I think the rush to play entomb has less to do with the deck being utterly superior and more to do with it being a lot more fun than the alternatives.
After all, as good as Iona is, the Protean Hulk build is considered by a lot of people to be better (win at instant speed, can use Pact of Negation as a second free counter, etc.) but no one plays it: it's less fun than running something huge out there.
I'm pretty sure I saw an Enchantress deck tech from Madrid that ran Karakas and Lignify as Iona protection. Oof.Originally Posted by Eldariel
And regarding the Hulk combo vs. traditional reanimator, I strongly prefer Iona over Hulk. The combo is clunky as hell and drawing multiple parts is miserable. I tried it in a few tournaments, but it didn't work out for me.
Tusk up.
Can I play my Island of Wak Wak with out being laughed at now? Also Karakas and Vednilion Clique is kind of baller IMO, MDing that shit for sure.
No, reaimator is not the best deck, but is a top tier deck. The deck will force individuals to run faerie Macabee instead of Crypt for their boards. Since they are well equipped for the later. And most importantly many other decks recieve major splash damage from the hate people will be packing for reanimator.
Zoo is still the best deck in the format allong with Counterbalance as a close second. reanimator is the new cool kid on the block and he is here to stay. The power level of the deck is very high and is reminiscent of flash to some extent, being both a combo control deck.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
You are talking about its current configuration. We don't know if there's an even better build yet, and the list that won the GP looks frankly suboptimal to me.
I consider the build that Alix and I took 6th and 16th with (respectively) at Richmond to be the best list at the moment. Of all the variations I have played over the last year, this one takes the cake.
Every Zoo list for the most part has a great number of cards in common, the fact that sub-optimal builds can do as well as they do only underscores the power and consistency.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
Legacy has SOOO much effective and easily splashed yard hate, that I doubt Reanimator will dominate. Most of this hate forces Reanimator to open with a counter or (if playing first) a discard spell. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Deck fell off the map again within a few months.
Crypts and Leylines are free and splashed into any deck.
Relics are next on the list, and are a very effective tool.
Random thought of the day: 41 Lands deck rise in popularity to foil Reanimator which has no solution to Glacial Chasm and sometimes Maze of Ith (not really).
I'm not on the bandwagon of banning but saying that GY hate will kill reanimator is just wrong. It's not like dredge where the only way to win is by means of the graveyard; they still have show and tell and access to much better hate for hate then for instance dredge does. People are seriously underestimating the deck.
41 lands isn't nearly as good as you think, for one thing chasm is in no way a foil to reanimator. A Iona naming green makes it irrelevant. Maze is a bigger issue and that can simply be taken care of with inkwell. I've also seen some builds with Gy hate of their own and other cards that hit lands effectively.Legacy has SOOO much effective and easily splashed yard hate, that I doubt Reanimator will dominate. Most of this hate forces Reanimator to open with a counter or (if playing first) a discard spell. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Deck fell off the map again within a few months.
Crypts and Leylines are free and splashed into any deck.
Relics are next on the list, and are a very effective tool.
Random thought of the day: 41 Lands deck rise in popularity to foil Reanimator which has no solution to Glacial Chasm and sometimes Maze of Ith (not really
Running 41 lands in a format hating reanimator is a bad idea. The Gy hate that will be thrown at it will be extensive. Personally I wouldn't want to face that much hate out of the board in every match I play.
And you would have to be out of your mind to play Ichorid right now. Just sayin.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
So basically the generall consens is the following:
1)Reanimator is awesome b/c it can play around gy hate.
People get to know and have to pack gy hatecards like the gy-robbing faerie instead of crypts to be able to fight reanimator effectively.
2)XXXXX
3)Whoever plays dredge right now is outta his mind! <- (huh?)
Please exaggerate this.
You think that people will try to fight reanimator with conventional gy hate and that it will become even more present than it is already (the Hate) which will make the world harder for dredge player? Like there is a "transition phase" or something till people realize that conventional yard hate against reanimator is doo-doo and just then start to play the macabre faeray?
If even gy hate does not work what should anyone do to fight a reanimator player?
Team Legal Actions.
Play a 8/8 trampling kavu predator on your first turn. That's what I did at the GP the three times I won.
Playing a first turn chalice set at 1 didn't work out.
I would say YES, Reanimator is currently the best deck in Legacy. Back in the days, the old Reanimator decks were really sucky and only a few really paid attention to it. Reanimator carried this stigma until last year even after Entomb was unbanned and no skilled pilot is willing to trade their Tier 1 'Goyf' decks to a scrubby Iona and playtest this instead. Without the recent printing of these fatties (Empyrial Archangel, Inkwell Leviathan, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Sphinx of the Steel Wind) Reanimator would have remained suckky the whole time.
SO if the criteria for the BEST deck is 1) Consistency (Brainstorm, Tutors, Fetchlands) 2) Ability to pack disruption (FoW, Daze, Duress, Thoughtseize) 3) Having alternate ways of winning (Entomb/Careful Study, Exhume/Reanimate/Animate Dead/Show and Tell) 4)Having creatures that can win outright, outrace or definitely screw over an opponent (see fast fatties above) and 5) Speed or ability to win very early (Dark Ritual, cheap powerful spells) then this award goes to Reanimator for being the BEST deck in the format.
I'll be waiting to be gunned down once again as some of you may claim that other decks can also fit in my criteria above but I will firmly stand that only Reanimator can do all 5 with astonishing speed, consistency and resiliency in the hands of a Skilled pilot.
Faerie Macabre is the only hate card that can't be dealt with (apart from thoughtseize), and even then it's only a two for one. After that, you board Hurkyls Recall, Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, and still run 8 free counterspells maindeck + 3 Mystical Tutor. That's scary. Ichorid can still do well in the face of the hate, and that deck gets hit much harder by it.
Pithing Needle and Chain of Vapor are 1cc SB Solutions that are played. Yes they can be effective, but considering they also have to draw them, Resolve them, and Protect them in some instances, you really can't see Reanimator as fragile.Crypts and Leylines are free and splashed into any deck.
Relics are next on the list, and are a very effective tool.
My point is really, that no deck is as unfair as Reanimator. Iona says, you can't play magic. Once you've given the deck an inch it's over.
Last edited by troopatroop; 03-07-2010 at 12:50 PM. Reason: typos galore
A hate card you all seem to be ignoring is Coffin Purgue. It's inmune to discard, bounce spells and needs 2 counterspells from the opponent. If you can avoid the show and tell (discard it or counter it), it's the best gy hate against reanimate IMHO.
On the other hand, I agree that reanimate is not that weak to traditional gy hate (it has discard, counters, bouncers and show and tell)
Wizards is just mining an old card game for ideas:Iona says, you can't okay magic. Once you've given the deck an inch it's over.
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p126706.html
not really. But the art looks a lot like my mother though.
In all seriousness.
I think it's mainly just the hype.
Contender yes, maybe even metagame warper but no dominator.
Team Legal Actions.
Macabre can still be Needled and Stifled. Stifle is something I've been considering. It's only downside is that it costs an extra U the turn you want to do fun things.Faerie Macabre is the only hate card that can't be dealt with (apart for thoughtseize), and even then it's only a two for one.
Good catch on Coffin Purge. That card may very well be a gamebreaker in the mirror simply because you can Entomb it and flash it back.
Tusk up.
AFAIK, it means you really *must* ask your opponent permission to play spells. Which really isn't that different from Iona.not really.
Karakas has disappeared from The Internet very recently. People will be happy to have paid $20 for it by the time of the GP. I fully expect it to be the next speculative card.
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