View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22321
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Chalice of the Void continues to ruin people's day."
    or just ban brainstorm and all the "offenders" can stop being scapegoats...

  2. #22322

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    or just ban brainstorm and all the "offenders" can stop being scapegoats...
    The issue with banning Brainstorm is that you really have to ban quite a few other cards at the same time.

  3. #22323
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Just ban the top ten most currently played cards of each set and lets see where we end up with
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  4. #22324
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    The issue with banning Brainstorm is that you really have to ban quite a few other cards at the same time.
    really?!? what would you ban after you banned brainstorm? you could start unbanning...

    it's always brainstorm that's the glue for the current "offenders" list.

  5. #22325

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I personally think Astrolabe is fine. I do, however, feel that Oko, Veil and Breach (change of tune) should go. It is funny though keeping a hand of three cantrips, a SCSwamp, a SCForest and an Astrolabe. But I don’t mind that, because even though it makes things hyper-efficient, it’s nice for a change that Legacy can shift more towards basic land utilization so that you don’t need to worry about being Wastelanded or Blood Mooned out of a game.

    What I don’t like are the Oko decks that are using it. Green becomes meh without Oko, so if it were banned, you’d see these decks recalibrate and wouldn’t have to worry about Astrolabe beatdown. I just see so many other broken cards that exist in Legacy, that it’s hard to sell me on a mana rock that cantrips that requires a fast axe. Come on.

  6. #22326

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    really?!? what would you ban after you banned brainstorm? you could start unbanning...

    it's always brainstorm that's the glue for the current "offenders" list.
    Ponder probably goes with it, and some of the fast mana for combo could go as well under the concept that making non-blue more competitive with combo is the best way to add color diversity. (I assume that is your motivation for wanting Brainstorm gone.)

  7. #22327

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Just ban the top ten most currently played cards of each set and lets see where we end up with
    Poor basic lands get banned so many times.

  8. #22328
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Poor basic lands get banned so many times.
    Snow-Covered Island should get the ban. No land should be able to cast both Brainstorm AND Astrolabe AND not die to Wasteland.

  9. #22329

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Yes, ban Brainstorm and ban everything else so we can finally play Magic: the Jabbering like Richard Garfield intended.

  10. #22330

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Just ban the top ten most currently played cards of each set and lets see where we end up with
    Pauper.

  11. #22331

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    Pauper.
    Probably closer to Penny Dreadful, honestly, than Pauper.

  12. #22332
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Yes, ban Brainstorm and ban everything else so we can finally play Magic: the Jabbering like Richard Garfield intended.
    i don't understand this comment unless you're a shill for brainstorm.
    it's just brainstorm, no other card needs to be banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I assume that is your motivation for wanting Brainstorm gone
    it's just brainstorm, it's no other card; ponder is fine.

    all the other "offenders" that have been banned in the last X years were banned because of brainstorm.
    probe, DRS, DTT, TC, SDT, W&6. what could you unban? manadrain? mindtwist? earthcraft?

  13. #22333

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i don't understand this comment unless you're a shill for brainstorm.
    it's just brainstorm, no other card needs to be banned.
    Yeah, you got me. I'm a shill for Brainstorm

    Oh how did you discover my diabolical scheme? Years of planning, wasted!

  14. #22334

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i don't understand this comment unless you're a shill for brainstorm.
    it's just brainstorm, no other card needs to be banned.



    it's just brainstorm, it's no other card; ponder is fine.
    The reality is that Brainstorm and Ponder are a package deal, because they would be banned at the same time. Banning just Brainstorm would lead to the replacement options of Preordain/Serum Visions/Opt (given that Ponder is effectively in most decks Brainstorm is in), not much really changes because Preordain is still rather good as a cantrip spell, and then you just end up on a crusade against Ponder. May as well just go for the jugular and not waste time when the result is fairly obvious.

    all the other "offenders" that have been banned in the last X years were banned because of brainstorm.
    probe, DRS, DTT, TC, SDT, W&6. what could you unban? manadrain? mindtwist? earthcraft?
    Earthcraft is probably the extent of the potential unbans in that list. Mind Twist probably could be, but there is little benefit to actually unbanning the card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Yeah, you got me. I'm a shill for Brainstorm

    Oh how did you discover my diabolical scheme? Years of planning, wasted!
    You are far better at posting in this thread than I am, it seems.

  15. #22335
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    My predictions for today: Underworld Breach banned in Legacy, a muddled paragraph on keeping an eye on Astrolabe/Oko decks, some gibberish about terrible formats that people don't play very much anymore (Modern, Standard), and likely a Dig Through Time ban in Pioneer. If they don't shake up Modern with an unban that format is doomed to becoming obsolete. It may still become obsolete, even if they unban Twin.

