Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
And thats why it shouldn't be banned.Originally Posted by rxavage
Preaching to the choir as they say.
- They could be a problem in the future. Right now, I feel as thought SnT and Griselbrand are in the same situation as Brainstorm: powerful, but not so much to be banned.
Best play made this weekend: Gilded drake taking Griselbrand, draw 14 cards off your Griselbrand, Burn you out, bro-skie.
-Matt
lol that's fucking hilarious, though I wonder why the player with Griselbrand didn't draw cards to protect his demon from being stolen.
He did, drew into blanks :P Nice Spell Pierce and Misdirection, bro.
-Matt
The RNG gods were not pleased and he was punished for abusing the demon too much.
Sneak Attack decks didn't top 8 because not many players were playing it (as stated in coverage), and due to some of them beating themselves by awful plays. Prime example was one of the matches in video coverage, Sneak Attack vs Maverick player. It was 1:1, and in the 3rd game not only did the Sneak Attack player keep a weak hand - but he also fetched turn 1 Volcanic Island and then played a turn 2 Blood Moon (while his opponent had Noble Hierarch and basic forest in play at that point). He had 2 Scalding Tarns in his hand at that point and locked himself completely out of blue mana for the rest of the game. As a direct result he couldn't play a single cantrip and lost a slow death while just saying "go, go".
Improved version of Yawgmoth's Bargain surely doesn't look like much of a problem when you witness plays like that.
I had to turn off the coverage at that point. It was just awful. I know he couldn't S&T cos of KotR but he should have just kept 'tripping till he had a Sneak Attack!
I don't think that S&T will get the banhammer next time either, but something will come along soon that will be to Show and Tell what Vengevine was to Survival.
"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted." - John Lennon
Yeah, it was painful to watch. Anyway, he could have played S&T quite easily thanks to Blood Moon shutting down Karakas... if only he had fetched a basic Island and went for Blood Moon a turn later.
In the end, its not SNT nor Grizzle what the problem. Its Brainstorm that provides this deck with more consistency than non U decks will have to find the answers.
I made a lot of playtesting against SneakShow with a lot of different decks and answers. In the end, I lost. To Brainstorm.
How cant anybody see, that this cards powerlevel is way above legacys level. Its even restricted in vintage.
Ban it.
So is BWish, LEDS, Ponder, and Gifts. Ban it!!
Blue will always have card filter and draw. It will always have better consistency than non blue decks, always has and always will. Thats just the way it has always been designed as a fundamental attribute of the color blue.
This is so plain simple truth that I have to have it in my signature. Very well said.
That's all they say these days. As menace13 says, if you've got a problem with the way blue as a color is designed, you're almost 20 years late.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
This is a stupid argument because there is no problem with blue filters. There are lots of them. Its just that 1 of them became overpowered with the powercreep and fetchlands over the years. If you dont see the difference between Brainstorm in 1996 and 2012 youre the one that has overslept almost 20 years.
I dont understand why people defend Brainstorm that much?
People on this forum want to ban another card every month and fail to see the real problem.
I know. But sometimes you just need the relieve of fighting retarded arguments with the same kind of thing.
I don't understand why Humphrey hates Brainstorm that much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hardly anybody that takes this format seriously wants to "ban a different card every month". Also, we've already got enough Cassandras crying about Brainstorm. It's getting old.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Im tired of playing blue or the one random non-blue that made it into top8 for a few times. I like a balanced format. This one card is ridiculously overpowered. Nobody is running around and says, "hey lets unban Ancestrall Recall", but Brainstorm works the same or youre not using it correctly.
I cant count the times, where me or my opponent had nothing but Brainstorm and then draws the 3 "oops, I win cards" - Brainstorm into SNT, Grizzle, Force blabla
It makes discard weaker, its wins you games out of nowhere, its a to big edge against non blue
As I said before. Why should Brainstorm stay unbanned? Dont you think its overpowered?
I think the problem with evaluation of Brainstorm is that it doesn't do anything flashy.
Your opponent casted Flash? Bam, you're dead!
Your opponent resolved Mystical Tutor? Ad Nauseam => draw shitton => Bam, you're dead!
Survival of the Fittest? Iona > your deck or 16/12 hasted flying vegetables => Bam, you're dead.
Show and Tell? HUUUGE monster, here and now, right on your head!
Now, Brainstorm? A small manipulation, nohting big and serious and you don't even know how much your opponent actually did with it. And resolved Brainstorm sometimes draws 3 lands, so psychological effect from resolving Brainstorm (either yours or opp's) is nothing near to "broken" cards.
So why would someone want to ban it?
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.
I was told by Aaron Forsythe on twitter that the criteria for bannings is when people stop playing the game. Bannings happen due to disinterest in a format. Having only one deck making Top 8s isn't an issue as long as tournament players want to play that kind of format, so even if a deck is everywhere, that's not criteria for bannings.
Knowing that, it would mean they restricted brainstorm in vintage because the format died, and not the other way around. It looks like we'll have to wait until legacy dies a little for them to do something about it.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
The knowledge of the game mechanics increased over the years. So now you shouldnt evaluate a deck by its broken moves, you should evaluate how often and consistently it can execute it over 8-12 rounds.
There are a lot of "broken" plays and decks, but theyre inconsistent. The myriads of Tier2 decks, that can pull off the first turn kill/lock but often lose to themself. Affinity, MUD, Belcher so on so on.
Also there is the flood/screw phenomenon which also is decreased by brainstorm. A lot more effective than any other library manipulation. Impossible to play 3c 18land with 4wastes configuration without it. And see how much and succesful RUG is played, although it cant pull the broken combomove.
@DrJones: I dont think thats really true. It may be one criteria but not the only one. Nobody stopped playing before Mystical was banned, or Survival was banned.
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