All B/R update speculation.

[Zombie]

He pithing needled LED. Storm player goes off the turn after. Judge had to come over and explain that Needle doesn't do anything vs LED.....so he casts Stifle.

That shouldn't even be possible, right? Not talking illegal target but LED doesn't even use the stack to begin with, no?

[iamajellydonut]

That shouldn't even be possible, right? Not talking illegal target but LED doesn't even use the stack to begin with, no?

That's 100% the joke.

[Blastoderm]

That's 100% the joke.

It wasn't a joke though :P

[iamajellydonut]

It wasn't a joke though :P

I know.

[nevilshute]

Guy finished 9th and missed top-8 on breakers if I recall correctly. This was at a 1500+ gp btw in case that was missed by anybody.

Magic for ya

[ajfennewald]

Guy finished 9th and missed top-8 on breakers if I recall correctly. This was at a 1500+ gp btw in case that was missed by anybody.

Magic for ya

While his command of the rules was clearly not the best he was probably good at the other skills needed to do well in a tournament (i.e. when to mulligan, what to counter, ect)

[Blastoderm]

All this aside, I'm pretty sure the cards safe to come off are Mind Twist and Earthcraft. Earthcraft would fit nicely in Enchantress, making it do what it wants to do faster by letting you untap lands that tap for 3+. Mind Twist can be seen as a "bad hymn to tourach" most of the time but it could serve nicely as hymn 5-8.

Also, I doubt that Survival of the Fittest is as strong as it was... maybe that can come off too.

[Blastoderm]

While his command of the rules was clearly not the best he was probably good at the other skills needed to do well in a tournament (i.e. when to mulligan, what to counter, ect)

Should I cast Delver turn 1 or pass?

[Fox]

All this aside, I'm pretty sure the cards safe to come off are Mind Twist and Earthcraft. Earthcraft would fit nicely in Enchantress, making it do what it wants to do faster by letting you untap lands that tap for 3+.

Earthcraft with the way Magic has been going with token factories [mentor/pyro/twin/bitterblossom/even bridge from below], is not a great idea. The card would have to be errata'd to say "tap an untapped creature card: untap target basic land." Earthcraft has additive issues with Mind Twist [albeit only really in pox] with a fast blossom/earthcraft into twist. While that is a pretty fringe scenario, the now-legal Vise+Stasis+Quirion might be a little too good with an active earthcraft.

[rlesko]

Let me clarify. Most Delver players are mouthbreathing mongoloids who's results are carried by herpderp 3/2 flying for U with free spells (see: SCG circuit) (also see: the 7-0 BUG Delver player who tried to Pithing Needle and Stifle LED in the same game). So yes, I am correct in saying that Storm crushes 70%+ of Delver players. I do agree that Delver in the hands of a good player can be hard though.

Sounds like you're just backtracking off your initial factually incorrect statement, to follow it up with more sweeping, factually incorrect statements. Plus, who the hell talks about match up probabilities assuming the person playing Deck A is bad, and the person playing deck B is good?

What you're currently saying: "There was one BUG Delver player who wasn't familiar with the rules, ergo, 70% of delver players are bad."

[iatee]

All this aside, I'm pretty sure the cards safe to come off are Mind Twist and Earthcraft. Earthcraft would fit nicely in Enchantress, making it do what it wants to do faster by letting you untap lands that tap for 3+. Mind Twist can be seen as a "bad hymn to tourach" most of the time but it could serve nicely as hymn 5-8.

I don't think a strong discard deck is actually fun for anyone or good for the format, 8-rack is a one of the more miserable decks in modern. so even if unbanned mind twist just creates a t1.5 discard deck, it's not a deck that makes legacy more fun or interesting.

[kravkenov]

So, Dig Trough Time os gone. Good News, but I would feel a lot happier if it was Show and Tell.

[Blastoderm]

Sounds like you're just backtracking off your initial factually incorrect statement, to follow it up with more sweeping, factually incorrect statements. Plus, who the hell talks about match up probabilities assuming the person playing Deck A is bad, and the person playing deck B is good?