    At this point, it's not about whether Breach is too good it's just a matter of when it will be broken sideways with some new tech. Listening to Bryant Cook on The Dead Format, and I'm paraphrasing here, Breach is almost equivalent to Flash.
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  16. #22336
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    My predictions for today: Underworld Breach banned in Legacy, a muddled paragraph on keeping an eye on Astrolabe/Oko decks, some gibberish about terrible formats that people don't play very much anymore (Modern, Standard), and likely a Dig Through Time ban in Pioneer. If they don't shake up Modern with an unban that format is doomed to becoming obsolete. It may still become obsolete, even if they unban Twin.

    At this point, it's not about whether Breach is too good it's just a matter of when it will be broken sideways with some new tech. Listening to Bryant Cook on The Dead Format, and I'm paraphrasing here, Breach is almost equivalent to Flash.
    Nah, we need the Breach era to last at least as long as the Dig era; it’s important to remind all the fair decks that spells matter every once in a while.

    I mean yeah, they’ll probably ban Breach, but it’s not like you’re doing fair decks any favors so much as consigning them to oblivion compliments of Oko. Once you get past the feels bad losses to Breach, a fair deck should at least recognize how Breach can be hated on by SB cards and the rise of Breach leads to the marginalizing of their worst matchup (Oko).

  17. #22337
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Once you get past the feels bad losses to Breach, a fair deck should at least recognize how Breach can be hated on by SB cards and the rise of Breach leads to the marginalizing of their worst matchup (Oko).
    This last part is underrated. Part of the reason Breach (and TES) are doing so well is they crush Snowko. It's much easier to beat Snowko when you don't have to pass the turn with any creatures, planeswalkers or non-mana artifacts. What are fair decks supposed to do? Without Breach in the meta, players would be a lot angrier at Oko.

    At least Breach encouraged deck brewing and diversity (outside of the main Jeskai build there's Grixis, RUG, 4color, Riddlesmith combo, Emry Stompy, Delver Breach, Snowko Breach, ANT splashing Breach...). Snowko encourages sleeving up the same 50 cards. Breach can also be hated on in so many ways that it encourages layers of interaction, instead of just Elking every permanent and then winnng with more Elks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Listening to Bryant Cook on The Dead Format, and I'm paraphrasing here, Breach is almost equivalent to Flash.
    Bryant's just salty that Jeskai Breach is his worst matchup. Meanwhile he's 5-0ing cues left and right on a rampage with TES, probably claiming Veil of Summer is a fair card.

  18. #22338
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    My predictions for today: Underworld Breach banned in Legacy, a muddled paragraph on keeping an eye on Astrolabe/Oko decks, some gibberish about terrible formats that people don't play very much anymore (Modern, Standard), and likely a Dig Through Time ban in Pioneer. If they don't shake up Modern with an unban that format is doomed to becoming obsolete. It may still become obsolete, even if they unban Twin.

    At this point, it's not about whether Breach is too good it's just a matter of when it will be broken sideways with some new tech. Listening to Bryant Cook on The Dead Format, and I'm paraphrasing here, Breach is almost equivalent to Flash.
    I listened too and Bryant's guess was that it'll get banned in 5-6 months, I'm pretty sure [edit: this was in the Eternal Glory podcast from March 4th actually, but should be a similar view one would think], it seemed like a quick guess though and not a heavily contemplated one. I listened to the Everyday Eternal podcast yesterday and they also seemed to think it will get banned in a while, as I interpreted them, not now. My guess has been it might get banned in 2-3 months. Advocating a ban now seems early. I think it's like with the Karn ban discussion from a year back, I was not one of the people saying it should get banned (everyone who did should probably learn from that example) and while I think Breach seems to motivate it better it is still a bit early. Players are adjusting their decks and learning how to play against it, the deck is still evolving. Maverick won the challenge yesterday, right? That is the most clear proof I can imagine that it is too early to ban the card, the meta is adjusting, the deck is adjusting, everything is adjusting, it seems a bit foolish to ban it now. Not that I have the full picture, I don't, but I also get this impression from all the podcasts I listened to [edit: well, it may be that I remember what I want to hear].

  19. #22339

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Given how Wizards acts historically, I would expect them to ban LED before Breach, because Breach sells packs after all.

  20. #22340
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Given how Wizards acts historically, I would expect them to ban LED before Breach, because Breach sells packs after all.
    If they banned problem cards first, we'd have seen CB banned instead of SDT, Probe banned before DTT, Goyf banned before 2011, and Fetchlands banned before DRS.

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