Well, of course, if, for example, 70% of your meta is certainly combo, them probably you should build up a MUC+ 3Sphere or some heavy control like that, and rock it out loud!Originally Posted by Icapica
But most of the cases, even if you see a lot of combos, aggro and control will always be a great part of the meta, with Threshold and Landstill, and now merfolks and such...
Even in a heavly combo meta, i would try to make the best possible sideboard against them, and pray that I never find that many combos...
Every deck option has a badmatch anyways. Our luck is that we are so good against the most played deck in the format.
Anyways, I would like to know about sideboard used by here too...
I use the standard vexing, tormod, naturalize, seeds, and a single Blessing.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
I've been having similar results. My current pump package is:
4 Vines
4 Krosa
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
I want to shoot myself if I ever have two Vines in hand at the same time and they're definitely not easy on your mana in any situation. Running four of them doesn't seem to be practical, though they're certainly useful at times, so I'm not willing to cut them entirely (at least so far). I think that I'll try something like a 2/2 split on them and Seals or possibly 2 Vines, 3 Seal, 3 Krosa.
I've been a big fan of Seals in this deck because you're spending your mana up front saving up for the fatal turn.
Vines seems good in theory, but needs testing.
I know exactly what you mean, however, I'm still torn between the comfort of mono green and the addition of other colors to boost the potential.
Here's a little something I tried a while back:
4 Nacatl
4 Kird Ape (Hello Goblin Guide)
4 Skarrgan Pit Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker(Slippery Bogle wants to be in here somewhere now too)
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Kavu Predator
4 Invigorate
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
The Lightning Bolts have been Fanfriggintastic. They give you that little bit extra reach and allow you to Berserk a dude on turn 2 for 16-18 damage, untap and bolt for the win on turn 3. Goblin Guide is also just what the doctor ordered...in theory. I often found myself wishing for anything decent with haste and Uktabi Drake was the only option before GG. The Drake of course got cut because of its' echo liability.
Mana 18
11 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Elvish Spirit guide
2 Land Grant
Creatures 19
3 Slippery Bogle
4 Skarrgan Pit-Sulk
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Talaria's Battalion
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
Spells 23
4 Berserk
4 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Briar Shield
4 Rancor
4 Might of old Krosa
4 Manamorphose
Talaria's Battalion is an alternative to Goyf and Predator that is often overlooked. 4/3 trample body with no reliance on gy and no need to play spells that just make killing your opponent harder if you don't have a Predator out. Of course the drawback is there, but Bounty of the Hunt has long been deemed playable here and I would argue Manamorphose is also a worthy addition. It effectively makes your deck 56 cards, enables Battalion which is a strong beater, and although ever so slightly boosts your chances of getting the good stuff such as Berserk. Helps Nettle untap too, so you don't have to play crap like Jungle Lion...
Land Grant is underrated imo, because it's a forest that can pitch to Bounty or Dryad if you use her. Using 2 is reasonable, because you don't auto lose to discard or FOW. It's not like you would be totally reliant on it with 16 other mana sources. Also helps enable you to play Battalion. Yeah revealing your hand hurts, but usually I find myself using it two turn when I am about to drop a lot of my hand anyway.
Briar Shield imo is better than Seal of Strength in a deck that uses Bogles and Ledgewalkers. Especially with Ledgewalker it's definitely an all star. The singleton Pendelhaven is optional and could be better as a forest, but is nice with Bogle, Ledgewalker, and sometimes Pit-Sulk.
Another testing I'm working in is using Vine Dryads...
As I told before, it is so multi-functional, and so fast, that it's drawback isn't a problem for me at all...
I like a lot it's forest evasion, it's turn 0 into battlefield, and it's chalice avoidance.
Quite recomended to tests.
This is the core creatures i use when testing it:
4 Vine Dryad
4 Slippery Boble
4 Skarrgan Pit Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Kavu Predator
2 Tarmogoyf
And any other filler to the remaining spots. I run 2 Nettle, since I use 18 Lands, 24 Creatures, 18 Pumps...
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
I don't like how vulnerable it is too spot removal. Not worth the risk imo. Why not Nettle Sentinel? His drawback hardly is a problem. I think he belongs on the list of core creatures to use. Kavu Predator is overrated here, and his only saving grace is his trample. I mean, his other ability can be broken, but is it worth playing Invigorate? I mean invigorate is free and all, but kinda hurts if they swords your dude as they are harder to kill and you are out a creature and a card. Frankly, I am don't think any of the 2cc options are that great, but I think people should give Battalion a try. Evasion and big body. Goyf could turn out to be the best as he always does. He will probably be big enough half the time and rancor + berserk give him evasion.
In other news, Silhana Ledgewalker is a true hero.
IMO the thing about Kavu/Invigorate is that they are both good on their own...
Invigorate is good because... you can use it in combination with Berserk, you can use it for combat tricks [which is like a kill spell (destroy target blocking or blocked creature, opponent gains 3 life)]
Kavu is good without Invigorate, because it has an evasive ability, and it is good against stuff like Kitchen Finks, Wellwishers, etc. by just sitting on the board...