What you're currently saying: "There was one BUG Delver player who wasn't familiar with the rules, ergo, 70% of delver players are bad."

Delver is the "go-to" deck for people who don't know the format. Why can't we factor this in? I was merely stating that if you show up to a reasonably large tournament you'll face tons of bad Delver players. And as for the BUG player, it's not a matter of not knowing the rules -- it's the fact that he can't read his own cards.

[nedleeds]

I don't think a strong control deck is actually fun for anyone or good for the format, countertop is a one of the more miserable decks in legacy. so even if unbanned mind twist just creates a t1.5 discard deck, it's not a deck that makes legacy more fun or interesting.

I don't think a strong show and telldeck is actually fun for anyone or good for the format, sneak and omni are two of the more miserable decks in legacy. so even if unbanned mind twist just creates a t1.5 discard deck, it's not a deck that makes legacy more fun or interesting.

I don't think a strong turn zero deck is actually fun for anyone or good for the format, belcher is one of the more miserable decks in legacy. so even if unbanned mind twist just creates a t1.5 discard deck, it's not a deck that makes legacy more fun or interesting.

Sometimes you should look at your post and do some simple word substitution to see how inane your statement is.

[Blastoderm]

I don't think a strong discard deck is actually fun for anyone or good for the format, 8-rack is a one of the more miserable decks in modern. so even if unbanned mind twist just creates a t1.5 discard deck, it's not a deck that makes legacy more fun or interesting.

Since when is "fun" a requirement? My turn 1 Belcher meeting a Force of Will isn't fun. Ban Force of Will?

I don't think a strong discard deck is actually fun for anyone ...

I'm pretty sure casting Mind Twist is fun so your argument is flawed anyway.

[iatee]

In fact I do think t1 belcher-style decks should be banned too. Legacy is a great and complex format overall, but nobody shows up to a tournament so they can have 0 to 1 instance of interaction w/ their opponent in the game.

Would you be interested in showing up to a tournament w/ 100% belcher and oops all spells players?

[iatee]

Sometimes you should look at your post and do some simple word substitution to see how inane your statement is.

Control decks and slower combo decks both allow for interesting games and decisions by both players. Mono-discard decks like modern 8 rack don't really, the games don't tend to be complex or interesting. As w/ the belcher example above, I think a good test is 'Would people who play this deck actually have any fun at a tournament where literally everyone was playing their deck?' Tons of control players would love that (given longer rounds) and a sneak and show mirror still allows for a lot of interesting games. But a modern 8-rack tournament would obviously be boring as hell and essentially luck.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Control decks and slower combo decks both allow for interesting games and decisions by both players. Mono-discard decks like modern 8 rack don't really, the games don't tend to be complex or interesting. As w/ the belcher example above, I think a good test is 'Would people who play this deck actually have any fun at a tournament where literally everyone was playing their deck?' Tons of control players would love that (given longer rounds) and a sneak and show mirror still allows for a lot of interesting games. But a modern 8-rack tournament would obviously be boring as hell and essentially luck.

It's so cute when people confuse "strategy I don't like" with "bad luck-based deck".

[Blastoderm]

In fact I do think t1 belcher-style decks should be banned too.

Why? Because it doesn't fit your "fun" criteria?

Legacy is a great and complex format overall, but nobody shows up to a tournament so they can have 0 to 1 instance of interaction w/ their opponent in the game.

I do.

Oh, and attacking with 12 goblins twice can be considered two instances of interaction.

Would you be interested in showing up to a tournament w/ 100% belcher and oops all spells players?

Any tournament with 100% of one deck would not be interesting.

[iatee]

There is a spectrum of interesting. I think most people would rather play in or watch a mono-miracles tournament than watch their opponent play out their hand and either win or lose on turn one. Playing belcher is more like performing some trolly art project than it is like playing magic the gathering.