Nettle Sentinel is way better that both Tattermunge Maniac and Jungle Lion (and possibly Skyshroud Elite too).
I found in testing that he isn't a simple 2/2 for 1, he is BETTER.
His "drawback" in this deck helps, in the form of having another guy to block; the obvious situation i'm talking of is when you'll attack with the Sentinel, then play another dude = one more creature to block on the opponent turn.
unquestionable creatures for Berserk Stompy imho
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker (she is better that Slippery Bogle)
questionable creatures
Skyshroud Elite
Slippery Bogle
Tattermunge Maniac (better than Jungle Lion)
Scryb Sprites
Imho the optimal configuration is 17 lands (with fetchlands or not), 19 or 20 pumps spells and 23 or 24 creatures; so you have to choose 7 or 8 creatures you like most from the questionable list above, and the deck is done.
IMO, 17 lands is just too much. 14 are enough, 12 could be okay, too. But 17? We play cheap spells for a reason.
Slippery Bogle is a must-include. Trollshroud is one of our best weapons.
Hmm, I'n not sure..
Maniac's Advantage:
-Can block the turn after it came into play. (When thats relevant, you've already lost)
Lion's Advantage:
-Doesn't need to attack when there is a >0/>2 on the other side of the field.
So, lets take a situation and compare them..
Your opponent has a >0/>2 critter (Say, Tarmogoyf) and you've got a Maniac without any pump in your hand. You'll have to attack, your Goblin dies and you're going to lose. If the Maniac was a Lion instead, you could've past the turn and your opponent could've done two things:
-Hold the Goyf back to block in case you have pump+Berserk.
-Attack with the Goyf.
In the first case you've created a "Goyfstill" with a 2/1 dude. in the second case, you can attack with it.
Maniac > Lion vs Goblins. If you are on the play and play Mania/Lion and the opponent plays Lackey you can't block with the Lion.
If you have a Maniac in your hand without any pump don't play it. You must Mulligan or play another critter. This deck must win in the first 3-5 turns. If you get to topdeck you depend of your luck.
If you have many Goblins in your meta play Maniac. If not, play what you want. They are almost equal.
If u willing to block first turn, then play maniac, but, even against goblin, you shouldn't kill your creatures that way...
I preffer the ability to hold my attack until I can kill the opponent instead of just attack every turn and possibly block in first turn...
One thing is set, it's even Tattermunge or Jungle lion... player's choice here.
Actually it's enough for us... we don't want to be locked... and if you consider, Thresh also run fast things with like 18 lands... I simply works. No flood, no lack. And gives us the possibility of running random 3cc sideboard.
Bogle is a auto-fit if you are willing to combo every game. It's main disadvantage is not being a 2/, and so, slower than Elite, Lion, Nettle, and such... If you intend to play a more Aggro-ish version then a Combo-ish one, then maybe you could replace him, or silhana... Personally, I like Bogle.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
You can´t block with the Maniac either. As far as I know Lackey hasn´t got haste (Thank God for that), and next turn your maniac is tapped. If you're on the draw, however, your opponent only has to wait one turn before attcking with the lackey and he can connect. So I kindof fail to see why Maniac is so much better against Lackey.
Seriously, having a creature that reduces the number of choices is really, realy bad.
Updated main page with some card information, and an up-to-date version of the deck.
Other information, matchup analysis and thechs yet to be done.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Why not run Elvish Spirit Guide?
Nice work, but i think you should change 4 Jungle Lions for 4 Nettle Sentinel; i undestand that Lion vs Maniac can be a personal preference, but the Sentinel is in almost every way better than both Lion and Maniac. As you said too, in this deck is more than 90% of the time a 2/2 for 1 with vigilance.
Mostly because of the card disadvantage. If you keep the mana growing thigh and steady, you will be able to combo turn 3 more easily, with more options at the table. Since you can't combo without creatures, and you most likely won't be able to combo for 20 all the time, you want a growing curve on your creatures for the remaining damage.
Added the options at the page.
Personally, i think:
Jungle lion:
- 2/1 than will most likely always attack when he can, or when you wish to.
Nettle sentinel
- 2/2 that will most likely be a 2/2 with vengeance, but can be locked by out-of-cards
For the combo situation, both do the same, since you will cast green spells, and don't care about creature thoughtness
For the before-combo situation, where you want to do high damage, Nettle will be better if you have spare green cards, usualy permanents, being a 2/2 vigilance, or at least a 2/2.