Together they're just super effective, and with Berserk they are just unfair
IMO they are both core of the deck...
about Batallion...
I know it isn't a bad card at all, but you need to play a green spell first (and Land Grant and BotH are BAD cards for that deck), and that is a hard requirement to play her...
I also think thant you don't want to play more cc2 creatures besides Ledgewalker and Kavu
about Vine Dryad
I hate that card in this deck...
It cost's you an other green card, means, it gives you MASSIVE carddisadvantage in a fast deck like this (the main reason why BotH isn't played,and why most people don't play ESG), and it just has 1!!! power... sure, it has Flash and Goyfwalk, but the carddisadvantage for just an 1/3 isn't worth it (even Scryb Sprites are much better IMO)
so far...
YawG
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
:16:- (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
Legendary Creature - Horror
Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
13/13
Hmmm... My results on testing proves it better than this, at minimum, and proves great in some situations...
First of all, power 1 for 0cc and cast in opponents turn is way faster than scryb, or even nettle.
Thoughtness 3 is under-considered by everyone, but a 3/3 rancored dryad turn 1 is always great. As for a 2/2 skarrgan turn 1 because of the single dmg dryad causes.
Goyfwalk is walk against way more than half the format.
Choosing the right card to ditch so that you don't lose too much power in card disadvantage is an art. Quite hard indeed. Requires lot of know-what-to-do against each kind of opponent. The "massive" when there are 2 of it is reduced, since you ditch one to the other.
BotH isn't used because we have 1cc pumps to do same or better than it does. 1cc isn's such a problem to find. Want you to find a 1cc creature with forestwalk, flash, 1/3 and which avoids chalice/cb+top/snare
Anyways, I've found dryad to be great due to it's evasion capabilities (forestwalk and 4cc). It's personal choice, but if you don't fell like testing it... ok then...
QFT.
btw, i use nettle AND dryad. I cut skyshroud elite...
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Those are some good points, but not sure how relevant being good against Finks and Wellwishers is. Also, is the life the opponent gains better than giving up the card you would lose with Bounty of the Hunt? At first blush it seems obvious, but in a deck that wants to kill as soon as possible it could be close. Also generally with Kavu he will be just a 2/2 with trample. I guess that is good enough with all the pump, but it still feels underwhelming. The magic that is Kavu/Invigorate/Berserk is nuts, but how often does that really happen?
@Gui: You convinced me to test Dryad :)
@Gui_Brasil:
...about the don't feel like testing thing... I've played Vine Dryad nearly 1 year in Berserkless Stompy, and I never really liked it...
but yeah, maybe it's just personal choice
YawG
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
:16:
Legendary Creature - Horror
Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
13/13
Here is the "more casual" Stompy list i am running since around 1999 with some mods over the years:
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Vine Dryad
4 Skyshroud Elite
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Tarmogoyf
1 River Boa
4 Gigant growth
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Winter Orb
4 Land Grand
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
9 Forest
4 Taiga
Sideboard is changing pretty often, i am not sure to run a red splash for shusher and gutteral response, pyroblasts or black for extirpates.
Tangle,
This version seems quite playable... I just wouldn't play 4 rogues, and would cut taiga's since guttural and shusher requires only green...
Actually, what I would do to that list:
-4 taiga
-1 Land Grant (don't like to depend on them, but nice backup to Vine and BotH)
+5 Forest
-1 Rogue
+1 Quirion
-4 growth
+4 Might of old Krosa -or- seal of strenght
And find a way to include silhanas and bogle, since they cost less than candies in a corner store and wreck removals.
Seems a lot of mods, but it would yet look a lot like your list...
When i used to run both Vine Dryad and Bounty, and back them up with Land Grant and Elvishs, i just found it hardly consistant... You just HAVE to ditch one for another to get less disadvantage, and i'm not sure if that's good...
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Maybe its just cause of playing stompy since...ever i think ^^ i just know how to settle up my cards to win, i like that stompy doesn't need to mulligan normally and even with bounties dryads and so on the winter orb is needed. I
I thought of cutting the elephants but i am a friend of playsets and since i run tarmogoyf in my stompy i don't need 4 thats true.
The taiga actually are forests, i forgot to change it in the list i copied.
For Gigant Growth i am not completly sure, i always get nostalgic if i see it ^^ normally i would prefer seals.
How you guys feel of playing spoils of the vault+bayou (or other tutors) in the maindeck? as stompy normally is fast enough to win if it can stop 1-2 solutions, so on the earlier days i remember awesome Stompy lists which used Demonic Consultation to find Artifact/Enchantment/Random removal.
That's the truth, indeed. People usually think there's nothing to learn about this deck, but it's not true. Guess that's the same reason I still play Vine Dryad, even in this most up-to-date version.
I like winter orb, but I don't fell like it fits general legacy meta anymore... it's workaround is easy for lots of decks. Anyway, it's a nice card =)
Well, giant growth is such a good all-around card... it's better than krosa in unexpected block situations, and it's always +3, simple as that... And it's better than seal in the "poker" style. Hold it and pretend you don't have it. =)
Also, i like it with Nettle Sentinel to goyf-block A LOT.
