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Thread: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    17 Forest

    4 Slippery Bogle
    4 Jungle Lion
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Kavu Predator
    4 Silhana Ledgewalker
    3 Scythe Tiger (not sure about this, perhaps 4 Goyfs and just 3 Vines of Vastwood would be better)

    4 Berserk
    4 Invigorate
    4 Rancor
    4 Might of old Krosa
    4 Vines of Vastwood

    17 Lands, 23 Creatures, 20 Pumper. Works quite well at least on MWS and against the goldfish.

    SB would be something like:

    4 Reverent Silence (free, CB proof, kills Enchantress, synergy with Kavu
    Predator)
    4 Mindbreak Trap (just anti combo)
    4 Rushwood Legate (free creatures are good I hear)
    3 Umezawas Jitte (Zoo)

  2. #22
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    If Scythe Tiger had trollshroud and not just Shroud, it would be playable.

    No Skyshroud Elite?

  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    Definitely crossed my mind. The only thing is if you use Bounty as well, that's a lot of card disadvantage, and I think Bounty is better.

    Re: Goyf


    Goyf is your backup plan when the pump tricks fail. It's an easy 4/5.
    Bounty isn't used for long... anyway, fell free to explain your reasons on why it's better then Vine... IMO, I prefer card disadvantage to have creatures hitting better then that for pumps that depends a) on creatures and b) in green cards in your hand.


    On Goyf, I don't think I should run 4-of my backup plan for when the rest of the deck didn't go... but that's a personal issue... Anyways, it's a 4/5 many times indeed, in the mid-late game.


    Well, about Scythe Tiger, i wouldn't run it into a Berserk Stompy -.-
    Hard Shroud doesn't help much

    And Skyshroud Elite is probably the fastest creature of the deck for the format.
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Bounty was awesome when I played 10-land stompy ages ago. Pitch Land Grants and ESGs. Pitch doubles. Pitch unnecessary creatures. It's rarely dead, and it doesn't give your opponent life. It's like a "Force of Arc Lightning" in this deck.

    My version:

    4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
    4 Skyshroud Elite
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Slippery Bogle
    4 Scryb Ranger
    4 Tarmogoyf

    4 Might of Old Krosa
    4 Bounty of the Hunt
    4 Rancor
    4 Berserk
    3 Vines of the Vastwood

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    13 Forest
    Last edited by keys; 09-29-2009 at 03:06 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    I would really like to believe that this deck could be built optimally without splashing (I have a fetish for mono-green decks), but I simply don't buy it. Splashing gives you access to so many better cards, the first of which is Wild Nacatl, which is pretty much far-and-away the best aggressive one-drop ever printed.

    I mean, compare the cat to Skyshroud Elite. It isn't even close, and having guys like Nacatl that have respectable base stats is really important to winning every game that doesn't involve you throwing down triple Berserk on the second turn and falling out of your chair into a seizure brought on by how awesome that was.

    Red also gives you Goblin Guide, which seems very likely to find a home here. It's a great turn-one play for a deck that aims to kill in two or three turns. More importantly, having a cheap guy with haste gives you the capability of utilizing pump spells on any turn, even if you started that turn with an empty board. Not only is this an invaluable tactical weapon, it is also greatly complicates your opponent's decision-making. Tapping out to Wrath your team is no longer a safe play to make.

    One of the big questions I have about this deck is whether Kavu Predator deserves inclusion, or not. I've played Berserk Stompy with Predator, and it is certainly capable of being silly, but a lot of the time it's terrible, instead. Conditional threats are pretty hard to justify, so I think it may be time to cut this guy loose. It isn't as if Invigorate is all that great, anyway, and Skyshroud Cutter is obviously bad.

    I think I do like Woolly Thoctar for this deck. He's expensive, and slow, but ESG makes him a second-turn play, and he can do a ton of damage with or without pump. Along with Tarmogoyf and possibly Predator, Thoctar is one of the few creatures this deck can play that can derive decent use out of an unsupported Berserk (meaning a Berserk without any other pump to go along with it).

    Have any of you considered Double Cleave? I never really see anyone talk about the card, but it's a decent proxy for Berserk in many cases. It's similar to the Flings in the opening post, I suppose.

    Vines of Vastwood seems like a nice addition to this deck, for all of the reasons people have mentioned. I have actually been waiting a long time for an instant-speed Monstrous Growth, and now we have something much better!

