I can't help but wonder if, with the printing of enemy fetchlands, it's now possible to build a stable(er) manabase for the 5c thresh build the hatfield bros. used at a legacy GP a few years ago.
Something like:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Lorescale Coatl/Vendilion Clique/Flex Slots
3x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Counterbalance
3x Spell Snare
2x Stifle
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Pithing Needle
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Path to Exile
4x Brainstorm
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Polluted Delta
2x Unstable Geyser
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tundra
1x Tropical Island
2x Island
Sideboard
4x Pyroclasm/Firespout
3x Krosan Grip
3x Red Elemental Blast/Pryoblast
2x Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
3x Tormod's Crypt/Yixlid Jailer/GY hate of choice
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EDIT: since everyone is focusing on the stupid decklist anyways, I cleaned it up a little bit and added a sideboard. YRMV. For reference, this is the 5c Thresh list that Alix Hatfield and several others piloted to high level finishes awhile ago. Notice the manabase and compare what the two decks are able to do with it thanks to the presence of enemy fetches now. Contrary to what several people are saying below, good stuff decks actually do have a history of success in Magic. Note the list in the linky. Or the entire archetype of "Rock". /END EDIT.
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That's 18 lands, which is about normal for a thresh deck. Add 4-6 Islands to that list and you've got the manabase of a 5c almost mono-blue control list. I'm just trying to figure out if that will become the default manabase of Legacy now, with an eventual evolution towards a "the deck" style or list of #1 acknowledged best build with other things able to do well against it only by specifically hating on it or by planning to beat the hate decks.
The biggest advantage of a list like this is obviously in the sideboard flexibility it gives you, with the ability to run everything from pyroclasm to ethersworn canonist and tidehollow sculler and krosan grip.
I'm just wondering this because now we're at a point similar to the conditions that originally created "The Deck" with a clear and undisputed #1 at many spell slots.
Best Creature: Tarmogoyf
Best Counterpackage: Force/CB
Best Filtering/Draw: Top/Brainstorm
Best Removal: StP
etc. etc. I'm not complaining about this or anything, I'd just be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this possibility, or whether you think it's just not going to happen due to the concept not being consistent/solid enough.
I would point out that something similar to this happened in Standard a few years ago with the Teferi 5c blue lists enabled by t. expanse and Prismatic Lens, but those were obviously different formats etc. etc.
Last edited by morgan_coke; 09-07-2009 at 02:21 PM.
Forest+Plains+Swamp+Mountain+Daze is a bad idea
Why would you want white and red in Threshold? Burn still doesn't work well with Swords, even all these years later.
EDIT: GoodStuff.deck tends to be bad, despite the individual strength of the cards. Take your deck: you're running Stifle and Daze from Canadian Thresh, but you've got no Wasteland to supplement your land destruction, and Daze and Counterbalance are actively at odds with each other. Lightning Bolt is kind of shitty in a deck that's not fast and disruptive, and it's even shittier as reach when you're sending your opponent's guys farming. A full set of Blasts in the sideboard could be cute, but you're going to get bent over backwards by Stifle or Moon effects keeping you off your rainbow mana base. Not only that, you're running a full domain suite but not even using good domain cards - Tribal Flames is probably much better than Bolt, even given the sorcery speed and extra mana (at least it can almost always blank the life gain from a Swords).
Really, the "let's do it because we can" mentality is cute, but this is just unnecessary. It was perfectly doable already; the reason why no one did it wasn't because of the lack of a gimmicky mana base, but because it didn't do anything for the deck to be in eleventy billion colors.
Definitely; I could see running one two off color basics but more than that is just asking for trouble. Why do you need a swamp? If your lands are getting wasted or you're under a blood moon being able to cast dark confidant is the least of your worries. Speaking of Blood Moon; mountains are less relevant since Blood Moon will give you all of the mountains you'll ever need.Originally Posted by johanessen
It's not that I don't like the deck I just don't like the mana base and if you are running that many colors you need to be running the cards to make it worth it; Lightning Bolt isn't a good enough cause to splash red as color #5. Anyway I'd like to offer more critique but I don't have a lot of extra time right now.
