...but a 2 mana Diviniation that requires sorcery speed and a 3rd land drop open? Cmon now.

    Like you know exactly what happens with DRC and Predict the second that ban happens. Wake up, it's Daze - it's always been Daze.

  3. #23343

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Or maybe, just maybe, one of the best card selection spells of all time that synergizes with nearly every other card selection spell ever, the one that was banned in one non-rotating format, and sees heavy play in another might be, and hear me out, good?

    Also it's brainstorm+fetches but you're not ready to have that conversation yet.

  4. #23344
    (' ' '\( 0 ,o)/''')
    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2004
    Location

    Northern Virginia
    Posts

    6,539

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The real problem with the format is just fetchlands. It was the problem with Top, with DRS, with the delve spells, with Survival, it’s the problem with Brainstorm and Murktide. At least 50% of Legacy’s problems come down to the manabase doing things the game wasn’t designed for manabases to do, like easily enable 3-4 color decks that can ignore Blood Moon while filling the yard and giving free shuffles.

    Although even with fetches banned Iteration would still be too good. There’s been a lot of evidence for a long time that a two mana draw two would be a really powerful card in Legacy, but Iteration is really better than that even.
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
    And found I was for endurance made

  5. #23345
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    The woods again
    Posts

    1,094

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    AND AWAAAaAaAaAaAaAAAAAY WE GOOOOOO!
    All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
    PM me if you want to contribute!
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  6. #23346

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    AND AWAAAaAaAaAaAaAAAAAY WE GOOOOOO!
    Ban this too.

  7. #23347
    Member
    KobeBryan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Arcadia, CA
    Posts

    2,220

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    What's banned. I can't find the updated annoucnment.

  8. #23348

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    What's banned. I can't find the updated annoucnment.
    There's an annoucment?

  9. #23349
    Member
    KobeBryan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Arcadia, CA
    Posts

    2,220

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    There's an annoucment?
    I don't know...u guys kept talking about cards being banned like expressive iteration

  10. #23350

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The real problem with the format is just fetchlands. It was the problem with Top, with DRS, with the delve spells, with Survival, it’s the problem with Brainstorm and Murktide. At least 50% of Legacy’s problems come down to the manabase doing things the game wasn’t designed for manabases to do, like easily enable 3-4 color decks that can ignore Blood Moon while filling the yard and giving free shuffles..
    I agree with this, but let's be honest here, too: Magic as a game started in 1993. And now, it's 2022 - so that's 29 years the game has existed. Of those 29 years, fetches have existed for 26 - because they were first mechanically of-sorts printed in Mirage (and they were used in old "Type II" decks, especially old Necro decks splashing red - adding consistency). Onslaught fetches have existed for 20 of those years and we know the story from there.

    This means that fetches have existed and have been used in some capacity in deckbuilding for almost 90% of Magic's history. And while the card pool has certainly gotten better over the years and more dynamic, I do agree the fundamental idea behind fetches is in my opinion, anyhow - a design mistake - but in hindsight. Because realistically, there's no way in 1996 or 2002 they thought they would print a card like DRS or Murktide - especially after the Urza's Saga block debacle. That being said, cards like Brainstorm even in a time like 1996 got better because of fetches, albeit slightly until 2002.

    But here's the kicker: all of these cards have just gotten "better" over time because they're robustly boosted by what fetches do. This includes new cards printed like you said that interact with them way too well. So, you have one of two choices here:

    1. Ban fetches entirely and leave newer cards alone unless they deserve to be banned because they're just way overpowered.
    2. Ban newer cards that are just way too powerful because fetches exist, but leave fetches alone.

    I mean, that's it, right?

  11. #23351
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,089

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I agree. Fetches are too integral a part of Magic history to suddenly ban now, even if they get increasingly degenerate with power creep and new abilities. Brainstorm + fetch + dual is nostalgic to anyone who played Type 1, Type 1.5 or Extended back then. It was a defining feature of being a blue mage. I think they even altered the rotation schedule of Extended to allow fetch+dual to stay in the format longer. When Ravnica finally rotated out of Extended, Extended died and they replaced it with non-rotating Modern, where they drew the line to keep fetch+shock in the format. The interaction was too popular to ditch. Eternal formats are supposed to be a place for players to still enjoy your old cards and old interactions, instead of conforming to the new design direction.

    WOTC has provided both options by creating separate formats:
    1) Historic & Pioneer. Enjoy new cards without fetches breaking them.
    2) Modern, and to a lesser extent Legacy & Vintage. Enjoy old interactions. Ban new cards that become degenerate with them.

    Players are free to choose a format based on what they want more.

    tl;dr: Don't ban fetchlands. Ban Island Fish Jasconius

  12. #23352

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    No. Ban the card that's breaking everything. Come on already.
    Enough.

  13. #23353

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    WOTC has provided both options by creating separate formats:
    1) Historic & Pioneer. Enjoy new cards without fetches breaking them.
    2) Modern, and to a lesser extent Legacy & Vintage. Enjoy old interactions. Ban new cards that become degenerate with them.

    Players are free to choose a format based on what they want more.

    tl;dr: Don't ban fetchlands. Ban Island Fish Jasconius
    Hit the nail on the head. This is all that needs to be said on the subject. Don't like fetches? They already banned them in Pioneer. Have at it.

  14. #23354

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Hit the nail on the head. This is all that needs to be said on the subject. Don't like fetches? They already banned them in Pioneer. Have at it.
    Nah. You go play vintage.
    I mean, that's the extant format where they never fix anything because that's how it's always been, right?

  15. #23355

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    In other news: nothing

  16. #23356

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    In other news: nothing
    We knew this

  17. #23357
    (' ' '\( 0 ,o)/''')
    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2004
    Location

    Northern Virginia
    Posts

    6,539

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Hit the nail on the head. This is all that needs to be said on the subject. Don't like fetches? They already banned them in Pioneer. Have at it.
    This is a dumb argument because you can just say it about anything.

    Also, it's incredibly silly to act like the Mirage fetchlands count come the fuck on
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
    And found I was for endurance made

  18. #23358

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This is a dumb argument because you can just say it about anything.
    I can't understand what you wrote here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Also, it's incredibly silly to act like the Mirage fetchlands count come the fuck on
    Who said anything about Mirage fetches?

  19. #23359

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Who said anything about Mirage fetches?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    I agree with this, but let's be honest here, too: Magic as a game started in 1993. And now, it's 2022 - so that's 29 years the game has existed. Of those 29 years, fetches have existed for 26 - because they were first mechanically of-sorts printed in Mirage (and they were used in old "Type II" decks, especially old Necro decks splashing red - adding consistency). Onslaught fetches have existed for 20 of those years and we know the story from there.

  20. #23360

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    When you make arguments to "score points" rather than have a genuine debate, it is rather pointless isn't it? No one is talking about Mirage fetches other than to say they are the historical starting point for the concept of a fetch land.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)