    Let's see, here's the list I just typed up:

    //21
    4x Wild Nacatl
    4x Goblin Guide
    4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
    4x Tarmogoyf
    3x Silhana Ledgewalker
    2x Woolly Thoctar

    //17
    4x Rancor
    4x Might of Old Krosa
    4x Vines of Vastwood
    4x Berserk
    1x Double Cleave

    //22
    4x Elvish Spirit Guide

    4x Horizon Canopy
    4x Wooded Foothills
    4x Windswept Heath
    3x Taiga
    2x Savannah
    1x Plateau

    I like Pit-Skulk a lot, since it has both decent stats and a decent ability. I'm a little hesitant on Ledgewalker, because she has horrible stats, but both of her abilities are of course fantastic.

    This list might be too land-light, especially with the loss of Invigorate. The Thoctars and/or the Double Cleave could easily become more lands.

    Horizon Canopy seems as good here as it is in Zoo (better, actually, since there are no Kird Apes or Fireblasts, and green is the main color), so you guys should be playing them. Especially in the mono-green builds. Why on earth wouldn't you?
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  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely View Post
    ...
    Horizon Canopy seems as good here as it is in Zoo (better, actually, since there are no Kird Apes or Fireblasts, and green is the main color), so you guys should be playing them. Especially in the mono-green builds. Why on earth wouldn't you?
    The main reason to stick to mono is because it's more stable. If you play only forest, non-basic hate won't affect you, and thus, wastelands.

    This deck is easily locked by lack of mana, and thus, if you afford to lose a land, and then they trini/chalice you, it's an auto-loss.

    It's much like a personal option. I preffer sticking to monogreen, but I respect your choice on nonbasics.
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

  7. #27

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    To be blunt, I'm having trouble seeing how 3-color Berserk stompy isn't just a bad version of Zoo that has the same weaknesses and less reach. What is there to gain by cutting Lightning Bolt, Price of Progress, etc for Berserk, Rancor, etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Being a 1C 2/1 with an ability isn't enough to make a card good by default. Elvish Archer is to First Striking as Dark Confidant is to card draw, and Nezumi Graverobber is to robbing graves as Tarmogoyf is to being much much better than a 2/1, but what the fuck does that even mean?

  8. #28

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    God...this deck is metagame-able that it's janky. So many options with so many open spots. Hell, the only cards everyone can agree upon are forests and Beserk.

    I think the first thing we should do is compile a list off all the reasonable 1 and 2 drop creatures.

    By the way, Summoning Trap for the SB? We gotta have something better than just Grip against CB decks...
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  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Otter View Post
    To be blunt, I'm having trouble seeing how 3-color Berserk stompy isn't just a bad version of Zoo that has the same weaknesses and less reach. What is there to gain by cutting Lightning Bolt, Price of Progress, etc for Berserk, Rancor, etc?
    This.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pltnmngl View Post
    God...this deck is metagame-able that it's janky. So many options with so many open spots. Hell, the only cards everyone can agree upon are forests and Beserk.

    I think the first thing we should do is compile a list off all the reasonable 1 and 2 drop creatures.

    By the way, Summoning Trap for the SB? We gotta have something better than just Grip against CB decks...
    Actually I'm doing the compilation, and will post it in the front page, as soon as I get the time. If you fell like you could do, post it and I'll add in the first page.

    Everything that is missing in the first page, anyone who fells like to may help.

    To begin with, there are a few other cards other then forest and berserks we can add:

    Kavu Predator
    Invigorate
    Silhana Ledgewalker
    Rancor
    Might of old Krosa

    And some others that are a lot good in every deck, and will do the job:
    Skarrgan pit-skulk
    Jungle Lion
    Skyshroud Elite
    Nettle Sentinel
    Scryb sprites
    Vines of VastWood

    The fact is that we run a lot of 1cc and 2cc creatures, so they are personal taste most likely, and we can discuss them for ours. No problem, if you fell like. But first of all, post their ADVANTAGES AND DISADIVANTAGES, in a list, so that we comprehend your point of view =)
    (EDIT: Posted this fact as "anti-flame note" in the first page =) )


    CB decks isn't supposed to be our worst nightmare: the combo part kind of dies, but the aggro part doesn't, and, we got a lot of stuff against it without mentioning krosan grip, and krosan grip is the best card there is against it also. We can easily combo after a krosan EOT.
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

  11. #31
    Amen, brotha.
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    I suggest you include Slippery Bogle as a fixed spot in the deck.
    Reasoning:
    He is a 1/1 for 1 and has trollshroud. A non-evasive Ledgewalker, so to say.