Jungle will be better if the table is clean on the enemy side, and you don't have loads of spare permanents.
On a after-combo case, Jungle seems better since he doesn't need green cards to be an option.
I preffer Nettle, since I don't want the game to be that long.
EDIT:
- Updated loads of card info @ mainpage.
- Need results, percentage and such, to post @ matchups
Please, don't let the thread die! ^^
Last edited by Gui; 09-29-2009 at 10:00 AM.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
hi there, I like to see a thread about this deck in the source. I would like to share my list with you. I've been playing berserk stompy for 2 years now, and now with VoVW this deck gains a bit more consistency I think. Anyway here's my list:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
10 [B] Forest (3)
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [B] Forest (2)
// Creatures
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [PLC] Kavu Predator
4 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [EVE] Slippery Bogle
3 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
// Spells
4 [B] Berserk
4 [MM] Invigorate
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [ZEN] Vines of Vastwood
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [MI] Seeds of Innocence
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 [ON] Naturalize
I have changed recently the elite slots for sentinels cause as most of you said, it's 90% a 2/2 with vigilance in this deck. Been able to cast an invigorate and block a goyf it's good :)
And then you'll ask why 3 cradle's and selkies. Cradle is crappy if it's the only land in your 1st hand, but otherwise it speeds the deck a lot. Selkie is always useful in matches where you stall and you don't have the spells needed to combo out. The islandwalk part is a nightmare for every blue deck if it sticks. I don't care to play rancor+berserk in selkie cause that means 6 cards, but if you play this in another creature you're left with nothing in hand and in topdeck mode. anyway i encourage you to test it before dismissing it, for me it has proven it's inclussion. Maybe with more and more testing i will cut her, but not now.
Thoughts?
I am a big fan of berserk stompy decks, I made some top4 in the past at my local shop with a RG deck with rancor, berserk, fling and burn. I supose mono green is the way to go, but I would like to make some questions for those who have tested the most recent list:
1- is vines of vastwood a good inclusion? I haven't tested it, it seems good on paper but i don't know if it's as 4 of. Any test confirmation?
2- would be interesting to test a GW deck with qasali pridemage, maybe watchwolf, swords (lifegain is good with predator)? I think it deserves a consideration at least.
thank you
I don't think we can help the combo matchup much even if we dedicated most of the sideboard for that matchup. If there's not a lot of combo in the meta, I'd just ignore it and if there is a lot of combo, Berserk Stompy is the wrong deck to play.
I used to play Rushwood Legates, but I found them to be too weak to be worth the sideboard slot. A vanilla 2/1 just isn't enough in my opinion. I usually only run Vexing Shusher to help against blue. If the meta was very heavily blue, I might also consider Cold-Eyed Selkie. That card is a beast in some matchups.
@Icapica
Well, they are options nevertheless...
Would you give up playing the deck if you thought you meta was too combo-ish? And what about if you don't know your meta? Isn't it easier packing some extra sb and try to win the post-board, and steal some wins with faster combo game 1? Even if your meta has too many combos, every single meta got lots of controls too.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
btw you´re talking about a combo from time to time. cant figure out what you mean with that. does someone mind to explain me?
Well, a Combo is a combination of effects on a chain, in which if it's not broke by some other effects, it wins you the game.
In our case, we combine a creature + pump effects + berserk to deal hard damage.
It's basic knowledge. If you like to know more about it, read the Articles.
EDIT:
Back to the Vines of Vastwood issue, my tests so far are not that awesome...
While Bogle and Silhana do the job, VoV have been too hard to cast with full power.
Even so it has helped once or twice, casted after bolts...
I'm using this config of pumping, without old krosa:
4 zerks
4 rancors
4 invigorate
3 seals
4 VoV's
Why no old krosa? because i wanted the seal to be cast a turn before the combo, since I'm willing to use the extra mana for VoV... And it was just for the test sakes...
Even though, i'm considering using like 2-of VoV, mixed with Krosas and Seals.
Last edited by Gui; 10-02-2009 at 07:38 AM.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
I probably wouldn't give up, but that's just because I can't afford to build another deck at the moment. However, if I could afford that, I'd build another deck and I'd use it instead of stompy if I expected a lot of combo.
I try to keep the stompy sideboard such that I have a decent match against everything but combo.
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