Wasteland + Daze is a bad idea.
Wait...
He still is running 14 Blue sources like Canadian Threshold. It doesn't matter how many non blue lands he has, but how many blue ones he has.
You are wise, young Tommy. Many players fail to make that distinction.
Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.
Indeed, if you look at the fetches, they are all blue. A first turn "island" is a near guarantee.
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
Why would you splash black in a Threshold Deck to play Confidant, when you can just play blue cantrips? I would understand it, if you would splash black for removal reasons, but Swords/PtE should be enough to deal with those. Also if you play Swords/PtE you dont need red to splash burn into the deck.
please don't focus on the decklist, i just took the best thresh cards from every color and threw them together to illustrate the point that its possible to do this now and with a very high degree of consistency. Thats why stp and bolt are both there willy-nilly. Probably better for controlling decks than for aggro control like threshold, but with the way most "control" decks now run tarmogoyf + removal + the good blue counters, the distinction is becoming lost outside of how many lands are run and what supplementary kill conditions/removal are.
There is becoming significantly less incentive to run colors other than blue as your main because it is so easy now to get not significantly disadvantaged by being able to splash the best options from every other color.
And you'd want a basic mountain for sideboard pyroclasm/firespout, not for blood moon. Same with most of the other off color basics.
There's a huge difference between Dark Confidant and cantrips.
Dark Confidant actually nets you extra cards. It is a card which is very synergetic with cantrips and Sensei's Divining Top. That said, Dark Confidant is probably the best card black has to offer.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
The problem here is that, even setting the deck list or Threshold in general aside, GoodStuff.deck isn't GoodDeck.deck.
I know you don't want to do this but if we look at your list versus Canadian Threshold or CounterTop Threshold, the strength of your cards overall is probably slightly better. However, your deck is still weaker because both Canadian and CounterTop Threshold traded away access to all the best cards for a coherent strategy and stronger internal synergy. Having both of those easily trumps raw power; it's why tribal is so playable right now despite every one of the tribal deck's creatures by itself being worse than Tarmogoyf.
Enemy fetches don't really help a five-color deck much, since that deck had access to most relevant fetchland color combinations to begin with and doesn't necessarily want to bend over backwards to have access to basics for its weakest colors. This is also setting aside the fact that the closest you'll get to a Standard-esque 5CC in this format isLandstill, which would really only want the blue-green fetch.
While it IS the correct distinction, it highlights the main reason why I don't play that deck when I already have issues with decks that run 16 lands and still run more cantrips than this (because SDT is an awful way to find land).
Truthfully, you are one Wasteland away from having three sources of green mana, one Wasteland away from having three sources of mana to play your second Pyroclasm or REB...in short, your making yourself MORE vulnerable to Wasteland instead of less vulnerable to it.
While it does follow the lines of the Deck / Keeper builds of the past, the overall power level of the decks in Legacy far outclass the decks that those two were beating back in the day. You either need to pick the color you need the least or be willing to run a land like City of Brass (and then add some duals to help you with Wasteland).
BTW, you do run Back to Basics in that sideboard...right?
WHAT? No, just no.
since people are still obsessing over the list, I edited a cleaned up version of it into the first post, as well as a link the 5c thresh list played by alix hatfield awhile ago which got me thinking about this in the first place.
I'm pretty sure 4c Landstill wouldn't mind being able to run Pyroclasm and Red Blast out of the board if the mana for it worked right, and I'm also fairly certain that they'll start running a basic forest to help with DStompy/moon.dec now that they have a relevant fetch to go get it with.
No, I don't have b2b in the sideboard, but you could run it there if you wanted. (or price of progress if you really felt like it)
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