  12. #32

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pltnmngl View Post
    God...this deck is metagame-able that it's janky. So many options with so many open spots. Hell, the only cards everyone can agree upon are forests and Beserk.

    I think the first thing we should do is compile a list off all the reasonable 1 and 2 drop creatures.
    I believe this deck suffers from the same problems as Pox does, if you look at that thread. There's no real set & rock solid list that people agree on most likely because the deck doesn't really function all that well. It's easily disrupted. Some cards just single handedly shuts down the deck. On top of this it's entirely dependant on the top draw which makes it really inconsistant to boot.
    So when people get home from a tournament they think "Hmm, that didn't go too well. I'll make some adjustments to the deck...".

    Don't get me wrong though. I love Berserk Stompy. It was the first real Legacy deck I collected. :)

    On to something more constructive.
    I've played the deck through many tournaments and the Kavu Predator / Invigorate combo is ... I'm not sure what I think about it.
    I hate, hate, hate having to drop a Kavu Predator without having an Invigorate. Yay. A Grizzly with trample - having to face down my opponent's 4/5 goyf. >_<
    It's awesome when it pans out but ultimately I think this mini combo falls into the "Danger of cool things" category.

    I never tried out Slippery Bogle. He looks very promising as Silhana Ledgewalker is a total bomb. Silhana Ledgewalker is also the reason why I decided to run 1-2 Briar Shield in addition to 4 Rancor. As a 1/1 she's not the fastest clock in the world. ;)

  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    What about cards like Pyroclasm? They hurt this deck a lot dont they?

    I mean most of the drops are 1/1 or 2/2 and trollshroud doesnt even help against Pyroclasm.

    I also think Sylvan Library is worth testing out. We lose a round, but on the other hand it improves our cardquality and helps us making the final blow faster.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gui_Brasil View Post
    The Berserk Stompy
    This is the most usual list, found in Deckcheck, and if I'm not wrong, it was made by César Fernández and made it to the top in "Legacy Open PT Valencia", in 2007, and hasn't change much since then. (Source: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=11584)
    Cesar has a Spanish blog and recently has made some testing with Berserk Stompy again:
    http://launiversidaddelasartesludica...-la-lista.html

    His most recent list:
    Berserk Stompy, por César Fernández

    Maindeck:

    3 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills
    10 Forest
    3 Seal of Strength
    4 Invigorate
    4 Rancor
    4 Berserk
    4 Might of Old Krosa
    4 Slippery Boggle
    4 Tattermunge Maniac
    4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
    4 Skyshroud Elite
    4 Silhana Ledgewalker
    4 Kavu Predator

    Sideboard:

    4 Seeds of Innocence
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Vexing Shusher
    4 Naturalize

    Don't Forget to read the Bonus Track. I translated the spanish part and you can read in English in his blog:

    Durante la penúltima ronda del evento, mi rival llegó como un minuto tarde, y le pusieron un Game Loss. Empezaba rapidito ganando, aunque fuese en los despachos. Se sienta, barajamos rápido y empieza su partida con un doble Careful Study bastante tochos. En mi turno pongo un Bosque y bajo un Skarrgan Pit-skulk. En su turno pone Ichorids y draga hasta la vida. Total que al final del turno yo estoy a 14 vidas y tengo enfrente una armada de más de 10 Zombies 2/2 y se da la siguiente conversación mientras contaba el total zombies.
    During the penultimate round of the event, my opponent came a minute late, and get a Game Loss. He sits down, shuffle quickly and starts his game with a double Careful Study. In my turn and I put a forest and cast a Skarrgan Pit-skulk. In his turn returns two Ichorids and dredge a lot. At end of turn I am at 14 and have an army in front of more than 10 Zombies 2/2 and the following conversation occurs while counting the total zombies.
    http://launiversidaddelasartesludica...-la-lista.html

  15. #35

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    That "bonus track" link made me although I had to dig a bit to find it... Wouldn't a copy/paste be easier??

    I have a real question though: why do people run Seeds of Innocence in the sideboard of this deck? I've even playtested with a similar list on MWS a while ago, and I never understood what match-up it's for. Is it just because of our huge problem with Chalice and Trinisphere?

    And I've also never really liked Kavu Predator, I think Tarmogoyf might be better in his slot, much as I fucking cringe at suggesting people to put Tarmogoyf in their decks... I mean, this deck pretty reliably is going to get a land, an instant, and probably also a creature into the graveyard. Is the trample on Predator really that important? Because the mini-combo is a little too cute, I agree with people who've been saying that.