I don't fell like the deck needs splash, because i think it already lack manabase consistancy... but it's an option... just need to take some extra special care about it.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
So for Winter Orb its almost another play style faktor, i rather have Problems to control decks like countertop as they have explosives/countertop and those wreck our deck. I also would say landstill is terrible but i had some luck against landstill in the past too. So for those Matchups i throw up the Winter Orb as it slows down blue decks and even if they can handle it, it takes 1-2 turns till they found/played their solutions to it that gives me 1-2 turns to swing around with other stuff, in fact thats why i dont want to remove the dryads.
Sorry for my terrible english gramma =)
SO,
I want to post Matchs in the front page, but i don't want to write bullshits and nonsenses there, so I want to know people's oppinion about our Good and Bad matchs, and also our Even matchs before writing...
Here are a few decks I think we should be worried about, and deserve to have a inner look into:
Tempo Thresh, CB Thresh, ANT, TES, Landstill, Zoo, Merfolks, Goblins, White Stax, Dragon Stompy, Ichorid, Team America, Burn.
What you all consider of being good, bad, and 50-50? Explanations will be always welcome.
I've opinions on my own, but opinions may vary, you know.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Haven't extensively tested all of these, but some quick comments from what I've seen:
Tempo Thresh: Tempo Thresh is hugely metagamed to beat legacy's decks and a lot of their stuff is just horrible against stompy. Stifle is nearly useless, Goose is awful, Spell Snare can only hit our Ledgewalkers/Goyfs/Kavus, and Forcing 1cc dudes is embarrassing. With that said, they can easily blow us out with a quick Goyf backed up by burn. Make sure to play around F/I and Bolt as much as possible, try to resolve Ledgewalkers and Boggles and it's pretty good from there.
CB Thresh: Much worse matchup. Game one you're praying to race them before they assemble Countertop and games two and three you're doing pretty much the same while trying to resolve a Naturalize or Reverent Silence.
ANT/TES: Difficult, our kill is generally a few turns slower than theirs and if they snag your Berserk with Duress, they're almost assured to go off first. Their deck is just better at goldfishing and we don't have any hatebears.
Landstill: Depends how many EEs they are packing and how counter-heavy their draw is. If they kept something like Counterspell, Force, etc they tend to get run over quickly. On the other hand, if they EE our first few plays and then get recurring Factories it can be suck.
Zoo: Their guys are bigger and they have lots of removal in Path/burn, which sucks. However, they have pretty much no answer to us comboing on a Boggle or Ledgewalker, so mulligan aggressively to find them. It's pretty unwinnable unless you do.
Merfolk: Not difficult to flatten them before they can get enough Lords online to put up a defense. Lists packing MD Jitte can be problematic, also watch for Threads of Disloyalty out of the board. Note that Rancor is absolutely nuts here, forces them into all sorts of awful trades. Scryb Ranger is a house too.
Goblins: This matchup is a joke preboard unless they port-lock you very quickly. Otherwise their guys are just too slow and they lack options to prevent you from setting up a combo. Postboard gets a bit worse since they're usually packing Pyrokinesis, Pyroclasm, or Fallout. Try to keep some pump open if possible, if they can stall long enough to get Seige-Gang on the board it gets ugly. Should not be hard to grab the match though.
Ichorid: Not hard for them to fish you game one and then scrape up game 2 or 3 for the round when you don't find a hate piece. It's a lot easier to race them than ANT, since we can board hate, but still bad.
Dragon Stompy: Like all Dragon Stompy matchups, either they draw their stuff and win or they stumble and don't. Seeds is great here.
Stax: Worse than Dragon Stompy, as Magus and Armageddon hit us while Moon effects don't.
Team America: They can randomly win off a Sinkhole, but a lack of Stifle and Waste targets kinda neuters their main gameplan. Main problem is trying to get through Stalkers and Goyfs.
Burn: Goldfish fight, depends on lists.
Aggro Loam: Try to keep pump spells open at all times otherwise Devastating Dreams = scoop phase. They can also Wish for Perish, which is a pain. Oh and maindeck Chalice. Neat. This matchup is pretty awful.
Additional Note: Be careful of anything packing black, always try to play around Perish post-board.
Thank you for sharing!
Well, who's next? xD
As soon as I write about 'em, i post here...
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
As you see on the Testings above....its useless for us to analyse matchups for Stompy as the only plan we can affort is to stomp them before they win/lock us. So i don't care which Matchup i get as my Strategy won't change, maybe there could be some brainstorming about what sideboard options we can choose, but there are not that many cards we should board, i think around 4-6 Artefakt/Enchantment solutions, 4 Graveyard hate, Imo relics. And maybe some irrelevant slots like pithing needles.
Also here is a G/W List i am working on since a half year now but i had not many tournaments here so i didn't want to test "casual" decks there.
Here's the list:
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
3 Quasali Pridemage
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Skyshroud Elite
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Wax/Wayne
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
3 Swords to plowshares
4 Land Grand
4 Aether Vial
3 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
7 Forest
Sideboard:
1 Wax/Wayne
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Choke
2 Reverent Silence
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Quasali Pridemage
3 gaddock teeg
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