    One more thing, I think the Sylvan Library suggestion is actually pretty good. It seems like if you decided to up the amount of fetch-lands to like 10 or so, and run 3-4 Sylvan Library, you could almost run the deck like a weird Green variant of suicide black, which actually sounds pretty appealing to me. I mean, I can't help but think that having a way to help dig out Berzerk would be pretty clutch, and you can ignore your life total to a certain extent in exchange for a few extra cards from Library...

    I realize it sounds pretty strange, since I'm literally suggesting that people run more fetch-lands than basics, but I think once you settled on the right number of fetch-lands and the right number of Sylvan Libraries to run, it might actually play pretty smoothly. Has anyone tried this?
    Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak

  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    finally, a Thread for this deck ^^

    Yeah, I played this deck for 2 years now, and now I got Berserks and play Berserk Stompy...

    about the Seeds:

    I was very sceptical about them,too and asked César about them, he answered me the following:

    - It auto-wins Affinity (While pumping Kavu sometimes)
    - It completely destroys White Stax and Dragon Stompy (While pumping Kavu sometimes)
    . It's good versus decks sideboarding Jitte (While pumping Kavu sometimes)
    - It's very good against Welder Reanimator or Welder Survival, killing Sphynx, Platinum, etc... (While pumping Kavu sometimes)

    the thing is that it is very good against one of the worst matchups, why not packing it?

    ...about César's newest list I have to say that he haven't the time to test Nettle Sentinels but we think that he is better than Tattermunge Maniac (I mailed a lot with him)...

    my problem with his list is, that I really really really like ESGs in this deck, (you can play first turn Kavu, or 2 Creatures, or suprise pump, which puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, but nobody mentioned her in this Thread... why???

    I am not a fan of the Fetchlands, because the thinning-effect is not relevant, and it makes you vulnerable to Stifle...

    Land Grant is a bad card, because you don't want to lose against random Force, Thoughtseize, Duress, etc.

    and BotH is not needed with choces like "Berserk, Rancor, MooK, Invigorate" and this new thing out there...

    Imo we need to find the optimal Manabase for this deck, because we know all other slots...

    The good pump (see above) and the good Creatures (in this order imo)

    Ledgewalker
    Bogle
    Kavu
    Pit Skulk
    Nettle
    Elite

    YawG
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
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  17. #37
    Amen, brotha.
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Hm. I totally forgot about ESG. She definitely needs to fit in there.

    Don't cut Kavu. Just don't. He may be a bad card on his own, but his interaction with Invigorate and some of your SB cards make him awesome.

  18. #38

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Might as well post the version I'm currently testing:

    //Lands
    16 Forests

    //Dudes
    4 Skyshroud Elite
    4 Skarrgan Pit Skulk
    4 Slippery Boggle
    4 Jungle Lion
    4 Kavu Predator
    4 Silhana Ledgewalker

    //Pump
    4 Rancor
    4 Might of Old Krosa
    4 Invigorate
    4 Berserk
    4 Vines of the Vastwood

    //SB
    4 Seeds of Innocence
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Vexing Shusher
    3 Reverent Silence


    No risky stuff like fetches or Land Grant. Nice and simple, sticking to the basic plan of "drop green dudes and bash." This isn't to say that I'm not considering solid guys like Vine Dryad, but I've decided that for the sake of testing I want to start over at the very beginning. So for the moment I'm using the easiest creatures and no card-disadvantage other than the pump. Nettle Sentinel is looking pretty sexy though, probably going to be trying him over either the Elite or the Lions.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Being a 1C 2/1 with an ability isn't enough to make a card good by default. Elvish Archer is to First Striking as Dark Confidant is to card draw, and Nezumi Graverobber is to robbing graves as Tarmogoyf is to being much much better than a 2/1, but what the fuck does that even mean?

  19. #39

    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    @Gui_Brasil- I can understand those cards. I'll accept those.

    @Gocho- Thanks for posting that article. I was actually trying to find it to link it to this thread.

    I hope zendikar gives us a trap card that pumps creatures in the later sets.
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  20. #40
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    Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pltnmngl View Post
    @Gui_Brasil- I can understand those cards. I'll accept those.

    @Gocho- Thanks for posting that article. I was actually trying to find it to link it to this thread.

    I hope zendikar gives us a trap card that pumps creatures in the later sets.

    For historical you can find some older post about Berserk Stompy here:
    http://www.magicevolution.com/noticia.php?id=297
    http://launiversidaddelasartesludica...-valencia.html

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